Ep 99 - Searching for Happiness

hi everyone welcome to the psychology in spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion as you may know our program the psychology in spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna deangeles and we're here with Joanna d'angeles to offer safe space to confront compare correlate and expand spiritual Concepts from this psychological lens it is so so good to be here with you J to discuss this quite interesting topic full of uh layers uh when you start thinking about it and the topic is happiness how are you doing hello everyone hello Mercia so good to be here again I'm doing good I'm feeling happy and I'm very happy that we are going to be talking about happiness today awesome awesome and for all of you who are here with us today please note this is an invitation for all of us to deep into this exploration of an interplay between individual psychology Spiritual Development and this idea this pursuit of true happiness so as we begin our conversation Jada let's just maybe start by defining what is true happiness and I'm going to ask you am I correct to say to assume that true happiness is not an external Pursuit but this state of inner peace in alignment with one's higher self and if soada if it is a correct assumption maybe we can spend a few moments talking about this notion that we find in Joanna d' angelist work right and I'm just going to send say a quote that struck me when I was reading which she says happiness is a state of consciousness happiness is a state of consciousness okay and an Inner Harmony that can be achieved by connecting with is the Soul's true purpose so we talk about Consciousness Inner Harmony and purpose what is she trying to teach us J what are your thoughts okay so uh this is a very complex I I think um you know topic because um it doesn't matter how we really define happiness if this is not what people are feeling depending on the level of understanding of spiritual evolvement of each one of us we are going to perceive or to think

sn't matter how we really define happiness if this is not what people are feeling depending on the level of understanding of spiritual evolvement of each one of us we are going to perceive or to think that happiness is something different um I mean if we were to you know ask people now what is happiness for you or what makes you happy we would have so many different response is because it's very much normally just related to what I'm lacking now now uh it can be peace it can be money it can be a new job it can be a new girlfriend boyfriend whatever you know um but uh it's very hard to Define we have this definitions that the highly evolved Spirits bring to us and not only that but also that we learn from from psychologist uh throughout the world for for so many times you know in terms of when they speak about the ego they speak about the self and the ego being representing like you know the infantile side of ourselves where we are you know more connected to uh to to to things and not necessarily diving deep into what Joan DeAngelis talks about here that is our Consciousness and trying to understand what truly we need need we truly need right uh and there is this Chinese proverb that I thought when I was reading all of that and preparing for today to so that we could have this podcast um that it says the following if you want happiness for an hour take a nap if you want happiness for a day go fishing yeah if you want happiness for a year inherit a fortune it's so amazing right what they are saying here I mean even in terms of inheriting a fortune for you to be happy for a year meaning you probably are not going to to to know how to handle that and finally it says if you want happiness for a lifetime help someone else meaning beautiful beautiful living the ego and as the self being a conscious being understanding that true happiness only going to exist when we have uh an an an atmosphere an environment of happiness around us so yes from the P spiritual perspective as an ideal and as

nscious being understanding that true happiness only going to exist when we have uh an an an atmosphere an environment of happiness around us so yes from the P spiritual perspective as an ideal and as angelist tells us we should PS pursue this um this path which is to to to be more in control of ourselves and to pay more attention to uh the lasting things to be able to allow ourselves to be uh each time more directed by the self instead of the ego becoming more conscious of uh uh the actions we are putting out in the world because they are going to there there is going to be reaction for every that we put out there but I mean as a whole I mean if we want to define happiness now from you know uh uh our understanding and point of view it would be very difficult because even according to the age of the person is going to vary and that's right the needs you are going through at the moment your your current situation and uh of course above all that your spiritual understanding and and so it it's hard but I think that one ofel is you know is giving us all the answers it's maybe the answers that she provides to us is not necessarily what we want to hear because many case she says um um very much what you know along the lines of what Buddhism tells us you know the ultimate passions is only ultimate happiness only is achieve it by detaching from all the passions needs and wants of life you know the there is you know this thing that people say as we cannot know for sure that is the socratic way of shopping that's how it uh when you go shopping and like people you know they say I don't know if it's real or not but uh when that happened when he would be strolling along the you know the the the the the roads there of uh you know Greece uh uh where there were stores and all that Socrates would look at those things and say oh my God look at so many things that I don't need I love it I really do right this is this is our life right look at life J look at life we've never been in a day

s would look at those things and say oh my God look at so many things that I don't need I love it I really do right this is this is our life right look at life J look at life we've never been in a day and age with so much technology so many assets that we can have resources so much data information and and yet we can look at it the same way look at all this that I really Don need it right very interesting yeah and there is one one other thing that we have in the Declaration of Independence uh because it the necessity of uh happiness was introduced by Thomas Jefferson you know formally in the Declaration of Independence when it it talks about you know us having the anable rights and some of them being you know life virtue and the pursue of Happiness the pursue yeah so so this leads us to to this idea number one that the definition of Happiness is a relative term right there is no absolute happiness in this stage of spiritual maturity that we all are in and living in a world that is very much material in its Essence so it's it's really important for us not only to understand that Rel relative aspect of our own definition of what it is that makes me happy am I happy now are we all happy now right and and and whenever we say that we kind of pause and reflect and it's very hard for you to say am I happy am I contented do I have joy in my life those are uh peripherally the same connected words but very different concepts but anyways wanted to say here that J that it's important that we all acknowledge that somehow most of us and we're talking about Western world mostly but us that were brought up in the western world we are mostly taught that happiness is achieved through an external say accomplishment or an external uh desire goal or fulfillment of uh of something that we set as a challenge right and um and if we think about it can be oh my child went to an Ivy League school or I got married or I don't know you know examples that come to mind as Milestones to most of our Lives um we were able to

d um and if we think about it can be oh my child went to an Ivy League school or I got married or I don't know you know examples that come to mind as Milestones to most of our Lives um we were able to get the the the the car of our dreams the house of our dreams and so on so forth but can we truly say that we get um a sense of satisfaction when those needs are met and I think you mentioned already that this is very hard but can we talk further about the the whole concept of material elements or desires that are created in us and we go sometimes we spend a lifetime pursuing something only to find that it's not it the proverbial uh this letter that we that we climb professionally speaking right the professional letter letter and we spend the whole life climbing the ladder only to find out that it's on the wrong wall meaning to us here in this talk about psychology and spirituality is that we're climbing the lad but on the wrong wall not spiritual not psychological maturity but on a wall that is mostly and only material in its aspects what else can we talk about there some examples that we can bring to everyone who's here today Jada yeah F first again I I think that we should um you know meditate pner a little bit about the concept okay I appreciate that talk about the concept of Happiness about concept of Love yeah and I do believe that we do not have our happiness and and love as it really represents for higher higher Realms in this world so I think both of them we can have uh like uh you know we're getting there right we working to get there but uh we don't know exactly what happened as this we will Define according to our desires sometimes you see we say oh I'm so happy because I ate this piece of chocolate and it was delicious so or because I had relation relationship or you know sex with someone and and we think that the pleasure the material pleasure the bodily pleas pleasure sensorial right pleasure happiness but but it's not right is a pleasure it is a Joy uh momentaneous joy that yeah

one and and we think that the pleasure the material pleasure the bodily pleas pleasure sensorial right pleasure happiness but but it's not right is a pleasure it is a Joy uh momentaneous joy that yeah perhaps we want to repeat to have the those Sensations but it's not that it's not not without a motive that Jesus quoted The Book of Ecclesiastes when he said happiness is not of this world meaning can we not be happy no but according to the level of EV vment that we we are we still feel uh you know searched like you were saying for happiness in a different address so I think I I remember I used to have that yeah a little piece of wood that was written it's sad to suffer in in in life but U you know to suffer in Paris is better I love it let's us all go to Paris and there suffering is a little different right but I mean it's not a place is not a thing that is going to give us or to deliver to us lasting happiness lasting happiness and and even you know this like I was talking about the concept of love the Greeks Define you know the levels of love in seven different words I don't even know don't ask me to repeat all of them because I don't remember all of them but it's the agapy the feel is and and some others which I think it's great because it's exactly that you know we are getting there in in in in a to become or uh in a condition where we will be able to um each time feel deeper and deeper and and working in the the more in in in the feelings uh there is in this chapter of the book I think the the the the conscious being I'm looking the book now uh where Joanna de angelist talks about uh you know us uh little by little getting this understanding about true what true happiness is and not being connected necessarily to everything working out in your life and a and placing it in a situation where she she she says we are constantly progressing but for us to constantly progress we are going to be uh facing challenges is it's the pro the process of growing you know of being from from

uation where she she she says we are constantly progressing but for us to constantly progress we are going to be uh facing challenges is it's the pro the process of growing you know of being from from being a baby to the toddler to you know a child adolesence uh young age and and so on and and I think we we we have to think about those things and not to place happiness in really IM material things there is this uh once I was researching about this topic and I came about information from the positive psychologist yeah where they they say that they have been asking this Holy Grail questions what actually makes people happy yeah tell me tell me right and they say that money love and health according to their research only affect our level of Happiness by up to 10% interesting very interesting so interesting because they said it doesn't matter so scientifically speak speaking you can you can increase your happiness uh no matter what your life circumstance is if you say I don't have money I don't have love I don't have health but you can be happy you can feel happy 10% is barely nothing and there is a lot of research that they did here it's a bit old but they say that since 1947 the level of happiness has not significantly increased yeah and and and I and I imagine just for clarification that those researches uh whatever they from it's the the the self perceived levels of happiness yeah right which is very it which brings us this this whole Paradox of if we don't know the definition I'm thinking out loud here J if we don't know the definition of Happiness truly is is and not at a surface level but the deepest level of awareness of what is my source of Happiness how can I tell you if you ask me are you happy and you you can say oh I'm healthy right I have a partner that I love very much and I have all the money that I need and yet there's this like you said it's only 10% right I may have everything and still there's this enormous Gap that somehow I am aware of the Gap but not aware of the levels of

the money that I need and yet there's this like you said it's only 10% right I may have everything and still there's this enormous Gap that somehow I am aware of the Gap but not aware of the levels of satisfaction that I should be otherwise right yeah and that that is really deep because uh when we think about that and Jan deangela even comment uh and it's a a very hard comment for us to digest oh how much guilt we have and even when we have all those achievements somehow many of us will feel like uh we do not deserve and we may sabotage uh uh you know our happiness let's say all those things and and that we will impose a rhythm of uh work or a lifestyle uh that we think that can compensate for what I'm um I think I am undeserving but I the best way that we could um we could find out what brings us really happiness is by and this has to has to do with being completely sincere with yourself self assessment and that that sense of um courage and authenticity that uh this this as you said this this transparency this sincerity to look at oneself and and embrace The Good the Bad and the Ugly right all the best parts of me all the not so good and all the really bad ones that I still demonstrate because I'm still an evolving spirit and to be able to look at it and embrace it I am okay despite the fact that uh I am sometimes very impatient or I don't have the discipline that I desire so on so forth so I think it's very important for us to to what you said now uh to be aware of the Trap that guilt brings to us and enslaves US despite the fact that we're doing so much and we're still very unhappy and in in many cases immersed in in in pain because of that guilt don't you think J yeah absolutely and I was going to propose a homework for everyone okay let's do this everyone I'm including myself which is okay truly be mindful right mindful in uh your actions your thoughts uh the events that occur in your life to try to recognize when you really something warms your heart ah love it what is

lf which is okay truly be mindful right mindful in uh your actions your thoughts uh the events that occur in your life to try to recognize when you really something warms your heart ah love it what is going to be right sometimes just by looking at a babe smiling yeah it brings you it's not pleasure it's not Joy it's this you know close uh encounter with uh what happen can truly be so it's like almost like we we find ourselves meeting a spark of light yeah in little moments that can be like you said uh just looking at a baby smile or many other things but those things that gives that spark of of joy of happiness okay what else should we do in this in this home this requires really authenticity on our part like you said before and requires us to be paying attention because you know you may say oh no I felt so happy um because I went out for dinner with my friends was it the dinner the going out the resturant what you what you had uh uh for a minut or was it really you know the relationship of being with friends and laughing and talking about old time a sense of belonging right a sense of belonging to be in that nest of love and affection because it's different or like you know um there is a phrase here uh that I like very much is that is a quote by Elanor Roswell that his say she says that you since you get more joy out of giving to others you should put a good deal of thought into the happiness that you are able to give so and sometimes we will say see that you know little acts of Charity of you know being uh compassionate toward one uh give us a sense a fulfillment of you know some strange feeling to some people and so those are the things that deangeles uh recommends a lot you know it can be just to to go and and listen to music that can put you in a good state of mind or uh a stroll in the park or it doesn't need to be big things as compared to other things that are more related to to just the material aspect of life and we can see as soon as you are promoted in

nd or uh a stroll in the park or it doesn't need to be big things as compared to other things that are more related to to just the material aspect of life and we can see as soon as you are promoted in your job happy for a week and then you start cursing it because you know now there's so much more responsibility and don't think you are getting paid what you deserve and now I'm coveting a different kind of promotion you know it when we are talking about just about material there's going to be enough we are this this kinds of human beings that we still yeah I I I'm reminded of an interesting book this is quite old I read maybe 20 plus years ago called the culture of complaint which is a very interesting concept by the way uh it talks about North America specifically the us as this uh culturally speaking this environment Where We complain right and and it's it's the hypothesis is When We complain it's very interesting here just it pushes to look for ways to get better right but when we complained at the same time we are not exercising the entire uh psychology of attitude that uh that joanah d'angeles has an entire book about it we we are against the sense of satisfaction and and gratitude because you only look at the absence or a sense of scarcity versus a sense of abundance but anyways we are talking a lot about material happiness right and uh we cannot forget about spiritual happiness and I want to say here if you don't mind just s if you shift a little bit our conversation today because if you think about it right if material this material well-being is a component of uh us feeling a sense of stability a sense of our security needs being met our personal and perhaps even spiritual Explorations um this does it mean and this is more for us to to reflect upon does it mean that we need to renounce material Comforts to be able to achieve spiritual fulfillment is this even true uh from the Christian spiritual teachings right and and if we think about it just tuck that into our uh uh the back of our

terial Comforts to be able to achieve spiritual fulfillment is this even true uh from the Christian spiritual teachings right and and if we think about it just tuck that into our uh uh the back of our minds because we confuse right do I need to completely detach myself maybe a little bit of so Socrates in the in the in the Stalls of the market right all the things I don't need but is this what Jesus really wanted from us a complete Detachment or do we want to to say that in an age where there's so much offerings we are trapped by an unquenched desire for more okay talk in the back of our minds because I thought we can also introduce here to everyone this discussion about uh what maso's hierarchy of needs and happiness is all about so for all of you who are here with us who may not remember I know all of us studied it but if you don't remember quite what Abraham aslo uh who he was and what he did he developed this hierarchy of needs which is a concept typical L represented I'm going to make my pyramid with my hands right like a pyramid with the most fundmental needs the basic needs at the very bottom so it's the the larger base and the higher or more complex needs on the at the very top so when maso who created this this model uh discussed relation uh I'm sorry this discussed happiness he argued that all of us Jada can experience true fulfillment and happiness only when their lower level needs are met so that's why I said what we heard from Socrates and then later from Jesus that's stuck in the back of her mind because Mas will now comes in and says dude Jada Marcia everyone out there you can not be happy if you don't have a a place to to to sleep or uh the minimum level of nutrition or nourishment or like clothes Etc so he says you have to to meet those basic needs and only when they're met you able to go in that pyramid go up a level toward the highest which is self actualization this is Mel's language and that highest level of human development so he brings this idea that happiness

met you able to go in that pyramid go up a level toward the highest which is self actualization this is Mel's language and that highest level of human development so he brings this idea that happiness like we mentioned here before is a nuanced you know uh concept it's relative the higher you go the happier you are in the context of our material experience as human beings he J He manlo suggests here that uh yes happiness is closely tied to the idea of fulfillment of your basic needs surviving right but at the same time it's not only surviving that leads you to happiness which I think is a an interesting thought for us to to discuss right if I have food and a shelter and um you know uh uh uh protection and uh a job that's not enough like you said it's maybe 10% so he said you need to have that but also seek for actualizing our potential and that is interesting because now I think we're talking a little bit the language of joanah d' angels right where she she talks about inner peace but also fulfillment addressing some of the areas that you can develop and serve Etc but back to maslo he he says uh happiness is this dual goal of not just avoiding pain and suffering discomfort or even achieving material sucess but balancing those two so that we have stability enough so that we can pursue whatever and that goes to the what you mentioned of of the Constitution of United States right the the inalienable right to pursue happiness so je back to you now can we talk about this ideas and and and I was even thinking because we're uh almost getting to the end let's not forget to to talk about perhaps how that then happiness or concept of true happiness involves overcoming the ego right or not just overcoming but aligning the ego with our spiritual self what can we talk I I put a lot of elements here but can we talk a little bit more about material success spiritual success ego and spiritual self yes sure um I while you were talking I was thinking about um the spirit's book by Alan

f elements here but can we talk a little bit more about material success spiritual success ego and spiritual self yes sure um I while you were talking I was thinking about um the spirit's book by Alan car and there is a a whole session dedicated to trying to understand a happiness um for those who are not familiar with uh this book The Spirits book uh was written by Alan cardic actually he he organized questions uh that were presented to to medians that would be receiving uh replies from Spirits and he would be sending that to so many different medion and different place is and he would be analyzing all of that to see whether they were in tune with each other or not and so that that was the result of this book and the uh the the rise of uh spiritism in the middle of the 19th century in in France is starting with the phenomena that was happening here in the US also mid of uh the 19th century with the the fox sisters uh they were getting in touch with uh with spirits and so one question that cardak posed to the spirits and got the replies from different uh places you you know according to the methodology the scientific methodology that he was uh using to test if spirits and medion from different places without knowing each other would be given you know kind of the same reply and so uh one of the questions question 922 uh It Ends by um Alan cardic saying is there a common St standard of happiness for all and the answer the spirit gave was for material existence it is the possession of all that is necessary so it's perfectly in tune with uh what Mas was explaining that if you have the basic the bare necessities of life how can you think about something else I mean your body will be craving food and and sleep and and uh if we are talking about living under the poverty line here you know is living under the poverty line and unfortunately there there is a huge percentage of people in the world that live in this condition how can they be concerned with something else if their

e you know is living under the poverty line and unfortunately there there is a huge percentage of people in the world that live in this condition how can they be concerned with something else if their struggle is to survive physically survive and I mean go through all that but he says that for the moral life what is happiness it is a good conscience and a faith in the future a faith in the future meaning you have time you have all opportunities you have uh the POS possibilities of uh acquiring you know and go after your your dreams no matter how pip dreams me may look may seem to be for you at the moment so but now a good conscience which is something that I I you know we should ask ourselves was I a good person today can I really put my my hat on my pillow and sleep well tonight so folks this is the second uh homework today yeah tonight when you go to sleep ask yourself those questions I mean and this is a a process of learning right I can I can tell to myself you know yeah I mean most of the day but there was something that if I could rewrite this day perhaps I would have not have done or thought this way right or or I would have changed course and this is why we have you know a new day coming up so that we can do better and in question 933 he says the following that I think is very important the spirits people are usually unhappy because of the importance that they attach to things of this world if they would raise themselves above the narrow narrow circle of the material life and raise their thoughts towards the infinite which is their de Destiny the vicisitudes of human existence would seem Petty and childish like the sadness of a child who suffers the laws of a toy that represented his or her Supreme happiness so if we from you know an outside point we could look really at ourselves and I mean we would see that uh whining child right complaining about something that is so unimportant and sometime like I say we have this ability that we have to lose another exercise which is just focus on

an we would see that uh whining child right complaining about something that is so unimportant and sometime like I say we have this ability that we have to lose another exercise which is just focus on what is negative in our lives yeah it seems that it catches all our attention if there is all our energy yeah energ energy and like you know that black dot in a white uh board right I just see the black dot and everything it doesn't represent even one% of the white board but it's my attention is all there and I I lose and undervalue the 99% of all things good things that are happening because we allow that to become a to envelop Us in this a negative energy sober state of you know of emotion and of course this is destructive a and we we'll always be facing challenges there is always going to be a black dot in our white yeah yeah yeah absolutely absolutely I I really appreciate what you're saying here and wanted to to maybe because I you mentioned and I mentioned and we did not uh really wrap up some of the thoughts Also regarding this alignment between ego and and self right and and it's important for us to to understand that true happiness is is is it it's that sense of balance inner peace is an expression of this balance between our ego which is the personality right the consciousness of our Persona in this life and our spiritual self our spirit that transcends this existence and um when we think about that it's important to perhaps uh also reflect upon the fact that the ego is a mechanism to help us survive in this world and as such is really driven by exactly what you said in uh Alan cardex the spirit's book is telling us not to do right the ego is driven by personal desires attachments and and those are the ephemeral end results of efforts because they're only material and eventually will lead to a sense of frustration and dissatisfaction right and it and I'm thinking you you you you rattled a number of things that we we want to accomplish and to me uh the the thing is so funny just that why but to

se of frustration and dissatisfaction right and it and I'm thinking you you you you rattled a number of things that we we want to accomplish and to me uh the the thing is so funny just that why but to me it's the idea of when we are wanting to buy a new car the car of our dreams and it may have taken five years to get the money blah blah blah and you get it I'm thinking as a as a young adult right it's like your first car brand new and you get in and the smell of leather and you're so happy and truly that happiness dilutes evades within a week right we become now ready full of frustration because now we are pulling ourself into our next desire or object of Desire so it's important for us to to think about it true Happ which is the subject of today's discussion is always about how we can transcend uh the demands of our ego so that we can align with the sacred the Divine that Universal self right so when Alan cardex in the spirit's book talk teach us uh about happiness or unhappiness is it's important for us to to also perhaps think about that uh uh once we recognize the Illusions created by the ego we are able to now that we identify them as ephemeral uh illusory like there's an illusion aspect to it then we can say I am free from all the chains of materialism just like Socrates said I can see all the things I don't need right so Joanna d' Angeles I'm going to stop here just I'd love to hear from you but Joanna d'angeles in a quote about ego she says the ego is a barrier to happiness only by transcending it as I said we can experience the peace and joy of our true nature right when we understand that a lot that is produced by our ego is all an illusion now I can look at myself again you mentioned that earlier J I can look at myself with love with compassion with truth right in transparency and most important with courage to embrace all that I am including all my flow what are your thoughts Jara before we we close today's discussion yeah one thing that I think is very important for us to

and most important with courage to embrace all that I am including all my flow what are your thoughts Jara before we we close today's discussion yeah one thing that I think is very important for us to make clear is that we are not saying that uh this is going to happen overnight and uh we will be able to completely detach from material things even if they are not necessary right uh but the thing is it the whole thing is the process and what we are trying to achieve here very much like when Joanna deangela says is not to completely bury uh the the ego but uh you know to have a balance between the ego and the self there is this Photograph that I saw once that it is written the Key of Life is balance and the it represents it is we are in in a beach some someplace and I don't know away and there is this ball Beach and you know all the colar and all of that and um there is an elephant with just one leg balancing his entire body on top of this little and so the Key of Life is balance uhuh I mean if sometimes you know an image can strike us so so well right and this the image of this elephant balancing itself in a small little ball it was uh amazing and something that always stayed here with me and I I think this is what we are trying to achieve here uh this is a pathway to happiness and there is one quote from by Abraham Lincoln that he says that most people are as happy as they make up their minds to be so we are in control yeah so let us make up our minds in the sense of let me be happy with what I already have with I mean okay it can be bringing me more more joy more pleasure in life of the certain things okay but just as as long as you remember that in spite of Desiring them you don't need them and you don't need that to survive and you don't need that to live a happy life so I think that this is one of the process uh you know this of you know of going into this path gradually it's uh knowing that not not nothing that is material is going to follow with us when it's time for us to

that this is one of the process uh you know this of you know of going into this path gradually it's uh knowing that not not nothing that is material is going to follow with us when it's time for us to say our see you soon yes yes yes and of course I'm a reincarnationist and I'm going to say see you soon yeaha baby yes I love it I love it yeah like Benjamin Franklin wrote in his Abit right that is he's going to be back in a better version guilded uh writings and Etc so yeah so let's think about it it's a transition process but as long as we we try to do those exercises of you know paying attention be mindful what made you truly feel uh this warm sensation in your day today uh and then try to replicate more occasions where you can have more experiences of this kind of nature and and and and I think little by little we will be transitioning to a much more balance and healthier life and lifestyle and in this way we can say that we are going to be approaching uh you know what uh happiness truly mean right love it I love it we are at time unfortunately so I want to say that uh uh for all of you who are here with us we thank you thank you for being here if this is the first time you are here listening to this program please remember as I mentioned earlier the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna d'angeles and we hope that you're able to make some connections maybe expand some ideas some spirituality Concepts and really just oppose them from this psychological lens we want to take a moment to also thank our sponsors man Cino United States Spirits Federation the international Spirit Council and Amy Brazil Amy Brazil is the Brazilian arm of the medical spiritist association hope you enjoyed our discussion today and hope to see you next time bye everyone