Ep 78 - The Apocalypse of the Soul

hi everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to Better Life discussion I'm your host Marcia tanu and with me are Dr anai fona and J corn go so so good to be with you again and it's also good because we're here to do two things number one is to discuss Alan cardex the book The Genesis in relationship to the concept of uh regeneration why are we doing this that's my second topic it's because last time we met we talked about yung's apocalypse archetype and the two concepts really Mash together so it be really interesting for all of us to to to ponder more about this topic at large but um you may wonder about the topic right um we started this topic last time asking ourselves asking you why are visions of the end of the world so prevalent in our popular culture today and I I laugh because it seems that the one thing there are many things that we have in common but the the one thing that the three of us have in common is that we all love movies that talk about exactly that right so uh Star Trek Star Wars and so on so forth it seems to be our connecting points but why why is it so prevalent and why is it so appealing to us why are these themes and I'm talking about apocalyptic themes being replicated and we can think about they have they've been replicated from many different cultures from many different uh uh centuries in in in fact across Millennia right and if you think about just research and you see the theme in art religion science philosophy and interesting enough today in this day this Century everywhere in our media right and I ask you I ask me I ask all of us what does it mean to to all of us this idea of the end of something the end of the days the idea of the apocalyptic material from our unconscious is truly scary to me and I believe it's to most of us so one on one hand we can discuss about the potential for transformation which is different right quite different from that perspective of this materialistic pessimistic end of the world or Doomsday right this is an

and we can discuss about the potential for transformation which is different right quite different from that perspective of this materialistic pessimistic end of the world or Doomsday right this is an Outlook that looks at the end of only focusing at the end of our planet the end of our world but I started to talk too much sorry before we start a conversation in Earnest let's talk a little bit about our podcast because you may not have heard us before if this is your first time please note the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the words by Joanna deangeles and they offer safe space to confront topics including this one no matter how difficult they are and uh Joanna d'angels brings this psychological lens and confronts it with a spiritual concept and they really open our eyes and our minds to understand how can we live a better life based on those discussions please note today's program is sponsored by TV melamino the United States Spirits Federation and the international spiritual Council as well as Amy Brazil make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already done so so Jay and you out there I mentioned that we discussed this archetype of Apocalypse last time we met and I also talked about this fascination with the idea of uh the end of life the end of the days doomsday and and I also mentioned last time that there's so many movies about it but um an What does Jah d'angeles say about this topic can we maybe break it down from a psychological and spiritual lens what you think you oh well okay great to be here again with you guys so just to remind people that maybe haven't seen our other talk that apocalyps comes the word comes from Greek right and it means to take the covering away from right perhaps from what has been secret revealing what has been invisible right that's the definition of the world Apocalypse in Greek and talking about Joanna in her wonderful book The conscious being uh Joanna says that's let's start by that probably it's very provocative

right that's the definition of the world Apocalypse in Greek and talking about Joanna in her wonderful book The conscious being uh Joanna says that's let's start by that probably it's very provocative when she talks about Giants of the soul and she's talking about resentment envy and jealousy right and she says um and I quote individuals are invelop in the patness of egotistical aspirations they live their lives pressured by the need to project their own image because they feel incapable of overcoming their shadow in order to manifest the strength of the real self capital S the image and likeness of God so I was listening to you Martha and I was thinking wow if we are talking about apocalypse because said yes we all love this kind of movies and I want to here just start saying why do we need to take a ship to go out in the cosmos and live our beautiful beautiful planet it's not about that right but we want to hear Z it's all about our inner world that is kind of in a sense falling apart in a sense something is being because something is being revealed something is being uh something that was invisible to our ego Consciousness is coming to surface and I think it's great because in this uh sentence by Joanna she's talking exactly about that that uh you know we if we stay in the patters of egotistical aspiration in a sense serving the ego at the desires of the ego and the needs of the ego all the time not that we don't have to pay attention because the ego is doing the hard work of adapting to this world but the our world is changing as you said is going to be talking about this too and um so and of course um we are uh interconnected with among ourselves that's spirituality from psychological point of view and we are interconnected with everything with nature with the world everything that happens inside of us reflects outside of us all right and everything that happens outside of us has some answer within ourselves within our psych so if there is something going on and there is we know there's a shift

f us reflects outside of us all right and everything that happens outside of us has some answer within ourselves within our psych so if there is something going on and there is we know there's a shift of Consciousness happening uh so of course the ego is going to be threatened that wow my world is falling apart well let's see some apocalyptic movies and things like that like a catarsis like some I put some of my anxious anxiety out out of myself but actually I should be kind of meditating and looking Within Myself right because the information of what's going to be revealed or actually it's already happening uh is within myself but I don't want to go further we can go later I want to uh hear Justa yes so just to to do a transition from an I talked about apocalypse and the materialistic View and you quote Joanna saying hey like first of all the definition apocalypsis to really take away the veil of what we don't see and she she brings the idea of the Apocalypse of the Soul right the the end of the Soul so just I'd love to hear from you and I see you put an image do you want to to share that image yeah let me do that yes uh that is a m image that I I I was planning to send to you guys uh before I didn't have the time it's uh an image that I saw in the in a place there in a CI uh and I immediately thought about the two of you and and while you were talking about the the meaning of the world word apocalypsis and and you know to remove the cover right was thinking about the personas yeah right which is exactly what we are trying to do here we are trying to eliminate this dominant Dominion of uh you know the the ego so that the self can present itself so we have to uncover something and this process of uncovering something means you know to to show your real self and and um before we continue would you like to say anything about the image because otherwise we can we can well let me let me just describe because uh for those of you who cannot see it this is a beautiful beautiful sculpture in aisi

you like to say anything about the image because otherwise we can we can well let me let me just describe because uh for those of you who cannot see it this is a beautiful beautiful sculpture in aisi Italy and it is a one phas behind another face and the face in front they're detached is a to to me it's a very uh human face right a very uh you could see somebody looking like that but behind there's somebody more um and this is made of perhaps bronze I don't know or bronze so uh and it's in in the air it's open but it's quite interesting to have one object with two different faces one in front of the other and there's a space in between an what do you thought thoughts about this image which came by a surprise to everyone just just pred us to with this image I love I love the way that just had thought about the image because yes uh we can think of the Persona and when we um is the first um is the mask the social mask right so it would be the face in the front um that it's serious but it's okay even if you look a little calm Serene we could say but behind the mask so the the other face that it's the same um the same uh head right yeah so the other face behind this of the same hat for me at least um I don't know if J saw in person but I don't know if it's kind of grumpy or sad it looks like sad or some it looks like sad and yeah it came exactly in Joanna's sentence because she said um the image that we project right onto you know outside of us so our sh our Persona our social mask and that we feel incapable of overcoming the shadow so the what's hidden what it's uh not suppose the ego feels afraid that it's going to to appear so repress or deny and puts in the unconscious I felt the same way and I by the way I felt that is somebody that is feels incapable or unable to meet the world on its own without that mass the social MK yeah yeah and you know what JN is saying that um if we don't overcome the shadow like integrate the shadow realize that it's there be compassionate to our

ld on its own without that mass the social MK yeah yeah and you know what JN is saying that um if we don't overcome the shadow like integrate the shadow realize that it's there be compassionate to our uh you know weak let's say or nasty aspects of our you know our psyche so what's going to happen is that um we need to do death this to manifest the strength of the real self that Joanna says is the image and likeness of God so how come we we have to be a little apocalyptic people because we need this transformation we need to uncover what's hidden so that we can because Yung would say when we look inside because he says that if we look outside uh you are like uh dreaming if you look inside then you awake aw yeah yeah it's so awaken so if we look inside and he would also say that the first um uh like subpersonality the first complex that you face is your Shadow right so let's look at this image that J brought so if you take up the mask of serene being right then you're going to see what's behind maybe the sadness maybe the helplessness or whatever and it is very important for the ego for our Consciousness to look at that to integrate acknowled know that we have these aspects within ourselves because if we do that then there is something very beautiful that Joanna and Yung say then you can be compassionate towards others because you recognize in your brother and sister of humanity the same difficulties the same aspects that you yourself have so that's the path and and to be compassionate to be forgiving right are all qualities of the self capital S as Janna say our says our spirit the likeness of God that's so wonderful J said I love that you brought this image and I think it's interesting that you mentioned compassion now because you know I was thinking while looking more at the this scultpure now I don't know what was the intention of this sculpure of course but uh uh I think at the same time it can be a reminder to us all that regardless of me seeing a very composed person before

cultpure now I don't know what was the intention of this sculpure of course but uh uh I think at the same time it can be a reminder to us all that regardless of me seeing a very composed person before me uh there is sadness there is anguish there is uh doubts and and and and and and maybe if we could look at people this way that we are all going through so many turmoils and um this is what the in in in my point of view the apocalyps means you know to be able to you know think that we are talking more about the apocalypse of the Soul than the apocalyps that is going to you know bring uh calamities to planet Earth because you know we are the ones that are bringing calamities to the the world and if we don't fix ourselves you know there will be of course you know very bad days in our future and the way we you know um we are attracted by all of this because somehow we are attracted by by uh what brings us fear you see the horror movies and you know those end of days movies and uh and there is one comment by Marie Louise friend that she in a video where um uh Yung is is is talking about the um apocalyptic archetype right where she says that somehow we you know those are the images we are fitting uh the minds of everyone including our youth because all the time uh in the films for instance we are showing the the end of the world and moving to a different planet and saying I can discard the this one like you know uh we we discard everything else but uh but she says this is the not not the right approach the right approach would be for us to say what can we do to fix all this and um it does start within us in the the book Genesis by Alan cardic in the chapter 18 there is comment that it says that it's not in Trails of the planet there are being steered up in those times but those of humankind and so this is where we have to think in terms of apocalypsis in in a totally different way it's removing the cover removing our you know the imperfections that is still do not allow us uh to show

ind and so this is where we have to think in terms of apocalypsis in in a totally different way it's removing the cover removing our you know the imperfections that is still do not allow us uh to show ourselves to the world so that perhaps we can meet compassion and compassion towards our brothers and sisters can fix each other right this is this is quite gorgeous uh that you married not only an image in somewhere in Italy in a cc Italy with the words of Joanna deangeles and then uh card Al CeX uh uh chapter 18th of his book The Genesis where um in my opinion it it brings a message of Hope right a message of uh rebirth or regeneration which is would be generation again right a a a new cycle that is been recreated and and I really like it that uh that's where we're going with the idea of the Apocalypse of the soul but can we talk about this process which is quite painful how does it work that we have and we're not going to kill the ego but we're going to perhaps minimize the egoic constructs in our lives our our complete uh identification with a materialistic view of the world and having the strength to be in this image that sad vulnerable being behind the rather Noble one in front right which is just a a Persona how how how do we do this love to hear from either of you I I must say Marsha that for in front of a psychiatrist H when you say we are not going to kill the and I oh thanks God let's not so the message here no killing no killing including no killing of the ego yeah because it would be like you know going mad or psychotic or something yes yes so disorganized or whatever we need a strong and mature ego not like Jonah says many many times not uh not stuck in childhood right not like like spiritual children so that's why it's so important uh that she talks a lot about the young self being our spirit but I I want to when I was listening to you uh just to say that it's very interesting because last time you were talking um and and just talked about Von France uh

bout the young self being our spirit but I I want to when I was listening to you uh just to say that it's very interesting because last time you were talking um and and just talked about Von France uh when she talks uh you know about well let's uh take care of what images we are feeding our uh youngsters right yeah and um and that Joanna says something quite similar as Yung because Yung last time we were talking he says the world hangs on a thin threed and that is the psych of man and Joan is going to say in the conscious beings the greatest and most pressing problem to be solved is the human being per se yes so it's um solving this problem right she says requires psychological maturity so we need to take care of our youngest the young people right and to the images and movies and the culture what we are feeling they are psych right the images and the issues that we are talking about and of course uh because if we're talking about something that is ending we are at the same time talking about something that is being born in the psych absolutely it's death and rebirth right so I said okay we are going to like clean things up pay attention to our shadows do the work of uh spiritual and psychological Evolution to mature to have a to understand our complexes our problems but why because something is being born in the psych we are on the verge of a shift everybody's talking about that in different uh ways but the message is the same a shift of Consciousness we are evolving and Joanna says um I will have to tell you this because it's wonderful the transience of the Human Condition yeah in the transience of The Human Condition the Deep self so like our higher self our higher Consciousness must emerge and unleash its innate invaluable resources thanks to which the psychic consciously com consciously commands Life opening the immense range of paranormal perception I love that because I research about anomalous experiences and I was wondering why is um Joanna talking about

nsciously com consciously commands Life opening the immense range of paranormal perception I love that because I research about anomalous experiences and I was wondering why is um Joanna talking about paranormal perceptions because she's saying since the self is in the depths of the of the psych what we call the transpersonal dimension of the site the collective unconscious and of course is totally connected with the spiritual Dimensions right so that's why uh Janna says one of the reasons that yung's self capital S is our spirit so the forces of the spirit the knowledge of our spirit must be Unleashed what do you think guys what do you think Sara oh yeah I I was thinking so many things right now this topic is so fascinating there are so many angles that we can go through to talk about it and one of the things that came to my mind is whe there we go with just the you know the proposal the the what Yung has had has um presented to us in terms of the archetypes being you know this uh uh Collective thing that comes from you know from from from ancient times or if we go with the theory of reincarnation um at the end it means that we are all carrying the the remembrances of worse times than we are living now because we you look at history uh we may think that today is not we are not living a great time but look back look 50 years back look eight years back when we were we was uh were in a second world war for instance and look centuries back and and ours it a a history of uh fight uh to dominate one people upon the other and and wars and then the destructions of Kingdoms and this and that so this is what we bring in us and somehow I think that uh because we live that so many times and and we bring this in terms of you know the AR types or or the The Reincarnation remembrance we think it's going to end the same way because that was how it ended so many times before so it's very hard for a human being to imagine what they have never lived we never live that much times of peace and understanding

o end the same way because that was how it ended so many times before so it's very hard for a human being to imagine what they have never lived we never live that much times of peace and understanding and that's why I think in the in the book Genesis again when when kardak mentions the new generation it it talks about you know um even ourselves as a Spirits how we are evolving because before I wouldn't I wouldn't have any problem in just killing my enemies or you know people that I I have no empathy with but but today we have we have ethics we have moral we we know uh and each time more we are like uh he says here we we are seeing attempts to useful reforms generous ideas that has been uh brought to light by by so many so many things and how you know this uh growing this personal growing and coming back again to what we were talking before The Apocalypse of the Soul you know not in killing it uh but in destroying it in a good way is very much like you know a very silly image that just came to my mind but I wanted to share with you you know it's like I I need I need to clean my house right the house is uh it's dirty I let's say I was away for a certain time now I need to come and and and put everything in order remove the dust Etc so I have to do this cleansing and it doesn't mean because my house is dirty now that I'm going to destroy it and just you know let's go to someplace else where it's clean now I'm going to go through the process of this cleansing but it's still my house it's it's still me like you said and I eat the E the healthy ego and the compassion right when you when you clean with love and care and honor this is your place that you live it's the same way that I see us looking into this journey this inward journey to ourselves and looking at our shadow the things that we prefer to repress we prefer we need to repress with love and compassion and bringing up and highlight that as part of who we are forgiving those things that perhaps at this point we're not able to accept but

to repress we prefer we need to repress with love and compassion and bringing up and highlight that as part of who we are forgiving those things that perhaps at this point we're not able to accept but we should nevertheless that individuation path right but I have a a different um image that came to my mind um that I was hoping maybe to get a a thought or reaction from both of you which is um a recent series forgive me for be talking about TV here but the amazing British actress I Coleman she is the narrator of this new series that is out there uh called becoming you right so it looks at the first 2,000 days of about a 100 children and it talks about the psychological development there's a physical but also psychological development of those kids and one of the things in the first episode of the series that just became became amazing to me was the fact that uh uh Olivia Coleman shows this baby right still before it is born and then first days and then a 100 days and when it's before it reaches 2,000 day uh not 2,000 the first two years right it is still does not recognize as the baby is an individual so it's very interesting to see this young creature right that I'm creature the human being right this young human being that is walking is able to verbalize it's very able to think with a child and in looking at the mirror the baby says Mama for the mommy baby right Mama baby and then it talks about the moment where the neps hits later on when that baby recognizes its own image and and then it the the the the the series start talk about the terrible toos it's all about me it's I'm I'm a being and it's me me me my my mind and it's the the time of any child's or parents time when it's very difficult because this baby that was once compliant is now become a little quote air quote a monster because it's so egocentric it's all about the me and I I just thinking about it's not again not killing the ego but understanding that the path of its own psychological maturity that child had to First

ecause it's so egocentric it's all about the me and I I just thinking about it's not again not killing the ego but understanding that the path of its own psychological maturity that child had to First recognize as a a being an individual to then overcome that maybe couple of years later to become a more mature individual with with less um being less dominated by all the egocentric impulses of this is mine this is for me this is nobody else I I just thought was interesting as we're talking about the The Apocalypse of the Soul we build but we kill right not kill not kill way I say it now maybe we could just start sharing image the what you just brought U yeah I mean it was just something that came to my mind is that um you know this according to what we have in the spirit's book we have uh the moral laws and one of them is the uh talks about survival and uh the law of preservation so I I I think the first reaction that will come to human beings and of course Dr an will be much much more uh you know uh have much more inputs to give than I do it's but I I I think it's about uh this is the first being that I'm recognizing and uh and I have to express uh what I need to my survival so I will cry when I'm hungry I will cry when I'm I I feel tired and it's not necessarily just about selfs perhaps but it's about me realizing that I I have needs and I have to survive but I still haven't recognized all others because I do not have this maturity I I barely getting into the stage now that I see myself and and relating to what we are talking about here you know um uh when we go into into adulthood perhaps we bring that without mature maturing psychologically speaking in a way that I still want to think just about myself but I myself in the sense of uh uh the material things that are going to please me and my senses and even if I have to uh put aside my spiritual uh needs my spiritual desires because the they are hard to achieve so when we were talking about this you know um we are dooming planet Earth with h

ses and even if I have to uh put aside my spiritual uh needs my spiritual desires because the they are hard to achieve so when we were talking about this you know um we are dooming planet Earth with h the lack of you know uh of care that we have for the planet for recycling for the the use of water all the other things you know in and throwing Plastics into the ocean healing the fish and all this uh so there is only one solution I have to move to a different place no the the only solution here is to go through this apocalyptic of apocalypsis of the Soul where you realize that you have the same way that you had the power should just think about yourself act like you are in your terrible twos when you are 30s 40 50s 60 80s this is the thing uh this is the hard way and and uh we try I mean the hard way that will take me out from my comfortable zone is it's not the one that is going to be normally our first uh Choice yeah uh but then yeah we are pushed by circumstances by the reactions of the actions that we are now imposing the planet yeah and in ourselves yeah and know you what are your thoughts wow a lot of thoughts and I don't think we have enough time but I thought uh uh quickly just so we can talk later in some other time but um we have in depth psychology young psychology um what we call ego self access so the connection between the ego and the self okay it's a a theory that for instance when we are born so if we join that it's our um uh goal here to join spirituality and psychology so if we think that we are born here the Spirit uh incarnates right incarnates and so as Jung says we are in the first Freud never says that's because he for him is just the ego e Eid and Super E but uh when we incarnate and the baby is born the self is there the self is not somewhere um place else it's there um already with the baby but the ego is being born let's say so that's what it say it's a construction right and I it's a construction it's interaction uh with mother with breast

place else it's there um already with the baby but the ego is being born let's say so that's what it say it's a construction right and I it's a construction it's interaction uh with mother with breast breastfeeding so important eye to eye so it's all the development that has been studied a lot by frud and all other um thinkers and scientists and medical doctors so and psychologists so the ego is developing and that's why in the the first moments um the children and the mother are one and the same for the the child yes and it um the child starts learning little by little that that it okay the mother is someone else right there's another uh that besides myself but who am I so the sense of being right uh the sense of self let's say then small s not capital S is being born okay the ego is developing and it reaches a point as you said that well first is a baby but then it's me then it the baby in the mirror at some point toddler or whatever then it already say the name his name he recognized she her recognize thems okay so this is something but um if we are talking about the the self capital S and the our spirit and the ego um so the ego is being born right and it has to uh leave kind of leave um and U goes further apart from the self so that the ego can exist and a personality can be formed here in this life but then so then growing up finding myself developing a mature ego and strong ego what does the ego have to do go back to the right realize that there is a higher Consciousness so that's what we are talking death and reverse all the time uh for evolution evolutionary process and even here in this life in this personality in this experience so we go back uh in a sense of I have to recognize there is um a higher self Within Myself right a voice a knowledge um oh and great has put here that the name of the sculpture is man against himself yes so let's not be against ourselves let let's be Pro ourselves and together and uh talking about all this and listening to what J said um when we are

the name of the sculpture is man against himself yes so let's not be against ourselves let let's be Pro ourselves and together and uh talking about all this and listening to what J said um when we are near closing time here uh but then I want to close with one of Joanna's two actually thoughts of Joanna one is the when she beautifully says that Jesus urged his disciples to seek the liberating truth in which the ego and the self merge in a formula of Love without masks or conflicts oh wow it's not mer yeah perfect it's not merg in a sense of uh losing itself right the ego is going to be there until death does a part right yeah uh but um talking about the ego self access but it has to get closer as as as closer uh as possible Right closest possible and um because uh it we have to be in balance and we have to learn how to listen to ourselves because and uh you know the self being the spirit knows what uh we are supposed to do in this life and uh towards where we are heading and to finish uh here my collaboration at this point um Joanna talks about love therapy and we are talking about uh the love towards ourselves so it's not man against himself uh men learning and of course men in general women men learning to love themselves and she says it's fundamental the love therapy for any treatment of emotional imbalance and don't we need that uh and for the connection with the Divine thought isn't that beautiful because there is the answer in the Divine thought in God is the answer to our journey of evolution so I think let's do love therapy with ourselves oh yes absolutely absolutely so I think there's so many um Concepts that we talked about it today right so just to to wrap it up when we talked about apocalypse it does not mean the end of our planet as we interpret or even a material destruction of ourselves but it just means this new Step this new if you can call it regeneration Rebirth of who we are in a more mature State and that happens when we are are psychologically mature and we love

n of ourselves but it just means this new Step this new if you can call it regeneration Rebirth of who we are in a more mature State and that happens when we are are psychologically mature and we love ourselves and we accept ourselves so that we can be in that path toward individuation so I love that uh Jada final words to the audience here wow let's go for the good fight the one with ourselves uh that has not to be you know difficult or bad let's just uh uh love our elves and understand that we have limitations we all do but uh the more we understand about our limitations and as the image see H uh the image talked to us you know um uh let me conf confront myself and let me be courageous enough to ask for help and to show others that uh that that I have my weaknesses and if we all come together we can uh help each other to overcome everything that we have and we finally go through a different stage a different level uh one that we will no longer hide ourselves or destroy the world yes yes with that everyone I want to invite you to come back next week when we explore a different dimension of the topics of spiritism spirituality psychology psychological uh maturity so on and so forth thank you friends thank you an thank you J thank you for being here with us and so long bye bye