Ep 89 - Understanding Fear, a Holistic Perspective by Joanna de Angelis

hello everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality at Bridge to Better Life discussion I'm your host Merc and with me is Dr anay fona hi anay how you doing today I'm doing great thank you hello Marcia and hello everybody thank you thank thank you for being here and I I am fascinated with some Concepts around fear and would love to have you and I have a few minutes to talk about it and actually explore it further right I know that the subject is Broad it's complex it is even a a an underlying basic but multifaceted motion but I wanted to ask your permission that before we we talk about fear specifically can I talk about a movie that is considered today um far scarier than other R-rated horror movies so at the time when it was first released parents have been warned to be cautious about allowing children under high school age to watch it and should be prepared to talk to their kids about the movie because even teens may find it upsetting and uh I just find it interesting because even though it's been about 25 years since it was first released and actually a subject of comedic uh reference and spoofs all right watching the six cense today is just as impactful as it was in 1999 and I would say right that the timelessness of this movie is perhaps because it it deals with universal themes about life and death and in the movie I'm going to maybe give a little bit of the plot so we can talk about it fear in relation to to this move is that okay yeah great go ahead okay well the movie there's this nine-year-old little boy right Cole and uh he's he's a medium um not only he's a medium but he is quite isolated he's bullied by peers right at school and you could say is it because he's a psychic no it's really because he's unable to fit in right and people know that he can see things there's something odd about him but most importantly he's picked on because of inherently there's something different about him and if you can think about it we can extrapolate that idea to maybe

ings there's something odd about him but most importantly he's picked on because of inherently there's something different about him and if you can think about it we can extrapolate that idea to maybe anyone who has had a really difficult for example adolescence or a difficult life as a child that uh it's it's hard to fit in but uh in any case the movie in its darkest moments it it shows us how this boy Cole represents all of us the Misfits All the minorities or even individuals who are in the process of surviving abuse right his mother is amazing but uh there is some sort of abuse that you can see but it's mostly physical and mental right what are we talking about well he's being uh quote unquote disturbed by spirits and his six sense his mediumship is um allowing him or exposing him to uh domestic violence so she sees a woman in the kitchen right that was abused by her her husband previously he also saw in the house that he lives in a boy that was a victim of a um playing with a gun of a father for all sorts of scenes that makes him shrink and he's afraid right so he is a a child he's a victim of abuse and he he really is isolated and the the film if you go at it from a more of a psychological view you see that he is the only way that he can survive all of this is um to to be able to to be witness of the trauma right but to somehow start to interact with those who survived right so Dr Malcolm who is this this child psychologist treats him and and of course uh in the the course of treatment he understands that uh there's something very important for Cole to do which is in order to be able to confront all that life that uh at some point the child psychologist says that he's a schizophrenic that he's a neighbor to treat him and there's all sorts of uh issues with paranoia etc etc that in the end he knows that he must right he must confront and control and have a sense of ownership of his life by being healed by the child psychologist but also being able to offer help to those who are suffering so

nows that he must right he must confront and control and have a sense of ownership of his life by being healed by the child psychologist but also being able to offer help to those who are suffering so it's the dichotomy of he seen in the case spirits that went through some really gruesome death right but he's able to talk to them no longer with fear but as an instrument to to to support those people I don't know did you see this movie and can you can you talk a little bit uh because uh um I watched it twice back in the day and I was like I I mentioned quite Disturbed and and I'm spiritist I I know about the the the the issues around mediumship as well as the the survival of of a spirit through death Right There Is No Death there's only death of that physical body and uh in looking at it again recently I just thought thought can we talk about the fear that this little boy is going through that diminishes him to a point that he's just shrinking and and dealing with much more than he should be able to deal with wow I love six sense I love I many times yeah I love Bru Willies in the character of mar and the little boy is just great the actor you know they are really and well I think all the the plot and all the issues that the the movie is proposing us to think about it's just and it's it's so important to talk about that Mar because as you said you are a spiritist and you you understand you have the knowledge that uh we don't die actually the the Spirit uh is evolving and is Immortal and we are here learning in this wonderful experience of learning this opportunity but so why do we have all this fear of death for instance of ghosts right lots of movies scary movies uh but actually this is not um a terror you know movie about you know Terror um or really okay plays with our emotions and with our fears but it's actually um taking us some someplace so I would love first of all to tell you guys you and everybody else that is listening to us um a sentence of jna jeles and look what

s and with our fears but it's actually um taking us some someplace so I would love first of all to tell you guys you and everybody else that is listening to us um a sentence of jna jeles and look what she says and look how important is uh that you you know is bringing uh us the plot of the the movie The images of the movie so that we can have an example that is actually very important for these days that we are living and I we can talk about that but first of all sentence by Joanna okay okay fear is a universal experience yes that touches every individual at some point in life right it can be a protective mechanism warning us of danger we know that right we need this feeling of fear because otherwise in some moments we are not going to you know pay attention to the car that is coming when we are crossing the road and things like that but it can also become a debilitating force that paralyzes personal growth and spiritual evolution yes maybe Joanna was inspiring the director I I I I wondered about that because it's you know it fits so well yeah so let's go to the first part of what Jonah says that it can be a protective mechanism yeah uh warning us of danger how do we medical doctors and uh health professionals know that and people in general because we have reactions that are started in our brains right the spirit is using the brain and the body of course to live this experience and to connect uh to the outside world the external world but also the the learning process that is happening inside of in our internal world inside of ourselves in our souls okay so um connecting to this protective mechanism uh that Jonah says that it's warning us of danger so the fear reaction actually Mars and everybody else starts in the brain like we are we perceive something so it's an organic right it's it's part of our physical reaction to something out there yes and it's very ancient uh okay I don't want to put Yung and and everything else in the right in the beginning but we know that the

ght it's it's part of our physical reaction to something out there yes and it's very ancient uh okay I don't want to put Yung and and everything else in the right in the beginning but we know that the collective unconscious that Yung said is our spiritual and psychological inheritance right so that we the archetypes so the experiences that we all live uh are like um recorded in the collective unconscious so we share as Humanity this learn in this wonderful possibilities but we share all our experiences I think oh I'm an individual I'm leaving and I'm suffering and I'm doing everything by myself no you are not according to youung because we share yeah I I'm I'm just thinking thinking out loud here I hate horror movies if if if somebody says hey let's go to the movie uh the movie theater and I'm like well let me see what is the title let me see the plot right so I read in advance because I absolutely despise horror movies and I often wondered why is it that we have such an appetite for that type of movies right why are we and there are people that are almost addicted to watching uh those terrible scenes and and and that plague with our fears or our inner fears that are mostly universal as you mentioned and I I guess when you said that uh from a union perspective that is part of our Collective inconscious I'm start to think now that perhaps it is a way for Humanity to confront with those fears that otherwise is repressed yes great Mar yes exactly that uh because as Jonah says we have to confront our fears right it's a learning process and our brain that it's not our Quant Quantic computer whatever in the body right so it knows that because it's in our biology the all this uh instruments that we have our body um it's a fantastic it's a great instrument to to learning process in this world and to connect the different dimensions the material and the spiritual Dimension isn't that great right so we know that in our brains okay uh we have the re the fear reaction starts uh and spreads uh through the

ect the different dimensions the material and the spiritual Dimension isn't that great right so we know that in our brains okay uh we have the re the fear reaction starts uh and spreads uh through the body to make adjustments right uh for the best defense because if we REM in that defense we say the flight reaction fight or flight right reaction so it's a very old impulse U because of course when we were on the open in Africa or motherland right or we would have lions for instance and other pred Predators right yeah so how would we know that we have to run if we didn't learn that uh which animals would you know possibly kill us if we didn't do anything so I think it's very important that we have all this information but we are evolving and our Consciousness is evolving so we have to face our fears because something or some things that were um like threatening for us in the past are not anymore that's the tricky part yeah right uh we are not um you know on the open in the savannah with lions but there are probably people that uh want us to think that we you know are being threatened and also our environment and our culture is not very healthy at the moment I think because also of this manipulation let's say not yeah I was going to say no sorry to inter but I was going to say the words that came to my mind and and again in the context of Western Society right that is a society uh based on capitalism capitalism and individualism and consumerism right all of it feed each other with the alienating power that pushes us to do something to feel safe right and and that safety can be uh interpreted crazy that is but safety may be uh workaholic behaviors to safeguard a place in your company of employment or it could be the addiction to surgeries to stay youthful and guarantee visibility and there's so many really um behaviors that make no sense they those behaviors make no sense but in the end it's how we cope with our fears in a society that drives us to hold on to those fears

ility and there's so many really um behaviors that make no sense they those behaviors make no sense but in the end it's how we cope with our fears in a society that drives us to hold on to those fears because it it is monetized right yes it yes um beautifully s because you see um Mara um for um we have a the part of the B the brain okay at the region of the brain that is um responsible for initiating the process of uh of you know sending the message to the body there are lots of things that have to be done for us to fight our flight is the what we call the amigdala okay people can Google it and and go further if they want but it's amydala okay and it's in the temporal lobe of the brain and look at that it uh the Amna is dedicated to detecting the emotional part of the stimuli okay we are in a situation and we have to detect um the emotional part of the stimula so how much something stands out to us and for instance I'll give you an example um the migdala activates uh whenever we see in a human face for instance uh an emotion but the reaction is more um it's more pronounced with anger and fear that's why I was connecting to to today it's very very up toate this information that I think people need to realize because uh we were talking about Predators on the open but as you said in this world of ours that in the time these times that we are living what is a threat okay that we uh for instance um when um you see newspapers TV or whatever people showing in their faces a lot of anger a lot of um for instance and fear okay in something Collective for instance even if you are okay I'm I'm going there to say that I'm against this or that but I have responsibility to what how what I'm you know I'm sending the message that I'm sending because they are going to be lots of people looking at me so what happens is and imagine if we are together the riots and things all over the world so I look at that and the world seems very angry right yeah and automatically my amydala because I'm in a body my

what happens is and imagine if we are together the riots and things all over the world so I look at that and the world seems very angry right yeah and automatically my amydala because I'm in a body my spirit is here so I have a soul that it's using the the brain to understand uh where I am and the external world right so what happens is that my Amala is going to say you have to fight yeah because it's going to provoke the reaction it's a trigger for a fear reaction right so it a lots of things happen we have the hormones of the like cortisol hormones of stress and stimulation of sympathetic nervous systems that we know that make a lot of changes for instance the the heart uh the blood pressure increase the uh heart rate increases right right uh we have a breathing that accelerates and a lot of things happening to send more blood to the muscles into the brain to you know have some strategics to run so we could say that things in from this point of view the uh the emotional and the the function of the body also right the biological point of view and the emotional we are being stimulated to live in fear Mara exactly as you said yeah so we our brains are always like interpreting things all over the news and and whatever and people talking and Friends getting together it's all about fear so what happens is that you okay your body is no wonder we have depression and anxiety Rising like you know mad the the race um and we have um we have a lot of like burnout uh disease all over the globe you know and people can sleep well because of course the message is like you know if you are awake is like 24 hours the day you are awake exact because you know you are being yeah just think about it um in our society we have never been as able to be safe than now right what do we talk about we have uh let's say there's a police um uh there are uh alarms right alarm systems we we have all sorts of uh cameras that uh that detect motion and uh video tapes whatever the the source of the emotion we have all of that in to

a police um uh there are uh alarms right alarm systems we we have all sorts of uh cameras that uh that detect motion and uh video tapes whatever the the source of the emotion we have all of that in to to help us protect ourselves yet we've never been this afraid ever and and and I remember um and this dates me a little bit but uh when I first moved from Brazil to to the US and I came in I could actually understand that there is this enormous weight that fear is placed especially in Brazil why well because of of course a society with a very very uh in instance of inequality social economic inequality that leads to uh people stealing and uh and because of it I remember visiting family not just the other you know so long ago and here I am we we do everything with our cell phones just you know it doesn't matter we leave at our table and and I go to see my family no you have to actually have a second cell phone a really cheap one because if somebody attacks you they're going to take the bad one and you keep the old and like this is too much right uh regardless of that I still remember knowing many many decades ago actually how at that time it was almost I could touch almost fear it was part of everyday life and as I moved to a different country I just said you know what I'm not going to be afraid anymore and an I left my home that I lived always unlocked because I said there's no crime here now this is quite naive of me right yes but for years and years and years I left my home unlocked I never I I was never afraid and it's quite liberating when you start to see there is a gap between the reality of a dangerous situation and the reality that is created by the you know all this uh manipul as you mentioned type of society that monetizes and somehow uh pushes you to to to to live with fears and paranoia and anxiety etc etc yeah that's see Mara what we are doing right now with everybody else that is listening to us is the path that Joanna Jon says yes to confront and go deeper in the UN not only the

a and anxiety etc etc yeah that's see Mara what we are doing right now with everybody else that is listening to us is the path that Joanna Jon says yes to confront and go deeper in the UN not only the understanding but the healing of our fears right and um going ahead in our personal and spiritual growth it's not something that we should um oversee like oh there's no problem with that let's let's you know just I'm safe here or I'm not safe but it's okay I live no no we are talking about person growth and spiritual Evolution it's all about that because it that's exactly what we have we we have planed to do of course all of us that are you know thinking about these issues and really trying to understand deep deep deeper the world that we are living in and evolve okay but what I think it's important okay we have talked about the amydala and I'm uh uh remember in some scenes of the movie that you said po PA you know he was in a state of fear with I think was all the time receiving this information because the adults around him couldn't understand exactly what was going on even his mother wouldn't believe him if you remember she was very upset when he said something about the grandmother who had already died and was talking to would come to talk to him it was not only like spirits that were not very yeah very okay with you know and understanding their situation but the grandmother who loved him very much was there to help and the mother would be afraid of her own mother can you believe that yeah and even the possibility of that it okay that's true let's see it's a little boy let's see what he's talking about so there was a pendant or necklace it was a it was a bumblebee pendant oh yeah that that Grandma it was hers the grandma's and the mother would find that pendant in the boy's room so of course it's there's only two people living in the house and says I didn't I'm like I don't believe you because there's nobody else here it was Grandma Grandma so what is important if we go

room so of course it's there's only two people living in the house and says I didn't I'm like I don't believe you because there's nobody else here it was Grandma Grandma so what is important if we go back to the brain okay to the material part of this discussion yes uh is that there is a part of the brain that is called the hippocampus okay and it's closely connected with the amydala and the hippocampus and the pre prefrontal cortex they help the brain interpret uh the perceived threat okay so we have a part that perceives the amida and is going to send all the the different um reactions in the brain so to decide if I have to fight or flight but we have processing the information the hippocampus okay and um the prefrontal cortex that is very important to interpret but we need time we need a little time we have to deal with the situation do we have time nowadays it's a flood of information and everybody in the mobile as you shown okay oh here I am mine is here and all this stuff so um they are the hippocampus and the prefrontal cortex they are involved in a higher level processing uh context which helps a person um decide if the threat is real look at that so if I'm if I'm in denial like like CO's mother for instance if I'm um and a lot of us if we are looking at the news or what ever and our our amida is functioning but it's not having time okay to to S the information and to process the information through hippocampus and other parts of the cortex what's going to happen we are not going to believe we be denial we are not going to believe someone that is telling us something that it's going to make us think at least think of of that like Co mother right and the thing is that we never have the pathway to dampen the amida to decrease the functioning so we stay organically biologically in a state Perpetual state of fear yes that a lot of people and then we have all the psychiatr psychological diagnosis you know we have anxiety we have different types of anxiety we have panic attacks

in a state Perpetual state of fear yes that a lot of people and then we have all the psychiatr psychological diagnosis you know we have anxiety we have different types of anxiety we have panic attacks we have depression this and so on and so forth okay so what Joana says that I think it's um uh great and then I quote Joanna fear while natural often becomes a pervasive force that hinders the pursuit of self knowledge and spiritual growth so it can paralyze personal growth and spiritual Evolution Jah is talking to us about that so I think it's very very important Mara and everybody else that uh we need to use our body that it's so great so perfect has all the and I told you a little tiny bit of the reactions and biology involved but we we are the instrument of our we have this instrument and there all this capacity to to grow right and to evolve spiritually but we need we we need to use what was given to us by God by the Creator right and we have to use it and not get caught in this daily kind of unbalanced Collective that we are leing living in right and also uh I don't know if you want to comment because I want I I wanted very much to talk about Bruce Will's character Mal yeah let's do it let's do it because I I also have thought about it but let's hear from you your analysis of of Malcolm the child psychologist okay I love Malcolm by the way because he thinks is you know is kind of have a self-importance he's not not narcissist not nothing like that but he's pretty much in his Persona that's so great the Persona of the psychologist okay I know everything that it's going on yeah yeah but that's fantastic I think it's I quote Joanna again because she says that in the the root of many of our fears and I think this is very important for our discussion that it's bridging psychology and spirituality so I would like to focus in this um perspective because Janna says that the inheritance of guilt in the human unconscious yeah accounts for countless imbalances that unfold from it okay

d spirituality so I would like to focus in this um perspective because Janna says that the inheritance of guilt in the human unconscious yeah accounts for countless imbalances that unfold from it okay errors and crimes committed during the initial phase of conquest of reason and discernment of course she talking about past lives right in in in our in our path historically speaking as a human race right exactly so everything stays there in the collective unconscious we should remember that in the face of the Awakening of consciousness of course we would make a lot of we have made lots of of mistakes uh and even crimes okay in our spiritual past we were learning so but this kind of guilt okay that we know that they stay with us if we don't work them so we are here also to work through all these guilts and and like a um uh unaware to being unaware of who we truly are right so but she she says that reappear in the personality with embarrassing imposition not in frequently she says causing feelings of guilt unconsciously of course unconscious feelings of guilt which leads to fear so this is very different from what uh Freud says Yung says even Yung okay he went uh further deeper actually than Freud because Freud would say that our fears are based in our denial of U inner conflict psychological and unconscious and and Neurosis right some a lot of what he talked about was the neurotic uh behavior that we we all have yes yeah yeah exactly because then we the ego denies and represses and then of course the fear of what is uh in the unconscious will um be a great part of our neurotic patterns okay and okay Yung went deeper talking about the collective unconscious it's more holistic his View and the confrontation with our shadow aspects okay he goes there but he never said what Joanna says that our guilt feelings of guilt can uh many of them are not from this life yes and they they are there in the collective unconscious because of mistakes and difficulties from other lives and they can lead to

guilt feelings of guilt can uh many of them are not from this life yes and they they are there in the collective unconscious because of mistakes and difficulties from other lives and they can lead to fear and we see this Marsha a lot in clinical work because there are a lot of people that you can't explain why you know they live in such fear you can see that the fear is in the basis of their neurotic patterns or you know they and it's paralyzing sometimes right it paralyzing yeah yeah so what I um wanted to use malol as an example okay I'm I'm I'm talking to you and imagining I would love people to imagine there was a scene where he goes to that that scene is fantastic he goes to the boy's house yes and when the when the scene starts he's talking to the mother and I was so naive I said well yeah he's talking to the mother every child psych psychologist or psychiatr at some point has to talk to the mother father and responsible adults but Spar aler you you already gave all this spoilers for everybody else but uh we never notice until you see the movie again that she's never looking at him he's the only one that is talking isn't that great and he's in his Persona of you know the the great psychologist and all and all that and then he's waiting actually for Cole so then Cole goes with him and the mother is talking only to Cole but we think okay she's telling them to leave and everything else but I think it's something real important that he was so protected by his Persona he was so identified with his Persona that he couldn't acknowledge what was in his shadow aspects that was the fear of discovering that he was dead in a sense and the guilt that he uh had been feeling previously to that and if you guys remember uh there is a when he starts remembering things to help Cole it was actually the the little boy was the psychologist spiritual spiritual and it's quite um I don't know if the best word would be cathartic but um working with this little boy that so needed help

e it was actually the the little boy was the psychologist spiritual spiritual and it's quite um I don't know if the best word would be cathartic but um working with this little boy that so needed help he the child actually unburdened uh the child psychologist Malcolm right Dr Malcolm of his guilt right and and of his past that he repressed including the fact that he may not have been such a good husband after all right I was going to say that we are really yeah I was going to say that he may not have because he was so involved with his work and career remember yeah yeah and um he never told and he I don't I'm not sure if he never told or he didn't um uh like he didn't tell enough uh his wife that he loved her right uh he wouldn't pay much attention to her something like that and also Mar remember that uh when he remembers in the end or I think he was a studying the case of of a little boy that was similar to Cole's case yeah and then he puts in the tape recorder uh the session yeah and then he realized that uh he he hadn't seen that before that um when he leaves the room there was another person because he was alone with the little boy he there was another voice in the tape recorder and um I'm asking for uh forgiveness to people that speak in Spanish because my Spanish is not that good but the spirit who was talking with the boy would say something jono I don't want to die and was repeating that yeah to the little boy and the little boy since Cole since Malcolm couldn't understand what was going on with that little boy the little boy grew up unbalanced yes and ends up killing Malcolm right yeah he's the agent yeah the agent to end that relationship with himself and with in this case Dr Malcolm and Dr malol yeah and it's really great because then he makes the connection he has the Insight that cuse actually then he I think he goes I'm not sure the the the in which part of the movie because then he goes to the hospital where Cole is because of the bullying situation and

has the Insight that cuse actually then he I think he goes I'm not sure the the the in which part of the movie because then he goes to the hospital where Cole is because of the bullying situation and uh he that's sentence everybody now nowadays it's in the culture culture that asked the boy what's going on really going on and he sees and he says I see that I see that people right yeah I think it's yes yes he wants him to you are not going to trust H to trust me and he said no I will trust you and then he finally says I see that people the little boy so I think this is very important because malcol if was U it's a good example of what Joanna is saying he was feeling guilty Pro unconsciously abolutely yeah absolutely mostly his whole life because he knew he couldn't in the unconscious he he wasn't doing this job of trying to really listen to some of his patients not that he no matter how good he was right no matter how he was an uh uh received awards for his work but uh his mission was to listen but he didn't he presented his own biases right and and I if I were to to just say something that it it stayed with me in watching this movie is that how it is all about transforming you know Shadow work right the darkness within into light transforming the pain that you carry into healing or the trauma that we all bring in to a sense of Harmony a sense of love so I I I think that's why this is such an important movie and even if we got all the spoilers please do take a minute uh to to watch it because it's really worth it to look at it from many different angles but spec especially to me the angle of understanding the pain that uh actually is in everyone one of those characters the wife the husband the child the mother everybody is going through some sort of pain yes well um let's uh make some challenge to people that uh are listening to us actually we didn't give all the spoilers there are lots of and people go when look at six sense again and there is a wonderful uh scene in the

make some challenge to people that uh are listening to us actually we didn't give all the spoilers there are lots of and people go when look at six sense again and there is a wonderful uh scene in the in the church inside the church yeah yeah that I think it's very because it's all about um it's like a Psychotherapy yeah but I think it's very important also that it's um a child and well and there's all all the the help of the little girl the spirit of the little girl so a lot of things but I think you said beautifully Mara that it's all about transforming the shadow within us in light because this is the process of any good psychotherapy but in a holistic point of you that join psychology and spirituality and I I would um I know we have not much time but Joanna says that the path to grow is to confront our fears through selfawareness spiritual practices and psychological resilience yeah so I wanted to make here um an experiment let's say with you and everybody else yes because I I knew we were going this is one of my favorite movies I I also don't like horror movies but uh this is not horror at all because it's it's not exactly what Jan is saying a path it's an a beautiful example as a path to grow and self-awareness and spiritual practices and also psychological practice because everybody's kind of treating everybody psychologically learning together right but previously and then I I'll say goodbye with that I in in a synchronistic um experimentation let's say I opened a small book by Joanna that it uh when you open by chance uh she has a small sentences okay and this is moments of Health okay so um I think it's a beautiful kind of a small ending because it's never ending our search for ourselves and for the Divine but I'm quite sure she wanted me to tell all of you uh this sentence because I was was trying to connect to her and I opened this little book by chance and look at the message okay the Divine Consciousness irrigates me with peace my misunderstandings are elucidated and I

cause I was was trying to connect to her and I opened this little book by chance and look at the message okay the Divine Consciousness irrigates me with peace my misunderstandings are elucidated and I calm down considering the immense possibilities of balance that are within my reach before me the present elaborating the future the past is the lessons learned and the advantage of knowledge serving as a support for inner growth I trust and renew myself reassuring myself in the light isn't that beautiful that is truly truly beautiful and uh I just want to say thank you for leaving those words at the end of our conversation today and uh if I were to just uh uh you know wrap it up with the the notion of the sixense which is all about a story of a little boy that grew up and he was not healed right and uh it begins this Saga if you will this story of damage of uh surviving but but also the the warning that is given to all of us let's take each other seriously right let's listen truly listen to one another so that you are able to achieve that likeness that peace that Joanna talks to us as I close our time today I just want to say if this was the first time that you are here with us listening to our program the psychology in spiritual spirituality sorry weekly talks it is based on the works by Joan the angelist and we're here to offer this I would say cool right this safe this funny space that we can laugh and we can smile we can also really go deep into some Concepts and be able to expand spirituality Concepts from this psychological point of view so before we end I just want to also say thank you for the organizations that are sponsoring this program TV man Cino the United States Spirits Federation the international spiritist counil and army Brazil and if you haven't done so please take a moment to subscribe and if you have any thoughts any ideas any questions please do put them in the chat window we'd love to hear from you with that I want to say anay goodbye see you

so please take a moment to subscribe and if you have any thoughts any ideas any questions please do put them in the chat window we'd love to hear from you with that I want to say anay goodbye see you next time bye-bye byebye Mara bye bye everybody