Ep 101 - Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde: The Ego vs. The Self

hi everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to Better Life discussion I'm your host mercan and with me is our program founder Jada corro I know Jada this is the work of a tribe right there's so many of us that are working together especially under the guidance of our wonderful wonderful Joanna d'angeles and also dealo per Franco who are helping us guide through those conversations it is so so good to be here and uh I I love the opportunity just decided to be here with you to talk about psychology and spirituality I wanted to say that uh today I would like for us to to Really zoom in in it's it's almost like a cliche right but uh the idea that uh what happens to you to me when we just keep sweeping the dirt under the rug and never clean it up metaphorically speaking right and uh before we we dive into that that's the the the frontal concept that we want to talk today I want to say just that I came across a no novel I know you know quite well but if you who are here in in our discussion today may not remember completely I'd like to to talk about Dr Jackal and Mr hide so this novel written by Robert Luis Stevenson highlighted the sense of duality in our in human nature overall and uh wanted to say that well first and foremost he wrote that uh in n in 1885 right and it was first published actually a year later in 1886 and this story just to get us in the same path of thought process just the story is about this doctor quite respected Dr Henry Jackal and uh so you start to think in terms of the the thought that comes to my mind J is a very strong Eagle right he's very uh has a great reputation a very respected doctor and he comes across the opportunity to create a potion that actually when he drinks it transforms him into a completely different person and that person Mr Hyde Mr Edward Hyde uh we can call it very cruel right and uh by the context of the time lacking the moral of the same Dr Jackal and as do Mr Hyde uh Dr jaal EXs out all of his darker impulses without even blinking an

de uh we can call it very cruel right and uh by the context of the time lacking the moral of the same Dr Jackal and as do Mr Hyde uh Dr jaal EXs out all of his darker impulses without even blinking an eye he there is no sense of uh consequence right and but he he's he's putting everything that is somehow swept under the rug we can see and uh those impulses are acted but over time that transformation from Dr Jackal into Mr Hyde is no longer as controllable as it was at the beginning of the narrative so the if we were to do a summary a quick quick summary of the book would say that U it is uh this this whole um uh event and uh unwarranted transformation of Mr Jacko is is narrated to us the reader through the perspective of his friend uh his lawyer who's a friend and he start to investigate what's going on and eventually it brings to the Forefront that those two individuals as desperate as they are are the same person and of course now it is this um a discussion no longer about the tion and change in Behavior but really how do we struggle with the duality in one's identity that can lead in his case to very tragic outcomes so some people call it um good versus evil some other just call about the complexity of our Humanity just out our human psyche right and uh and of course ultimately simp people say well it's all about the dangers at a very surface level of unchecked scientific experimentation but I just thought can we talk a little bit about uh uh some of the ideas that uh uh Stevenson brings to us and how it marries the some of the very interesting Concepts that joah d'angeles brings to us about the totality Duality and our what we some of the elements that we struggle with what do you think well first of all hello everyone whatever you are I hope you have you are having a great day and this is going to be even better now that we are all together thank you Marcia for all this introduction that it's absolutely amazing and H as as as we we think about things and um someone is

t day and this is going to be even better now that we are all together thank you Marcia for all this introduction that it's absolutely amazing and H as as as we we think about things and um someone is start explaining it like you were explaining it now there was so many new things that it start popping on my mind yeah first of all was the the time frame for all these ideas you know that the book by Dr Stenson that came at the you know in the late 19th century yeah which was exactly when everything about psychology the Psychiatry is started taking shape and and um so we see when the truth is about to be revealed it comes in different forms in different places right and here we have this case a Book Literature that is going to Enlighten so much in relation to us ourselves and and what is amazing is that you know when this um topic of Dr Jackal and Mr Hy is actually mentioned by by the the benefactor you know the Joan angelist in her book in search of proof that written through you know the valo Pereira Franco and in chapter one the human being and its totality when she's talking about you know the different structures about us as you know in our first first stages of life as much as we started developing in terms of you know our physiology the physical organism and it went through millions and millions of years of perfecting this machine that somehow many times we take it for granted right absolutely absolutely yeah so much right from it and we think that you know it's it's never going to break and it's not something that I can go to the store and just replace it right uh maybe one day but not now we know this in spiritism and spiritualism as being reincarnation you will need a new body but then that is going to be a whole new process so she talks about it but then she comes to this point of the bipolar structure of the human being and bipolar here she's not talking about the pathology uh right that is a diagnosis from the psychiatric field but she's talking about us in terms of our Duality

e bipolar structure of the human being and bipolar here she's not talking about the pathology uh right that is a diagnosis from the psychiatric field but she's talking about us in terms of our Duality and then it is when we you know she mentions this this book along her explanations in you know in how we we we little by little get into um the all this process of evolving evolvement we go into the evolvement of our conscious as well with started with the Basic Instincts and then it started expressing emotions communication communication through you know to through verbal communication written communication then we go to the phase where we we going to get you know so many achievements and achievements like we have today in terms of Technology medicine all those things but then it comes to the point where she goes into what we truly are which is not necessarily this material body it is uh this you know the soul the Mortal spirit and how we act in the world and what is this story that is behind this spirit that has been living and experien things from Millenia and then she mentions Dr Jackal and Mr Hyde as a perfect example in terms of this inner conflict that we go through in terms of ego versus self and by the way I love that Stevenson called Mr hide Mr Hy because it's exactly the hidden part of ourselves I don't think it was just a coincidence that he name it Hy Hy right although it's with an a why instead of an I but it's the same thing it is someone that somehow we don't know it is hidden in ourselves being the sum up of so many differences different uh uh excursions that we had through life but not necessarily now being in total control or knowledge what do you think about it Marcia I I I love it right uh and and just if you don't mind going back to what you said right uh uh which is the idea because uh it it's to me my my very linear way of thinking it's always good to have that sense of History so number one the historical reference of the evolution of mankind this machine as you

he idea because uh it it's to me my my very linear way of thinking it's always good to have that sense of History so number one the historical reference of the evolution of mankind this machine as you said and and it's so important to understand that uh and we may think why aren't we quote unquote created Perfect Right Jada and and just in that question uh we can spend the hours and hours talking about it itself but the notion of uh time to evolve as a human race and as a human being so the the collective and the individual how important it is and how as you mentioned we go in order to achieve that psychological maturity that uh sense of uh uh more of the totality that we're discussing here right uh we we need to confront first and foremost our vulnerability our immaturity our uh still imperfect body and mind and and quite frankly spirit so that we can achieve that uh that sense of uh what what we call which is the one of the books by Jonah d'angeles the integral human being the title of the second book in her Series right the integral human being which to me uh brings such a um notion of totality of uh understanding and harmonizing who we are and as evidence in this book how could we reconcile the aspects that we so try to hide as you said right Mr hide is an awesome name that was chosen how do we reconcile the things that we hide deeply right J and how it is important to do the opposite to actually bring our ignorance our lack of awareness our lack of morality we could even say our lack of uh uh intelligence whatever that may be that is our true north where we want to be let's bring where we are so that we can better become what we can be does it make sense what I'm saying yeah there are so many things we can learn from the story and that applies to us one things that we always we always be getting back to yeah is uh this process is not possible without self- knowledge yes so we can resist as much as we want but until we really Embrace this process uh we will be in

we always we always be getting back to yeah is uh this process is not possible without self- knowledge yes so we can resist as much as we want but until we really Embrace this process uh we will be in this kind of Confrontation in this inner conflict right uh it's easy to understand um first of all I mean going with the flow of the the book how excited and curious Dr Jacko was in terms of new discovery you know being capable of somehow accessing uh his inner feelings and uh the self per se right because the ego being what we remember you know uh the rules of society the reflection of the times the era that we are living yes there was a whole new world uh that was coex existing with him that he was not um uh that did not have any knowledge before but it him but it was not it was not that him that he was portraying but it was some something more and so one of the things is for us to have this idea this knowledge and understanding that even to ourselves if it if it is hard for others to know ourselves it is even harder I think for us for for us to know ourselves so there is whole part and and and and Joanna d'angeles mentions for instance that that famous image of the the iceberg you see the the iceberg but we are not only that and actually that doesn't represent that much so now what is going to be the process that is going to be allow is going to allow me to to get you know to know the greater part of myself and of course when I start digging deeper there will sides and aspects of me that I I will be a surprise to the the way I'm I was brought up in this Incarnation and how I you know Society lives like I say but there is only this this form to understand and so in this case where we see Mr Hyde showing you know much more reassurance because he has so much more information than Dr Jacko right yeah he he contains much more and uh the fact that uh and normally this is also associated with the concept of the Shadows which is part that we hide or we press and uh over and over I've been

o right yeah he he contains much more and uh the fact that uh and normally this is also associated with the concept of the Shadows which is part that we hide or we press and uh over and over I've been hearing the experts because I'm I'm I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist I've been a studying Jan d'angeles for over three decades but I'm I'm I I do not have a degree on that but we hear the the the the the experts saying that the shadow just because it's called The Shadow not necessarily mean something dark something ugly it can I yeah when you have a chance I'd love to to add a different Nuance to to to the concept that you're bringing but go ahead go ahead no no go ahead you can do it enough no it's because it's important for us to to talk about the self-awareness self- knowledge and the confrontation of the so-called Shadow and so I love that you're about to talk about the shadow to us is Darkness or lack of visibility right we don't see and many many many of us believe the shadow is is all the bad stuff but it's not as you're about to say so one of the things that I wanted to maybe introduce here just is and this is uh a model developed by uh two psychologists uh Joseph L and Harry Ingam and this is mid 1900s so 1950 55 they developed this model that is really well utilized by uh uh Human Resources organizations right and uh why do they use it because it's it's easier to understand than the notion of even the iceberg that you were talking about the the the the idea of conscious and unconscious what's above the surface is conscious what's not but then it's much harder to to Really dive into all that permeates into that but the model and and it's portrayed academically as if it was we were people all of us divided into four quadrants okay and those four quadrant this is the concept of jari window justad I don't know if you if you read about it uh but the the je it's a window so it's four panes in a window and uh it really helps us understand ourselves and uh how to become better at

jari window justad I don't know if you if you read about it uh but the the je it's a window so it's four panes in a window and uh it really helps us understand ourselves and uh how to become better at respecting the other when the other is not even aware of certain flaws so it's awesome from an HR function used to give feedback right but just to to add to this discussion about self-awareness and looking and and and bringing light to the shadow uh in the model uh Johari Windows model there are four areas and if you're looking to the top left um this is what is known to yourself and known to others we can call it the public Persona right and it's what perhaps uh Dr Jackal wanted to be seen right as a uh a doctor who with the uh all the knowledge etc etc then if you go to the right of of the same ex's uh you actually see the blind spot blind spot is I don't know this about myself but others can see right so maybe uh you start to see at somebody that uh is repressing I don't know uh let's let's get something easy right repressing the idea of intolerance right and but everybody can see that that person is really intolerant herself himself therefore this is a blind spot for this person on the lower left we have what we call the the a hidden area or facade which is the area that you are but you really guard against that people to know uh who you are an example that is very benign is I may be let's say my profession requires that I am very organized right I'm a project manager so I have to be very organized but uh unbeknown to most people I am the sloppiest the most disorganized person in the world and I I try to to not show that to people just as an example so it's a it's my hidden uh area and finally that unkknown which is really the Deep unconscious right it's you don't know and people don't know about you but it's part of who you are so I think it's super cool to start to also break down um the the the topic of self-awareness when we start to look at uh you just may see me Marcia and see

know about you but it's part of who you are so I think it's super cool to start to also break down um the the the topic of self-awareness when we start to look at uh you just may see me Marcia and see some things that it's I'm blind to it so with respect and honor you can come to me and say Marcia you need to know about this right so that's the feedback that professional companies are using but I on the other hand may come to you Jada and out of my incredible trust and courage come to you st Jad I want to open up about something that I don't trust other people to be aware about myself so I love that uh uh the model jari window because it gives yet another dimension about the search about our own truth right yeah um really comes directly in what we are talking in terms of understanding the complexity of all of this that's why in in one way uh we are not going to to be achieving this opportunity of removing uh this thing of removing the conflict between ego and self overnight process that is going to take Millennia it's interesting how Jan deangeles even when she's talking about this whole process of you know this confrontation of understanding uh you know that there are SS in you and um that uh you ignored somehow or you know things that we just come of of course most of the time we just focus on the negative but it doesn't need to be uh negative let let's say that we have a a a person that is very shy yeah uh and all of a sudden a situation Rises where where someone has has to take a stand yeah this person starts you know uh taking the podium and and and and doing something that even the person didn't know uh he or she was possible was capable of doing that so we have several examples that we we could uh we could think uh think about you know uh this other side you know the other side of the moon of ourselves right the other of Jara that I that I don't know and what she talks about here and as being an essential part of this process of self- knowledge self awareness is

e other side of the moon of ourselves right the other of Jara that I that I don't know and what she talks about here and as being an essential part of this process of self- knowledge self awareness is selflove oh beautiful beautifully said yeah um and because you know when we start getting in touch with ourselves then she says it's not about just uh uh accepting all our weaknesses but being aware of them and working on on them and not uh becoming extremely strict in our way of in judging ourselves and seeing things but she and then she goes and she mentions something that I I I thought it was extraordinary says that we have a way of tricking ourselves into believing that we do have love but it's still we are not capable of self-loving and so a way that the shadow right or let's say can can do is disguise within ourselves love in the form of I love others yes so love there I have love so I have love for others but then at the when you do Analyze This is just as these guys of the sad Shadow saying to yourself no you do have love don't worry about it yeah to refrain us from the process of self loving so you see how trick this this is and how hard it is for us to uh to get in touch she even mentioned an example like uh maybe some of you went through that already that when you go and start praying and all of you start praying you start having lift thoughts and you know all those beautiful images and and and words and everything and all of a sudden there are inadequate thoughts that try to invade your mind yeah things that normally you are are completely in contradiction with prayer with uh highly pointed commuting with the I and she says do you know what is happening when you're doing that and why do you feel this or when you are praying it is because somehow the self didn't like that you start shaking things up yeah and just go there and send the opposite response of what you trying to do yeah and that's hard right yeah I one thing that came to my mind because talking here

ke that you start shaking things up yeah and just go there and send the opposite response of what you trying to do yeah and that's hard right yeah I one thing that came to my mind because talking here about uh what I call very courageous right the the courage it's a courageous uh process you you need to to have the courage to confront what you hide from yourself so the idea of hiding yourself consciously or not right so uh a shadow is usually an unconscious defense mechanism because you need that to defend against a perceived or real threat and and and and you do that you build that illusion that Persona that mask to protect yourself and now you start to repress because the mask is to be what you're not you repress what uh what is is hidden or from you right so one of the things that uh that you alluded to uh and and of course Joanna in in her book in search of Truth brilliantly writes about it is is the notion of Shadow work right Jada and one of the things that came to my mind I don't know if uh if you're familiar but it's the idea of Shadow work in the myth of pan right have you have you read anything about it um not not so much okay so so first of all who who is you know uh if we think in terms uh um for us uh the the myth of pen and the shadow work are interesting because they both uh the myth in the work uh to to uh know yourself through Shadow work explore the aspects of our human psyche and our experience when we are looking into a Rel relationship with our unconscious right so back to um um the potion with the Dr Dr Jackal right he only uh allowed that potion allowed to express through the very dark Mr Hyde because the darker impulses were were there right J so if he never had that a Mr hide would not come out as cruel as he was in the book so the the idea here is that we we all have the shadow positive or not but we have something that we are unaware and when we do Shadow work we start to bring to light right we start to look into it that's the the goal everyone this is the

have the shadow positive or not but we have something that we are unaware and when we do Shadow work we start to bring to light right we start to look into it that's the the goal everyone this is the goal is to look at everything that we somehow repress we repress because of the context that we're living our society our family etc etc so it may be our fragility our weaknesses our I don't know our desires right uh anything that uh in order for us to be accepted to belong we judge that those are not good enough so we hide and uh some hidden just as a as a as a a way of uh giving additional examples could be I'm an angry person I just I don't know I can as I say this I can think of many people that I know that are angry people no matter what happens if something little happens it strikes that anger response uh and so at some point through I don't know anger management classes ET this person start to repress or suppress that anger uh another aspect which is we we talked many many times from an emotional landscape fear shame whatever we all bring and sometimes we try to to repress so back to the myth of pan pan um is the god of the wild right the nature Shepherds and flocks and uh the figure of the Smith is he's a half man half goat right so with this the myth is all about uh the notion of us human beings and how we body our very animal Primal um instinctive nature right so it's all of that is really Untamed uh or I don't know UN unchecked forces within ourselves and uh like Mr hide so there is no filter there is a abandonment into those desires those forces that come from within so he represents joy and Chaos in the world and within ourselves but when we talk about Shadow work and and the myth of pan is that at some point he believes there's nothing wrong with him and and I think this is where um uh just I we need to be cautiously aware that uh uh for us to grow to evolve we must have the courage as I said before but also it's almost like a sense of betrayal that I'm betraying what I'm

here um uh just I we need to be cautiously aware that uh uh for us to grow to evolve we must have the courage as I said before but also it's almost like a sense of betrayal that I'm betraying what I'm worked so hard to contain what are your thoughts uh into that idea of uh um instead of repressing containing Having the courage to surface accept and and that idea of self-love that you mentioned right so that when you accept and you love you now are able to become what you really are without having to lie about your your true nature what I think that whole process you know it's a calling to self-awareness inviting us not to be just the spectators of life you know lives and sometimes you know we position our life in in in a way that it seems that we do not have responsibility for what is happening to us and I think it's very important especially when we are studying about spiritual values and we see in terms in in his spirit is so clear When Alan bring this concept of uh uh Obsession or spiritual attachment in the the Mion book where sometimes you know if you have this kind of knowledge or understanding of you know after life and the the the the influence of spirits in your life you can think that you know it's not my responsibility or like we had in you know in in Christianity is is that is doing is acting upon me rarely we see manifestations of the Saints of course sometimes you know with people like Mother Teresa will say well she is the reflection and the representation and and probably she is um inspired and guided by an Angel yeah most of us we are inspired and guided and guided by demons and sometimes we position ourselves in this way I think and and and and like you you said it doesn't mean coming into terms with what I am if I still think that I'm not in control and so that imagery that we have of the little angel and in one side and the devil at the other side and you know they're they're kind of you know is a like a competition who is going me and sometimes you know even if the good

e have of the little angel and in one side and the devil at the other side and you know they're they're kind of you know is a like a competition who is going me and sometimes you know even if the good force is Wing you may not feel the Merit entirely on yourself because it that it was all inspired by a third part uh party which is not you and so now you know with all the spir spiritual understanding and actually with psychology because here is what the the experts are are telling us listen listen more into you and don't blame it on the strange whether it's a friend that is inducing you to a certain of behavior or a spirit a spiritual attachment that you may have but it's you it's sometimes within yourself it is present in you and unless you face it there is no way you are going to come into terms with that and the whole point of Joanna de angelist in this chapter especially when she talks about the self love is exactly that listen of course you are going to be seeing ugly things because there is one thing that we normally say if you don't like that much your version in this Incarnation I can guarantee to you that the other ones were worse very like technology right yeah yeah yeah love it love it yeah progressing from model to model right yes there's no way I mean with rare exception that you will say oh that old thing was better than the new thing now right so um this is what happened and and and here is is what she's uh uh proposing to us it is there it will come to serve there is no way repression is going to work it's just just going to aggravate situation is very much like you said at the beginning Mara it's just sweeping the dirt under the rug never cleaning up one all that is going to to to appear somehow and you have to deal with that yeah so much easier if we acknowledge ourselves as being an immortal being and okay I have weaknesses I have virtues I have good things that I'm proud of others so much but I'm not going to avoid seeing who I am yeah and finding ways to come

selves as being an immortal being and okay I have weaknesses I have virtues I have good things that I'm proud of others so much but I'm not going to avoid seeing who I am yeah and finding ways to come into terms with that and the way that she presents that in the sh chapter is beautiful is when she presents that uh famous statement by Paul when she says it's no longer I will leave but Christ who lives in me meaning Christ not the person right but the model the example so before I was someone that was not in uh in balance with myself right now you know if I think about Harmony if I think about ultimate love and and compassion and charity and knowledge and understanding and all that we think about you know a model like Jesus like Christ and this what it happens here when it's not about um um obliterating one or the other but when the two of them are in Perfect Harmony right yes yes and and I I'm I I know we're coming to the end here uh but I wanted to to say that one of the things that came to to my mind was a class it's a very interesting and uh quite um uh prevalent in many of spiritist uh uh centers and groups uh to study what they it's usually called inner transformation right and in in that course and i' oh my goodness I've uh first time that uh I I took the class it was uh I don't know about 40 years ago so right and at the time um it was this idea uh it contain the idea that you needed to look at yourself highlight uh all your qualities right your virtues if you will and also make an inventory of all your imperfections your defects right the things that are actually wrong including addictions or addictive behaviors in that and and then you go day by day trying to to remove what's a defect and what is uh an addiction etc etc and really focus on becoming pure quality um and then we we come to study read be really taken by the the thoughts that Jonah d' Angels brings to us in her whole uh psychology collection you then immediately come to terms with the idea that inner

nd then we we come to study read be really taken by the the thoughts that Jonah d' Angels brings to us in her whole uh psychology collection you then immediately come to terms with the idea that inner transformation it's all about not repressing but the it's the the the process of self-discovery of uh uh looking at yourself and with love and compassion just like back to that concept of Johari's Window Jada when let's say either the the the two of the the quadrants either the one that you you try the the um uh blind spot right where you see that I have a blind spot and with respect and care and compassion you come to me and you see uh Marcia if you were to have the courage and and the time and the desire to look into that you be a better person right and so should we as we look at some things that were um hidden to us from ourselves the same way as if if it is a a hidden area that we start to be courageous enough to say I'm going to bring uh up to the world this um aspect of who I am because that's who I am I can no longer stay um living a lifee be uh because all I need all we need to truly get to a point of selflove is living a life of authenticity and I I guess the the overall U message that I see from from today's discussion is the message that we really need to um not only Embrace who we are right but to understand that there will always be that those those conflicting aspects um I I think just to to to finalize and I would like to to hear from you as well if you have any final thoughts just but I'm we are reminded that Joanna d'angeles cautions us that uh overarchingly right this is a very broad statement that in a religious movement any religious movement um if the the goal of that movement that church that uh that sacred text is to um understand all the conflicts that we bring within ourselves and to overcoming them it is really important for us to go back to what you mentioned before J which is to consider the little angel and the little demon uh that figure that we see in comics and and

s and to overcoming them it is really important for us to go back to what you mentioned before J which is to consider the little angel and the little demon uh that figure that we see in comics and and little different uh children's stories Etc but they do exist and they are sides of who we are so uh it it it simply uh underlies or highlights the the fact that we as we are today all of us you me all of us here have this inherent Duality that is within us and all that we're trying to understand is to reach a sense of balance a sense of equilibrium right because when we recognize that Duality does exist within us it's very much a a present and and very strong force within our psyche then we are able to achieve that sense of uh I don't know Harmony um Integrity balance and those aspects of our personality will lead to psychological maturity to emotional and spiritual achievement what are your thoughts just yeah I was thinking in a way of simplifying all that remembering about you know a very good friend of mine Dr D Jo yander and has a way of presenting uh this imagery to to us that it can be an exercise to ourselves in terms of being like you say when you do a self assessment uh uh you will definitely see what are the points that I uh that I still need to work on so way he presents that is let us imagine that we have a an next number of little cups okay and those little cups each one of them represent one of the virtues we want you want or you know you want to achieve of you know the the the good things you want to achieve right and and so you named them uh so I want to be humbler then you know work more on my my humility so if I look at that cup for the moment it is basically empty right so my task is I have to fill up this cup because I love it yeah this cup is filled is not filled I'm presenting in myself in my behavior exactly the opposite of what I wanted to of I want to achieve so I want to achieve humility the cup is basically empty so now I'm presenting myself more you know uh

presenting in myself in my behavior exactly the opposite of what I wanted to of I want to achieve so I want to achieve humility the cup is basically empty so now I'm presenting myself more you know uh selfishness arrogance uh things like that so uh we can ask ourselves what little cup do I need to fill this Weg which one it's more need of my attention right now and and like dado Franco says uh it is not about repressing or trying to push away because the space if if we push away the space still needs something like this empty cup it still requires water to fill it up so if I just push away it's not it's going to still be there the only way for me to change it is to put the opposite emotion so there is a negative emotion I need to replace it not just push it away ignore it hide it and become a Mr Hyde right all sudden Dr Jackal re here is oh my God what is happening to me who is this person that I'm becoming there must be a possession or something no yes it's the possession of you yourself that has been hidden for so many time so let's go with that let's think about you know a little cup that you need F fill this week and maybe the cup of you know being more charitable it can be the cup of being more attentive to the needs of others it can be the cup of you know becoming less proud uh you know less Pride the pride in the negative sense uh where that we are better than everyone else so all of those things and ultimately we are all going to get there uh it depends on us it depends on our effort and the you know this integration is going to happen so the sooner we start being becoming aware and doing something about it the sooner we will see ourself living in this kind of balance that we so much wanted to happen love it thank you thank you for your kind words to all of us right let us imagine the the empty or not so empty cups of where we want to be and I just want to say we are at time and I want to say if this is the first time that you're here to listen to our discussion

let us imagine the the empty or not so empty cups of where we want to be and I just want to say we are at time and I want to say if this is the first time that you're here to listen to our discussion our program please take a moment to notice that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on works as it was probably abundantly clear today but the works by Joanna deangeles and we're here to offer the space that we can oh confront compare correlate go against each other right just said we are here to to just really talk about some Concepts so that we can expand our concepts of spirituality from a psychological lens and be able to potentially perhaps lead a better life we want to take a moment to thank our sponsors manand Cino the United States Spirits Federation the international uh spirs Council and umy Brazil the Brazilian arm of the medical spiritist association I hope to see you back during our next episode when we'll continue this interesting discussion about uh the search of of our truth thank you everyone and see you later