Ep 80 - Solitude and Loneliness

hello everyone welcome to the psychology in spirituality AB bridge to Better Life discussion I'm your host Merc and with me are Dr Anaya and J corn go it is so good always so good to have you here so that together we can discuss or break down this really important Concepts right and and I'm here to talk about the concept of solitude but also the concept of loneliness some of the questions that come to my mind are what's the definition of solitude what are some emotional impacts how do we differently uh suffer from either one what are some of the social aspects are there any health impacts before we start a conversation in Earnest I would like to thank all of you you who are here today listening to our podcast and if this is the first time you're joining us please note we uh our program is a weekly talk based on the works by Joanna deangeles and uh the program is sponsored by T Cino the United States Spirits Federation the international Spirits Council and Amy Brazil but I'm here with you again right after um thanking our sponsors and wanted to to bring to our attention here the importance how how really critical it is for us to understand those Concepts because loneliness is indeed a universal human experience as Joanna deangel says right she mentions this feeling as hunger or thirst and I was just thinking about it what is it though it's a natural feeling it is a signal that something is missing in from our lives in this case what's missing is something so important human connection we all experience loneliness but if you think about it some of us don't experience it well right there are issues including acute or chronic loneliness and uh there are also very specific um uh groups of of people that are more vulnerable than others like elderly or uh the marginalized Community Etc and I just wanted to say before I I ask just and an to speak about it that there is this project that was created in 2015 here in the US it's called project unlonely and it highlights exactly the

Etc and I just wanted to say before I I ask just and an to speak about it that there is this project that was created in 2015 here in the US it's called project unlonely and it highlights exactly the health risks associated with loneliness and social isolation so as you can see this is something that is really important for us to talk about Joanna the Angels calls lumus the cruel Spectre from the landscape of fear and I thought to myself my goodness this is really important let's flip it a little bit to uh not so somber discussion when we think about ber Brown the American researcher and Professor an amazing Storyteller because she addresses Solitude when she states that solitude is a place it's a place we choose loneliness is a feeling it's a feeling we often have when we think we should be with other people so let's talk a little bit about it I was thinking about usual s maybe you can start talking about the difference between what is loneliness what is Solitude how can we better understand those two concepts so hi everyone hi mer really great to be here again and and this is such a wonderful topic and just by you mentioning now one of the the quotes by Joanna d'angeles relating loneliness to fear um you see it's something came to my mind because it it's so amazing because many times we hide ourselves for fear of something and we try to hide from the world uh with a fear of being discovered this discovered in our inner emotions and we don't want people to see how we are and and this is it could be one of the reasons of course that it would lead us to less but as you you explain very well it's very important for us to differentiate L of solitude they are not the same thing maybe it means you seeing a person by oneself or more in quiet or even in isolation but the emotional charge are very different yes so the emotional charge that we are talking about Solitude normally comes from a very um uh positive way because it can lead us to those feelings of Peace Clarity and and really trying to get to

t yes so the emotional charge that we are talking about Solitude normally comes from a very um uh positive way because it can lead us to those feelings of Peace Clarity and and really trying to get to know ourselves whereas when we talk about the emotional charge of loneliness most of the time they they are associated with something negative like the idea that somehow I do not belong to the world or I cannot fit in any of the groups that I I try to have any kind of relationship or you know it can be out as a result of shyness as well but uh in this case is also unhealthy because if you let the your shinness be so much in the way as you not to be looking for healthy relationships of course you are going to be ending feeling this kind of loneliness so H um one we would say is by choice so Solitude is by choice I wanted to you know to enjoy moments uh that I will be just me and myself right thinking maybe not even doing anything or meditating or just listening to a music just feeling myself which I have to admit has been quite difficult for us living in the 21st century because all the time the the the phone is buzzing right yeah and prevents us to have this one onone with ourselves where we in loneliness it is not by choice necessarily um It Is by some kind of deficiency whether because we have this low self-esteem where whether because you know we create this image that we do not belong and with that we we kind of contribute to impair any kind of relationship we might have or maybe we are too needy and we do have relationships good ones but it's never enough there is an emptiness within ourselves that somehow we don't feel that can be fulfilled but I will pass on to I know because I think in this field she is she's the EXP right and what what are your thoughts do you do you want to maybe bring the idea that loneliness can be so acute that can lead the feelings of loneliness right can be so acute that it can lead to um some sort of illness or that requires maybe uh moments for healing um what are

dea that loneliness can be so acute that can lead the feelings of loneliness right can be so acute that it can lead to um some sort of illness or that requires maybe uh moments for healing um what are your thoughts on that as well yes first of all hello everyone so it's great to be here with you again yes I was listening to and to you Mara and uh we see in our clinical work okay with lots and lots of patients the feelings of loneliness they are very heart um they hurt they are hurtful and uh they are feelings from the ego you know as a as a y animalist I'm always thinking both ways um what the ego feels and process and you know what and um the perceptions of the ego from the outside world and from from within like loneliness is something that I feel inside myself right I can be among a lot of people and feel very very lonely and disconnected from people um and when I feel lonely uh lonely loneliness everyone I think we feel um some a little depressed if not a lot depressed if loneliness is persistent right and uh maybe anxious right so the feeling of loneliness is something that the ego it's it's very painful for the ego and it can be from a past traumas for instance that I am among friends sometimes and and but I if I don't feel I belong or if I feel like people are leaving me you know they are leaving me because I'm not interested enough May many times have uh has to do with uh low self-esteem right and projection also because if I feel that people are not including me because I'm not in interesting enough or because whatever reason I'm feeling disconnected from people let's pay attention because I don't know what people are thinking so probably it's some kind of a projection some kind of U some complex that I have some difficulty uh that I'm projecting on to others and this is for instance the basic stuff in bullying situation right because um people project onto other um I don't want to of course it's unconscious but I don't want to have those characteristics because

is is for instance the basic stuff in bullying situation right because um people project onto other um I don't want to of course it's unconscious but I don't want to have those characteristics because other if I have them uh people won't like me right so uh I deny that I have and I see or I project onto others usually somebody that is quiet that it's you know timid or things like that and then I start bullying that person because I deny that I have uh some of this characteristics so this is the basic anyone that is bullying I'm sorry to tell you uh people that oh but it's so cool or I'm cool I don't like that especially teenagers in people and you know in this age of the ego that the ego is trying to adapt a lot so if I'm practicing bullying if I'm you know displeased with someone don't look to the person that you you know you are rejecting look inside yourself because it's inside ourselves that there are some aspects that are bothering or making us worried that we are not going to be loved and I have to pay attention to myself I cannot change others but I certainly can change myself that's all the basic stuff that we in Joanna calls us to do a lot pay attention to your inner world and you the same because in your inner world you are the king or queen or whatever you are the captain of your own ship so you can do whatever and you can evolve you can accept you can integrate aspects you can say wow that's me maybe I don't like what I'm seeing but I can change and uh whereas if I pay attention to outside world to other people what they do and what they don't do and criticize all the time um I can't do anything about others but I certainly can do a lot about myself so coming to what you and Jada were uh your you guys were talking about Solitude then we see that it's so important because loneliness we feel like negative because all this psychological stuff going on all the projections all the feelings of U you you know being left alone so depression anxiety but solitude it's

t because loneliness we feel like negative because all this psychological stuff going on all the projections all the feelings of U you you know being left alone so depression anxiety but solitude it's much needed I totally sympathize and empathize with what J were saying that it's so noisy outside of the whole time you know that we don't have Solitude this time to be alone with ourselves connected and searching for the inner connection for the inner voice for the higher self and the inner voice that tells us what we should be doing what we shouldn't be doing you know all the the wisest stuff that we have inside of ourselves so I think Solitude is much needed and I think loneliness uh of course we see a lot as I told you guys in clinical work because you always have to to go look for why are you feeling so lonely especially with spirit's knowledge that we know we are never alone in a good sense righteous and sometimes in a not very good sense if we are not very you know balanced then we can connect others that are unbalanced but um we are never alone so I think the feeling of loneliness is a psychological problem especially nowadays but it's also a spiritual problem because uh we are so disconnected uh with ourselves our inner World especially our spiritual World our spiritual knowledge that then we don't have um you know the time for Solitude for meditation prayers reconnection I don't know what I think maybe J would like to say something about that J you are on mute myself um yeah and I I think all of that the the the topics that you brought about uh it lead us to to think so much of course the subject is so deep and uh while you were talking was thinking that you know of course one of the aims of this podcast is always to try to bring help and comfort uh this is the main aim of spiritism and the spiritual one of the angelist as well is not here to give as a whip to be whipping ourselves because we are not doing the uh you know the things the way we should but just

ain aim of spiritism and the spiritual one of the angelist as well is not here to give as a whip to be whipping ourselves because we are not doing the uh you know the things the way we should but just for us to reflect and J of the angelist comes with one phrase and and then in relation to loneliness that she says that loneliness so when we are feeling lonely many times can be or can represent a call from the soul for a spiritual connection in deeper understanding of life's purpose so what were you trying to say here or how do we interpret this this thought by Joan deangeles I I I think in the sense that sometimes we may feel lonely because we want to follow Trends we we we want to follow people that perhaps you know we call the influencers of today but what if we do not attune with those people and the more we force ourselves to belong in those circles the more we are going to feel lonely so it's not necessarily because the world world is not open to you that there are no people that will you know sympathize with you or become your friend or or you know uh or share things of common interest but it's because we are searching in the wrong place we're searching for you know things to fulfill our emptiness that is more related to you know a call from the soul to say look is this the the way that you want to go this are the TP the kind of people that you want to have a relationship and we force and we force and somehow even if we can you know be good fakers it it will come time that you know they will notice because our energy is going to be deferring from their energy and somehow we are going to be putting aside which is a great favor they do to us so don't force yourself to belong to a certain circle just because it seems that is what we have to do today um think that the more we we we we live in a material world we have to to to to you know to provide for our our El we have commitments to fulfill we have the commitment of the Soul as well and if we don't look for something more to

we live in a material world we have to to to to you know to provide for our our El we have commitments to fulfill we have the commitment of the Soul as well and if we don't look for something more to try to understand more ourselves our you know inner uh Desires in the sense that the soul is claiming for for something more for for something more meaningful and and this is why somehow like it's commonly said you may feel lonely even when you are surrounded by countless people you know followers and um and I mean you can be in a position of power and you still feel lonely because you're not hearing the inner voice this is when loneliness can lead you to Solitude as being the way yeah yeah go ahead Maria no no no I just I I I really uh appreciate where you're going because the biggest Paradox that we live today is on one hand this incredible need to belong and when we don't I I when you talked about bullying right and I it just it hurts my heart to even think of all the children that are bullied but uh what you're mentioning here to all of us to hear loud and clear the person who's actually the instrument of bullying is also uh just simply projecting their own sense of inadequacy so we're all suffering some sort of uh ill fit in our society but in so many words we have a society in this Spex that is hyperconnected right hyperconnected we've never been disconnected before in in in in the history of our civilization and yet we are the most loneliest and because we're so distracted by external inputs we are disconnected not only from one another but also from ourselves we don't have either people therefore we're lonely but most importantly we don't have that safety to be okay to be by ourselves to look at our own company our own thoughts the silence of solitude I think U if I may cite Leon Deni in his book the problem of life in Destiny and I love him because he's he's so poetic he says in the Silence of solitude the soul hears the Divine voice that guides and sustains it it is in

Leon Deni in his book the problem of life in Destiny and I love him because he's he's so poetic he says in the Silence of solitude the soul hears the Divine voice that guides and sustains it it is in this quiet moment that the soul can truly understand the purpose of its existence and the lessons it must slay so it I I love it I love the whole concept yet we still have to deal with the fact that we hurt like you said uh an we hurt when we're lonely maybe you can talk a little bit more about are there any conditions from a medical perspective that we should be aware of yes um and I was listening but before I tell you one very interesting um in um awaken be happy I think it's name in English of Joanna's book yeah uh she has a wonderful sentence that I was listening to you guys and where where she says social life is inherent in the process of evolution of human beings incarnated or not uh since no one achieves spiritual of fulfillment by following alone so I was I was listening to guys and uh remembering that we need each other to evolve for our spiritual Evolution uh it's not by chance that we are you know fraternity compassion all the spiritual values are bring us peace when we are in contact with them right and um so I think this is so important uh that we are talking about and I think it's great the way that you put Solitude as a path for um this connection the connection that we need to develop among all of us as brothers and sisters because it's not only a outside to look to people but to understand that we are deep ly connected we are all interconnected and this um this what we call the the collective unconscious the transpersonal uh dimension of the psych is where psychically um or psychologically speaking and spiritually speaking we are uh in this uh Dimension we can understand and feel that we are we all have um you know the same symbols images we live the same archetypal uh experiences right so we are one in this sense so we need Solitude as J was saying as a path that

and and feel that we are we all have um you know the same symbols images we live the same archetypal uh experiences right so we are one in this sense so we need Solitude as J was saying as a path that Jan is and also you talked about Le beautiful uh sentence so as a path to um to our soul so our spiritual purpose in this life and to feel this deep connection among all of us that are here in this Dimension and in the spiritual Dimension because Jonah says incarnated or not we need each other right in the different dimensions of life we are all interconnected and in deep relationship with each other so uh in coming to the ego go where we we live the experience of this in space and time uh and in the material world but we are here to learn right so as Marsha was saying uh I was listening to you and I remember a cardiac um cardiac syndrome that it's called takuto syndrome okay it was um described first in Japan in 1990 by a Japanese scientist and it's because Taco it's octopusy in Japanese I don't know if if the pronunciation Japanese is the same but people from Japan sorry it's you know uh but uh it's a very in we call in Brazil and I think probably in United States too the broken heart syndrome okay because it's um It's A syndrome that it's a condition characterized by acute left ventricular dysfunction know that the the V left ventricle is ventrical is the the one that it's pump pumping most hardly uh the the blood to the rest of the the body and uh it can be hard to distinguish from aute a myocardial infection okay so and what it's interesting because you know the symptoms um from impar it's very U similar like pain in the chest like shortness of uh breath like tiredness palpitations you know but when you look at it uh it's not the same and the reason is because of course is if you go to the scientific the peer review um you know scientific research and literature they say oh we don't know we cannot you know we don't quite understand the reason but that's something that Brazilians have because

tific the peer review um you know scientific research and literature they say oh we don't know we cannot you know we don't quite understand the reason but that's something that Brazilians have because we are such a people you know very um warm in a sense very extroverted always hugging and kissing it's pretty Brazilian and uh I found some because I remember why do we call broken heart so when I went to see in the in the literature from the US they don't quite call it broken heart you know but in Brazil the cardiologists call broken heart because the hormones of stress are very high like adrenaline cortisol you know and usually it is uh men and women uh it doesn't matter but uh mostly women uh from a certain pause menopause from you know like 40 and ahead but it can be any time or male or female and the thing is that usually it's usually related uh in some articles um scientific articles with em high levels of emotional stress H especially the loss of somebody very near to your heart and uh broken relationships for instance okay so that's why popular is called the broken heart disease and and also I think it's very interesting because also the morbid mortality and morbidity it's very high in this patients too so it's really broken hard people but it's not because of the uh you know coronary uh occlusion or something like that that's the difference so you need to do exams and things like that but um I think it's very interesting because we know uh from researches also from from the NS on but people don't talk much about that that a lot of uh neurons so the nervous cells were found in the heart like um uh what I found is like 40,000 neurons in the heart and uh it was not thought that neurons only we have only in the brain at least when I was in medical school many decades ago it was supposed U neurons were only you know part of the brain tissue and now we know there are lots of neurons and I have also found some scientists saying that the electromagnetic field from the heart is

s supposed U neurons were only you know part of the brain tissue and now we know there are lots of neurons and I have also found some scientists saying that the electromagnetic field from the heart is much stronger than from the brain I think a lot of researches are being done in this field I'm not a cardiologist uh but as a psychiatrist I think it's very interesting because neurons are the intelligent cells of the body well all the cells are intelligence in the body correct yes but in terms of processing information from the outside and you know and from inside of course but especially in we are talking about um relationships right and processing information and feelings because um when when we say um I'm very sad I lost something very dear to my heart uh I love someone or something actually or very dear to my heart very important and um I broke up with someone that I love so much or somebody just moved away from my from me we don't say we don't show to our heads oh my head is hurting if my head is hurting I take a Tylenol or something right uh but we show the heart and we point Sorry to the heart and we say my heart is hurting and now the medical field is showing yes your heart is because there is information it used to be only a matter of speaking right or only symbolic but we the physiology of the body is saying no your heart is really hurting because your heart has neurons and has uh if we when we talk about electromagnetic field I automatically I think in um Andre Louise the spirit that has a lots of books that Chik shave psychograph and he said he was a a medical person but in the spiritual it and he gave a lot a lot of uh medical information to shiku chavier in I think it's started in the 40s right to start in 1940 something I think maybe even earlier Anna so for anyone who does not know him uh shik Xavier is one of the most prolific uh Brazilian medium and he has through psychography or automatic writing written over 400 books and uh one of the series of books that

who does not know him uh shik Xavier is one of the most prolific uh Brazilian medium and he has through psychography or automatic writing written over 400 books and uh one of the series of books that he brought was through Andre Luiz this medical person from the spiritual Dimension talking giving a lot of gifts right and with uh to anyone in the medical field that he was able to uh through shik Xavier bring to us such an enormous amount of information so it's a it's a good example there as well go ahead an sorry for the disruption great thank you so much because I wouldn't be able to you know all this information to process so well I myself with other colleagues we stayed like eight years studying only Andre Louise and the medical information and there are lots of Brazilians medical people you know and medical doctors that uh even the PHD and stuff like that and research in all the information that came many de decades previously to Medical to the medical field discover some of the information like in the information that chiko X gave in the about the pineal glands for instance but it's not our topic today but just to say that he talks a lot Andre Louise about the electromagnetic field okay in the body and a lot of information so if you can imagine so many NE neurons and we know that neurons um are and also the the the pump in the heart you know so the all the mechanism in the heart of course it produces a very strong electromagnetic field and we know that our uh perception of the spiritual Realms are through this you know this contact in electromagnetic field that's where the Pinel gland and stuff like that I think this is a very kind of maybe difficult for some people and can people can look and just that I can talk a little bit about that but my point is that we are just in the beginning of discovering uh the way that our body that's the Temple of our souls right connect uh with uh ourselves first of all in solitude with our our souls uh connect uh with others right with information coming

scovering uh the way that our body that's the Temple of our souls right connect uh with uh ourselves first of all in solitude with our our souls uh connect uh with others right with information coming spiritual emotional uh you know lots of information material information coming you know from different people and connect with the spiritual Dimensions so it's so beautiful we have so much to learn but we can think that in solitude as Joanna says we have a lot of information because as Jada and you Mara were talking about it's in solitude that we connect to our souls and to our spiritual um knowledge right and the spiritual knowledge that come it's coming from spiritual Realms so I think uh the noise the outside world uh if as just said if you are not tuned with you know the noise of the outside world for whatever reason and you are not feeling in peace with yourself then don't stay with in this you know with this people or in this uh if you can leave when you can oh but I'm going to be lonely uh lonely and people won't love me or whatever but I totally agree with J you are going to find the right people and the right connections and it's never been so important for us to reconnect with the right people with the the right in a sense of you know tuned emotions and the sense of peace that people can give you in a healthy relationship so we need to do that with ourselves and with others and let's not suffer from broken heart disease ta T taku but it's just an example how we can suffer phys you know in our physical bodies because of emotion emotions and feelings of helplessness of loneliness of depression and also um not in actually suffer in our psych too but I would love to hear you guys about that yeah and I was going to ask Jada maybe um the the counter uh discussion here may be that okay we we we started with uh loneliness and then the ability to learn because it may be a learned attribute or capability to be able to communicate to connect with yourself to to go deep within um and I'm

we we we started with uh loneliness and then the ability to learn because it may be a learned attribute or capability to be able to communicate to connect with yourself to to go deep within um and I'm I'm thinking just it that uh right when we talked about as human beings as biosocial beings we we are actually physically like you mentioned anay there is a A syndrome for us that are somehow feeling at a loss the loss of a loved one etc etc but what happens when when we are inserted in a situation in a social context that makes us afraid and it's easier perhaps to isolate ourselves right to avoid contact it's easier to to control uh instead of being exposed to I don't know to being rejected exposed to be bullied exposed to whatever is out there and I was just thinking if you don't mind talking a little bit about it uh the the the from this chaotic environment that we may be part of uh often uh at least it's my experience right now in my professional World um where it's a very diverse Community it's great but then we are also facing with a multitude of conflicts confrontations right and and I keep thinking I just want a confirmation here somehow just being in this quote unquote air quote here uh soup of all of the different types of people including being receiving microaggressions right um it's a way that we can also exercise uh our emotional muscles uh where we can start to look into feelings of tolerance or kindness or um of course compassion what are your thoughts Jara on on on that realm of uh social relationships and now uh I'm thinking about those there are listening to us that may be feeling in this kind of stage of loneliness and as we started this podcast we we we emphasized the difference between you know you being alone because you you feel this need you're you're being in solitude because you wanted to have time to to explore yourself more to have a more spiritual connection anything that uh emotionally spiritually speaking you are going to gain and as I talked and

in solitude because you wanted to have time to to explore yourself more to have a more spiritual connection anything that uh emotionally spiritually speaking you are going to gain and as I talked and and show to us as well even physically because uh when we go in the Oppo opposite direction we our body will will feel the consequences as when I go in the direction of you know self analyzing that will lead me to self love as well this is healing this is healing ourselves this is healing uh you know the the body the cells the neurons everything and of course uh I mean we can't or maybe very few can um but in any case we shouldn't live in isolation because we live in society because we have to learn from one another and we have to contribute with one another being the altruistic emotion one of the most important ones that will also contribute for us feeling better about ourselves and not feeling feeling that no U that lonely because you know we are thinking about others and even if others are not by ourselves I mean the image the sense of others the sense that I can use something to help it should be enough to fulfill us so in this sense how can we actually live in the world and not have those emotions uh considering everything that the world gives us right I mean things situations that can impact us so much but you see the world can give you anything but you are not obliged to accept it so in relationships with others in situations like we live in the world I'm not obliged to accept them all I'm not obliged to get myself in a state of despair of losing hope of feeling you know that um you know this low self-esteem anything and and one of the thing that we said at the beginning that loneliness is a state of mind so who controls the mind or who can control the mind or should control the mind is only us so if I'm allowing others to do that uh so control your minds love yourselves allow yourself to feel lonely sometimes because you know this is life we all are going to experience so many

nd is only us so if I'm allowing others to do that uh so control your minds love yourselves allow yourself to feel lonely sometimes because you know this is life we all are going to experience so many different emotions but they make us grow and then transform loneliness into a period where maybe I need to take a break from the world right now and my relationships but I'm not going to take a break from me and I'm not going to give up on me and I'm going to you know use this moment of solitude now to get the better out of me love it love it we are at time so just wanted to to maybe um give my own thoughts as we say good by which is the idea that fear of loneliness should give way to confidence like you said just like confidence on what are your values what are your paths for the content within and and and maybe even seek the teachings of Jesus right our ultimate psychotherapist because he's the one who suggested love one's neighbor to the same extent that you love yourself so first we need to love ourselves and then we also need to love those around us and learning to love through whatever means necessary and by that I mean that uh that chaotic environment that we may see ourselves in requires an exercise a muscle of a loving muscle if you will but I wanted to open just uh before we we say goodbye uh just invitation for any final thoughts from either of you well I'll just follow and I think it's exactly that and um remember what Joanna J says that um when we evolve when we find inner peace and in solitude right we are talking about that and plitudes she talks also about you know that we feel whole and we feel connected to the source to our father um um you know our the spiritual world uh our friends and benefactors in spiritual world then we we can help others we cannot help others if we don't do the inner work uh or finding ourselves and find in peace and finding plitude so that's what I wish to everyone and really I totally agree with you let's trust ourselves our souls

others if we don't do the inner work uh or finding ourselves and find in peace and finding plitude so that's what I wish to everyone and really I totally agree with you let's trust ourselves our souls because that's the way thank you just add any final words to everyone yeah the final words would be you may feel lonely but we you don't have to go through that alone so look for help in the you know spiritual emotional physical uh areas you know and uh don't stay don't stay by yourself and you know there is help that can come to you and sometime like we said it can be um a byproduct of a depression or something so look for emotional help look for Spiritual help and talk to a doctor because all of those things and talk to friends as well talk to family all of those things are going to help us in this sense very good thank you thank you J thank you an's beautiful discussion on Solitude and loneliness how they counter each other but there is room for both in the silence that we need to to bring to ourselves the ability to bring silence to ourselves and get to know who we are connect with Who We Are with that I want to say thank you and I'll see you next week in our next podcast thanks everyone byebye by bye