Ep 4 - Psychology and Spirituality | The Pursuit of Reality - Pt 1

foreign hi everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Marcia trezano and to my side is that our co-host Jose is the Secretary General of the international spiritus Council former president and current Vice President of the United States spiritus Federation for the past 30 years josada has been volunteering as a counselor in fraternal conversations in several Spirit institutions as part of her outreach program if you want to know more about fraternal conversations please let us know but thank you thank you for joining us today this episode is brought to you by our friends at Ami Brazil an association of spiritist Health Professions Ami Brazil was founded in 1995 and if you're interested in learning more about this organization please do visit Umi Brazil spelled at a-m-e-b-r-a-s-i-l dot org dot BR that site is in Portuguese and has a lot of good information I want to also let you know that this program is sponsored by in addition to Umi Brazil by the United States spiritus Federation and the international spiritist Council we are here today to talk about the pursuit of reality what a great topic um I wanted to let you know before we get started if you haven't done so please do hit subscribe and uh do check out our other channels we can do that by going to uh spiritist.us site just started so good to be here with you to discuss uh this this great topic right the pursuit of reality which is all about this self-discovery the self-awareness yeah so let me first greet everyone it's great to be here again to be with you Marcia and for us to be doing this work in Psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life and the pursue of reality don't be afraid because we are talking about a good reality right and you will see in our discussions that we are not going to be talking about anything that can put us you know down or but we are going to talk about important tools for us to really take the best out of our Lives you know this

ussions that we are not going to be talking about anything that can put us you know down or but we are going to talk about important tools for us to really take the best out of our Lives you know this bridge to a better life so welcome everyone and let's go and start with our conversation today Marsha absolutely I want to to just tell everybody that there is so many good sources for for this topic specifically I would like to recommend two books both of them written by Joanna DeAngelis they are the integral human being and self-discovery an inner search I wanted to just uh remind if you uh were able to watch our last episode we discussed a little bit we just started talking about this idea of self-discovery and josada you mentioned right that we We Begin this this this journey of self-discovery often as a painful process it can really be but I wanted to to bring here the fact that I reference Joanna DeAngelis right that in her books she reminds us of oh such great contributions by scientist humanist interpersonal psychiatrist and psychologists and I want to tell everyone here some of the great names are for example Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and who is Kubla Ross well she's well well known for her work on death and dying right for me specifically and I use just that her work almost daily in my professional life which is the the acceptance curve that the Kubler-Ross introduced to the world and has been adopted all over the world uh in a different uh academic but also a professional corporate world right so it's about dying but it's also about uh letting go it's about acceptance and how difficult it is for all of us to let of something someone or our own sense of identity more about that later Joanna talks about the stanilov gruff as the founding member of transpersonal psychology another one that I know a lot about him well really many good books by Raymond Moody Jr who is a prolific right writer on near-death experiences uh Abraham maslov right he who is him oh if you went to school and you had to

w a lot about him well really many good books by Raymond Moody Jr who is a prolific right writer on near-death experiences uh Abraham maslov right he who is him oh if you went to school and you had to study psychology you had to study his hierarchy of needs and to me it just highlights our the fact that we have a material side and with those material very human animal nature we have those needs which he calls the lower needs right and then as the hierarchy needs are up we we step up to a more perhaps intellectual emotional and spiritual side and those bring a very different set of needs uh Charles start right he worked on Altered States Of Consciousness my favorites Victor Franco she he worked on um he found it right the concept of logotherapy and uh amazing book that I highly highly recommend to everyone to read which is men's search for meaning which talks about that transformational Journey that we all go through and how important is the concept of meaning finally Joanne introduced this is also Daniel Goldman and Daniel of course is super well known everywhere on the idea of emotional intelligence right when we talk we no longer can talk about IQ we also have to talk about that emotional intelligence EQ anyways those contributions have now become intertwined Incorporated integrated in all of society and many many other places where the notion of the Soul right as the basis of human phenomena is there very tangibly so any thoughts that you like to contribute before we move on to our conversation yeah I think the the point here is uh uh how so many different uh you know Scholars have come to the same conclusion which is uh the same thing that our work here based on the works of Joanna de Angeles is leading us to understand that they all converge to understand that there is more and then just our Flesh and Bones and the reason why we have to go through this journey of self-discovery you know this pursuit of reality in the sense of understanding who I am so uh from the

is more and then just our Flesh and Bones and the reason why we have to go through this journey of self-discovery you know this pursuit of reality in the sense of understanding who I am so uh from the moment I ask this question I I think we could say that um the answer would be how do you see yourself correct do you do you really you know see yourself you know there's as just another you know human being living among almost eight billion people the way we should see ourselves is you know this uh atom of life that have uh is started like a seed and is we are having all these opportunities to grow through our experiences to the possibilities there are before us in using all of this and all this understanding about immortality as well as the main point for us to focus and to really find motivation for our journey yeah beautiful I love what you said about that atom of light right not just another another among many but just that I I think you mentioned the idea that those extraordinary Scholars brought something that is what we're talking here right the the the notion of being more than this this flesh and and Bones right and can you maybe tell me a little bit you said about how spiritism and what I may call spiritism psychology right how those um themes were brought to us long before a certain scholar his name was Freud Sigmund Freud brought first brought to humanity can you tell us just to have a sense of a timeline of how far back spiritism does and how it is really intertwined it is not unknown to us and regardless whether you have any particular Faith or Notch we all have heard that uh you know the stories or or is part of our religious books or those religious books how there was this uh always this notion this idea of communication with beings that belong to a different realm so we went to the different formats from the the the Primitive way uh for worshiping the Sun the moon uh and giving attributes to the different gods as we can see the pantheon of God from Roman

realm so we went to the different formats from the the the Primitive way uh for worshiping the Sun the moon uh and giving attributes to the different gods as we can see the pantheon of God from Roman history from Greek history and even from from Egypt and other cultures so there was always this intrinsic idea that there is something else and that there is something that survives uh you know the the physical body of course up to this moment there are so many questions and so many theories and it's hard for any of us to come in a death note this is it this is the fact an ultimate answer to what we are but but like we we say the more um science as well and those uh scientific Minds those colors start um getting into in themselves involved in this Quest we see that they come from a lot of research and they are constantly changing improving and in terms of this spirituality so we we see like as I said in those uh books and even from um our concept in in the spirituality how the the the soul survives is actually the pregnant predominant idea uh in among all almost 90 percent of human beings on Earth so uh now we just have to start to learn or to try to understand how we move around this concept right yeah how to absorb right what does it mean to us so if we say that I'm going back to what you said and back to what you just said is what can we conclude about this meaning of life when we said uh what does it mean to us what does it mean to you what does it mean to I don't know ancient Greece ancient Rome or Egypt or today even in our next door neighbor what does it mean this this thing called life uh as you mentioned are we just a a agglutination of cells right under this nervous system controlling our our you know movements uh we just I don't know just that I would just connected by the genetic pulls from our parents which is all could be said right there's too many movies that we can refer to actually about this idea of a chance in heredity and if we believe that and maybe if you

he genetic pulls from our parents which is all could be said right there's too many movies that we can refer to actually about this idea of a chance in heredity and if we believe that and maybe if you think it's you know I think it's okay if you do but oh what a waste right billions of years to get to this moment and what I mean by that is right now you and I and all of you who are listening to us at this moment all this time are we just wasting or this is another step in this this journey that is a collective journey in an individual Journey are we just a happy accident or are we perhaps and I'm getting to a bit of taboo here right but are we perhaps a product of an intelligent design so in any case I just want to ask you what do you think um we should start to to grasp regarding that uh engineering and and that leads us to this moment of awareness of Consciousness right and how they perhaps josada once we we get to that concept of who we are and our Consciousness how does it encounter with a more materialistic concept of life the thing is to really applaud the efforts of all of those you you mentioned at the beginning knowing in in in lifting up the veil at least a little bit to show or to to move us away from this concept of reductionism we are just a mass of cell under the command of a nervous nervous systems all those things so and um obviously the idea here and this is why we are having this kind of uh you know uh conversations and we will uh we are happy that people were connecting with us is exactly to to bridge this um concepts of Science of the mind with the spiritual reality as well okay the thing is um when we try to to put everything under the banner of genetics um we cannot get the answers right I mean it's not us trying to say that science or genetics are not a fact yes they are okay they are as physical bodied the byproduct of you know those that have participated in our conception right right our conception but what no one can explains is why uh sometimes you know siblings in the same

re as physical bodied the byproduct of you know those that have participated in our conception right right our conception but what no one can explains is why uh sometimes you know siblings in the same home they are so different even in terms of their genetic inheritances and they'll say oh no that was a combination a different combination and that's that's why this got a you know this uh extra or do you know my it's not my field of experience you know that uh the other one doesn't get but why like you said it's just chance mm-hmm it was just a chance that um um we come with all the the possibilities intellectual possibilities Among The Sibling that perhaps doesn't have any and it was just you know like uh the the the the work of chance or or the uh or sarcasm from a higher mind I love it yeah what what what what a bad joke if the two of our siblings and why why one is this way and why one is the other it does not make sense right just out of yeah and we are not talking to here because we could explain how you know even though it seems that we belong to the same environment social environment still people can absorb things in the different in a different way my ex the experiences that will leave to me caused a certain impact to you didn't cause the same impact so this we understand but what about you know this physiology right talking about physiology and we see this uh you know some distinction so clear so I I think this should lead us to try to understand more and to to look for different uh answers we cannot look for the answers in the same place that we never got them right so now is when I I think in this is one of the things that our purpose here is to invite everyone to have an open mind to those concepts of your spirituality of it yeah yeah what if um this notch I mean to me this I could ever receive right I I don't want this to be just it I don't want you know me to just finishing this one Incarnation I want to have more possibilities I want to I love it I love it right

this I could ever receive right I I don't want this to be just it I don't want you know me to just finishing this one Incarnation I want to have more possibilities I want to I love it I love it right no no sorry Sergeant dropped but I love it I love that I said and no no no no no no no no no whatever no you talked about sarcasm whatever the the bad joke that you're playing this I don't accept this is this is a waste right as I mentioned before and and I think as as we we get to to grasp this idea of uh um a spiritual or spiritualist concept about being human right and uh if we also may be confront with some of the concepts that uh I don't know Freud Jung uh brought to us in the field of psychology we we are really confronted with spirituality and psychology this this profound View of Being Human right the profound view of a human being and of Being Human so so I really love that I I appreciate that tremendously um declare themselves to be skeptical today sure uh because there is Need for us to change the Paradigm yeah not just continue thinking the way we thought we before like you said with Freud uh it started this New Concept and others following and continuing following so it is for us to adapt and to see beyond what we are just seeing in the in the mural and this yeah first step for what we wanted to do here to to the self-discovery so the self-discovery an invitation for me as well to change my Paradigm you know not just okay I I'm not just it right I I I I I I I there is more therefore there is now there is after and now uh in in possession of this information how I'm going to move about in life and and it's a choice right how how are we gonna I love what you say by the way the the choice of how to move in that move that little four-letter word it can mean so much right our choice of of being um our choice of being Humane the choice of being gentle with a choice of being open and so and so forth so this is really beautiful beautiful thank you um what if you go back to the journey itself

ng um our choice of being Humane the choice of being gentle with a choice of being open and so and so forth so this is really beautiful beautiful thank you um what if you go back to the journey itself josara what are the things that maybe we can we can discuss here regarding um that idea that our lives or continue and we talk about from zero to whenever right the moment of birth and the the moment of death uh are there any time specific that we are perhaps more prone a more able to to to to look inside of us and I say that because as we know 2020 to 2000 and I'm saying 2022 right where uh the entire Globe uh we were faced with the notion of a pandemic and uh you went ups and lows in terms of how do you deal with the meaning of a something of virus that is a known in in how we are vulnerable etc etc and that in itself from a notion of the life cycle of humanity it is a moment to to push it towards this towards this inner Journey but if you think in terms of individually do you think there is a a time that pushes to to collect ourselves and look inwardly in in search for that self-awareness what are your thoughts yeah it's it's a I was uh having the the image of Elizabeth Cobra bras and I'm thinking about all the cycle right so now change the cycle the office acceptance to to ourselves and how we position ourselves in life right uh they are the the happy moments the moments of disappointment and the moments where we are in good health the moment that we are not in good health and we're continuing this cycle and you know conforming uh with everyone else is doing and accepting in a way that this is what life has to offer so here we reach a point that we say you know what I I don't I don't I I don't want it to accommodate in those uh what seems the natural stage of life okay I'm born I'm I grow a little bad I go to school then translate I go to college or I decided to work instead then I'm going to find a partner perhaps have children good job in you know take some vacations have some fun and

little bad I go to school then translate I go to college or I decided to work instead then I'm going to find a partner perhaps have children good job in you know take some vacations have some fun and then you know age is going to to be knocking at my door and then you know uh elderly life becomes a reality and now I'm expecting that and that's it it's not for us to break this this cycle somehow and not to accommodate to things that are happening to us if uh it to understand that it is our power to change things and we are not saying change for others we are talking about ourselves right conversation about self is not here to Marsha Discovery love it we are here to talk about ourselves and it no start knowing myself but you know while we are accommodate when things are not you know it's it's always in the same mode the habits the old habits die hard right yeah yeah that's the same contest um I I I I we may not feel that much adventures and uh we say okay this is this is what life has to offer and is is like that for everyone but there comes to a point that uh very much like children we are going to mature more and now we are talking about uh the the the the maturity of the being right and the maturity of the being will lead us to a personal anguish that will motivate us to journey into um a path or a quest of getting to understand better how things really are so in a way uh unfortunately this is how we have been electing for ourselves it doesn't have to be this way only things go bad we find we try to find a different way to do things you know it's at like that that phrase that we have we keep on doing the same thing expecting to have a different outcome it's not going to happen okay it is what we already know now when we get into a state of Desire Harmony or whether it's because of like you mentioned you know a global pandemic or because of uh uh a personal struggle that can be related to health to a professional life to our relationships different aspects of Our

it's because of like you mentioned you know a global pandemic or because of uh uh a personal struggle that can be related to health to a professional life to our relationships different aspects of Our Lives we will we start becoming more inquisitive and uh this is one of the things that can lead us to say no more I have to find a different path I have to come with different you know possibilities and and drive for for you know new ways of doing things or seeing things perhaps we have those blind spots right we have been going through life with blind spots not necessarily appreciating everything appreciating this experiences even when they can be little harsh right yes yes and I I wanted to I don't know if I if I we have time I think we do I wanted to um maybe talk a couple of things right number one on josada is and I'm gonna try to do with my hands here so my I mean this is a impromptu attempt here so if you're thinking into a a triangle and two to the left is this means the beginning of our lives right so zero and to the right is the end and um and this is really cool if you start to think about in relation to Are we more prone or not but is the fact that from the beginning of our lives today this Apex right the summit of this incline um we as humans from a personality perspective as we know we are developing our personas which is really how uh in under the command of the ego we meet the demands of our external life in the demands is they're expressed differently in your reality uh josada you live in New York right very different reality than uh uh my life here in Nashville but even if you start thinking about our birth and our education uh what it is to be born a woman now versus uh so many decades ago or or a hundred years ago right what does it mean from the context and how to meet the demands of that external life and the notion of success and we get all the way up to meet what we now find is not authentic and that's that proverbial midlife crisis when we fall and it hurts jusada

e demands of that external life and the notion of success and we get all the way up to meet what we now find is not authentic and that's that proverbial midlife crisis when we fall and it hurts jusada it is painful it is so difficult to Now find out that this Persona that I create which is an illusion it's really what I thought I needed to be to be successful in in certain ways you mentioned that right and we find that it's really Hollow it's not we are so the process of um self-discovery self-awareness this inner Journey that we talk here it's really The Descent from this Apex when we try to look for ourselves our deep self which really means is a journey toward individuation but it's a journey that utilizes no longer the demands of the external life but it's about the demands of becoming that authentic self and I love that this model by the way it really makes me think about the crisis that fall that you mentioned jasada it could be pandemic it could be a person's struggle it can be I don't know any reversal Fortune losing your job losing your uh the place that you live because of some the crisis in the mortgage Market the finance Market or or whatever there's so many things that come and just takes us from what we thought was that Apex success we got to it and it's not because success really means all the way down toward our true Humanity our true sense of self just the thought uh for us to to dissolve here I don't know if you want to talk a little bit more about it yeah but you see a varsal the way I see it it was great so the the pyramid right yes yes yes or the triangle uh this part doesn't exist yeah the beginning doesn't exist yes if I'm thinking about reality um in the in terms of my material body what I'm thinking about is just from a material perspective life and because in terms of the Mind in terms of the possibility of the being of the spirit that is only essential yes yes so there may be decline in our physical bodies Even in our possibilities of um you know manifesting ours ourselves

in terms of the possibility of the being of the spirit that is only essential yes yes so there may be decline in our physical bodies Even in our possibilities of um you know manifesting ours ourselves because then then you know the um the old age may impact the way we communicate Etc but this is like you said it's not it does not represent the individual doesn't represent who I am so it's so when we are talking about the pursuit of reality again is changing this Paradigm of thinking like this straightforward I mean it's uh and and this is what we've been doing you know our cycle of acceptance here it's a triangle right okay I reach my Prime and then is is just Decay from this point on and it's but in terms of the Mind in terms of the possibility and we are we are being capable of seeing that today because uh today that people can live up to you know old age which didn't happen before or how they uh you know the elderly or lay boating Society we they can have their their minds so sharp and still contributing maybe not much that the machine the body but the mind is there they are sharp they can still uh do uh so many so many things so I really like to think as myself you know pathway and uh and and this is the process of self-discovery and before I I I I used to think that there are limitations yes right there are limitations um in terms of age in terms of uh you know gender in terms in terms of ethnicity in terms of you know how correct in my body presents is it itself or the possibilities that my physical body will have but now I see myself completely different from this perspective and this is the first step and sometimes like you asked it before it's only a difficult trial that I'm going to you know uh to show us how resilient we can become yes and how uh we can come up with new ideas or new Solutions and if we just keep their accommodated I mean uh then uh maybe we will not get the most out of this opportunity that we are having absolutely and uh and we think uh there's a book

eas or new Solutions and if we just keep their accommodated I mean uh then uh maybe we will not get the most out of this opportunity that we are having absolutely and uh and we think uh there's a book that uh that I read long time ago it's it's not a psychological book or a spiritual book but it's it's just a book a sociological study uh specifically about uh North America and the US and the title of the book was the culture of complaint right and it's very interesting because forget the book the content but the title brings us to the sense of discomfort right the discomfort whatever they may be uh leads to complain but that look why do I feel this discomfort can lead to to that sense of self-awareness right and and to understand I I I am being pushed toward my my self-discovery for whatever external uh factor that is leading to that sense of I got to complain and uh and it's it's important like you said I just had a really uh important to me and that's why I you know regurgitating a little bit but in this process uh we also find that the status quo is no longer good enough right it's unacceptable and it's really the springboard perhaps for us us to look into the mechanism that will Propel us to our own self-discovery and when we do this it's all about oh my goodness going back to the to Jesus teachings right with the parable the talents or awareness of the potentiality that we have and if we don't really work with those we end up potentially um like the parable really hurting ourselves right we we escape our who we are we don't confront ourselves we we may even um as we see in these books that I mentioned earlier uh that uh Joanna D'Angelo's wrote it's it's potential for if we don't take the time to to look at what is what are the reasons for a sense of discomfort we may lead to I don't want to see it therefore I'm going to use x to escape from the reality and X can be oh I don't know addictions right this self-destructive paths or uh working too hard or uh I don't know uh any type of thing

see it therefore I'm going to use x to escape from the reality and X can be oh I don't know addictions right this self-destructive paths or uh working too hard or uh I don't know uh any type of thing that can distract us this is a great distraction right there's this little device I can use it because I prefer to look at whatever this is the source of distraction than to to Really confronting my true feelings but I love that idea that through that and I I I have to say it not easy often painful process to look at yourself in the mirror right we become aware of one our talents our potentialities but also our resilience toward things that make us falter make us fall so what are your thoughts yeah the reason why you know uh we cannot accommodate and we um it's it's very easy when we accommodate to the situations uh we and do we normally have a tendency to complain right about life complaining about the cart I was adult right explain about if I have a belief about you know God or any other name that you wanted to to give to uh or you address God to you know so and this is where this journey right that has to start and it's it's um it's not uh such an easy one uh Beginnings are always hard right all of you that has already started that you know uh Gene program or a diet program uh you know how hard it is for us to start until you get more motivated and see the results and see how good it's doing to us so it's the same thing with time we thought we allow ourselves to get into this journey and with time we will see how important it is and I I would like to to to finish our conversation today March exactly coaching or one thing that uh the Joanna de angelis tells in this book self-discovery and and for all of those that do not have the the books by Joanna DeAngelis um please look at Leal publisher.org for for for the books they are really intriguing enlightening and important follow all those that want to get to know themselves better and social says the following a spark it starts a

publisher.org for for for the books they are really intriguing enlightening and important follow all those that want to get to know themselves better and social says the following a spark it starts a fire a bean of light open a gap Into Darkness a drop of balm softens affliction a word of knowledge guides life a gesture of Love Inspire hope and give space so going into us a process of pursuing our reality of self-discovery is a gesture of Love towards ourselves and we'll definitely Inspire us more hope and we will lead us to feel more peace so uh I would like to um continue this conversation because I I think there's so much we still can talk about uh the the spiritual of reality and the self-discovery and so I give to you Marshall too so let's do it let's let's come back to this at the next episode when we talk a little bit more about the pursuit of reality there's so many layers righteous there's so many items that it's good to put our fingers into it we talked about many many contributors to to this thought process uh Beyond Joanna DeAngelis Beyond um Alan cardek and the entire body of work contained by spirit in the the the the work of spiritism we we talked about oh uh Kublai Ross a couple of times Victor Frankel Daniel Goldman uh maslov and so on so forth and this is just right the A Drop in the Ocean of all the the discussions that we can get into it but today for now we're gonna say goodbye and hope to see you in the next chapter when we'll continue you this conversation bye everyone bye everyone foreign