Ep 131 - The Gift of Aging: Wisdom, Freedom, and Growing Older - pt 2

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality a bridge to better life discussion. We come together every week and those weekly episodes are here so that we can explore this beautiful intersection between spirituality and psychology. And of course as a result we come out captured timeless wisdom containing both fields. What if aging isn't about decline but about becoming more of who we truly are? Well, we're here together in a followup to our last episode that talked about the gift of aging. And we're here to perhaps uh discuss and even uncover some labels around age limits and how that aging process will also limit our souls and how spiritism teaches that no the soul never grows old. Right? And I just want to say um that I'm really excited to be here to to hear from Josara Co and Dr. FA, those incredible individuals with such knowledge um to to understand how can we explore and perhaps reclaim our purpose, our vitality at any age or to reframe or see aging again as a gateway to spiritual expansion and to stop to free ourselves from all the cultural programming and internalized agism. Anyways, thank you. Thank you for being here. Dr. Na, Jos, how are you do to doing? >> Hello. >> I'm doing great. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> We are always very polite. Who is going to come first? >> Wonderful to be here again with you. And so uh I I'm looking forward to our conversation today because the topic is a very rich one and there's so much for us to uh to explore when we are talking about you know becoming of age. H it's inevitable it was going to happen to anyone right or to everyone. So yeah, hello. >> Thank you. >> And hello everyone. It's great to be here with you guys again and talking about this great topic. Right. Yes. And we are aging right now. Right. So let's dive into it. >> Absolutely. So I just wanted to to say that the overarching topic of course is aging or the fear of aging. that is hitting so many of us. But before we talk about it, I was hoping that maybe

to it. >> Absolutely. So I just wanted to to say that the overarching topic of course is aging or the fear of aging. that is hitting so many of us. But before we talk about it, I was hoping that maybe you Josa can talk about the concept of metaninoia and metaninoia historically or spiritually or psychologically speaking. What uh what is it? Can you define it? Can you introduce us? and the importance of this concept as we are talking about aging. >> Yes, he was right Marcia. Uh that was something that was introduced uh in our last conversation by Ana Dr. An I uh we thought that it would be nice for us to keep on talking about it. Metaninoa which is uh you know in its ethmology it means meta means after beyond noa meaning mind uh so like a reconsideration reorientation of thought and um uh when we think about it is a Greek word work word and we wanted to know how the Greeks used it what what did they think about it and of course like every word and every concept cept we are always expanding right we there is there are always uh more things that can can come from that and this is a very rich word uh in the sense that even when we think about Socrates when he said know thyself the know thyself means you know uh going after the mind the way you are thinking now reconsidering yourself and and and v viewing yourself in a different way. The same thing we can we can see in Plato when when he talks about the the the allegory of the cave when people are are are are bound in a cave and then they only see the shadows but then one of them can liberate it oneself and and comes back and say there is more to it. So it's again a concept of going be beyond that but I mean in in everything that we we find in in in terms of uh uh this word in in ancient times and even sophocles uh it's very it's very beautiful sophocles antiggony when he talks about king Kon uh he lost everything in the Persian wars right and and then he lost his son he's lost his wife and and then he says always lost I

it's very beautiful sophocles antiggony when he talks about king Kon uh he lost everything in the Persian wars right and and then he lost his son he's lost his wife and and then he says always lost I have been rash and foolish. So I mean uh and then we will see or we will think there is no time for him to reconsider because now too late he lost everything. >> But from the spiritual perspective we will see that there is always renewal. There is I mean there is no death there is always continuation and and to come to this realization is actually the the purpose of metaninoia. So going through a a self a crisis, going through uh a a difficult time will many times push us into a direction that we've been avoid avoiding because you know you are in your comfort zone. You don't want to you don't want to adventure that much. It's okay. I I know to deal with things as things are at the moment. But but this is the reason of living. It it's always to you know to to bring new things to to know yourself better to look at yourself in a in a different perspective and to go in adventures but adventures of the soul and and this is what uh you know we can see uh in terms of metaninoia. But of course when Yung came he brought you know he he he I mean he kicked the door >> you were just playing with this concept. Let me open the door to the meaning right he said oh my god this is something and then is when I I want to talk about it because you know her field of expertise but but it's so beautiful when we go through that and we see that from ancient times the concept is the same it is there the truth is there and then we've been wasting time Yeah, that's that's a very good point, right? We we the the knowledge and awareness of metaninoia is has been there more than 2,000 years ago, right? And yet we are just now perhaps perhaps getting ready to to really understand it and internalizing it. So Ana, what are your thoughts? Can you tell us a little bit about how did Jung kick the door open to the concept of metaninoia to us?

ps getting ready to to really understand it and internalizing it. So Ana, what are your thoughts? Can you tell us a little bit about how did Jung kick the door open to the concept of metaninoia to us? >> Yes. Well, the thing is that um we have to remember that Jung says that we are part of nature. The psych is part of nature, right? And um if we understand nature in its wisdom, so we are part of nature. Um we have uh we go through successful uh successive uh cycles right we have day and night we have the different seasons uh for instance you guys are in the summer I'm here freezing in the winter right but all of us in different parts of the globe go through different seasons and our psycholog uh psychological development also goes through different cycles So like childhood, adolescence, maturity, old age, >> right? So Jung realized that and he was of course kicking the door as Josetta said, not only about the ego that the ego is very much in the chronological time. You know the Josa was talking about the history of the world. let's say the theology of the world the word metaninoia and um of course if we understand uh that the the gods remember the time Kronos and Chyros so Kronos is the chronological time the the time of the watch right and the time that the ego is pretty much in for instance we are kind of worried here in a sense about the time that we have to talk and talk to the people because we have a limit time that of the podcast. But at the same time, we kind of get caught with the pleasure of being here and talking about spirituality and psychology and then this second time that can last forever like you know like 40 or 50 minutes. It's like a century here. No, I'm just joking. But emotionally and spiritually, yes, we can learn so much with each other. We can exchange ideas. We exchange vibrations with the people that are listening to us. It doesn't matter if in different times and space >> because then >> we are also we know that that's uh why said that Yung kicked the door because

vibrations with the people that are listening to us. It doesn't matter if in different times and space >> because then >> we are also we know that that's uh why said that Yung kicked the door because he didn't stay only in the ego and it's um and its relation to the information that it's coming from outside in the in the time and the space and from inside from the body and all of that. But it's like uh since he uh he went he dive into uh much deeper in the psych and uncovers the the reality of the self or our higher self, right? We could say. Mhm. >> So that we have a higher consciousness in the psych and that this higher consciousness is responsible for all the psychic development like in dreams, experiences, integrating everything. So of course uh if we go through different cycles >> uh it it will be like uh if I'm changing cycles let's say and especially especially uh after middle age we are talking about the gift of aging right and it's a gift because then when I get to middle age and after until middle age we are pretty much in the myth of the hero and the development velment of the ego adaptation to life and then we have the development of the persona our our social mask let's say right because the ego want to to adapt uh to this reality to the people around >> has to develop security moral and moral is in the second moral less in the second part but emotional and material autonomy all of that that's that's the task of the ego. But then we go to different cycle after middle age and then we have like Jung says like a disintegration of the ego let's say because then >> scary right is scary well let's not get psychotic not that but it's um about this changing that said this transformation right and is uh changing like um like the Greek philosophers uh realized because they we know that from spiritist knowledge they were talking about the soul. >> Yeah. >> Like 600 500 uh years before Christ Plato's and Socrates and all of that. So what happens is that yes there is a kind

e know that from spiritist knowledge they were talking about the soul. >> Yeah. >> Like 600 500 uh years before Christ Plato's and Socrates and all of that. So what happens is that yes there is a kind of a disintegration of the ego's previous structure the way that the ego was functioning because it's a it's a changing in a phase let's say right that the ego was pretty much uh pretty much in control of the the psych and then it has to understand that there is a higher higher consciousness. Joanna talks a lot about like awakening of the of our consciousness and awakening of the self young self of a of our higher self. >> So there is a calling and it's inner calling in the psych. So we are changing seasons let's say and we are going to another phase of development in our in our uh personality also right and yes it can bring like anxiety depression things like that especially if the ego kind of say I'm not listening I don't want to listen to this calling it it's like in in deny IO and and Jonah says this is very important for us to pay attention because since we are in a society that we kind of left a time where especially up until the 20th century I think um we historically speaking we pretty much previously we were pretty much like in developing um you know our subjectivity we could say uh arts we had the arts music the great composers right Moser and all of those beautiful composers and that we have studies from the brain that says that's the higher frequency that music for instance the classical bring to the brain so that's not my personal choice but it's Um it is uh what uh medicine and neurology says that the kind of music that really helps the brain to calm down and to vibrate in in uh frequencies that bring peace and mental health. And so we had all that development previously >> as a human race, right? All of this has got us to where we are now. Yeah. >> Yes. And then suddenly after the 20th century let's say you were talking Mara with all this we were talking previously

y >> as a human race, right? All of this has got us to where we are now. Yeah. >> Yes. And then suddenly after the 20th century let's say you were talking Mara with all this we were talking previously here right uh about all this technology all this information coming that we almost don't have time to reflect upon right and to get a book for instance read that book and reflect upon what it's there make relations no we we are bombarded with we could say with information from all over the place. So what happens is that we are in much more we could say that we were previously much more to feelings. We had the beautiful poets and all that philosophers and then nowadays we are pretty much in sensation and the pleasure and the material pleasure. Jonah talks about that when she talks about getting old and all the the you know the prejudice that um that it's connected nowadays. So previously uh people knew that they could die in any time of the life cycle right because we had epidemics and medicine was not so good so people wouldn't die young from infections things like that remember antibiotics think they appear only after the second world war right like penicellin >> it's incredible it's really incredible to See, because I I think if you don't mind, just to to to emphasize here, right, the idea that h as a society, we're living longer, but it has not been too long that we acquire this this ability to live longer and longer due to medicine and vaccinations, etc., etc. But now we are like, "Oh, but I I'm aging and that means I'm going to die." Which is back to the the central topic. Why are we so afraid of dying? Right. And I I don't know. Uh sorry to interrupt you. >> No, no, but it's exactly that. I was um you know just thinking about this why Jung says that we um kind of the ego the the previous structure of the ego has to disintegrate in a certain way because we are living one stage of life uh and supposedly we have more wisdom and you know more experiences >> we have we developed values

ous structure of the ego has to disintegrate in a certain way because we are living one stage of life uh and supposedly we have more wisdom and you know more experiences >> we have we developed values getting old with this gift of uh gift of aging. So what happens is that in the past the elders and I would love to hear about that the elders right were uh valued because they had they brought the with them the they guard let's say the values they brought the experiences of you know of the society the community so they would give advice Janna al always talks about that right they would that we can always give advice when we are getting old because we have had a lot of experiences so if we can integrate they can exist because I can say that I'm older right and that I'm kind of an elder let's say then I can um and like in the past even testify to daily life to say oh in the past this happened like that. It's not that this will have to happen like that all you know forever but if we know our past if we know our mistakes for instance right uh so but who is going to tell that the past was in the past was like this or that so that the next generation can you know can evaluate can balance things can yeah >> bring the modern and compare to the old and sometimes Well, this modernity, let's say it's not that good because you know my the elders said this and that and it function better in the past for instance for some aspect of life or the other way around. Well, that was not good in the past and the elders told us that the development of that was this and that. But now we have this way of so wow that's cool we can change that. So and I remember just that I also want to hear more about that that Chico Xavier said that we needed this balance. I think he said in that program here in Brazilian TV that is called Pinga Fogu that I don't know Marshall maybe you can translate that uh when somebody that was in 1970s something. Yeah, >> that when somebody asked them because it was the hippie movement.

at is called Pinga Fogu that I don't know Marshall maybe you can translate that uh when somebody that was in 1970s something. Yeah, >> that when somebody asked them because it was the hippie movement. >> Yeah. >> And somebody asked asked Shiko Xavier about the hippie movie and what he thought about that. And he was very diplomatic but also of course very spiritually connected. uh and he said uh both uh youngsters and and elders are necessary for this balance of life because young people bring creativity and all this energy and the elders bring experience and wisdom. >> Yeah, >> I don't know. I think for now it's okay, but I would love to hear you guys about that. >> I can add Yeah, go ahead. >> All right. We've been competing with each other for too long. You know, the the young and the the elders because, you know, we we all pretend we know better. Uh the the the youngers that think, you know, the the old way should not uh continue anymore. And uh the of course and the elderly that will say no, this is the best way or or I know things. and and one thing that we have to think that we are never going to build anything if we keep on destroying uh what came before right I mean we we add bricks we don't go there and put all the bricks down even if one of them perhaps was kind of uneven you go there you fix it but you keep on building and I think when we are talking about metaninoia from this perspective of young P p young perspective uh he says that uh it's like uh you know the the psyches natural attempt to heal itself disintegrating the ego's previous structure it this can come as a depression anxiety psychotic like states but rather than pathology they are viewed as a necessary breakdown thou for breakthrough. So >> beautiful. Yeah. >> Wonderful. Because you know uh then we think about the middle life crisis, >> right? Middle life crisis is going to to lead you to this anxiety to this depression. I I don't want it to get there. Like you said before, Marca before that was not a problem. We would

ife crisis, >> right? Middle life crisis is going to to lead you to this anxiety to this depression. I I don't want it to get there. Like you said before, Marca before that was not a problem. We would die so young. >> Yes. >> And that was a natural thing and we would never know when it was going to happen. Now we are following the decay of the human body and and and certain parts of our body that were not even supposed to, you know, to last that longer. I remember once I went to an opthalmologist here of Tommo here in in New York. And by the way, he treated John Leno and he told me that our eyes uh were made to last 50 years. So that has to be renewal in this whole whole system. So of course I I I he was the expert. I accept that. But I think you know this uh this period of the middle crisis when we get into this crisis >> if we hadn't uh we if we didn't take the chance before to learn to go through this breakdown to break through to to to get more in touch with our our inner selves the know thyself is inevitably going to happen because it doesn't matter how much uh you know we go to the gym or diet or plastic surgeon the the cells of our body there there's going to be a natural decay >> and we have even if I have you know my beautiful plastic surgery face people I'm still going to be you know an elderly person and I'll still have to go I'm one step closer to death >> so when we think about the spiritist perspective even the way that Olen Cardik put it in the spirits book right he's by first revealing to us uh in the second part of the book revealing to us the world of the spirits so already saying listen there is life after death >> and then he comes with you know the the aim of reincarnation and your purpose the purpose of the spirit here and then the spirit and then the discarnation and then reincarnation again. So that there is this cycle and a natural cycle where in every phase of our lives we should be learning and we should be collaborating with each other. I think what makes it very

reincarnation again. So that there is this cycle and a natural cycle where in every phase of our lives we should be learning and we should be collaborating with each other. I think what makes it very difficult it's that uh the elders take the young for granted and vice versa and then is when we don't have a common place and this way of thinking has to change and how does it change it changes when we we we accomplish this this kind of inner reflection uh when we start uh going beyond the prejudices and and and and and really looking at the the the people. I I remember when I was young and I I'm still so sorry I couldn't do that in this lifetime. Maybe it was not supposed to, but I was very young and I had a dream. There was one thing that I wanted to do in life that I didn't do, which was to open um an orphanage together with an an elderly house. And uh um I I mean this is deca decades ago. There was none of those kind of organizations in the world. And I could visualize, you know, the bond, the family, the elderlys that are, you know, forgotten in society by by their families and etc. thinking they have no value and the orphans that do not have emotional contact and how much one could benefit from mother, you know, gathering from experience, but at the same time naturally they would match. you know, there will be uh an elderly that will be, you know, more attra uh let's say uh taken by one of the the the orphans one or the other and that would would take under their wings and all that and and so I I thought, you know, bring emotion emotion bring this respect and understanding how much we need one another. Um well today I'm happy to know that there are some of those organizations in the world that some other people thought about it and managed to do it but but this is what we are talking about here. We don't need to go through this crisis to this to wait for this metaninoia crisis in middle ages. We we we should be taking uh e every every possible way uh that we are receiving from the experiences we

don't need to go through this crisis to this to wait for this metaninoia crisis in middle ages. We we we should be taking uh e every every possible way uh that we are receiving from the experiences we are living to to do you know to renew ourselves and to see the real purpose of us here and and and that is you know finding out about the spirit finding out about who you are and and and that you you're not going to perish. And regardless of physical body, I mean, you you're going to get a new one. >> And and you know what? You can even choose. >> Yeah. >> The more you evolve, the more you can choose how you're going to be in your next incarnation. So that's >> absolutely right. >> Yeah. and and um and I and I think that's exactly what we need to hear, Jasada, because those spiritual teachings and spiritual perspectives found in spiritism really start to help us refrain the experience of growing older, right? Just completely refrain and um and also help us perhaps overcome unconscious or not. societal biases in internalized agism that we all have, right? It's there and we quote unquote drink from the same Kool-Aid and and not only we we have those biases toward others, but now that we are all at some point get to face our own aging uh biological frame, right? And now how do I feel about this? How do I reconcile with that? And uh maybe one of you can talk perhaps about uh um what practices can we identify that could support that the meaningful or joyful life after middle age m middle age. And I I I love what you said an the before, the during the after, right? And it's after that we have this breaking the break uh breaking down to break through. I love it. Right. So what can we do to maybe all of us here present here in this life understand that those are the things that we can do to really help us reconcile with our own biases as well as societal prejudices. >> Yeah. But I think we there's something very important that we have to pay attention and it has to do with what

can do to really help us reconcile with our own biases as well as societal prejudices. >> Yeah. But I think we there's something very important that we have to pay attention and it has to do with what Josara was saying >> because Joanna Joanna asks us to >> uh when she talks about uh the concept is always there of this um self-discovery process that she's proposing to all of us, right? and and the way that we go so deeper um in this self-discovery process is only possible after middle age usually because it's not for everyone but for most of the people as I said in the beginning the the middle of until middle age the ego is there trying to adapt and adjust to this world uh so it has its tasks Let's say it has to to acquire some maturity, right? >> But um so Joanna also talks about moral and psychological then renewal that happens after this crisis let's say of metaninoia. But um and thinking about what Jonah said and what you ask um Marca, I think that it's very important to realize that u aging can be a gift as in the title of our podcast. >> Yeah. or uh the an an adventure let's say and or the person can uh feel as a misfortune because there are two different po positions let's say that we can deal uh with uh aging right we can integrate our experiences and our memories for instance and develop as in the past inner life psychological life, inner life and feelings, right? And also confront them with the passage of time that we were everything that we have experienced. So then we are going towards wisdom not only knowledge but wisdom right and also we can think that uh we can laugh as we were doing um at ourselves right >> we can even realize oh how silly I have been because I was paying such attention to this and that and now I understand that it's not important or that's not what life is about things like that and we can also free ourselves from a lot of conventions and concepts, preconcepts and prejudice and things like that >> because our attention goes to the inner

not what life is about things like that and we can also free ourselves from a lot of conventions and concepts, preconcepts and prejudice and things like that >> because our attention goes to the inner world. If we are doing this choice >> and not so much as previously uh to the outside world as you know the construction of the persona by the ego when we are young because we want everybody to like us. >> Yeah. >> We want to feel uh oh that everybody loves me and I'm accepted and I will have success in life and all of that. That's in the beginning until the middle age. But the other choice uh is for instance we can regret the time that has passed. >> Uh for instance when Jos was saying oh I wish I could have done that was a dream that I had. She was smiling. >> She understand that it I'm not interpreting you just I'm just just saying that I saw in your face that you were okay. You were smiling. you were not >> and it comes with wisdom, right? I just >> was wisdom. >> Yeah, you there's the loss of a dream, right? And maybe we could have said akin to the loss of a loved one, a loss of a job, a loss of uh a house going to whatever it is. The loss in your case was a dream that you had when you're quite young, a beautiful dream by the way. But when you realize no, not going to happen. But uh can you imagine all that uh you learn from holding on to that dream that is now giving the wisdom to recognize the beauty of institutions say that are doing exactly what once upon a time you you thought you'd be able to to build on. You know um >> we go through life fearing the next stage. >> Yeah. >> Right. You know when you are uh a kid right going to pre preschool then it comes the point that you're going to elementary school and now I have to have a different you know look at life at myself and then you go to high school >> and and then you you graduate and go to college and I mean go from you know um uh childhood to um teenager years to adulthood in it's various phases because you know it's

then you go to high school >> and and then you you graduate and go to college and I mean go from you know um uh childhood to um teenager years to adulthood in it's various phases because you know it's more than just one phase in adulthood and then when we come to the become middle age the same thing because it is new to us we will have new challenges but at the same time as Ana was saying we will have more discernment once I heard years ago in one spirit's a congress that we had in Miami. One of the speakers, he said that from the spiritist perspective, life starts at 50. I was much younger at that time and I thought, "Oh my god, I don't know if I could quite grasp what he was telling, but uh you know, from from the way he was telling it and the and it was something that I kept in my mind, >> right? I I I mean what he was trying to convey was you know there are certain experiences in life that you can only savor when you are more mature right uh a and this is it comes with deser discernment it comes with acceptance it comes with the growth of relationships it comes with the understanding of you know your environment work environment, family environment and even how you are now emotionally structured to deal with the good things without corrupting yourself >> and the bad things without you know falling to the ground >> because now you have a different perspective of life. So now that I I passed 50, I I I understand what he's saying in terms of certain experiences, how we can grow more from them because if they were to happen in my early stages, either I wouldn't be able to be dealing with them or I would have lost >> uh all the wisdom and experience that they could have uh brought to me. >> Yeah. Well, I think you know uh and when we were saying what can we do in practical terms I think it's you know love who you are >> love every phase that you find yourself and a and I mean stop thinking and judging yourself by others or how others are are are thinking about that I mean

rms I think it's you know love who you are >> love every phase that you find yourself and a and I mean stop thinking and judging yourself by others or how others are are are thinking about that I mean we are living in a society now that we were talking about ancestors and how so much of the history is lost. I mean people do not want to hear uh yesterday's news because there are so many news today. So we are in a very fluid society and but we are losing content. We are losing our roots and and this is important because it comes to a point where unless we we we are solid grounded to the you know to the earth in a certain way we're not going to be able to stand. So love your roots, your culture, who you are, what you are right now, and see it as an adventure. >> Yeah. >> There were good things. I mean, come on. You go through through teenager years. You have to to to to think about, you know, if you're a girl, go through your menes. >> Yes. >> If you're a and I mean, and the pimples and and and the eczema and all those things, you know, we go through. so many things right and we just uh put them behind and years after they they're gone and it's thing here now I mean there will be some you know decay I can testify to that >> uh but but but yeah I think we just have to be happy that we are living that we are having more opportunity to be here to to to make a mark in this world >> and uh to take advantage of all the learning that we can gather. I I can only imagine if I had died 30 years ago, I wouldn't have known anything about internet and all those things that we are doing. I mean I I I I feel so happy that I I I I still can be here and I'm preparing myself for the future everything that is going to come. So >> and still learning right Josada still adding to the learnings of your spirit. I I wanted to to hear from um Ana but wanted to perhaps before I give back for maybe your final thoughts on on the topic uh Ana but uh what we see here is aging does not mean a decline right it

pirit. I I wanted to to hear from um Ana but wanted to perhaps before I give back for maybe your final thoughts on on the topic uh Ana but uh what we see here is aging does not mean a decline right it can be a decline of some biological functions. You mentioned your eye, your opthalmologist talking about human eyes were not meant to to survive after 50 years of age, right? There are some biological organic decline. But age from a a spirit as well as a psychological perspective, it's actually the time of refinement. It is almost a polishing of the soul. And I I you find that from the teachings of Joanna the Angelus, right? Where she brings the idea of uh that's the time where we are really open and ready to expand our consciousness and the sacred, this is her words, the sacred return to the self. And uh we could think about it as the body starts to calm down, to quiet and allow the spirit to find its voice, if you will. Um I I I love the the the the lessons that Jonathan brings to us about aging and I wanted to hear maybe an if you had any final thoughts before we we start concluding our time together today. >> Yes. Um just to two things I think um remember that Joanna says that aging is a art and science >> right together. So uh we are talking about that the gift of aging uh so to to have this uh wisdom developed wisdom develop um realize that we are free like say to choose and I was talking about you know choose being a wisdom lady or or you know gentleman >> to to have this this wisdom and to to be uh able to testify um to the past you know saying yes I have lived that and I can tell you this and that to help the other generation that it's coming to the youngsters and all of that or we can choose to you know to because we are not able to face our shadows and Joanna talks about that self-discover and also to when we pay attention to our psych self discovery. So when the we when we turn our attention to ourselves to our inner world, one of the first characters that we are

out that self-discover and also to when we pay attention to our psych self discovery. So when the we when we turn our attention to ourselves to our inner world, one of the first characters that we are going to face is the our shadow aspects, right? >> Yeah. >> So and this is so so important because just to remember everyone that the shadows opposite to the persona. So the shadow are aspects that I have to deal with that are not so cool and that people are not say oh you are this and that you are great no I don't feel great that's the first uh reason why the the this content was repressed by the ego and went to my shadow um part of the psych right so all the repressed guilt fears and other feelings like that have to be dealt with. If we want wisdom to develop because if as Jung said, if I don't deal with my inner enemy, then I will keep on projecting enemies outside of myself, right? And I keep on with the denial of everything that I am and that I'm supposed to be. That's the process of individuation that Jung talks about to be this very original, very specific individual with all the experiences that I have lived, all the wisdom that my spirit has achieved and be able to be whole here in the world in this time, right? Develop my personality to be whole. then I'm making a difference in the collective. Unfortunately, what we see still to this day is that a lot of people caught in the appearance in the persona in the worried of what the outside world is going to say about me. And unfortunately, the social medias have a lot to do with that and up to this time. that I I think we are developing a higher consciousness and we are going to change this but until this moment uh it's going on pretty much like that and we have to pay attention to our inner world right so I would say let's remember what Joanna said it's aging is art and science reflecting upon every our experiences just as we have done today together with everybody that is listening to this podcast. And of course, if we do that,

what Joanna said it's aging is art and science reflecting upon every our experiences just as we have done today together with everybody that is listening to this podcast. And of course, if we do that, the choice is not going to be grumpy old people, but happy laughing at ourselves and, you know, having this freedom and this energy that it's not from the body, but it's from the soul. >> I think the world needs a lot of that. >> Yes, absolutely. So um just to to recap a little bit is um aging or reaching the so-called old age is almost like a right of passage, right? And what we mean by that is at that point that you start to see the dismantling of your ego illusions and you you start to to really being able to expand your consciousness and uh uh confront and even admire yourself. Uh I love that uh that we are able to to hit or find almost the sacred time to reconcile with ourselves to attain inner peace and really to deepen uh spiritually speaking what we need to be. So I I love it. I love that we get to age right. The technology has allowed us during this timeline, our uh our incarnations now to be able to to to grow older and to to get all the beauty that life has bestowed upon us, right? to unveil all the deeper truths to embrace the missions that perhaps perhaps were hidden behind the impulses of youth or the egoic constructs, the illusions of the ego to to be able to to uh attend the demands of the world. But with that, I just want to say thank you everyone for being here. Thank you. Let us all age gracefully. Let us align with the eternal and and and find perhaps simplicity in just being. Uh thank you. Thank you so much. And for all of you, if this is the first time you've been to our program, note that uh we meet weekly. This is um our podcast based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus. And uh we love that we get or I love that we get to to be here to kind of expand our spirituality concepts by juxtaposing them with this psychological lens. Thank you so much Jos. Thank you

D'Angelus. And uh we love that we get or I love that we get to to be here to kind of expand our spirituality concepts by juxtaposing them with this psychological lens. Thank you so much Jos. Thank you Ana. Thank you sponsors. Um, this program is sponsored by Mansandu Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, and Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the Medical Spiritist Association. We'll be back next week, and until then, thank you so much everyone. Byebye. Bye.