Ep 121 - From Shadow to Self: Reclaiming Meaning in a Fractured World

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality, a bridge to better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore this intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result, we aim to capture timeless wisdom contained in both fields. I'm super excited to be here with you, Jazada, because as our podcast founder and co-host, you bring me so much insight and very deep, profound reflections of Joanna the Anggeles about this journey of the human spirit. Right? So we're going to start maybe today's discussion about this this journey this travel from instinct to self-awareness and transcendence. But before we start I just want to know how you doing Josada. Well hello Marcia what kind of words you are telling me it's so nice to hear we need more kindness in the world. So it's it it's it's great. It's amazing that we have been doing this this podcast for so long already and that uh each time more we are having so many great great feedbacks from everyone and yeah let's keep up doing the good work. That's that's great to hear our podcast. Yeah. So today um Josara the plan is to discuss and perhaps uncover this path for um achieving a meaningful life. And this is a heavy topic. I think both all of us most of us on earth today are empty. We are devoid of meaning. So we are seeking rather desperately to find what is a meaningful life. Where does it lie? And Jonah the Angels as we know she states very clearly it does not lie in the external world but within where faith reason and self-nowledge converge. So I just wanted to to maybe propose this u just shall we talk about what does this meaningful journey to the soul look like? What are your thoughts? Yeah, this is um quite interesting because from our perspective and this is something that we have been you know kind of repeating uh in our talks uh about the perspective we have uh in relation to life being living in a material world very rarely we are thinking about ourselves as spirits as immortal spirits and uh sometimes s even questioning what

bout the perspective we have uh in relation to life being living in a material world very rarely we are thinking about ourselves as spirits as immortal spirits and uh sometimes s even questioning what is my purpose here? Why am I what am I doing here? And so because of that I think we we lose track of uh what we are here to to to to accomplish and and really of this journey that we you're talking about. We forgetting that we are so a soul and a spirit and a mortal spirit. we go more into the direction of what seems to be uh the things that are worrying me right now the needs that I need to to to fulfill right now and I I forget that it's temporary so the meaningful meaningful journey the meaningful path is to at least to find balance because of course we are not talking about here completely completely obliterate ating the material world because this is not possible. We are here we live in a material body. We have to fulfill you know the needs of this material body but but uh we cannot lose track of the spirit. And so the journey means constantly being reminded or remembering yourself that you are a spirit. And the the the reason why you are here and what you have to learn is much more important. And and everything that is happening to you has a meaning. And and you know when you go through different phases in your life be that of happiness or pain um people always come to you and say there is a lesson behind all that even you know constantly we hear when we are going through hard stuff but sometimes you know when we are going through to good times as well you know deep inside our minds we are think what did I do to deserve you know I hear you the days or months of such bliss, right? Or experience of such bliss. And so I think we have to to to remember that yeah, each each one of our experiences, they have a meaning in our journey. And um and we have to pay attention to that in order to increase our potentiality as a as a spirit. Yeah. And uh and this reminds me of

each one of our experiences, they have a meaning in our journey. And um and we have to pay attention to that in order to increase our potentiality as a as a spirit. Yeah. And uh and this reminds me of couple of uh reference material, reference books if you will. And uh number one, when you said that uh we get lost, right? We get distracted. Why? Well, we we live in a material world. We we have responsibilities. We we have to do things take care of uh our family members ourselves etc. And we end up forgetting the spiritual component which is the larger component. If you think in terms of relative scale of our very ephemeral very small lifetime which is oh let's say 85 90 years right in one lifetime in the mortality of the soul but we do and the book that came to my mind and please don't judge me but that's what came to my mind was the book by Steve Kovi right where um it's a business book and he talks about the seven habits of highly successful people and just I don't know if you read this book but it's very interesting um because he he puts things into if you have no idea what you should be spending time just put four quadrants and start with what's important what's urgent what's not important and what's not urgent and then what's important and urgent. So we start with this what's important and urgent and instead of focusing on the urgent focus on what's important, what's meaningful. So that's I I thought it was a very interesting um way to think about our lives at a very superficial level but can you know push us to to think about yeah am I am I spending my energy my choices right my my desires my my effort in what's important or maybe simply what's urgent but urgent may not be what we should be working on because those are most likely distractions and all that that is actually amazing. But in all that everything uh uh is related to the starting point. The painting your starting point. You are going to judge that this is important and this is urgent when from perspective is absolutely not and this

t everything uh uh is related to the starting point. The painting your starting point. You are going to judge that this is important and this is urgent when from perspective is absolutely not and this is what one of the brings about many time many of her books you know um what are you doing where are you putting your mind into you know you have been so distracted by what the media is telling you that you need and how you have to present yourself in society and all that and you are completely forgetting about the values of the soul and things that are actually the only things that are going to bring contentment to you in a definite way. And so uh in this sense I think we still have to mature a little bit because we are you know we will be it will be difficult for us to judge in a correct way what is important and urgent versus what is not. Of course we think perhaps uh into a task like you know this is like you say a business a business book. So you're talking about you know your your role in a company in an organization. So I it's more um straightforward what you have to do you know I have to achieve success I have to to you know reach a certain level of sales or this or that. It may easy but when we are talking about applying those values in our lives I think this is where we complicate it our lives because uh we are basically and this is you know Joanna D'Angel is talking you know she in the way she talks like I was telling you before Marcia Marcia is like a wake call sometimes she she's very straightforward in what she's saying and you say oh my god okay okay I Oh, I understand. And then she talks about the craziness that we already committed in our world when we think about the two world wars and the consequences of that and now everything that is happening in our world world and everything everyone you know the way that everyone is losing hope and and this and that. And so uh when we get into this state I think that somehow we try to hide from all of this with uh immediate compensations.

veryone you know the way that everyone is losing hope and and this and that. And so uh when we get into this state I think that somehow we try to hide from all of this with uh immediate compensations. Yes. And this is what you know I know it's not necessarily good to me but it's going to satisfy me momentarily. It's like you know when you are on a diet and then all of a sudden you eat a big dessert because you said somehow I need that. I deserve that. I need some compensation. I was a good girl and I mean there has to be some reward and things. I I lost three pounds so might as well get off the diet and and overdo, right? Because uh because we deserve Yeah. So it's that it's the starting point. So here uh the benefactors to the Angel invitation is for us to start making conscientious choices. Yeah. Right. So what is your your existential choices? What are you bringing to your life to your you know to this journey like you said this journey of the soul and it everything starts with how and where my values are and I know it is so hard for us to talk about it. Yeah. and and she she said something that uh it really uh in one of her books just that really spoke to me um in in in her writings she mentioned my words right before we learned to speak we reacted right before we understood we survived and yet even in our earliest instincts the seed of intellig intelligence was already present quietly guiding the long journey of human consciousness and and that really brings to me some of the the the work that uh Alan Cardc in the spirit's book or um Leon Deni speaks of of that as well that potentiality of the soul and uh while we we discuss and we envision I I can see in my mind's eye this this evolution of the soul of the spirit from very primal uh based on instincts right uh but we should not reject who we are uh we should understand that in the in this path we are learning and we should appreciate the learnings but yearn learn to do more and choose better. As you said, when we're

ould not reject who we are uh we should understand that in the in this path we are learning and we should appreciate the learnings but yearn learn to do more and choose better. As you said, when we're speaking of those existential choices, uh it's it's all about what are the choices that will feed will nourish my human consciousness, my expansion of that consciousness, my growth in spiritual speaking. Yeah. In one of her books, in search of the truth, you know, the name of the book already tells tell us everything. Yeah, it has everything to do with what we are talking about here is uh you know she she very emphatically talks about us paying attention to what we are to our choices what we are going to bring to our existence because like we were saying before I may feel you know immediate compensation or satisfaction with a certain habit or thing that I'm doing but it's not going to fulfill me in in in this sense when you think about you know uh like this uh passage that you were mentioning and how is completely completely in tune with what we learn in Ellen Cardock's book and Leon Dei and other books you know uh when we think about the spirit the creation of the spirit it is is basically you know thinking about a siege we are like a seed we have the germ the Latin germ to become everything you know the giant w oak oak oak tree but at the beginning that's why you know before we learn to speak there was you know reaction then there was surviving you know how am I going to survive in this sort of ambience or or or or or all of it it's sometimes I think uh since we are in the very early stages of this development as immortal spirits. We may think that know a lot that we are you know um great superdeveloped but uh not 30 years ago we didn't have this possibility of communicating with each other. Yes, we're moving fast. Technology is taking us to unimaginable places. you know, we use it to watch those science uh movies, cartoons and reading those science science comics and and we

h each other. Yes, we're moving fast. Technology is taking us to unimaginable places. you know, we use it to watch those science uh movies, cartoons and reading those science science comics and and we never dreamt that so many of the things that were written there or were presented to us today we have and much more and because of that I think you know we are achieving everything but we are forgetting like you say um this journey this quiet journey to the source of who we are and understanding why we are here. It doesn't mean that the experience has to be unpleasant that we have to be completely um uh guided only by spiritual because you know even when we meet those people that are 100% or I mean at least they try to to to be or they say they are they're boring they're they're not there yet. They they have a very diverse idea of uh what what what being is spiritual means, right? It's not lightning and incense or hearing some sounds. Of course, all of that helps. It can help us to concentrate to to have those special moments and it can make us feel very good. But everything comes from the inside because I have all this I may have all this up those apparatus near me and it's still my mind being it's not quiet at all. Right. It's it's going all all over the place. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Um it just reminds us all of us that our story and I I'm not say history I'm saying our story right is not just biological uh but it contains a deeply psychological and spiritual from the very early from the beginning of this journey and uh and leading to as you mentioned just to is, you know, the the the the the ability to now come to and this is beautiful uh thought from Joanna D'Angelus as well in the book that you referenced, right, where we we are dealing with the the rise of reason, right? And yeah, intelligence. But unfortunately uh as uh you mentioned with those um science fiction and futuristic portrayal uh that we've seen in our um you know days as as as children uh the Jetsons etc etc and

h, intelligence. But unfortunately uh as uh you mentioned with those um science fiction and futuristic portrayal uh that we've seen in our um you know days as as as children uh the Jetsons etc etc and we're like oh we're we're there we we are here right but uh as we got to to get closer and closer with the rise of reason and to an age of uh technological dominance. We also unfortunately and that's the the truth. We also got to a point that we're reaching an age of a disoriented individual individualism, right? And and so Josara, I I was wondering if you could um talk a little bit to me and to all of us who are here in this life um from a spiritist perspective, what does it truly mean to be intelligent? Right? And and with that uh the the second question that comes to my mind and what does it mean to be whole? And by whole, I'm talking about the favorite words by by Joanna, right? Uh in integrity, integral human being, the that uh that human being that displays a sense of planitude of wholeness. But anyways, what are your thoughts in terms of the concept that we should be attuned or better attuned to regarding intelligence and achieving wholeness versus only what's so apparent to us which is this highly highly evolved technologically speaking world that we live in where we are all disoriented, right? We don't know anymore what to do. We're distracted. We are unfocused. What we need to do? What are your thoughts? Like like we we mentioned at the beginning, it's it's not it's not easy to be human, right? I know. Um we we still are in the early stages and according to how what how we study in spirit and spirituality we we we understand that we we have this beginning right we are all created simple and unenlightened we are a blank slate so to say right we were going to be starting u uh to uh our our story and u and I mean it doesn't matter how many errors you have committed because you have you have time to to learn and to to make amendments and to you know to just uh pick yourself

to uh our our story and u and I mean it doesn't matter how many errors you have committed because you have you have time to to learn and to to make amendments and to you know to just uh pick yourself up and start continue doing uh things and and learning in this whole process but uh uh at the beginning like we say Um we said before we don't know that much and we are just starting now and I think we are really in this point in our society where we we already think that we have accomplished so much we have reached so much in terms of uh scientific improvement um the the the way of living the comforts for the material life but we we see that there is a Oh right there is an emptiness emptiness within ourselves. This is what Joanna talks in her book empty lives and then a full life. We are feeling this emptiness and because we still do not know better when we have not yet turned ourselves to to the spirit or to this process like you know young used to say that the path to individuation you know the journey between this transition and and between the ego the shadow that the self we because we we don't know that much yet we are looking uh for things that we think that like you said is they are important and urgent but they are not. So in my mind the the the lack of satisfaction that I have is because I would like to have a better car and um I I don't have it. So I will work hard. It's like you know the carrot in front of myself. I will work harder and I I'm going to be able to get that car and then you will buy the car and that emptiness is still there and then you think well it's not because of the car it's because of a vacation I need a vacation and then you have those dream vacations again we are not talking bad about any of that okay please go a new car your desert new car yes we're talking about is don't think that they are capable of gives you permanent satisfaction. Not nothing that is impermanent can give you any kind of permanence. And I think this is where when we turn ourselves into the

is don't think that they are capable of gives you permanent satisfaction. Not nothing that is impermanent can give you any kind of permanence. And I think this is where when we turn ourselves into the spiritual path, we will find this permanence which is uh acceptance which is um you know understanding of your role here on earth which is you know learning a bit more of uh humbleness and uh and so many things and and and and and achieving a bit more peace with what you are with yourselves and and and seeing that we are not here to compete with each other. I used to say to my to to tell myself quite often actually when I was young I used to look in the mirror and say remember that you are not the the the the only and you're not the best because there is only always people that are may have the same abilities or greatness that you have or even more and we are not here to compete because the living in society and this is what the angel emphasizes so much you know learning uh to live with each other being co codependent of you know you have a talent that I don't ha I don't have and and I need you to to feel completeness right and um and and this codependence that is actually healthy if we are not here to diminish the other that do not possess what we do because definitely they will have something that we do not have. So there is no point almost like a symbiotic relationship where I give and I get right but symbiotic. Yeah. And when we think about that there is a less motive for us uh in our ambitions to lead this competitiveness to the point of uh promoting wars or conflicts or or or things that definitely we are going to regret in the future. Even if we are talking a small scale that can be just you know how we we deal in our daily lives with our family members right there is always some uh you know struggle and conflict and that we are constantly promoting because of this or because of that and we are losing track of the spirit and even remembering that not being perfect. Yeah.

some uh you know struggle and conflict and that we are constantly promoting because of this or because of that and we are losing track of the spirit and even remembering that not being perfect. Yeah. that we are still on this journey that we are still going through this path of what are the choices that I I I'm I'm making for my life and what are the consequences that they are bringing to me and this is the big issue and the big issue in spiritism as well in the sense of you know reminding us and this is what the Angel is telling in this chapter that I mentioned about cause and fact. When are you going to stop and analyze the effects of what you are sending into the world? It's like a boomerang. Yeah. There is no way of you escaping the return of the boomerang. And then who's to blame? Society. Lack of opportunities. Uh which is normally what we do. Even God. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's very interesting. And uh in a in a very tongue andcheek way um there was a series I I think the name of the series was um the good life I think and and uh the um the good life series was about uh um the fact that after you die right uh you go to this place and it's very interesting because it's There is a humor very lighthearted and there's this whole battle of where are you? Are you in heaven? Are you in the good place right heaven or the bad place hell uh as we know and and there's uh awesome uh book for those who have not read Alan Cardak wrote I think uh it's actually in 2025 is it's uh 106 year 60 years of of publication heaven and hell and it's so good because it it brings to light um the the narrative that we've heard over and over again about punishment, about eternal damnation, about all of this. Um, and uh, and CARDC beautifully, masterfully tells us that is not so, right? But back to the the little uh series, um it uh it gets to a a very interesting almost plot twisting uh sense of everything you do, every choice just every single choice that you make has um a zillion consequences.

he the little uh series, um it uh it gets to a a very interesting almost plot twisting uh sense of everything you do, every choice just every single choice that you make has um a zillion consequences. And how are we intentional or not about our choices? And when we're just surviving in in a way, we're just living waking up and and surviving the days so that we can sleep and wake up again the next day. We're not aware, we're not conscious. uh those decisions may lead to very difficult um effects as based on the law of cause and effect. Right. Yeah. And and I think you know coming back to your question in terms of intelligence and wholeness. I was thinking that perhaps um this is my way of seeing it at this moment. Okay. I was thinking what is to be intelligent is to have the ability to reason and to choose what it is to be whole and then I would uh use the phrase and the teaching of Paul of Tarsus where he says you are entitled to to everything but not everything convenient to you. So when I know that and I act like that it means that I'm whole. I I have intelligence to decide but I already know how to distinguish what is going to bring me good and not only to myself but to the world because at this point we will understand that because of our connect connectness we will um you know in this interaction of each with each other there is no way that I can feel whole and happy and living bliss uh a blissful life. Uh knowing what is going on in the world or what is going on with other people. You know being whole may mean means you understand that you have a role in the world that is you know to prevent those things to happen that uh and these are the the the happiness that are going to remain with us. So, so far that's why sometimes people say I I'm engaged in social work and um nonprofit organizations. And it's quite often we hear people saying, you know, I came here to volunteer because I I I I was feeling so down or I had nothing to do and somehow I I needed to see people

nonprofit organizations. And it's quite often we hear people saying, you know, I came here to volunteer because I I I I was feeling so down or I had nothing to do and somehow I I needed to see people that were suffering more than I I had or or do something with my time. And then they say, "Oh my god, I I thought that I was going to be donating something, you know, with my time, with my disposition of doing things, but I'm receiving so much." Because it's such a fulfilling thing when you are giving yourself to others as well and and using your possibilities to make the world better. So if we need this kind of a reward that is going to be permanent, try to engage yourself many any social worker and any nonprofit and then there are so many so many so many that you you can choose from according to you know what you you you are more inclined to and and and what we are trying to do is the opposite. I'm I'm just trying to make my body happy and my body is going through a process of decay whether I like it or not. Yeah. And you come to my a point where we cannot stop it that not even with plastic surgery. I I well and and that's the whole idea of external intervention versus internal intervention and our body uh our bodies they they silently quietly do not allow you to lie right Josara it's it's all that we are as in our thoughts our imagination our um emotions, our uh words, our um efforts, our actions, all of it. It comes back into uh this this map of our body and uh it it is expressed there many times with some diseases regardless regardless of as many surgeries and anti-aging. In my case, I'm I'm I'm dealing with that. Jos, I confess I'm having a hard time with my gray hair and my wrinkles. It's like, oh no. And and yet we know this is who we are. Why is it so hard to to accept? And uh I I love the idea of that we're talking here which is if there is a cycle or many cycles of corporeal existence and knowing what's important, what's meaningful to invest our time versus what's not. Either because it's

of that we're talking here which is if there is a cycle or many cycles of corporeal existence and knowing what's important, what's meaningful to invest our time versus what's not. Either because it's just urgent, not important or because it's ephemeral in nature. it's based on uh sensations instead of uh uh spiritual growth. Then the question is with if the cycle it is to age and to fall ill sometimes is what we need to go through right a a moment to just just quiet all the noise outside and listen to to within and uh why is it so difficult Josada for us to to accept that and I think this is you know the wake have called you to one of the answers giving us in terms of uh trying to lead us to really find true happiness. Yeah. Even you know we we mentioned this the situation with you know the physical decay and plastic surgeon surgery and all of that. Sometimes you know we even see people that can do all of this and can afford all of this but at the same time you we look at themselves they are not they are not not happy they're their eyes have no they don't they don't shine there there is bitness bitterness in them and sometimes we see people that didn't go through any of this procedures but they they they they present themselves in a much healthier their way. Yeah. You know, and much more pleasant person for you to be next to or having a conversation. And so I think it's also a preparation like you said for those cycles of life because you come to a point that I you know um uh I may like to use different shoes or this or that but your fit not going to to fit in the standards any longer. You know, the the fit they're not going to to make better necessarily because it's it's a different stage in life. Yeah. But you know this this other thing that she's she's she's telling us look for the right things. Yeah. Pay attention and in your choices, right? What are you going you're going to bring everything that you're bringing to your existence or we could say existences because it

k for the right things. Yeah. Pay attention and in your choices, right? What are you going you're going to bring everything that you're bringing to your existence or we could say existences because it doesn't end our journey doesn't end now and you mentioned the heaven and hell in a and it is a much much smaller scale there is even a book that I published recently the transcendence life after death that it brings also some testimonies of the spirits is trying to wake us up in terms of saying listen, you know, to what kind of life I led and what I had to go through and now I'm okay, but I I really want to do something to prevent you to go to the same path. Right? So the voice of the spirits are here and I think we are being in different in in in different ways with different philosophies. We the world is little by little awakening. I don't have it here with me because I have a a horrible memory for names but just recently one of my colleagues at work in one of this nonprofit organizations. She had the opportunity of participating in um in a workshop that was promoted by Microsoft in Seattle. And one of the things that they were talking about was basically AI and one of the professors that was was giving a talk and actually it's not only this one, right? And um she transcribed some of the the the workshops and the the the talks that we had in they had in the workshop so that people could have a an understand what was going on. And then she this professor she mentions clearly how AI in a way will liberate us will give us more time for us to think and treat ourselves emotionally psychologically speaking. I love it. Yeah. Love the concept because everybody's in fear of artificial intelligence, right? ring her. I mean I I mean she said that in public so I I I can't repeat her name and it was recorded. So but I was reading that and I was flabbergasted because I said oh my god it's there are many more people and people in this area as well that is thinking about it how we can liberate us

as recorded. So but I was reading that and I was flabbergasted because I said oh my god it's there are many more people and people in this area as well that is thinking about it how we can liberate us so that we can finally have time to look within ourselves. And there is so much mental health problems going on right now, right? We have to address this journey, this journey to within, right? To think about ourselves as a spirit and to think about ourselves in, you know, what really is going to bring me happiness. We have the experience already. There is not a new car. It's not a new vacation because very soon they are not new anymore. The vacations were gone and it was a good experience. But it's in the past. I'm already thinking about the next one. So, but there are things that can really really fulfill our soul. And I I I think this this call from Joanna Dean is all about you know what can I do to fulfill my soul? Yeah. I love it. Where do I look for it? And the answer is look within yourself and um and yeah. So I just wanted to bring back what you said. Um um individualism, right? And and uh um the the question here is individualism is is really the child of materialism, right? Because somehow we are failing to understand individuation, the path to becoming that integral human being, individuated. And we we missed by well you know my individualism my space but it's often a an egoistic selfish um power hungry disconnected and I you mentioned that right um breeding loneliness out of this everlasting competition and when we are only thinking competition the thought that came to my mind is we we get to a point that we fear we fear intimacy and and I'm talking about not sexual intimacy but that intimacy of friends that can trust the other each other that the the intimacy professional intimacy for example where I am in a workplace and I don't have to look back because someone is trying to get my place right in this the rat race of a corporate uh world. But it is really um for us to understand

r example where I am in a workplace and I don't have to look back because someone is trying to get my place right in this the rat race of a corporate uh world. But it is really um for us to understand this is a mask of freedom because I can be myself. But really this cult of personal branding as an example uh which leads us to be a curated version of ourselves that we're always at the peak, right? We're we're always outperforming everybody and we we fail miserably to create a space to be who we are as that eternal spirit and uh to be authentic to express the truth without having to conform to the truth according to the world. Right? So to me, I this is a call for us to to really understand and and maybe referencing Joanna the angels again when she says the absence of a higher level leads to boredom, disinterest, loss of meaning in life. this apathy that goes back to I don't know nature right when he was saying that the man is dead there is no nothing there and we resuscitate if you will mankind with this illusion of mankind uh the illusion of being present because it is all hollow follow. It's all illusury. It's all based on um a material reference, not a spiritual reference. So, I think we we are in desperate need and thank you Joanna for the wakeup call, right? We're desperate desperately needing um that transcendent support uh that uh is part of uh the path back toward spiritual integration and meaning that is true that it arises from within that is a result of reflection. Uh you mentioned service right? uh this alignment that comes from self-discovery um it comes from also uh results from spiritual consciousness and uh I just wanted to know for all of us as we you know reaching the end of our talk today let us focus and try to remember a moment just a simple moment when we felt felt deeply connected to the transcendent to the divine, to the sacred, to something greater than yourself. Let us embrace right Josara the idea of humility so that we can then find true happiness in peace. I found I

ected to the transcendent to the divine, to the sacred, to something greater than yourself. Let us embrace right Josara the idea of humility so that we can then find true happiness in peace. I found I found her quotations Maria is Dr. Lorie Santos. She's a cognitive scientist and professor of Yo University and she says technology is not here to diminish our humanity. It is here to liberate it. In the age of AI our highest priority must be nurturing emotional well-being. And then you know she goes on and on. There is a part that she talks about ethics and empathetic uh how as being empathy as being uh as so important for us to to to have relationships and and urging all organizations including nonprofits to promote mental health and resilience, compassion, engagement in the world and saying that you know how important importance this, you know, again emphasizing the the importance of psychological resilience and and it's so amazing. Um, I love it. I I'm I'm deeply touched. I I I will reach out to you offline, right? So that you can tell me more. And it's so funny, right? Because you you you talk about it's Microsoft, this powerful um technological giant that once upon a time you have to remember uh I always remember when Gates uh as a younger man got you know he he was walking he had that pie in his face. People were so concerned about all that he represented. And as we know, Bill Gates then um disassociated himself from being the leader of that company to to absolutely spend the rest of his time giving back all the the the money that he amassed that the wealth to help help uh humanity. And I I think it's very funny because then the other arc of this story is that Microsoft is behind um you know copilot chat GBT and all the development of uh uh of AI. They're really focusing on that. And then we see this this workshop about hey everyone wake up to the real meaning of this new technological advance right saying we are in a technological area was everything everyone is going to be more

then we see this this workshop about hey everyone wake up to the real meaning of this new technological advance right saying we are in a technological area was everything everyone is going to be more like you know robotic and just concentrated in the AI etc they are talking about you know let's use all of this to uh improve improve mental health res psychological resilience uh compassion, empathy, ethics which is you know what we are lacking and I thought it was fantastic because you know it has nothing to do but it has everything to do with spirituality. you're not talking about this year but it's it's about the same subject and the goal is the same and this is what we are missing and this I think it's u a a a world and we we we have hope we we're getting there but we have Joanna thank you for the wakeup call but we got we got some hope in front of us I love it um Josada uh we are at the end of our time together. Do you have any parting comments to everyone? No, I guess just that let's uh just keep keep doing the good work, you know, believing in ourselves and and and okay, if you need some immediate satisfaction, keep this pleasure to yourself. But remember, this is not the one that is going to last. The one that is going to last is much more related to uh you know when you look inside and when and you look outside of yourself in order to give uh back to the world and to people that need our assistance. I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. And just for all of us who are here today, as a summary of some of the the the questions and and discussions, we we explored today in our episode, this quite tangled relationship between materialism, individualism, the loss of meaning and quite frankly the power of integrating psychology and spirituality. So with that uh I can uh speak on your behalf Josada when I say we invite all of us to reflect on our personal evolution the shadows we carry but also this incredibly uh strong inner light that we're called to awaken. So when when we we say this

Josada when I say we invite all of us to reflect on our personal evolution the shadows we carry but also this incredibly uh strong inner light that we're called to awaken. So when when we we say this uh we just wanted to um say we hear the wakeup call but we also hear the wakeup call. Um I hope this conversation inspired you to to make some reflections on your own journey. Until the next time, please stay curious, stay compassionate, resilient, peaceful, and keep striving for those deeper truths within. If by any chance this was your first time listening to our program, the psychology and spirituality talks are based on the works of Joanna D'Angelus. And uh we hope that you're able to perhaps uh juxtapose your own concepts on of spirituality and and psychology and gaining some insights. I want to thank you Josara deeply and I want to thank our sponsors Monsel Camu, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council and Ammy Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the Medical Spiritist Association. I hope you're back with us next week. So long, everyone.