Ep 140 - Thought and Action: The Creative Power of the Mind

Hello everyone. Welcome to Psychology and Spirituality, a bridge to better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore the intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result, capture timeless wisdom contained in both fields. My name is Marcia Trigeiro and today we're here to explore this quite and I dare I dare say that sometimes underestimated topic, the power of thought and all the impacts, all the connections to to actions, to creativity, etc. But to dive into this topic, we have Jussara Cornejo. Hi Jussara and Yuri Castro, hey Yuri, who are both passionate about the intersection of yes, philosophy, psychology and spiritist teachings. Welcome all of you and I just wanted to say thank you for joining this episode of Psychology and Spirituality with me. Hi everyone. Do you want to say something, Yuri? Hello Marcia. Hello Jussara. Hello everybody who's watching us or listening to us. It's always a pleasure and honor and such joy to be here talking about psychology and spirituality. Absolutely. What about you, Ju? Do you want to say something? Yes, I'm so happy to be here. First time I'm going to be you know, in this podcast with Yuri. So I'm sure we are going to bring some very useful, interesting thought for you all that are listening to us right now. Well, both of you, I was thinking, right? You probably heard Descartes's famous phrase, I think, therefore I am. From a spiritist perspective though, it we could say it goes even further, right? Not just I think, therefore I am, but I think, therefore I create. Every thought we nurture and they shape our actions, our character and even our physical and spiritual health. And we are reminded that thinking is not a passive act. As I said, those thoughts, they work as a blueprint for action, whether visible or invisible, constructive or destructive. So, I would like to, before we start talking, just put a question to everyone who's here with us as an audience to just imagine for a second that our minds are like a

ble, constructive or destructive. So, I would like to, before we start talking, just put a question to everyone who's here with us as an audience to just imagine for a second that our minds are like a What are the seeds that we're planting right now with our thoughts? More to come with that, but I want to say, let's go ahead and get started from the beginning, right? Spiritism teaches that thought didn't just appear in its refined form that we have today. It evolved over countless incarnations. We went from instinctive survival thinking to this higher thinking capable of more choices choices and even awareness, right? Between oneself and and this overarching cosmic awareness. So, what is the origin of thought? Is it the brain or the spirit? Jussara, do you want to take that one? for us to start, I would like to mention The Spirits' Book by Allan Kardec, question 76, where the asks the spirits about uh you know, how can we define spirits? And the spirits replied that spirits may be defined as intelligent beings of the universe. So, when we are talking about intelligent beings of the universe, we are talking about exactly what René Descartes mentioned, you know, the ability that we have as humans to think, to reason, to decide what we are going to do from that. Of course, his his perspective were purely in terms of the matter, right? Much material at that time, he was mostly thinking about, you know, this uh engine that we have, the brain that made it possible for us to to think, to reason and what separates us from animals, from for instance. So, I I I I I I think we when we we go around and we study this this reply by the spirits, Yeah. we have an an immense source of material to to to really start discussing discuss discussing about thoughts, you know, this intelligence, this ability that we have for reasoning. But what is behind all that? As you said, like your question, is it the spirit? Is it the body or how does it all interact? And I want Yuri to tell me about it, Yuri. Yes. And Yuri, before

reasoning. But what is behind all that? As you said, like your question, is it the spirit? Is it the body or how does it all interact? And I want Yuri to tell me about it, Yuri. Yes. And Yuri, before before you add to to the the question, right? Is it where does the thought begin? I just wanted because, you know, as a clinical psychologist, not Union psychology, but it's it's good for us to think about that uh um right, Carl Jung brings this psychological parallel that he says that thought emerges from both our conscious mind and the deep unconscious and it shape it is shaped by archetypes and life experience. So, it's even a third dimension to the question. But go ahead, Yuri. Do you want to add to to the question? Absolutely. I think that's a great it's a great starting point for us when you ask the matter or the thought because as we learn through many different spiritist authors like Joanna de Angelis, like Andre Luiz. Jussara already mentioned The Spirits' Book. We we see that the minds, everything that the immortal spirit acquires throughout different reincarnations and different cycles of existence, be it incarnated or in the spirit plane, it carries it carries through every new experience that we have. So, when we reincarnate, the matter, let's say the body is kind of new, you know, it's fresh and we're growing as kids, we develop, but this mortal spirit with all of that all of the all of what it has already acquired is there. So, the thought is very much there. In more primitive forms as we are, you know, younger and trying to develop the the biological components to be able to express ourselves, to translate from here to here, but the thought is already there. So, I think that's that's a great starting point. Yeah. And in Genesis, another book that Allan Kardec brought to us, right? It it too reminds us that thought is this of the spirit, not just a brain function. There's so much work out there in neuroscience and and the study of the brain and what causes what when, right? Yuri and

t too reminds us that thought is this of the spirit, not just a brain function. There's so much work out there in neuroscience and and the study of the brain and what causes what when, right? Yuri and Jussara. And I just wanted to to maybe bring another tangent to it, which is um uh how do instincts still influence our thinking today? Are there moments and maybe Jussara, you may want to speak to that or or Yuri, I don't know who feels that you wanted to to add to this, but uh are there moments that perhaps we we catch ourselves reacting without reflection, right? How does that do instincts play into that idea of what comes first and the idea of our um thoughts that go through this evolution? Um also, again, mentioning the the spirits' book, we have it clearly shows that we have a misinterpretation in relation to instincts. We just think about, you know, the basic instincts or when we we we use this word, but uh uh and the way that the spirits presented to us, it's almost like our guardian angel, you know, because we don't have time to think, to decide, to to to know exactly what we are going to do. We we just go and we just do. That's very much related to the instincts of survival, the law of preservation and all of that. So, it is a good thing um because it it protects us. Of course, even when we are talking about instincts in relation to our evolvement going through the three kingdoms that it says or and reaching the hominid kingdom the mineral, vegetable, animal and the hominid, we we will see our instinct growing as well, very much like the free will that we have that is going to grow in accordance to how our spirit is going to to be more or less enlightened. So, I I think it's a very important subject and and for us not not to be worried or to try to eliminate our instincts because they they can be very very important. Normally I say when I drive, I keep on saving my purse, you know, because I put the purse on the on the the the seat next to me and what what

ur instincts because they they can be very very important. Normally I say when I drive, I keep on saving my purse, you know, because I put the purse on the on the the the seat next to me and what what something happens immediately because I learned that from my father. I go with my head like this and I said, "Oh my god, I saved my purse again." it's great. One day maybe I hope it doesn't happen anyway, but it maybe it's going to be a person. Yes. You know, remember that I I come from a time where we we didn't value so much seat belts. Today we have seat belts, but yeah, Yes. is the replacement Yes. instinct that we have. Yes. So so we could could call it the atavistic inheritance, right? Even though it's very specific to that oh, there's no seat belt. I'm I'm I'm taking care of the mom. I'm taking care of my young child and we know that in a crash we couldn't, right? Unless you're superwoman, unless you have some superpowers we don't know. You just said. But but the idea I love that you brought it to us. Uh Um there is this misinterpretation as you said of what does instinct means and even taken into a very negative connotation and good reminder. It's it's part of what we are today is because we went through that evolution of from instinct to the higher thought processes, right? And and and I think it's it's important. It is perhaps that the primitive layer of our thinking, right? Our thought processes maybe the the very first step to how we're able to transform it to to become more that aspect of survival. But psychologically speaking and then I think Yuri can explain that there, you those instincts certainly also comes from, you know, the the those sides of us that are not so present consciously speaking, right, Yuri? I don't know if I Yes. They they do come from that and there's this idea too. You guys are talking about instinct. I agree. We we have we have villainized instinct to a certain degree to Yeah. to the point where they're all bad, but think about the

at and there's this idea too. You guys are talking about instinct. I agree. We we have we have villainized instinct to a certain degree to Yeah. to the point where they're all bad, but think about the instinct of survival where where you know, as a as a human race, as all animals we see like the mother instinct or the instinct of survival is what even in mental health we talk about this going you know, not even necessarily in a in a religious conversation or spiritual conversation. Mhm. Mental health we talk about this instinct of survival being something that is very much um play plays a an important role in the individual that is very depressed or in the individual that is considering ending his or her own life. There's this instinct of survival that often times stops them. Mhm. That is something that's excellent. I'm glad we have the the instinct, you know, and one of them is this instinct of survival. But of course, as we progress and we're talking about thought and instinct. As we progress, the thought as this instrument that we have to change ourselves, to change our realities, we're starting to understand more and more what it is. We understand, you know, through the psychological lens as you guys already mentioned as well, how we can use how we can wield that instrument, you know? I love it. It it is a an instrument and we need to be skilled at that using that instrument, right? >> And it's a very powerful one, Marciana. I want to say too that we had a lot of a lot of um theories or schools of of therapy that focus a lot on changing our thoughts or analyzing our thoughts. Cognitive behavior therapy is a big one. Acceptance and commitment therapy, dialectical behavior therapy. And then we have Freudian one, Union. We have >> Yes. a bunch of different ramifications that will look at thought. How our thoughts influencing us. Yeah, and and it is so interesting as a as a by the way. Because when we we think those types of therapies to to change our thoughts, it

ons that will look at thought. How our thoughts influencing us. Yeah, and and it is so interesting as a as a by the way. Because when we we think those types of therapies to to change our thoughts, it immediately goes to oh boy, we are so negative, right? We as a society, as a human race, we're so negative and we we always think the worst and we we remember those negative impacts to to to life. And so I've seen and this is more of a self-help, more instead of other types of therapies, but we have to change your thoughts. We can get to positive affirmations, etc. etc. And then Jung says, "No." Right, Yuri? Jung says, your thoughts." Which is quite interesting idea, right? You have to move yourself from being the subjective in in the transaction with the thought into an objective viewer of the thought and understand, "Why am I thinking this? What is going on? Why am I reacting to that?" So, I I find it quite quite interesting and refreshing for that. Right? And yeah, go ahead, Justina. As since you mentioned all the Yuri, all you know, the schools that analyzes thoughts, etc. Would that be in the same uh area as analyzing the dreams as well? uh uh it's really a question because it just came to my mind because I you know, we always talking in terms of psychology to pay attention to the dreams, but now when we are talking about thoughts and I mean dreams may be also the result of my thoughts. So, can you expand a little bit about it? >> Yes. Yuri, Yuri, you said it. Just get get it to you. This is what I call she's throwing a curveball to Yuri. No, that's not a curveball. It's a good it's actually a good one because the the not every not every I'm going to say a lot of the the schools of psychology or a lot of the schools of treatment, they don't don't actually look too much into dreams. There are some that do. And you know, there's always this this thing where some even those who don't look too much into meanings of dreams or things like that and I'm speaking merely psychologically here,

e are some that do. And you know, there's always this this thing where some even those who don't look too much into meanings of dreams or things like that and I'm speaking merely psychologically here, not talking about the spiritual notion of what happened when we actually But just from the psychological standpoint, very like scientific standpoint, a lot of the the schools of psychology that don't look into dreams, they still look how the individual is we call we call ruminating. So, he's thinking about the dream over and over and how that's impacting their day-to-day. So, then you would you would approach that in that sense. So, we talk about cognitive behavior therapy, like I said, the ones I mentioned before. And they they aim at seeing how am I behaving with the thoughts that I'm having and the feelings and the emotions that are being elicited because of the Yeah. Yeah. Which is if you think about it, it's a little bit what Jung was saying so long ago, right, Yuri? If you think about it, you you object to your thoughts. >> Go ahead. He said that a long time ago and there is a new type of therapy for the past I'm going to say 20 years called acceptance and commitment therapy that that proposes that we don't try to really change change our thoughts because we don't have that power necessarily to change as as if we're like flicking a switch, but that we understand what we're thinking, how we're feeling, but we make room for the thoughts and the emotions and then we focus on what we're doing. So, our actions, the behaviors. And one curveball that I I like to to throw when I'm talking about the specific type of type of therapy, people say, "I want to change my thoughts and and I know I can do it." I said, "Okay. So, let's see. I don't want you to think of a white polar Don't think of a white polar bear. I don't want you to really don't think of a white polar bear. Don't think of you like passing your hand on that fur, how that fur would feel. Don't and I'm pretty sure you two are not thinking

r bear. I don't want you to really don't think of a white polar bear. Don't think of you like passing your hand on that fur, how that fur would feel. Don't and I'm pretty sure you two are not thinking about it cuz you're very controlled. What is that? That's an external stimuli coming from me that's affecting how you think. So, that's something that that is goes back to what Jung was saying like, "Let's observe. Let's observe what we're thinking and what's going on in here because there's a lot of things in the environment that change and impact directly how we feel Absolutely. I did think about the polar bear immediately. I think I thought first about Greenland where I went to a place that there was huge polar bear. And I took a picture. >> There you go. And it was so >> Good. It's a good So, then it's it still directed kind of like shifted how you were thinking cuz you're you're thinking something and now you're like thinking about that memory. But the the notion is or the idea is let's focus on what we're thinking, how we're behaving and what we're doing necessarily. But again, this is the psychological piece. We also have the spiritual piece that explains so so much more than a lot of the schools of psychology uh even though that's my They they analyze and they work on, you know? Yeah. One of the angels actually, you know, we learned that through Divaldo Franco, that he used to to give that or to to talk about it in some of his talks in terms of, you know, thoughts. And what can I do with my bad thoughts? And and according to what Juana told him is, you know, you you just let it happen the way it happens and and and try after you finish with that, because like you said, immediately we thought about the polar bear. Okay, now the polar bear is behind me Mhm. leave my mind to to, you know, to be drawn to something good, Yeah. positive. Because like you said, if I keep on thinking like, you know, people that are dealing with sometime, you know, some type of addiction or smokers, let's say,

be drawn to something good, Yeah. positive. Because like you said, if I keep on thinking like, you know, people that are dealing with sometime, you know, some type of addiction or smokers, let's say, have a smoker. I'm not going to smoke a cigarette. Just by saying cigarette, you to go through that. So, and then what she says, we cannot just erase it or or try to, you know, to to push pull it under the the rug, right? Yeah. Cuz it's going to be there. But little by little, when we deal with that, the good we will create space for the the good thoughts, which is actually what we are trying to achieve incarnation after incarnation with the perfecting of the spirit. Yeah. So so I was thinking just as a by the way, right? Um brain, spirit, the origins of thoughts, but then what what really has led to the from instinctive survival responses to this now today higher reasoning and more awareness? Because I I I think um just that from a spiritual perspective, uh specifically, right? How How does that spiritual evolution expand our perception even of the divine within, that sacred space within us? And and Udi, I have another question for you. I'm going to say it and then I'll go uh ask Jusara again, just so you can see the the in and yang here in in in in in in in yang, sorry, of of those two questions. But uh if you think um the brain's an instrument, right, uh Udi? Um is then transcendent transcendental emanation of the spirit. So, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about brain and spirit. But go back to Jusara. Um Jusara, how does it that uh uh as we evolve spiritually speaking, we also expand, we augment our perception of the divine within? Uh yeah, you know, it's actually one of the points that Juana de Angelis, we see that even when we think about ourselves the way we Mhm. have thoughts like, you know, mental construct Yes. that we haven't Yeah. And and and so, from where did they come from, right? And many of the things we know and we we study in the in in in in spiritual

e thoughts like, you know, mental construct Yes. that we haven't Yeah. And and and so, from where did they come from, right? And many of the things we know and we we study in the in in in in spiritual uh studies about exactly the the possibility of the growing of the spirit. This growing of the spirit means uh through the challenges, the natural challenges that we will be having, uh you know, from incarnation to incarnation and remembering the this podcast, we are talking we we always talk about reincarnation, okay? So, we we start from the principle that there is reincarnation and that we come from other experience, because otherwise it doesn't make that much sense why we present ourselves today if this is our first life, Yeah. not caveman, for instance, and we have all this accumulated knowledge that somehow we just know how to do it, we just know how to deal with things like, you know, we call it talent. We may say, oh, this is a genius person, but it comes from from from previous experience. Mhm. According to Juana de Angelis, the more we go through those existences and we face um you know, the problems, the the experiences at hand, we will be acquiring more and more knowledge, more and more understanding. But to the point that we are not talking just about intellect. Yeah. that we are talking about us as ourselves. So, now I understand that I am a mortal spirit. Now I understand that I have reincarnations. Now I understand that what I do have consequences and that I will have to deal with that consequences. And so, with those experiences, you know, facing things that we were not capable of facing or dealing before, now we are dealing with For instance, if we are talking about a heat wave, Mhm. God, we have ACs now in our homes, but it was, you know, the result of study of uh a spirit development as well to go and come about with with solutions to problems. And you know, briefly speaking, we we can use that and just for start up for us to Yeah. think about it a little bit more

irit development as well to go and come about with with solutions to problems. And you know, briefly speaking, we we can use that and just for start up for us to Yeah. think about it a little bit more in this aspect. Yeah. But let's I'd like to for you to maybe go even further, right? So so we talked about as we grow incarnation uh through incarnation and and we grow intellectually, but also in uh aspects. But how specifically, Jusara, how does it expand our own in our self-awareness, but the the awareness of the divine within, our connection to to God, our Yeah, this is what Jung says in terms of individuation and we this says we we we talk about reaching reaching perfection, right? And perfection in the sense that I will be able to become a whole, that I'm going to integrate self and ego and all of that and I will just see myself and be able to deal with all of those things. So, it comes to a point where and this is a point that I I believe actually we are living in our society nowadays, that is this inner anguish that we have, something that it, you know, it makes us very uncomfortable and that cannot be appeased with material things. We may get distracted with them, you know, it may be temporarily take my mind off it, take my thoughts out of it, but then there is this uh you know, idea that we we belong to something, we have a connection to something that is greater than ourselves. And it's when we go into this philosophical purposes. Actually, the other day I was studying the life of Sorry, I'm just going to No, please, please do. This is very good. Thank you. in the life of St. Catherine of Alexandria. Yeah. And she was considered to be a very very I mean, we are talking fourth century here, right? A very smart woman. And she she she was capable of facing uh philosophers that were scholars from the Plato's, Aristotle's, Socrates' schools and and replying to their answers in a way that with so much logic. But there was something in her that that caused her, you know, this

t were scholars from the Plato's, Aristotle's, Socrates' schools and and replying to their answers in a way that with so much logic. But there was something in her that that caused her, you know, this inner Thursday that she couldn't she couldn't she couldn't know what to do with that and until uh uh uh actually started got to the knowledge that she she got the knowledge of the Christianity. And he started attending some of, you know, the the Christian meeting that they had that at that time also The early Christians, yeah, yeah. Christians and then the the there was this purpose and then she she understood things and then she she transformed herself and to the point of being Of course, she was uh I think she was beheaded, but uh before that, she she she was before the emperor and all the court and everyone. And she was replying to the all the questions and showing how Christianity and Christ was actually a and in a way that it is said that many people in that day, because of her process for execution, they became Christians as well. So, we know how how rich it is when we we go through this self-transformation and >> Yes. Yeah. to this point that there is this Thursday and actually, I was studying the the life of St. Edith Yeah. known as Saint Didit. It is And it's the same thing. She was a very brilliant mind. Maybe even the recognition of Saint Catherine of Alexandria because when she was 14, she completely rebelled against, you know, all religious principles. And it was just reason and reason and and it was in Germany and she went to study in a very good school. She had the one of the brightest academic teachers at the time. Wrote a quarter books with him. But there was emptiness. And she had a friend because a couple that was friend of her from the academy as well. Her husband was killed in the the First World War. And she was so astonished with with the resilience and of the wife. And she went to visit her his wife and said, "I don't understand. How can you be like this?"

was killed in the the First World War. And she was so astonished with with the resilience and of the wife. And she went to visit her his wife and said, "I don't understand. How can you be like this?" You know. And then she was a Christian and she had a book that talked about the the lives of Saint and Teresa of Avila and so on and so forth. And she started studying that and went through baptism and and then, you know, to lose her life in Auschwitz. But you know, it is this thirsty that we have that leads us to you know, need to self-transformation and and increase those spiritual possibilities in us. >> I I love what you're saying, right? Which is the the the higher our thoughts grow and and and the examples of Saint Catherine, right, of Alexandria as well Saint Teresa, they are beautiful minds but they lead themselves into that connecting with what would otherwise be this be this emptiness that we have. We are more, as you said before, we we belong to something much bigger than what we are. I love it. I love the story. I'm going to go to to you, Yuri, because I I asked you before and I just wanted you to to maybe talk to us about it now in the more physiological, biological, right? We talk about the brain. Brain is an it is also when we see thought as this emanation of the spirit, how can we correlate brain activities and the I think this is another curveball, right, Yuri? No, it's another good one. It's not a >> Good one. All right. Yes, because because just before before I say that that I just had a comment on something that you guys were talking when you said I was saying I was thinking about the Gospel According to Spiritism by Allan Kardec when they're talking about chapter 25 when they're talking about how men has this this desire to progress and you said you said it very well, you know, this desire, this thirst that it's almost like there's there's something more, this hunger for something more which differentiates us and this connects directly with thought from the other

, you know, this desire, this thirst that it's almost like there's there's something more, this hunger for something more which differentiates us and this connects directly with thought from the other animals because before, way way before, millions of years ago, we would do what? We would fend off enemies, we would hunt for food and find shelter. That's it. But animals do that too, but men is capable of doing something more. Humanity is capable of doing something more and it's this desire for progress and to progress that has led us to where we are and the spirit is very much behind that and the thought is a a a reflex or or sorry, a reflection of that because the idea that we can think way different than other animals can. There there's something there. There's something to be said about how we have evolved biologically, Marcia, and that's your question about the brain as this sort of pathway for our thoughts and all of that, this house for our thoughts. Maybe we can call it like that. But of course, if we if we think about the spirit as being something that's something that has had different experiences, something that has evolved, certainly it needs adequate instruments to continue its progress. By instruments, we can think bodies, our brains for instance. So, there is a clear evolution of the body, human body and the brain itself as that is that is congruent or I should say even concomitant, happens at the same time as the evolution of the body, the brain and the thought. So, our bodies and our brains are evolving and our thoughts are becoming more complex. We're starting to grasp at more subjective things which our ancestors could not grasp as subjective things. We're better Just out of mention technology, too. We're better planning things right now. We're better doing so many other things that thousands and thousands of years ago, the humans that were here could not. So, brain changed throughout, you know, human history. Around, let's say, 500,000 years ago, there was a big spike

hings that thousands and thousands of years ago, the humans that were here could not. So, brain changed throughout, you know, human history. Around, let's say, 500,000 years ago, there was a big spike and we saw like how brain increased in size. So, the they we already see a difference in size. But more than that is the difference between the complexity of the brain functions. So, the brain doing >> us when was it that was that spike that led to a a change in the brain size? I was just curious. Yeah, they it's almost a million years ago. That's the easiest way to remember. But they say between 800,000 and like 300,000, 200,000 years ago, we saw a big spike into in in I say spike, I mean it was a big increase in the size of the human brain as we started to become more complex as a society and have more complex functions. But there's also the notion of, you know, how size is not all that matters as well. It's like it's the complexity of the function because if we think of of the whale, like there's a whale whose brain weighs weighs 20 lb. Ours weigh 3 lb. So, but we are far more intelligent. So, what is it? Is the complexity of the functions as the brain develops, as we're capable of expressing thought in the spirit that is becoming more enlighten and more complex as after each reincarnation, the brain is also following this process so the spirit can express itself. And there's and I just want to add one more thing too, biologically speaking, that's interesting for us to realize how before we were, you know, it was there was way more aggression, there were way more of the basic emotions, let's say, a million years ago, right? And now we have the prefrontal cortex which is the most, you know, the the last part of the brain that that develops, by the way, which is interesting because our brain it grows from from bottom up and back to front. So, there's this idea that the functions that are more basic like movement and emotional functions, they develop first. Last but not least is the prefrontal

rows from from bottom up and back to front. So, there's this idea that the functions that are more basic like movement and emotional functions, they develop first. Last but not least is the prefrontal cortex which is related to planning, which is related to attention, executive functioning. All these things that are way more complex that our ancestors all the way back then didn't have has evolved as we have. And as we see with thought, it's the same thing. They both follow this gradual progression. Yeah, I love it. I love it that we we gave both sides the house in terms of explaining that evolution of thoughts, the evolution of brain. And I think you mentioned Just out already about the individuation, right? But I was thinking, do you do you want to perhaps talk further about how the concept of individuation relates specifically to the development of thoughts, right? I was thinking about, you know, spirituality. You use the terminology of right? As we as a spirits are accompanied by a spiritual body. And, you know, other philosophical spiritualist lines of thinking may use different terminology. So, you know, but our spiritual body as being the one that is the organized biological model for our physical body. Yes. So, as we were talking before, the more we expand in in spirit in spirituality in this connection to what we we truly are, like, you know, we have a latent light, so to say, or inner light within ourselves that is shadowed by all the layers that help us to act as a spirits in in a spiritual bodies and in in corporeal bodies. So, when it it comes the time for us to reincarnate, according to how we are evolving in spiritually speaking, our perisprit, our spiritual body, will have direct let's say, impact on how the physical body is going to develop. And this is in the line of what Yuri was explaining because or through, you know, we we were obliged to to come up with solutions with facing challenges. I I I I don't say obstacles or difficulties or suffering. I I I really

of what Yuri was explaining because or through, you know, we we were obliged to to come up with solutions with facing challenges. I I I I don't say obstacles or difficulties or suffering. I I I really like to to call them challenges to to >> Yeah. for us to grow in an intelligence. I mean, if you keep a child at home without exposing this child to the to the world, what is going to happen to this child, right? What kind of and and, you know, be able to to use this pre-cortex like you said, right, Yuri? comes a time that I I will have to have the the power to decide in all of this. So, this is what is going to impact in terms of, you know, biologically speaking like Yuri was is so talking before in terms of uh how we are going to be reflected in our corporeal body. But then, when we talk about individuation, when we are talking about this is spiritual progression, >> Yeah. This is is the it it is, you know, trying to find within ourselves. And at the moment, we are we do not live, you know, a life of balance in anything. Even when we have a religion spirituality, I say, can you say that the spirituality or religion is like 10 or 20% uh in your life? Because, you know, most of the for most of the people, it's going to be tops 20%. So, 80% of our time we are dealing with other things and we are not dealing with us, with ourselves. So, this process, and I think that this is what John and Angela also brings to us in many of her books. Mhm. But in terms of being conscious about uh thoughts and how we can put our mind into action in the in a good way. I love it. I I think this is getting really interesting here. We have just a few more minutes together today, but uh Joanna does state that everything in us begins with a thought, right, Jusara? It first comes the idea, then it sketches possibilities, and eventually it becomes an action. And uh if we think about it, right, Jesus um in Matthew 5:28 uh said to lust after someone in your heart is already to commit the act inwardly. And and I I I'm just thinking

ally it becomes an action. And uh if we think about it, right, Jesus um in Matthew 5:28 uh said to lust after someone in your heart is already to commit the act inwardly. And and I I I'm just thinking how does Jesus' words reflect this context of thought and action? Who would like to to perhaps talk about the the trigger, right? I I'm thinking, therefore there is uh an action that is created from the thought process. I think for that we can go to Genesis. We're talking a lot of Kardec today. I can go to Genesis to understand a little bit more of the cosmic fluid and how thought actually uh changes the environment and all of that. And I think that that's that's a good starting point, but I also think of the importance of the thought as you're saying, Marcia, this trigger and all of that. When Jesus also in Matthew, this time 26 uh 41, watch and pray. Yeah. Watch what, you know? >> Yeah. Watch and pray. And what is the prayer, you know, if it's not this emanation that we we we we emanate, sorry to be, you know, redundant, but this thing that we actually send in the thoughts. And I think Jesus all the way back then, 2,000 years ago almost, he was already alluding to how important it is for us to be mindful and vigilant of our thoughts because they do have a lot of impact on our environment. I don't know if Jusara wants to add something as Yeah, I think this is going to be for the next chapter when we are going to be talking about, you know, our thoughts and how we communicate with spirits. Because the spirits do not give us, you know, the whole sentence in whatever language. They give us images. And the the images are so powerful. And of course, I'm uh eager to live in the future uh where we will be able to communicate with uh much less words than today. Able to to to to see the thoughts of others Yeah. spirits can see our thoughts by images and by representations, by signals that when I I I look at an an an apple with a bite, I don't need to make a the whole sentence and explanation of that. It's

h. spirits can see our thoughts by images and by representations, by signals that when I I I look at an an an apple with a bite, I don't need to make a the whole sentence and explanation of that. It's obvious that you know, someone is eating or ate that bite that that that apple, right? Yeah. And sometimes we like like like right now, I'm using so many words just to say that. And what we see and and so I think it's so amazing when we think about the this and and also to be careful, really careful with our thoughts. Yes. The first one that is going to be infected positively or negatively is you. Because if it is good if it's a good thought, it's going to, you know, and give you an extraordinary aura, >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something negative, it's going to be shadowy, dark. And it's going to put you down, and it's going to attract in you both sides of life Yes. that are are going to attune with this mental construct that you have. Yes, Yeah. No, this is this is awesome. And and if we if we talk a little bit further, right, the the mental act already shapes starts to shape reality through How does it do it, right? Energetically, spiritually, and emotionally. Uh so, I love what you said. Maybe we can come back in a future episode, Jusara, to talk about uh the idea of how does it work that images. But um there's another book uh the spirit author Emmanuel in Thought in Life, right? He he does thought to this architect, right? It is the blueprint that you draw in your mind. And eventually, that blueprint finds a way to be constructed, executed, or manifested. And uh so, uh in psychology, Yuri, maybe you want to add something else, right? um it shows when we change our thinking, we change our behavior, right? The the the cognitive behavioral therapy. Yeah, and and again, with you mentioned Emmanuel, of course, because every every idea, every big realization started as a thought. Yeah. >> act, good or bad, starts small, starts as a thought in the mind of the person who eventually fulfill that action. So,

se, because every every idea, every big realization started as a thought. Yeah. >> act, good or bad, starts small, starts as a thought in the mind of the person who eventually fulfill that action. So, everything is like when you say it's the architect and it's the blueprint, that's why which which I also love I love that book Thought in Life. Yeah. Few in the future, hopefully, it's like Jusara is saying, we're going to be living in a world which there are worlds like that where we communicate by thought, where the vocal cords are going to be non-existent or useless because even now, when you're talking about the apple, I thought of Leon Denis Jusara how how could we try to explain the subtle things of the spirit in our weak language? We can't. And I like to give the example, try to explain what love Yeah. And and >> Yeah. If you really were able to encapsulate everything that love is, we can't. It it we lack words, we lack, you know, vocabulary, but the thought is there. The sentiment is there. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. We are at time. And I just wanted to to see if either one of you want to say your final thoughts and ideas uh before we close our episode today. I think it's Yuri is is really teasing us today because when we finish our podcast, I will be thinking about the polar bear and the love, how would I define love? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that, you know, I I I'm going to use, you know, some of my 60,000, 70,000 thoughts a day thinking about a polar bear Yes. Yes, it it's it's crazy, right? How uh under outside of the controls that we can put it can go everywhere, right? Uh Yuri Yuri, any final thoughts before we close? I think it was a great conversation. We definitely need to do another one now on question 459 of The Spirits' Book, how much are we influenced? Cuz when I mentioned the polar bear, I'm an incarnate spirit influencing your thoughts. How do they invisible friends or not so good friends influence us? And I think, again, the final message I think is just watch, you know, watch and

, I'm an incarnate spirit influencing your thoughts. How do they invisible friends or not so good friends influence us? And I think, again, the final message I think is just watch, you know, watch and pray, be vigilant, be mindful, understand how powerful this instrument that we have perfected or we have used throughout our history actually is. Our thoughts can very much change our how we feel, how we behave, how we interact with the world around us. So, be mindful of that. I love it. I love your ideas for future episodes. I take your notes. And for everyone, I pose in the beginning a reflection to think of ourselves as gardeners. And if you move into the idea that every thought is a seed, right? Um we start to make some correlation. You cannot harvest roses if all you're planting is poisonous plants, right? So, let's think about we we talked a lot about the many different Spiritist teachings today. And alongside some psychological and philosophical ideas that came through our conversation today, they all remind us that thought is not just what happens in our head, but it's also this um invisible hand that is shaping our today and our tomorrow. But everyone, if this is was the first time that you listened to our program, please note that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna de Angelis. And we hope we're able to um get some ideas to to think about it and uh and uh further massage those ideas. But I wanted to thank you, Jussara. Thank you, Yuri. What a pleasure. I want to also thank our sponsors, Mansão do Caminho, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, and AMHB Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the Medical Spiritist Association. Thank you all of you. And until next time,