Ep 122 - The Great Existential Crisis

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality bridge to a better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we come together to explore the intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result we capture timeless wisdom containing both fields. I want to say that I am super excited to be here with you and Dr. Ana to dive into a topic that touches all of us. Um it's the idea of the postmodernity which is often seen together with the ideas that uh are contained with the collapse of traditional religious framework and also combined with the rise of the scientific um may I call it absolute thought and predominance in and maybe even coupled with the idea of all the materialistic values all packaged together. And when we put it all together, we're left with um with the state of quite uh discomfort and we in turn are seeking for something. I would say we're seeking meaning in a world that is increasingly more complex each day. And we can talk about right naive from the dark alleys of medieval faith right that sense of religiosity that is no longer perhaps appropriate to today. But that goes all the way to the sterile corridors of what I could call modern nihilism. So we are here all of us questioning what does it mean to truly be alive to believe to become whole. Wow. Well back to you and how you doing? Hello. Hello Marca. Hello everyone. So good to be here again with you guys. Wow, that's a a heavy question. Uh but I I think it's so so important because we are in our days postmodernity we could say and especially the days that we are living post pandemic that it's a a big collective trauma that we all have experienced a couple of years ago some years ago uh but that I think Martha and everyone that we have not yet integrated ated the experience. we are kind of um caught you know that post-traumatic syndrome that we say has some symptoms and um that one of them for instance you you you keep leaving inside yourself uh the emotions and the traumas the memories of the trauma and

that post-traumatic syndrome that we say has some symptoms and um that one of them for instance you you you keep leaving inside yourself uh the emotions and the traumas the memories of the trauma and the ego kind of protects itself has a mechanisms of defense and protects itself. So what we are observing in the collective unconscious right it's kind of um a lot of uh issues that are not integrated yet. Uh we have uh lived together the fear of death for instance very intense fear of death grieving for the ones that we love that have um you know died during the pandemic. um the sense of loneliness going in staying at home without um you know only connecting uh through uh virtually let's say through the internet and social medias. So we kind of a lot of children are uh we are seeing that were um small in the pandemic. Um my daughter is a pediatrician and she's also a professor at university one medical um university and she says that um in her practice also she can see that children are very anxious very very anxious nowadays very early right suffer what I call is the true epidemic of today's society is this this loss of certainty, right? This loss of being centered, a fear has become anxiety, but it's beyond anxiety. This pathological anxiety at the earlier and earlier age, isn't it? Yes, exactly. And you see the small children, they count a lot in the stability of their parents. Yeah. Emotional stability and the stability of the environment. So if you create an environment and if you are part of an environment that is totally unstable and the parents are with a lot of fear going outside the house of getting you know uh in the pandemic we live that or getting the virus and do well all this even if the parents haven't said anything the the child is like an antenna you know it's very unconscious because the ego is uh just maturing little by little and doesn't have defenses cannot um reason about what it's going on. So what happens is that the child will leave uh leaves uh

t's very unconscious because the ego is uh just maturing little by little and doesn't have defenses cannot um reason about what it's going on. So what happens is that the child will leave uh leaves uh the this environment of fear of in instability and things like that of the parents being emotionally unstable and of course they would be all of us were in a sense more or less um because we we make a collective right and we share the collective unconscious. So and our shadows also connect with uh our personal shadows connect with the collective shadow. So of course we all lived together. This you you talk about you talked about the dark ages. It was like a a small dark age that we lived together. We could think symbolically about that. And um just just I hate I hate to to just to to stop you there, but um because you mentioned shadow and we talked about shadow together previously, but just uh before for everybody who's here today, can you maybe explain the concept and what does it mean for example psychological but also spiritually shadow? Okay. So psychologically we say depth psychology in yung it's um the shadow it's like the part in the personal unconscious okay that um the ego rejects let's say that it goes against our persona our social mask they are kind of complexes in a sense personalities Jung says our complexes small parts not not so small, very big actually. Parts of our psych complexes. Uh he said emotionally tuned uh complexes, right? That have memory. They have memories. They have aspects that are manifest emotions connect to them and the shadow and the persona. He uses the mask uh Greek mask of the ancient theater. The persona is called the mask. uh he he uses to call this complex our um our uh social mask let's say and so the persona is related it's kind of conscious and is related to the ego okay basically conscious with everything that the ego thinks it's cool okay this makes me better people will give me likes in in the social media and do do you

d of conscious and is related to the ego okay basically conscious with everything that the ego thinks it's cool okay this makes me better people will give me likes in in the social media and do do you remember when we when we say that the duck face where women would just got this the little couty head and it's like what in the world is this? That's a mask. You you put a you put a device in front of you and there is auto automatically the pout in a lot of young ch young women especially but that was cool right that's cool and I just it just remind me that uh I saw one um I something somebody related to me that was a beautiful child and has turned has just turned 18. Okay. And in her um her picture that it's in some medias um of course she's 18 then she is all in black kind of very sexy and um holding of course a a drink of course probably an alcohol red or whatever. Yeah. So that's supposed to be cool. That's supposed to be and we are talking about external things that you asked me about. So uh it's very important that we understand which kind of values uh we are sharing as a collective that teenagers think it's cool and think it's going to make me um look uh more like a sexy woman or whatever if I dress yeah in this way and I especially if I have an alcohol if I have a drink of alcohol in my hand. So, but of course if she put that and I'm not in social media, but people that are and that I have around this age, uh, of course they if she has put that, it's because she thinks it's cool and that her friends are think it's going to be cool. So that's her persona. Okay. And it's just an example. uh so everything for instance that it's opposite to that and I know some of the stuff about this per this person that I'm talking to about it's just an example because I I hear many many stories like that for instance would be her spirituality because I know this person when she was a child she was very spiritual you can see the self the higher self there very spiritual person, but then she was a

that for instance would be her spirituality because I know this person when she was a child she was very spiritual you can see the self the higher self there very spiritual person, but then she was a teenager in the pandemic and that I think it's I'm just giving example of somebody that I love that I have seen grow and that I've seen you know what happens and I've seen that um in another country this happened in another country where they had to stay a lot at home because of the lockdowns very strict lockdowns and you know and so then you have a big medias and this and that talking about conflict and death all the time. Yeah, I had I I had seen as a psychiatrist at that point very few Marsha and everyone very few uh um let's say news or reflections about what was healthy. Yeah. Emotionally healthy and even physical and all this. It's almost like a a new landscape. a new vocabulary. What What is it? Right. Yes. Yes. It totally So all my fears, all my uh even for some people the their spirituality, if I'm totally caught in this uh materialistic world and Jonah talks a lot about that. If I think I'm going to die and there's nothing else after that. Uh so can you imagine the despair if death is outside my door is death is if I hurt someone that I love. So people uh getting apart from each other, teenagers and and children uh not learning how to read not the verbal communication but you know the what we in our faces the nonverbal communication what we the emotions that we send. We we are saying that this generation of children and teenagers in the pandemic they kind of are uh lost much of the ability to the the empathy you know to understand and to learn people's face to understand what the emotions they are showing. Yeah. There is um I don't know if you had a chance to to see it. I I hesitated, but several people uh kept referring it to me. But there is a um a series um being streamed currently um British psych psychological we could say crime drama called adolescence that I don't know if you've

several people uh kept referring it to me. But there is a um a series um being streamed currently um British psych psychological we could say crime drama called adolescence that I don't know if you've seen it but it really gets into the complexities just like what you're saying of that uh that uh group of people that you know youth uh and and their sense or lack of uh identity, their pressures that they're suffering. And it's really the plot uh just turn off your phones if you have not seen it and you you don't want the the the spoiler here, but uh there's just this 13-year-old uh boy and he's arrested. He's arrested for the murder of a schoolmate, right? And it's really, it's just a four episode, but it is gripping because it it really highlights, and I how vulnerable this age group is. And they're even more vulnerable because we, and I'm putting collectively, we as as teenagers, as adolescents are drawn into even um uh this world of online uh we could call it subculture, right? A subgroup. and uh and those groups of discussions because of algorithms um to to to support and to emphasize and to grow for financial reasons. All right, there's always a a reason to promote and to make more money out of it. But regardless, um those subgroups promote really potentially uh difficult, complex and potentially wrong ideologies, but they also influence they shape um behaviors, perceptions and in the end can lead to very very harmful actions. in this case was very specifically right and and I think the impact of peer pressure of media is some of the things where when you talk about the mask the persona really comes to play in a heightened state where uh with the you know with the feelings or the the the PTSD right the post-traumatic um disorder not completely completely assimilated post pandemic and we're talking about COVID 19. It's really heightened the fear of isolation, the fear of uh noneacceptance of inadequacy and we keep shaping who we are so that we are based on that online persona, right? we we

lking about COVID 19. It's really heightened the fear of isolation, the fear of uh noneacceptance of inadequacy and we keep shaping who we are so that we are based on that online persona, right? we we distort we are to be able to to to be liked and and and that's one pivotal moment in that series and I if if you see it uh let me know your thoughts when he he loses everything his composure because he he he wants the psychologist to just say that she likes him that's all you like me and he just loses and it's like how could you do this and how did you get here etc etc but o overall it's very much in line with what you're saying today and it's in line with our post-pandemic world but it's also in line with this postmodern world that we live today right yes exactly I think it's a a very nice example and um if the adults Mara um have an integrated yet experience. And integrate integration means to accept the different forces and the paradoxes right that happen to all of us and also finding meaning in the suffering spiritually and psychologically speaking. So uh the concept of the shadow is that everything that the ego think it's threatening to this social mask right uh it rejects it's it denies and it is to the personal unconscious uh like you know and for then it uh creates the complex of the shadow that of course since we uh in the transpersonal dimension of the psych that we call the collective unconscious in Yungan terms. We are all connected and we share all the experiences in this depths of our psych. So of course our personal shadow connects to the collective shadow. So what happens is that we are seeing all this drama actually going on because as you said we have a pandemic in a sense of depression, anxiety, uh addiction to internet to the social medias and all of that. We have um as we have said uh some some other episodes here that this generation uh is um we have always have had a growth of intelligence um in next always the next generation is more intelligent than the previous one and

said uh some some other episodes here that this generation uh is um we have always have had a growth of intelligence um in next always the next generation is more intelligent than the previous one and for the first time in humanity uh we the intelligence of the next generations is going down. So, and um everybody, you know, teenagers and and children mostly are losing the ability to write, the ability to read. Now, we have artificial intelligence that can, you know, they have they can ask uh artificial intelligence to make texts and this and that. So, of course, we have to use I'm not saying I'm not against technology. I think it's nice for us to use as ways of growing and not of delivering to technology the power uh to ma to do a job let's say that we are supposed to do as humanity. So that's evolve in consciousness. So one of the things can can I can I just give you Yeah, I'm I'm chuckling here because I this is several years ago. So very beginning of uh uh what is now here in my in my professional world and I AI is becoming now just as omniresent as what today work is related to the utilization of internet or computer versus oh what is it 30 years ago only 30 30 years ago where only very few people had a desktop to work and if you had one what would you do with it right and and today our lives are completely dependent on those devices and uh but anyways uh the the thought process regarding AI because you brought it up was that somebody was explaining how it was a young woman how she was using AI and she was actually because we're talking here about emotion Right. Basically, we're talking about uh what does this all mean to to me and you emotionally? But she was just feeling things and she would go to whatever AI uh that she was using and she was said, "Is this normal?" Yes. And she seriously she relied on the answer to it's okay. It's normal. And and we know right even the question itself begs to a different discussion in terms of what is normal, what is not normal. Uh

. And she seriously she relied on the answer to it's okay. It's normal. And and we know right even the question itself begs to a different discussion in terms of what is normal, what is not normal. Uh and and how come can a machine devoid of emotion um absolve you or or provide you a sense of license to feel this way or that way. But uh it all keeps adding up to to this moment in time that we're talking today, right? This this great existential crisis that we all falling and feeling and uh and having issues uh absorbing it. I I would say to you what do you recommend? uh I think uh if I put my head as I am a naive answering Mercy's question I would say we all need time to comprehend to process right it's been too soon things such as the pandemic for instance it's too soon uh we have we will need maybe 10 to 15 years to start processing the the impact of that of the latest of external threats to our existence. Right. Yes. Exactly. Um Marsha, I think it's so important because I will answer um uh with of course because we are talking about Joanna's teachings. Okay. Yes, with Joanna teach teachings I think she uh beautifully she lead us to um deepen our reflections about all of this existential crisis that we are going through because we know through spiritist uh knowledge that we are evolving in consciousness right and she says that it's uh everything that we have that has happened to us including the light has come has appeared when I'm talking about Joanna. See that synchronicity I love it. I love it. I love it. Yes. Yeah. But it's a wonderful synchronicity because it's getting dark then just the lights came on. Um so I think this is very important because she she tells us she asked us to reflect upon that. Yeah. uh we evolve when we integrate our experiences. Actually the process of reincarnation is all about evolving learning and she says that living or she talks exactly she says a slow liberation from primitivism. Yeah. And uh through the aspiration that we have, it's an inner aspiration

ion is all about evolving learning and she says that living or she talks exactly she says a slow liberation from primitivism. Yeah. And uh through the aspiration that we have, it's an inner aspiration uh of that we have for the beautiful and the noble, right? And she also when she talks about that she uh she talks about a word a word that for someone some people it could be difficult because they maybe they never heard about. But she talks about geotropism. that is the movement towards God deals like in Latin. So that it's God the the source of creation right God however people conceive conceive God. So she says that cons consciousness um can um little by little in this ev evolution this process of evolution and especially in our days are learning how to control aggressive impulses for instance. Yes, the this primitivism that we still have from our evolution, from you know very irrational beings that we have been in the past. uh and rationalities as she says that little by little establish itself in the psych uh helping us uh to think uh in a more profound way to reflect to be rational beings and to be and to have this capacity to selfanalysis. Yes. To ask existential questions who am I from where I came where I'm am I going to. So uh she says that this uh is a a a real power within ourselves, a very strong force that um a movement psychic and spiritual movement that actually lead us uh to this search for God for this source. Yeah. And and the the the paradox if I may here uh because we we came from we we discussed postmodernity and the apparent collapse of meaning right and and uh it's maybe important for all of us to think that uh it's it's not one two or three years but for centuries we we had a sense of our moral compass Our morality dictated externally, right? And in that case, it was religion. Religion forged what was right, what was wrong. It also forged our identities. It offered this map for navigating what we were feeling and including suffering. And and then right now

it was religion. Religion forged what was right, what was wrong. It also forged our identities. It offered this map for navigating what we were feeling and including suffering. And and then right now I I just keep thinking what happens when those maps are no longer accurate. They no longer tell us where to go. What happens when the voices uh from the past? What all the historical reference that we had before are gone or uh are erased. Right? And on top of it, all we have is this noisy, polluted um guidance toward consumption, toward uh conflict, toward egoic um choices. And and I think this is really important for us to to to maybe also consider that in this discussion because is it really the collapse of meaning or is it not? It is now the new and urgent time to find meaning in this postmodern society. Wow, that's beautiful. I remember that we have been talking previous episode about uh the archetype of the apocalypse. Yeah. Yeah, that it's very active in our days because it's um it talks about death of things that have to die like uh you know old values like you said when we were control religion was used unfortunately um uh in many cultures to control people um like a a means to power and Actually um Jonah says that we have to bring back the the real meaning of uh religion that is to reconnect to the source and this reconnection is through actually our uh inner self. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yes. Yeah. It's inside and not outside. So this is very important because some things have to die in a sense of transformation. It's symbolic because we know that from in spirit uh spiritism knowledge we know that we never die because we are spirits evolving constantly. So the body dies, the ego is transformed. when we go back to spiritual realms. Yeah. Uh and and and it's integrated in the experiences of the self, capital S, our higher self, our spirit according to Joanna. And then we go back to another experience of growth, of evolution. And this goes and someday maybe we are

ed in the experiences of the self, capital S, our higher self, our spirit according to Joanna. And then we go back to another experience of growth, of evolution. And this goes and someday maybe we are going to be all archangels. And I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there. Right. We find each other. Well, actually at that at that point in high spiritual um dimensions, we are all together because of course we we keep some individuality. But then we are in a nondual dimension. Then we are don't see each other as separate beings. As the other, right? As the other. Yeah. As the other. So like like Jesus uh of course um brought us this vision that he knew you would we would only be able to start understanding kind of now when we uh evolve more in you know in a rational rationality and in knowledge and in experience. But I think something very important that you said Marca and and this archetype is so active because we we are talking about existential crisis and the way that we conquer something that it's meaningful not for our egos because this experience the only thing that is certainly everybody always talks about is that we're going to die someday and leave the material part of our experience even our body behind. But we will never leave everything that we have learned, felt, experienced. This is all integrated in our spirit in our uh wisdom as spirits um evolving let's say. So um that's very important that we understand that we don't get caught. We were talking about the shadow in this uh of course that we understand the shadow within ourselves and then we work with the shadow we try to integrate oh okay um I felt fear I I doubt I'm you know my faith was some kind was kind of challenged uh I my faith in God in the creation and but why was that which complex was active in in myself which shadow aspect emerged uh in that the crisis that one that we felt we were talking collective but in my day by day because we we have a lot of crisis small one big ones in different

in in myself which shadow aspect emerged uh in that the crisis that one that we felt we were talking collective but in my day by day because we we have a lot of crisis small one big ones in different countries as humanity. Yeah. So thing is to be uh brave let's say brave from our hearts have faith in ourselves because we are all sparkles of this beautiful source that we call God this the creation the creator and understand that all and try to listen to this sparkle that it's inside of us the the higher self the spirit that is always trying to communicate with the our egos, the the small consciousness that is doing a lot of work here but has to pay attention especially when we are mature enough to the inner voice and to the messages uh dreams uh in different kind of insights for instance in meditation during prayers uh and also um intuition synchronicities uh Because Marca um you talked about uh myth and Jonah talks also about myth of meaning. Yeah. and also talked about myth of meaning and anala yaf that was one of his very close collaborators es especially she was also a young analyst and in the last 10 more or less years of Jung's life she worked also as his secretary and she edited um his autobiography memory dreams reflections uh and and Then she uh has a beautiful um book that is um the meaning of myth in CG work works and um she says that uh for Yung and I think of course I can read that in Joanna also uh the myth of his life was uh studying consciousness beautiful actually u manifest fasting uh and expanding consciousness because the red book the the black books are are all about his experimentations. They were not diaries. There are experimentations and uh actually notes about his um what he called um his experimentations with his psych with his the images that arised from the depths of his psych and active imagination. He called this technique and from there he simply created uh um deaf psychology what we call analytical psychology after he had a big crisis

arised from the depths of his psych and active imagination. He called this technique and from there he simply created uh um deaf psychology what we call analytical psychology after he had a big crisis um uh when he split from Freud uh and it was also more or less around the first world war. So imagine all the sh the collective shadow that was manifest the first world war one of the big uh the biggest sufferings of humanity. Yeah. Right. inn times and look what he says um so first the uh Jung's interest in life's meaning says was due to his experience as a a practicing psychiatrist because uh he saw the dangers of a meaningless life so people that are listening to us can connect with the dangers of being caught in this outside world. It's not that we don't have to live of course and relate with the outside world outside of ourselves I'm talking about but is that disconnect from our inner world that's the danger you know and I understand that Jung u wrote right Christ is the inner man reached by in is the inner man reached by the path of self-nowledge right so I think it's very interesting because just like uh what you refer earlier today with spiritism and also with Joanna D'Angelus um like the work of Jung they offer this uh I could call a bridge right to unite science scientific experimentations but uh with the soul right so it's this new dichotomy between logic and transcendence, right? It's about reincarnation and meaning in this material life. So, it's really cool now. Cool. Everybody, the real cool to to be able to confront um the shadow and not to be able to suppress it, right? to understand all the nuances that we live each in one each and every one of us that live through to understand it to to heal it and I would say let the light right as your light bulb turned on today let the light shine through uh because now you you are integrated. Yes. And you talk about uh the Christ inside of us. He uses also as a metaphor of uh the self capital S of our higher self because of of course the Christ and

gh uh because now you you are integrated. Yes. And you talk about uh the Christ inside of us. He uses also as a metaphor of uh the self capital S of our higher self because of of course the Christ and Jonah says also beautifully uh is the integral uh human being is the example of the balance and the evolution of consciousness that we can achieve if we pay attention to our inner world. If we work with what uh is still shadow and complex difficult complex within ourselves and we can integrate that all this experience it it makes us it's the opposite of what people think Marca they think oh I don't want to pay attention to that leave it there in the unconscious because this hurts too much because I I feel a lot of ambivalence I hate and I love and this is very difficult I feel guilty did this and that but it's the opposite. If I can have compassion towards this difficult aspects within myself, I get stronger because if they can exist and I can deal with them, then of course I overcome them, right? Because then I can I can tell myself, well, I don't have to be perfect. Yeah. I can work with everything the shadow that I have and I can put some light in this shadow. So then my my psych really can overcome this shadow aspect. But I just want to tell you and everybody Yeah. that uh about a meaningless life if we are caught if we are so afraid of what's going to happen to us uh and our countries and wars and uh and you know diseases and things like that and all this fight in politics and all this stuff. uh if I get really caught it's not that I don't have to pay attention and make my own decisions and of course we all have to it's the experience of the ego here but to make some difference to the collective I have to first integrate and pay attention to my inner self and then I can make a difference later on that it's going to bring some health and some spirituality to the collective and yung says to the small sentence says that I think it's beautiful. He says a psychonurosis

an make a difference later on that it's going to bring some health and some spirituality to the collective and yung says to the small sentence says that I think it's beautiful. He says a psychonurosis must be understood. This is Jung talking ultimately as the suffering of a soul which has not discovered its meaning. And then he goes on saying about a third of my cases are not suffering from any clinically uh definable neurosis but from the senselessness and aimlessness of their lives. Yeah. So, and I think and Joanna also brings this. Let's pay attention because Christ consciousness is being reborn uh within ourselves each time that we just uh like lose fear and really integrate shadow aspects. really transform the death in a sense symbolically transforming all that shadow in light within ourselves then we get to another step of evolution and to closer to Christ consciousness. Absolutely. I love it. Um we talked a lot today uh an uh I just keep thinking that uh for all of us let's let's walk out of here with the knowledge that the so-called existential crisis that uh we're all going through is not the end. It's just that u uh what can we say? Joanna uses that word, the term the the birth thing, right? The the labor pains for for bringing something new. And and I think that's what it is. It it it includes a lot of suffering um in especially when as you mentioned uh when we see oursel we catch ourselves living in what it could be construed as a senseless or aimless life, right? But let's stop that and just pay attention because every moment of our lives, all the experience or the emotions that we have felt are now part of who we are. Right? So from the ruins of all that chaos that we live through, we we I believe that we are being called uh back by our creator, right? and all the the forces to this new awareness this knowledge that love compassion and meaning indeed are not a I don't know manufactured religious belief but a human a true human need right so I think at this point um and I I think um this

reness this knowledge that love compassion and meaning indeed are not a I don't know manufactured religious belief but a human a true human need right so I think at this point um and I I think um this perhaps could be an invitation for all of us to to look deeply within and create space. Invest in uh the knowledge that uh uh to to be aware of our spiritual nature does not mean that we have to to not live a material life, right? It doesn't mean that we have to escape the world we live in but be transformative agents and that transformation as you mentioned so beautifully begins with us. This is not about trying to to grasp to nostalgic past, but it's really to like the apocalypse archetype to be awakened to a future where the divine is not feared or attempted to be masked as lived, but truly lived, truly absorbed, where we are here to transcend all of that and I it is time to say goodbye. Do you have any final words? We can talk forever, right? Yeah, we could. We could. Well, just um I'll leave everyone with this sentence that it's a synchronicity because um I knew we would be talking together actually. I was missing you guys. We are doing so many things, right? Uh but it's great always to be here with you. Uh but it's a sentence that I've heard that I think it uh closes very beautifully. Um if we could just think let the divine consciousness be the guiding power of your life. That's the dealropism that Jean is talking about. Let's have faith in this guiding power that is within us and that connects all of us with the divine consciousness. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for that for all of you and including myself. I hope this conversation really inspired you to to take the time to reflect on all of our individual journeys. And I'm going to say until next time, just stay curious, stay compassionate, stay courageous enough to to dig deep within the truth inside of you. For those that uh this is your first time listening to our program, please note that the psychology and spirituality

ompassionate, stay courageous enough to to dig deep within the truth inside of you. For those that uh this is your first time listening to our program, please note that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus. And uh we hope that you're able to to u absorb some concepts that both spiritual nature psychological nature and juxtapose them in a meaningful way. I want to thank you an so much for being here. I also want to thank our sponsors, Mansu Commino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council and AmI Brazil, the Spiritist Arm for the Medical Spiritist Association. We'll be back next week and until then, so long everyone. Bye-bye everyone.