Ep 3 - Psychology and Spirituality | Hindrances to Positivity

foreign welcome to this psychology and spirituality a bridge for to a better life this is a discussion that I'm so excited to be your host today my name is Marcia trejano and with me is my co-host josada I just want to go ahead and introduce you okay just Sarah is the Secretary General of the international spiritus Council she's the former president and current Vice President of the United States spiritus Federation I want to thank you all of you who are here listening to us today's episode of our series of discussions psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life is brought to you by our friends at mansion that is the social arm of the spirit Center come near the head in cell in Salvador Brazil Kami was founded 70 yes 70. 70 years ago in 1952 by the speaker an amazing person devaldo Franco and his cousin Nielsen de Souza Pereira but if you're interested in learning more about this amazing organization please visit mansondo camille.com.vr the psychology and spirituality program is also sponsored by Omni Brazil United States spiritus Federation and the international spiritus Council make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't done so already and if you'd like to check out any other channels please check us out at spiritist.us but gotta go back to yoursusada thank you so much for being here and it is so so good to to be here today with you to discuss a topic right hindrance to positivity if you are interested to know more about the subject I highly recommend you two books written by Joanna DeAngelis they are alert and integral human being let's go ahead and get started from the beginning okay when we talk about hindrance which if I think about what is hindrance well anything that is an obstacle right so a hindrance to a positive outlook in life we're confronted with the idea of apathy what I mean by that is when you when I or anyone out there who's listening to us may be in a state of mind that you just lost any interest in life when Ah that's you lose it possessed enthusiasm

pathy what I mean by that is when you when I or anyone out there who's listening to us may be in a state of mind that you just lost any interest in life when Ah that's you lose it possessed enthusiasm or as the French say the joie de vivre with that loss of Interest I believe we lose something else right which is the loss of uh or interest in awareness of others of ourselves uh we're not concerned any longer it's almost like we're losing ourselves in the process social can you talk a little bit maybe about why do you think apathy or that uh that uh indifference to life is an obstacle for you to live a good life what do you think okay so but first let me say hi to you Marcia hello everyone that is connecting with us we are very very happy with this opportunity of uh you know having this uh program of psychology and spirituality and I think we all have a lot to gain gain from it we are all looking for a better way of living right and and this topic that you mentioned that we find in the books the first one of the Angel is it it's so important for us today because uh everyone is feeling so much pressure right I mean sometimes it's it seems that we are struggling and that life is requiring so much from us and um and at the same time one of the points when we think about the hindrances to positivity is um when we we kind of um start not believing in our possibilities right because it seems that regardless of the efforts that we are uh doing nothing really works the way we would like to be seen happening in our lives and and the thing is um when we start having this kind of relationship with life you know it's this is going to be very conducive to us um not even thinking about trying anymore yeah and uh it's you know when we we think why should I keep you know doing that I I don't see things happening coming in my way without realizing that we are sabotaging Our Lives ourselves in the process because the activity of my thoughts are going to to represent a tremendous impact because I

hings happening coming in my way without realizing that we are sabotaging Our Lives ourselves in the process because the activity of my thoughts are going to to represent a tremendous impact because I will even lack energy don't you say so I mean yeah and and if I think about it right we talk about the loss of Interest I I can use the word possess right you just you lose that what makes you you you you just breathing you but you're not living so that uh that point counter point of apathy and we're we think as a hinders to a positive life we're actually saying hindrance to life right to life to living life because you just start to to remove yourself you're not there and I I keep thinking if I go back to to the term um the opposite of somebody who's apathetic is somebody who's actually passionate right and in that passion you can go into a a difficult component which is oh violent aggressive but you can also have something very interesting which is the and this is me josara okay it's a impulsive right there is something coming on and like oh it's it's that impulsive response and having Point Counterpoint which I love by the way uh when we we study we read the books by Joanna DeAngelis she always brings that right Point Counterpoint so Point empathy bad Counterpoint uh too much passion also bad and and we have to think if you don't stop to take stalk at things it may lead to some crazy consequence don't you think and I before I get back to you yeah so let me just tell you a little something very personal uh you and I um live in the US but both of us were born in Brazil well Brazilians have that reputation of being too passionate that's that's how I've been seen in living in this country for the majority of my life and I understand that as maybe a caricature of a people which would we don't want to go back but I learn that one or the other is really not good so learning to to balance that impulsive nature to a more controlled one but control does not mean indifference can we talk a little bit

to go back but I learn that one or the other is really not good so learning to to balance that impulsive nature to a more controlled one but control does not mean indifference can we talk a little bit more about it what are your thoughts yeah that's uh that is that's quite interesting but before we go to that yeah one of the comments that you mentioned about you know uh the the interest the you know life is action and how we should be really you know trying and doing things uh an example came to my mind I I was thinking about Thomas Edison and when you talk when you said about being passionate about something so we can say that Thomas Edison was passionate about what he was doing he didn't know what the result the outcome would be yeah but he I'm trying even with so many failures uh according to how he described it right yes the the result he was expecting so many times and then when people would go to him and try to say why are you still keep on doing that why do you have to go through this way so if you have a passion I mean is exactly in this sense not in an imbalanced way as you said but it is in the sense of you know this is what you want what you want to pursue and and you have something and there is something in your gut that tells you that you know I'm in the right right and we have to be to become change makers right so everyone that it has been a change maker is exactly because of that because they they did not surrender to this apathy of saying I cannot do uh I will give up and and this is what we are talking about and and how this can impact our mindset since we are talking about psychology here as well you know how much like I said in the beginning we can sabotage ourselves because the reverse of the positive thinking it's me now thinking I cannot do everything that I try it doesn't work it's better if I give up it's better if I just live uh like you know a very uh boring kind of life you know very well structured but but here in a low level not uh giving yourself to any kind

n't work it's better if I give up it's better if I just live uh like you know a very uh boring kind of life you know very well structured but but here in a low level not uh giving yourself to any kind of Adventure so to say and this is as one of the Angelic tells in this book to learn is what I think is is very important because she says you know life is action so if I stay just you know come in the state of contentment yeah I I will never reach this uh it really a state of happiness that we can achieve here yeah and uh I love what you're saying yeah I love it right so we're talking about apathy and we talked about combating this this negativity that comes from I don't know this sense of being aloof to be distanced and to not be concerned with ourselves or anything you just breathe but you don't really live right you you sustain life as veg in a vegetative state if you will because you're not working with life and love what you said right life is action action is movement what are we doing what are efforts what are we striving what our goals our dreams and this is great when we talk about it because um as as we think in terms of our our material lives and I I want to uh go back to that point Counterpoint right we live here in the west specifically in the U.S as what as a capitalist individualistic Society consumer Society a lot of competition for us to survive we need to to have that zest for life this is not an apology for egocentric or selfish behavior by any means but it is the environment this is the context by which we live today and I I can say for the past two three years when we talk about the pandemics uh that uh you know covid-19 that came to us and it changed everything that we've done and how we dealt with life it led us in a very interesting way to to go back to a sense of self to understand what is it I want to life uh that that pause that inner Discovery does not mean you're apathetic and I think that's what maybe we can talk about life is action life requires players effort right life

what is it I want to life uh that that pause that inner Discovery does not mean you're apathetic and I think that's what maybe we can talk about life is action life requires players effort right life requires you to challenge to confront maybe your own fears what you haven't done before uh if you do that in a way that means that you you have to go through this inner journey to understand what do I really want it it means that you're concerned that you want that you desire to grow I don't know those are my thoughts uh when we when we think in terms of what is life it's very important what you're saying and again emphasizing the change makers because I I think it's important for us to to highlight this a year um all the progress that we are having uh doesn't necessarily is a company accompanied by any kind of ethical moral Spiritual Development and um when we are in this transition like you say I we start this inner search look around and the majority that surrounds you not necessarily are searching for the same uh yeah that you are yes so it becomes easy uh sometimes for us just to collect ourselves and uh it starts like like I was I was saying before uh avoiding start avoiding you know more social contacts or being very careful and at the same time you you don't you don't feel that ignorant eagerness like many people do for this um so competitive market world that we live now and not necessarily that we don't you don't want to do anything about it or pursue this Avenue uh you know more spiritual more understanding about things but it's it seems a very lonely path yes and it's not uh difficult for people who begin to go through this journey and this is why you know this self-discovery and the the reason that we are doing all those episodes that we hope you are going to be following with us about psychology and spirituality uh um as as a bridge to a better life because we cannot go through this journey without thinking about ourselves and sometimes although we are talking here

ng with us about psychology and spirituality uh um as as a bridge to a better life because we cannot go through this journey without thinking about ourselves and sometimes although we are talking here about uh the negative aspect of this collecting yourself or of becoming indifferent or being you know if if you ask at me it worked a single word that could perhaps summarize what of being a pathetic means I would say the word would be whatever you know expression a lot right whatever yeah but yeah this is a typical answer from a person that is more in the state of numbness you say what do you want whatever you want to go out whatever you know what you think about them whatever it is it is right and and I think it's important perhaps for us to to really take stock of it right uh I come back with points and counterpoints it's important for us not to to to to take you know to to to take stock at what we're talking about in the nuanced uh impacts of apathy versus too much aggression but uh then when we talk about I love it the whatever what is what is it that whatever is I don't care I just don't care which to me leads to that the question of selfishness it's when you're in in this cell such a self-centered uh view of yourself in the world that you don't care you don't care about the pain that somebody else is going through uh you don't care about the I don't know I'm just thinking about here the environment you just don't care and the disastrous consequences when you go when you get into that very that uh way of living that is so apathetic is what depression right josada it's it's uh being slaved being paralyzed to that whatever attitude and I think it's important for us to to recognize maybe we all been we have all been there what can we do to change that is there a tip that we can talk about it perhaps how can we get out of this whatever right I I I think you know that this is a journey that I probably all of my are dealing with as well in one way or another or it will be more aggravated than to than

ow can we get out of this whatever right I I I think you know that this is a journey that I probably all of my are dealing with as well in one way or another or it will be more aggravated than to than to others but um I think in in several occasions of our life we we will have this questioning uh about you know our F our journey uh am I doing the right stuff it isn't better if I just uh you know uh accommodate and not have uh great dreams or not or you know just going horse on Wales 1984 right you know living in this world machines everyone behaves the same and sometimes because we are doing that because and we still live in an old moral uh values world right and we want to break from that and it's not easy this journey and um and when we start ignoring even ourselves and our you know our desires in the sense it starts with us to this path of whatever it doesn't matter what I do it's it's not going to happen and I'm not going to change the world right I I was was thinking about a little um story that I heard about the the famous um in median Chico savior when a journalist came to him and he he was talking I I think about uh you know what is in the in the importance of hygiene if uh and he said you know have you taken a bath today you know everyone doing that we are talking about eye hygiene yeah and remember that story about the the star the Stars starfish right uh and you know walking along a beach and he's he's collecting starfish and throwing it back to the Sea and then someone looks at it and say look this is a big well you you're you know you're not going to be able to save them all and if that well but I made a difference for this one so now exactly difference to ourselves and when you talk about selfishness this is a huge problem because in order to protect to what we think is protecting us you know if I become oblivious about what is happening in the world because you know to protect myself yes I I'm not allowing myself to grow because we are here living you know in a

k is protecting us you know if I become oblivious about what is happening in the world because you know to protect myself yes I I'm not allowing myself to grow because we are here living you know in a net uh whether we we we understand that or not we are all connected and uh from the moment I try to isolate myself and just think for myself and about my own interests even if I I put my expectations to a very low level uh I'm I'm kind of destroying my possibilities and this is going to lead me to the the process stage that becomes as you know first as apathy as we were talking or living that life of a routine and leaving that with a few you know going out partying here or there a few relationships I'm okay with life and and not optimizing your possibilities can I can I add a little component uh so you and I right we you and I believe in that premise that we are Immortal Souls and that changes everything right when you know that that there's Life After Life After Life when we put that's the concept of spirituality into what life is then it changes a little bit because I think you brought up something very very important if you don't mind me bringing it up again is the fact that uh apathy can be born out of living a life that is routine right so I wake up I take a shower speaking of hygiene take a shower go to to my office my work whatever that my my source of income is I come back home I go to sleep and rinse and repeat right we do that over and over again and and we we lose our thread why are we doing this isn't it better to just again to go back to the whatever right not not think about it anymore not worry because it's hot Groundhog Day right yeah right yes the sense of um repeating ourselves which can lead to that indifference of life and negativity Etc uh once you put the lens of immortality or growth as Immortal Souls then it changes everything at least in my mind it does change because now we come to terms with not so much what or how we're doing but why why am I here

ens of immortality or growth as Immortal Souls then it changes everything at least in my mind it does change because now we come to terms with not so much what or how we're doing but why why am I here why am I living why why why what is the context by which you and I and all of you who is listening to to to this uh discussion here today it it changes but it's Unique but it changes it's very individualistic for each and everyone's Journey so the question then becomes the reason why we're here is indeed to reach a state of Happiness right it's uh yeah I think you gave a perfect answer for you know uh what would be one of the hindrances for our positivity in this case also reaching a state of happy which is uh having a more materialistic view of ourselves so if I think it's just uh here and now all right I have to take the best out of life in this minute right uh and um as we see uh happening all around you life is not easy right everyone is caring the burden and and we we start questioning why we are doing that like you said and not having a more spiritual approach to life uh and thinking or feeling yourself impotent to to solve this dilemma right we are going to to do like you know the oyster I'm going to close myself and correct yes there I don't want it to to take an adventure but but by saying that and also with all the pressures that we have in the world so um we think what is the point you know wake up uh work and repeat reason repeat right yes yes yes all the time right it's um it it becomes very oppressive as well and and this competitiveness that we have in the world I I was thinking about one phrase from from Freud that I like very much when he says that we are made of flesh but we must live as if we were off iron so this is not what we're trying to save here not just you know um putting a Persona up and going and show ourselves the way we expect the world is going to accept us not war is is me somehow believing in myself and believing in those premises bringing

st you know um putting a Persona up and going and show ourselves the way we expect the world is going to accept us not war is is me somehow believing in myself and believing in those premises bringing something different to the world so bringing something different to that equation have you thought about this possibility um so let's yeah sorry to interrupt no I was going to say let's wrap it up because I want to ask you something completely different okay related okay so let's wrap it up so what we talked about the hindrances to to living in the moment or having a mindful uh life as many people would call it is perhaps that materialistic view of ourselves and and uh if I heard you correctly josada you talked about uh we're not uh denying the fact that we have our pain points we have our burden right each each and every one of us all those what is it eight billion plus people who live in today in this planet we are all carrying some source of pain some Challenge and uh uh it's something that we cannot deny but what we're talking about here is the decision to either the oyster right closing oneself because life is that endless repetitive routine of waking up working going back to sleep waking up again which is one approach and the other approach is even beyond that is whatever I don't care I'm going to sustain life from a very self-centered way of looking however that means so that I can get to the end of my days in in a way that is less um difficult we do know that is Immortal Souls that we are we are here to learn to grow to be happy to learn about ourselves to to to understand the interconnectedness right or just you mentioned that we we this is we're so connected it's amazing we we live in this ecosystem called life right the planet Earth this life that we're living and uh carrying right being interest really means that we are I I can call it this is my term here we are on hyperdrive right we are uh accelerating our growth because every time I care about you I am exercising empathy

ht being interest really means that we are I I can call it this is my term here we are on hyperdrive right we are uh accelerating our growth because every time I care about you I am exercising empathy and I am leaving the world of a self completely self-centered life into a life of growth and uh and growing together and serving the other loving the other as as the the result so love is life right Life Is Love love is life so I think it's very important for us to understand life does not mean easy peasy stay home do nothing life is action right it it is challenging it requires you to get up and go and solve I love what you said before josada uh that as change makers we need to look in the uh the life with different eyes right different set of perspective how can I be a change maker how can I make this that whatever this is better than what was before I came to be any final thoughts yeah yeah I would like to add that um I I don't know exactly whether this is true or not um many years ago you know I I heard one story about Stephen Hawkings the physicist yeah and he was diagnosed with his um his health problem uh he was very young and he was not giving an optimistic outcome or you know uh diagnosis uh probably he would last about two years or so and the story that I read that I haven't checked but in any case it serves to illustrate us what we are talking about here in terms of you know us um even when it's struggling when we give us ourselves to others and we don't think just about ourselves and become this self-centered person and and the The Story Goes that he decided because at that point he was already a brilliant student already attending diversity to dedicate his life to others he said well now I I have two options I can he contemplated a suicide or that well if I'm going to have just this few years I'm going to make a difference in the life the life I love it yeah that I have and then his few years became decades and um so like I said I I I I don't I don't know but exactly if this is true or not

I'm going to make a difference in the life the life I love it yeah that I have and then his few years became decades and um so like I said I I I I don't I don't know but exactly if this is true or not but I remember that when I read it seemed to be from a respectable source and it this who are always inspired me because I'm sure there are so many people in in this way I mean even when they think about mother theory is okay I just have one bread I don't have many to distribute but I will share what I have it's a different view of life and um I I also remembering that phrase from Chicago Dave years when he's he said when life is is is too hard you're too sad go and take care of the sadness of others and your sadness are going to be coming less important I mean it's not that they are not going to be there but there are things that we can do that will bring to us and I think the French know what they do what they say some languages that they just have the perfect words to describe you know Joy of living and and uh and look at every day as a new opportunity okay yeah today what do I have in my schedule same thing but I I could take a different coach I'm going to enjoy being able to still be be capable of doing those things because you know age comes problems happen and so routine sometimes is very good like we have the same right no news is good news right yes yes yeah so that's what I I love it and and and then um because I I want to to spend a little bit more time on a similar topic if you don't mind but uh love what you said right as as uh shiku Xavier is a very famous mention as you mentioned uh medium from Brazil when he he talks about it get out get out of yourself don't be that oyster that closes on yourself I know we know you're suffering but just look at the others who are suffering and just it's a magic thing right once you you you change that perspective your pain becomes lesser than what was before and you become you start to heal yourself you become able to live that better life just by by

a magic thing right once you you you change that perspective your pain becomes lesser than what was before and you become you start to heal yourself you become able to live that better life just by by choosing a different Optics but let's go ahead and speaking of changing the Optics let's talk about something completely different but so similar because it's something that we live with every day so josada I'm going to talk about I don't know if you can see this little thing here all right this is this is an example a very small example of how our lives have changed I'm talking about collectively speaking um have changed and I would say have changed in the past two years have changed the past 10 years and it it the curve right about 100 years 150 years ago to what we have now we are exponentially more uh dependent on technology what is the impact of that intertwining of our lives with technology and some examples just so we can start thinking can be artificial intelligence right it can be uh the omnipresence of uh mobile devices wherever you go you take with you even to bed even to places that you shouldn't take it you know there goes with you and the that only presence of that technology that internet and the the connectivity right we talk about the I iot right uh Internet of Things where things talk to each other cars drive themselves and they know how to react before you even react so on so forth this is very powerful stuff that is at our fingertips how has that impacted our lives do you want to take a step at talking about it yeah sure Marsha I I was thinking that everything depends on how we approach it okay um and so let's talk about the you know our mobile device yes yeah yeah yeah just uh as one example of the the this technological advancement uh it wonderful um and but sometimes it can be too overwhelming we have to remember that a couple centuries before a regular person an ordinary person uh would have a very near little knowledge of things and mostly about the The Village they

an be too overwhelming we have to remember that a couple centuries before a regular person an ordinary person uh would have a very near little knowledge of things and mostly about the The Village they they've been and um it it says uh one of the things that say that today if you read one newspaper you read more and then you know uh uh a a human being from not so many centuries ago exposed their entire life yes yes we have to understand that the the this all this uh technological advancements they came they come to serve us to make our lives better so it's to make our lives better and not to make us uh addict to them yeah and or say sometimes in is an addiction right we go to places uh uh uh I remember sometimes I'm in at the doctor and I'm there talking to the receptionist and then the phone rings and she has to answer the phone and sometimes sometimes I'll do it you know what I wanted to because I'm here in person and the other person is not or how you know sometimes you go to have a good time and having dinner with friends and the friends are just checking their phones and so it's a matter of you know having balance and another setback that I think it's and it has everything to do with what we are talking about here is uh like I said at the beginning depending depend on how I look at it how I I understand because sometimes we see people saying oh when I go to you know um to Instagram Tick Tock Facebook you know it seems that everyone is living is living the life and just my life is miserable yes yes wow I'm going to to look in a different way I mean I don't want to share Sadness the world do not want to know about my sadness because everyone you know is having a lot on their own but when I look at this I instead of feeling envious and saying life is boring it seems that only those people are having the best time of my life and this is what made me it let's meet you happy to depression to you know to Justice stay in my shell I'm gonna say well good for them that they are

y those people are having the best time of my life and this is what made me it let's meet you happy to depression to you know to Justice stay in my shell I'm gonna say well good for them that they are having a break and they're well in their lives it's going to happen to me as well this is taking a positive attitude right and there are some people don't like to share everything and then so I I I I'm I'm never going to criticize progress I think progress is here as a blessing a gift from God and we just have to understand how to balance that how much is is is is really working uh to become something good for us and how much I'm becoming a slave of Technology yes right so so the sense of imprisonment right uh and I think it this topic goes well with with this whole discussion because it's all about hindrance to living a positive life right to positivity and anything can become that hindrance but uh we need to check us ourselves to check us in terms of uh how do I show up right uh mentioned um it's it's how I see things um in terms of technology completely agree with you we often right we we often make jokes of uh uh the times that we wanted to kill a fax machine back in the day where printer still back in the day right like oh work it doesn't work and we get all crazy when technology fails us technologist is a tool to make our lives better so that position that brings to us is to see how is it how is it making our lives better right uh access to um information to data points love when you said I'm talking about Steve Hawkins and I listen or read the story from a reputable Source I did not check it so listen to me with a grain of assault I love it because that too is how do I see things how do I access information how do I filter it from what does it mean to me is it even verifiable or or truthful or even important to me to understand that piece of information but access to information access to technology all of it is because we deserve this is my opinion we deserve a better life

r or truthful or even important to me to understand that piece of information but access to information access to technology all of it is because we deserve this is my opinion we deserve a better life and deserving a better life puts us back and I think we have uh less than five minutes so let's go ahead and wrap it up um deserving a better life goes back to the promise from our creator right that promise of love of mercy of caring of a life that if you think again uh to ask ourselves why am I here and when the burden is too much reference to Steve Hawkins right with a a terrible disease do you want to end this life or do you want to make this life a life of serving and those are the decisions that we have to make but to me I end our discussion today with this this call to action to all of us let us look at to look at our thought processes look at our filters look at the way we deal react to things to crisis to pain points to Joy and let us see how are we choosing to live a life of positivity yeah and one thing that I was thinking I don't even want to check if the story is true firing the universe right so many years and so but uh yeah because I'm sure there is someone in the world that that took that decision I mean there are so many thinking about Albert Schweitzer right I mean he was not EU but he could have had a you know a very famous life and uh and he decided to dedicate to to to those that we need as well but one thing for us to think about as a way also to uh to reach this better life you know this little device is like we said they are here to help us but uh they are not here to help us hide ourselves because many times because we don't want to face who we are we don't want to be with our own thoughts with our own selves we start looking at the life of others it's time and this is this is you know the our goal here as well is to to call a call to action so we start not being afraid of um analyzing ourselves so seeing what your feelings are and and observing if

time and this is this is you know the our goal here as well is to to call a call to action so we start not being afraid of um analyzing ourselves so seeing what your feelings are and and observing if this is uh what are you allowing yourself to become you know this apathetic person living in the state of whatever because when we we pay attention at ourselves we are going to be capable to change or to find ways and to find meaning to change us so all this psychology and spirituality means exactly that a bridge to a better life so I hope you join us in our next episode thank you so much much I was going to say Martin and um we will see you soon back soon yes so yes so I want to say thank you josada we we have come to an end a wonderful talking to you today uh we discussed today hindrances to positivity we have lots of topics coming up among others we have the pursuit of reality Consciousness in life balance health peace how to coexist religion religiosity anger face there is so much for us to talk I hope you come back to us to the next week when we're going to be talking more about topics found in the works of Joanna DeAngelis that discuss psychology and spirituality please please take a moment to tell your friends about this talk or come back and send us your questions thank you so very much foreign