Ep 158 - Shangri-La and the Journey of the Spirit

Hi everyone, welcome back uh and welcome to our podcast psychology in spirituality a bridge to a better life. We meet once a week and uh when we are here together to have this discussions we explore this beautiful and and quite quite remarkable intersection between psychology and spirituality and it is amazing because every time we come together I feel that we uncover timeless wisdom and these they they help all of us to to live a greater uh life in terms of meaning and purpose. Well, who am I? My name is Marcia Trojan and with me today are Josada Corn Goat, the founder of this program. Hi Josada and Dr. Ani Fona. How are you doing both? >> Hi. Hello Marcia. Hi. Hello everyone. It's great to be back to another podcast and uh to have those so enriching discussions, conversations that we have it with each other and thank you everyone also for the feedback that you are leaving and keep on bringing them. >> Yes. Hi. >> Hi everyone. It's a pleasure to be here with my good friends Josara and Mara and with all of you. >> Absolutely. Well, I wanted to to bring something interesting today and I just want to before we start um because this is a psychology and spirituality discussion and uh we often see ourselves using references to movies, art, sculpture, uh paintings etc. And I wanted just to explain why it is so endearing to me when we do that. And it's because if you will our souls, they don't really speak in um definitions, right? It it it speaks in images. So it is interesting when um art as expressed in movies for example will allow us to to see some inner processes that are usually very difficult to see. So when we talk and reference a film or a painting, it's not that we are here to talk about movies, but it's because it really help us to recognize ourselves in the same process. And uh I would say they are really mirrors of our consciousness. they um they express inner movements that can be fear, conflict or desire or even in in the case of our podcast transcendence

process. And uh I would say they are really mirrors of our consciousness. they um they express inner movements that can be fear, conflict or desire or even in in the case of our podcast transcendence and healing. So we're here today to contemplate together the psychology in spirituality of a concept that is quite interesting captured in a book in a movie. So uh are we ready? Are we ready for that? um wanted to to bring the the idea that throughout history humanity has created images of idealized places. So we can talk about utopia uh paradise, garden of Eden, right? or or even a a perfect island hidden kingdoms or even uh I love the idea that comes our mind is somewhere in in uh hidden underneath forest some cities of gold and it's interesting for us to to think about it because those images they do not come to us by chance they are actually an expression of this deep need within us, the human spirit to search for meaning, for balance and the transcendence that we talked about. So we are here today uh and that's our proposal to discuss uh an interesting movie and it may be dated. It was filmed in 1970s as a musical, right? And um it's its title is Lost Horizon. I don't know if any of you here with us today have seen it. I say go for it. Find the information. It will be contained in in our description of this episode to see if you agree if you see the same things. But Lost Horizon and I saw as a as a child uh it is an interesting movie because it uh uh it was first brought to us as a book and then a movie in the 1930s. So interesting from a context but brought back as a reinterpretation of the myth of Shangriila. Right. So what is it? is just you find a story taking place in an isolated quite harmonious valley and because it is isolated think in terms of the Himalayas right uh that mountain in all of a sudden there's a secret place that it lives outside our own concept of time more than the idealized exotic uh um island, right? This the setting Shangriila in this case

ht uh that mountain in all of a sudden there's a secret place that it lives outside our own concept of time more than the idealized exotic uh um island, right? This the setting Shangriila in this case is um a symbol and it points to us from a movie perspective. this dialogue between spiritism, spiritualization, symbolism, psychology, and quite frankly, the spiritual experience of being human. So, I'm here to talk about the idea of Shenria, right? And um and uh what is it? what why is it so important to us to talk about this idea right so let's go ahead and get started uh and I do want to talk a little bit about it uh I believe um just as a as a thought here that um Shangriila yes it comes to us from a movie but it's really the idea is not only brought forth forth by Hilton, right? uh the the author of the James Hilton was the author of the book and then movie but um he synthesized many eastern traditions specifically from a Buddhist one that idea that this location and it's very interesting is it location or is it location our consciousness right this location this hidden land of peace it is only access this is Buddhist thought only accessible to those who are spiritually prepared to access. It's very interesting right in this utopian this mythical place according to Buddhism is governed by harmony moderation compassion. So it really exists in our consciousness more than in a place a geographical place. So let's talk about can we recognize that place? Do we live in that place? How can we get to that place of harmony and peace? >> Okay. So well as you were um talking and describing okay um let's say that we are going to be giving a lot a lot of spoilers spoilers right but um well the the the movie is wonderful and the music are beautiful so doesn't matter the spoilers I know people will want to read the book or to watch the movie. But the thing is that Marca and Jos I have found it so interesting to see it again many many years after the first time of course decades after the first time because the

e book or to watch the movie. But the thing is that Marca and Jos I have found it so interesting to see it again many many years after the first time of course decades after the first time because the movie in the 70s something beginning I think of the 70s uh of what United States and other parts of the world were still with wars and things like that right happening and a lot of a conflicts and it seems like this is um humanity to and Jung talks about that to grow in a in a sense to evolve in consciousness. Uh we kind of need the conflict of of the opposites. Jung talks a lot about the opposites that still um in our psych um you know different poles uh different like good and bad uh and night and day and >> ugliness and beauty and things like that. So, but also for us to have a context about this lost horizon and the symbolism that it's in this place as Marca said that is that within or without that we are talking about right um and actually I think it's both because talks a lot about the zeitgeist >> and um a a lot of people have been uh listening to podcasts and things like that. It's pretty much in our culture to talk about the zeitgeist because uh in German it's a German term that zite is time and gist is spirit or mind. >> So zeitgeist would be the spirit of the times. And for Jung, I think we have to understand when we when Jung talks about that um he was uh talking about in his time after two world wars, right? >> And a lot of um you know all that craziness that had been going on. So when he talks about that uh of course all the development in technology and science that happened after that or during and after the wars. So he says that the spirit of uh his time right was that very materialistic and pretty much concerned with the materialistic science that thanks god we are living this paradigm but that's for another podcast. >> Yes. >> Right. And um also very um you know rational and very superficial in a in a sense because it's of course when we have like traumas uh psychologically

aradigm but that's for another podcast. >> Yes. >> Right. And um also very um you know rational and very superficial in a in a sense because it's of course when we have like traumas uh psychologically speaking traumas in this in this so deep traumas like wars like pandemic things like that that uh globally we we are very traumatized and we we are faced with the worst of our peers. For instance, what happens is that the ego, we are talking also about the ego, right? The ego develops to adapt to this life and it's uh kind of um in in prison in time and space in this space that we live in this time. So what happens is that the ego defends itself and of course um of all right so I heard it I I was hurting and um I was very scared of dying for instance I was very angry and resentful with you know uh what was going on. So I protect myself and then I say maybe of course we had to develop nuclear power and all of that. So then I think well um I mean human beings right uh could think I think we had kind of an inflation of the ego that we found ourselves really powerful really smart and because we we learned so much about the powers of nature physics and all of that and we learned so much that we built a lot of weapons. That's that's so silly if we think of uh spiritual growth, right? But what I mean is that all that was uh Jung's context after two world wars. And so what he says Martin Josada and everybody else is that it's kind of um if you get stuck in the spirit of uh of the times thinking only in this terms of ego terms because we cannot forget the spirit of the times um is al all about uh collective conscious. It's the conscious that it's in the collective, not the unconscious. >> And so the modern, the modernity, the rational mindset, we could say. So Jung says that this is an opposition in in the spirit of the times in opposition to what he called the spirit of the depths. I love that because when he talks about the spirit of the deaths, he's talking about um you know what um spirit of the

the spirit of the times in opposition to what he called the spirit of the depths. I love that because when he talks about the spirit of the deaths, he's talking about um you know what um spirit of the depths would represent the timeless the archetypal what we were saying and often neglected by the by our ego. So the profound um wisdom that we have you know and of course when he talks about this archetypal dimension we are talking about our about our higher selves right and I would love gorgeous to give the spiritist a point of view of that but just to finish this first thought um Jung said that um people usually usually are too consumed by the superficial spirit of the times and uh people then lose connection with what is deep and eternal and and really meaning meaningful within ourselves our inner world. So I would say to start that the lost horizon we can think symbolically and as a metaphor of course and I I I love that you said that our our psych um works actually talks let's say the language is images right as in dreams for instance and we are um gathering I think we Okay like like we are thinking about anything uh and wondering about things. So what happens is that um we have this beautiful metaphor in this movie that we have lost something so precious that to find this thing we um it usually is after a very deep conflict as in the beginning of the movie right they are flying from a war zone >> and then the plane crashes spoiler alert hurt like 50 years but and they found themselves in this mountain that it's very symbolic of course because mountain is ascension. >> Yeah. >> Uh and the if we are going to think about the symbols in the movie. So they were flying but they were flying with something that it's man-made our airplanes and everything that we do that it's man-made uh can it's a possibility as I was talking for us to to kind of get lost in our egos you know like having an inflation of the ego and then this plane crashes up in the mountain they haven't gone up in the mountain by

ssibility as I was talking for us to to kind of get lost in our egos you know like having an inflation of the ego and then this plane crashes up in the mountain they haven't gone up in the mountain by themselves The plane crashes and then there suddenly they are faced with of course there's a rescue party from the blue moon valley that it's the the name of the this lost place this lost horizon and they they were taking that so they weren't prepared for that and I think I would stop here because so they found something that they were not prepared to kind um at least in their egos. But we can talk about the higher self because the higher self is always calling uh for our individuation process. We are talking a little bit more about that is another metaphor of the movie. But the higher self is always calling as Joanna says right the ego. So when the ego unfortunately usually has suffered enough with some crisis then it's kind of prepared to face something in a sense to really look to something that it has lost this connection right something so the this lost connection with something that it's precious the spirit of the of the dance let's say then then of course we start um well this this mean this confrontation if we could say from from the ego and the desires and needs of the ego and the calling of the self but I would love to see you just said about that me too and >> thank you Ana because you you brought forth not only the plot but the setting right and the symbolism uh so juada tell us a a little bit from what you you all of us watch the movie, right? So, we're we're here ready to to to deconstruct this beautiful maybe dated but beautiful uh concept scene in this movie. Jos, what are your thoughts? How do you interpret that from a spiritual perspective? >> Okay. Um, one one thing that I was thinking is um uh how happy I am with this kind of conversation because I I do believe that today we are so um you know uh frightened sometimes even to talk about uh ideas, mystical things and dreams and you know

um uh how happy I am with this kind of conversation because I I do believe that today we are so um you know uh frightened sometimes even to talk about uh ideas, mystical things and dreams and you know we we think that is silly. Sometimes we refer to ourselves saying oh you know when I was young I I I wanted to be um an astronaut. Okay. I mean but but we we talk about it as a kind of embarrassment. Um thinking that we we aimed for too high or whatever. Of course, I we could use examples that could be much more achievable, but uh I I think that sometimes we we we we get into this mode of uh having to be so uh realistic about things and and you know is only reason reason material things. That's you know is all that matters that we we don't allow ourselves to talk to each other about fantasy about dreams about uh ideas that we will see are not exactly um that much um unknown to the vast majority of society from ancient times. s we see the the Greeks talking about the illusion fields. >> Yes. Yes. >> Right. Uh and then like we were talking about here, Shangriila is more of a a Tibetan kind of uh you know perspective. Everything uh that is related to hope of transcendence, perfect lives. We have the Valhalla uh that we find in the Norse mythology. We have we have the tierog of the Celtic mythology. We have uh so many u peoples that have been referring to that the nirvana and and and somehow we are all in this personal quest >> because it is a personal quest we may hide for the world from from the world because uh I don't know how the world will deal with that how people will deal with that if I keep thinking and saying I long I long for a place like this. And this is where you know the spirituality and psychology comes and play just one role which is to me is it is in you. Valhalla is in you. You know Shangry lights in you. The illusion fields are in in you. Um and there is a road map there is a way of accessing those places. They are not just mythological places. Those are are are places that like Dr.

gry lights in you. The illusion fields are in in you. Um and there is a road map there is a way of accessing those places. They are not just mythological places. Those are are are places that like Dr. And can talk to us about you know the young perspective young perspective in terms of uh you know the archetypes in terms of you know this process of individuation that which is exactly to leave us to this horizon that exists and we do not know. When we talk about spiritism is the same thing. You know you are the essence of a creator. You have to go and search for this essence. So it's like you know a board game sometimes for us right? We advance three, four uh places and then it's too backwards and then there you know you you you have to wait a little bit because it's not your your your your time to to because you miss it something so you cannot play for two rounds. All of that for us to to value. And so when we we we watch this movie uh the lost horizon. Um I mean you you can lost from so many different perspectives. You know people who do not dream who are very dry and bitter with themselves probably will say it's just it's just nothing you know. Um but for us we allow ourselves to dream to believe to understand that there is something more and we have been seeing that in history there has been something more one generation after the next maybe of course it's not the illusion fields yet but we are advancing fast in this d direction. So it it is good to see a society where they give value to what is really valuable for you in terms of living in terms of growing in terms of you know evolving and finding inner peace. So I I I think it's just extraordinary and when I watch the movie for the first time, I was so amazed in thinking, wow. >> Yes. Yes. >> Marc may I may I ask ask you guys a question? >> Sure. because you are in in the US and I have um listened to many podcasts because I I investigate the collective unconscious. I have a research going on. So, and I have uh listened to many

estion? >> Sure. because you are in in the US and I have um listened to many podcasts because I I investigate the collective unconscious. I have a research going on. So, and I have uh listened to many podcasts from people in the United States and a lot of great things, great stuff. uh but one of the things uh thinking about the zeitgeist of our times that I think it's of course we have a lot of conflicts go still going on right >> and and a lot of crisis and um but there is something different I think from Yung's time that it's this spiritual awakening just for this kind of podcast go is that we do and many others around the globe talking about spirituality and in different contexts not only in one certain religion but spirituality in general spiritual development and people very interested millions of people uh watching this kind of podcast but I thought I I found something very interesting a lot of people uh talking I was listening into now and it came to my mind a lot of people talking in some podcast about spirituality that we are like prisoners of a matrix I don't know if you have heard this kind of things because the the movie is cool it's fantastic matrix the the movie Neo the the charact that's another movie but >> that we are talking about but this one everybody knows everybody but so Um many people are are using this term matrix and as if we are stuck here as if the free will uh really doesn't exist because we are stuck here and we are well I have heard including that some beings from outside of the planet were responsible for putting us here in in this planet in this reincarnation cycle. cycles. So I have heard a lot of uh you know and you guys were talking about fantasy imagination and for young uh fantasy imagination is a psychic reality. It's not that it's a real reality in the outside world but it's a reality for the psych and we have to pay attention to this kind of images and in in ourselves and in the collective. So I would I was listening to Josada and thinking Josada

e outside world but it's a reality for the psych and we have to pay attention to this kind of images and in in ourselves and in the collective. So I would I was listening to Josada and thinking Josada uh why is so difficult and I would love for you to bring to us Cardex and other uh spiritist authors as Joanna Jones the thoughts why so difficult to us to think that we are here in this matrix if you want to think of a mat okay that is created uh uh actually for by all of us because thinking and imagining as we know that in in other spiritual dimensions uh that that are not so material as our this this dimension um the thought creates right the it really creates uh the environment that the spirit is in. So and here it's the our imagination uh creates we we know a lot of um of fictional for instance um science fiction movies books that they anticipate a lot of um technology that comes some years later. So that's imagination and that's beautiful in humankind because we imagine we put a lot of thoughts and a lot of um and actually science also needs imagination intuition all of that for us to observe nature and to uh under try to understand its principles. That's science a rational observation of nature and its laws. Right? But we need imagination. So we fly, we fly now with airplanes and all of that because we observed in many many centuries ago the birds, right? And then we imagine ourselves flying. So what I was uh wondering listening to Josala is why and also considering this lost horizon this lost connection with our the the spirit within the spirit of the depths our higher selves. Why can't we be humble and understand that we have asked for this incarnation that we have asked for this kind of challenges because we want to evolve spiritually. We want to we are part of the source of God. We are emanations of of God of course but we are not gods ourselves in a sense. We can be like who knows very high spirits in the future but we have to work to to that. Joanna says that

source of God. We are emanations of of God of course but we are not gods ourselves in a sense. We can be like who knows very high spirits in the future but we have to work to to that. Joanna says that uh she's she has a beautiful sentence that I wrote here to ask you about that exterior evolution is easier to be achieved compared to that of our inner nature which imposes sacrifices in the area of our feelings and reason and cardc talks about the faith as a reasoning right so I don't know if you understand what I because I I'm so I was thinking listening to you saying well of course we h we have kind of an inflation a collective inflation that we think we know so much about science that we we think we know so much about the laws of nature about ourselves and to these days we still have a lot of conflicts all over the world right we still keep doing nasty things to each other >> and we still think that we are in prison here because some bad whatever being has stuck us here in this matrix and that we have to believe uh and that we are gods and we can just simply not be here any longer. I'm just summarizing a lot of things that I've heard >> and thinking about the zeit guys that we are in. So just I know it's a lot of things to you but I would love to you to give to bring to us the spiritist contact that that I think it's missing in this guide guys for many people at least uh this week I was uh listening to to a talk I I I don't even remember who was giving the talk okay but uh the person mentioned something that I thought oh I remember Now it was our tour valid. He was mentioning something in relation to you know the one of the greatest mediums that we had uh in the world. I would say Francisco Xavier as we call him him, you know, Shik Savior and he said that he was talking to to this spirit spiritual guide, the mentor Emanuel and they were talking about, you know, the the different u dwellings in, you know, that we can find uh in the universe. Not only the spiritual dwellings but the

rit spiritual guide, the mentor Emanuel and they were talking about, you know, the the different u dwellings in, you know, that we can find uh in the universe. Not only the spiritual dwellings but the physical dwellings as as well and we are here talking about you know a shangriila lizian fields you know um tanoghala different dwellings. >> Yeah. And um he he asked Emanuel if he could uh take him to visit some of those places very far away, very highly evolve it. And Emanuel said no, it's better not. but he insisted. And then according to how Shiko Shiko describes, Emanuel accepts. And so here he is, you know, leaving planet Earth, observing planet Earth from above, the moon, the other planets, the solar system, uh the the other stars that were near to our solar systems. then the milkway and then you know he started to move um uh away from the milkway. All of a sudden he looks to Emanuel and say I need to go back. I need to put on my slippers and drink a coffee. So your question remind me of that because there are so many things that we want to know we want to understand but we don't have even the v vocabulary to think about that >> and uh we still cannot acknowledge that everything that we have on our material world is merily a copy of what we have in spiritual more evolved worlds or other worlds. I remember in one of the books by this actually um received by the medium shiko savior dictated by the spirit Andre Lewis where he is uh in uh one of those dwellings and then he looks at a painting in the office of this the spiritual mentor and he said, "Oh, this painting is so beautiful. I saw I saw the original in a museum on earth and then the mentor said well this one is the original. The painter the painter on you know an out of body experience came and saw the painting and had you know the intuition to paint this painting. So also what does this mean that when we are ready for whatever way it uh it doesn't matter exactly the way we will be having visions intuitions

and had you know the intuition to paint this painting. So also what does this mean that when we are ready for whatever way it uh it doesn't matter exactly the way we will be having visions intuitions ideas collective ideas and uh we will progress I think that for the time what can we do We should not become a hindering for this process. That's why at the the beginning of our conversation, I said I'm so happy to be talking about it because uh I mean we have to to come out of in the open and say you know I am a person that dreams. I am a person that do believes that there is something better waiting for us but waiting for us in the sense that I have to do something about it. is not enough like it shows in the movie. You all of a sudden see yourself in an environment that is far superior to what you are experiencing so far because you may not even adapt to this environment. So um I I if we don't go through this process like you were saying and I in terms of self awakening >> and understanding our purpose we may be taken to paradise >> uh like the symbolism of Adam and Eve they were in paradise they were lacking for nothing but all of a sudden that was not enough that was not enough. I have to go. I have to see for myself. It's like when we go to three children and say, "Don't do that. You're you're going to to to hurt yourself. It's not good for you." And until we go and do it. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes it takes a lot of times for us to say, "No, it's because I did it wrong. I'm going to try again." And again you you know you you you suffer the consequence. No but I have to still keep trying and again you suffer the consequence until it will come a time that will say well enough is enough. I have to find a different route for myself and I think this is uh unfortunately not the answer that we would like to have because I myself would like to have all the answers. >> Yes. >> Uh answer me a question. I know that's a I love it >> to me an answer, right? But we have to wait and be content.

we would like to have because I myself would like to have all the answers. >> Yes. >> Uh answer me a question. I know that's a I love it >> to me an answer, right? But we have to wait and be content. >> Yes. >> With what we are already capable of embracing and it's so much more than we ourselves are allowing to happen. So be open be open to this reality you know and and and know that it will come to take place. >> Absolutely. So for all of you who saw us as smiling with Josetta singing right this is just one beautiful little song but Bert Barker was the one who who created this in the musical version of the movie. Um and it's just to me just out of in the songs themselves are more they are so uh dense in the meanings that I would say let's just look at the songs before you you watch the movie or read the book and that brings back to something that you said Jos if I may. uh you you mentioned um the the idea that uh Andre Louise and he was talking about I saw the original in the museum, right? the painting and immediately I remember the book uh and I think it was he wrote in early 1900s like maybe 1914 uh Leon Dei where he he talks about spiritism in the arts right and it goes back to how we started our conversation today because uh Leon him too he brings to us how art songs right music, painting, sculpture, etc. How the arts are really indeed one of the most powerful bridge between our spiritual dimension and our material dimension. So, it goes back to you and I, you know, I'd love for as we're we're get to a few more minutes together, maybe you can wrap our conversation to talk about this sense of uh how the imagination, how art can brings us back to that uh sense of cocreators even though um we are probably disillusioned. And I think that's what you're talking about, right? Some of the podcast you're seeing this deep sense of disillusionment. The sense that like in the matrix, we are feeling entrapped in reality that it could look good, but it's really so hollow that is inauthentic. It's not our

e seeing this deep sense of disillusionment. The sense that like in the matrix, we are feeling entrapped in reality that it could look good, but it's really so hollow that is inauthentic. It's not our reality. >> Right. So tell us tell us a little bit about it so we can close our time together today. Well, I think Martha that um our zeitgeist um is um we are shifting from one perspective of the world of ourselves to another and that's why um I think spirit is knowledge as everything that Josada was telling us and I I was Josara took me back to Shiko Xavier their book. I love that part. And he said, "Well, that's the original." I said, "Yes, that's the original." So, and you see, when when Josada took me to to the book again and the way that I imagined the scene, I lived that inside of myself when she talked about Shiku being taken because he was bothering Emanuel, right? Take me there. I want to see and all that and okay then his mentor took him to out of in in space and all of that and he realized that was too much for him. So, so being humble, being um you know, okay with with the evolution, the the like let's say the speed, the way that we can evolve each one of us. And I think one of the things that Joanna brings in her uh you know putting together um Yung's uh analytical psychology deps and spiritist knowledge that is the focus of um Joanna's work is this um beautiful understanding that we don't have to get paranoid with anything. Oh, I'm stuck here. Somebody put me here. Whatever being, bad being or all the Oh, I'll have to come back again. Uh, until I get out of the matrix like like Neo, take one of the pills that I don't remember is the blue or or red one, but then I wake up to the reality that it's off or whatever. No, no, no. I think we have to realize and that's the beauty of um spiritist knowledge and this inner journey to because this knowledge is within each one of us right we have in our spirit the possibility as we evolve and we start as you saying

hat's the beauty of um spiritist knowledge and this inner journey to because this knowledge is within each one of us right we have in our spirit the possibility as we evolve and we start as you saying evolving our consciousness and through all these experiences in different incarnation in different worlds, right? Because we know that it's we can incarnate in different worlds. So that's that's a wonderful uh way that source that God gave us to evolve learning and we don't learn um by ourselves. We learn together. That's uh growing together is another song of the movie. Living together, growing together, right? >> So that's beautiful. Another beautiful song of the movie. Uh so one of the thing is that we in the that's great that Jung um went so deep in our psych that he found the collective unconscious in the depths of our psych that everything okay we have to individuate in we have to find our own equation let's say to balance the the different oppositions that we still have in this level of evolution but We do that collectively and Jung says that navigating life that's Yung requires balancing the intellectual trends of the zeitgeist with the profound unconscious wisdom of the spirit of the depths of our spirit of our higher self. Uh but also understanding that we are all connected. So to wrap it up, I would love to give to you the priest that um of the the character that we are not going to give so many spoilers, but the priest of of course had more than 200 years, but we are not going to say why. Okay. Uh but the priest talking to Richard the main character about why they brought them all there especially Richard. Uh and then Richard said the well but um this is a time of crisis because the priest was inviting Richard to stay there >> and then um and Richard that it was um high was considered a hero. I think he worked for the UN or something like that. Um helping people to get out of war zones and all. And he said the research said well this is a time of crisis like saying I cannot stay here as

o. I think he worked for the UN or something like that. Um helping people to get out of war zones and all. And he said the research said well this is a time of crisis like saying I cannot stay here as I have work to do. I have people to help. >> And then the priest says but when has the world known any other time? And he talks about ma the madness and blindness blindness of so many eras. And then the priest says when the day comes when the world is ready for a new life, it is our belief that they will find Changa, it is our hope then our that our brotherly love will spread throughout the world. >> So I think that's so beautiful. And the last thing that he says, when the strong have devoured each other, then at last the meek shall inherit the earth. And we can think that as a individual, the individuals that are in this illusion of power, right, and the material world, but also as a collective because when, as as Joanna said, when we uh really understand everything that Jos was bringing to us about spiritist knowledge that we are evolving and we are step by step. If we advance many many steps without being firm like the butterfly, right? If we free the butterfly from its cocoon, then uh the wings are going to be weak and we're not going to be the butterfly is not going to be uh able to fly. So, let's do that. Let's stop uh with this image of trying to be better than others. Um and let's worry only about being better than uh ourselves in a sense being each time right more more um loving more grateful and working with our shadows. Joanna tells us to really work with our shadows. Don't be afraid of our own shadows so that we can do as the priest said um spread our brotherly love. Love it. Love it. Uh just to to recap from our early conversation, right? We often as we see in podcasts etc etc different discussions that we feel trapped in this life that we call this incarnation we call life. But uh I I believe in our conversation we we do that because we chose it but while we may remember

c different discussions that we feel trapped in this life that we call this incarnation we call life. But uh I I believe in our conversation we we do that because we chose it but while we may remember meaning we forget method right and we're talking about shadow work as just one of the methods and uh and we also talked about how spiritual evolution today is quite paradoxical. We we know all right more than ever yet transforming ourselves will require the one thing that we resist the most right which is that patient inner work. So let us all remember cardex um rational faith right it will not remove the effort but you will give us consolation give us a sense of dignity. So the prison that Anna was talking about is not life or the crisis but perhaps our resistance to the kind of work that we need to in order to grow. Anyways, this is what came to to my thoughts based on our conversation today. I want to thank you both Ana and uh and Josara and I echo your your words Josara. I really appreciate the ability for us to come together and talk about these topics. But for you who are here with us, if this was the first time that you're listening to the program, just a reminder, the psychology in spirituality weekly talks are weekly talks based on the work by Joanna D'Angelus. And uh I hope that uh this conversation left some nuggets of wisdom for for you to either read the book, watch the movie, or listen to the songs. Um thank you. Thank you both. Thank you also our sponsors, Mansandu, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, AMI Brazil. Thank you and so long everyone. Bye. >> Byebye.