Ep 31 - How To Go from Fear to Building Your Own Pietà

foreign welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Marcia georgiano and with me is his journey planner hi hijani I'd like to introduce you hi I'd like to introduce his journey to those who do not know her she has an incredible incredible uh resume and I just wanted to highlight a few things that make her so special to be here with me today um is professionally speaking she has an electrical and nuclear engineering background right and a masters in nuclear engineer from military engineering Institute from Rio De Janeiro Brazil she moved to Austria in 1989 and there she worked for the international atomic energy agency mouthful for 27 years and there she worked in many different uh positions in nuclear energy nuclear Safety and Security she's also a long-term member of the iaea Publications committee and has coordinated dozens of Publications and published as well several technical Journey okay back now to the other side of his journey is a writer but she's also a poet and she contributed to so many different articles to different Brazilian spiritual magazines so some of them are in Portuguese presents a spirit which is published by Manson the other journals are he Vista internationalism all of those published by the spirits Federation of Brazil and Trevis spirit I guess this is in French published by the international the spiritist council oh my it doesn't stop there everyone his journey is has collaborated with two books related to spirituality or spiritism the um they're called an examination of religiosity influences perspectives and health implications with the old new view of Consciousness a reveal of philosophical and scientific approach to business and which translates to yours mine or gods his journey is a confounder and vice chair of the association for spiritist studies Alan cardiac it's in German I'm so sorry I cannot speak German where she collaborated for 27 years as well she's a member of the Society of

nder and vice chair of the association for spiritist studies Alan cardiac it's in German I'm so sorry I cannot speak German where she collaborated for 27 years as well she's a member of the Society of scientific exploration and the women in nuclear thank you thank you thank you hijani for all that you do but before we start our conversation if this is the first time you are watching this podcast like program please note their program psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the books by Joanna DeAngelis and as such it is a space to confront to compare to correlate to expand concepts of spirituality from a psychological lens and because of that they bring insights uh for us to have a better life today's episode is brought to you by those organizations that has a member and to know more about kejani please visit her site www.hejodyplane.org overall our psychology and spirituality program is a sponsored by Ami Brazil the TV manzondo Camino the international spiritist Council in the United States spiritus Federation make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already done so and uh if you want to know more about what we do check us out at spiritus.us finally you have questions feedback comments please do write them down and we'll address them at a later episode we're here today to talk about death which by the way not easy right can you can you maybe tell us why is it so hard why to even fear death it's interesting because if we are born once we will die that is the only certainty in our life and still we fear there are several reasons for fearing that some are Inna come from ourselves from using others are exogenous that means comes from where we live I think if you can make a parallel we just came out from a pandemic uh two three years pandemic and what we did during this time we closed ourselves we leave the in within our house without going out fearing that fearing the unknown what is outside and this fear of the unknown is much deep in the human being

id during this time we closed ourselves we leave the in within our house without going out fearing that fearing the unknown what is outside and this fear of the unknown is much deep in the human being this is the the fear of what we don't know what we can expect those who have done some wrongs in this life or maybe another life is in the subconscious it's also kept as a memory they also have fear of what is coming maybe it's coming this um I always say the end of the world the the final Justice that means they feel also God they fear the Judgment of God because they don't understand what God is they don't understand what is the meaning of life they don't understand what life is and most of us don't understand what life is uh I can I think what we could say that this fear of of that is really a fundamental fear it's not a fundament a basic fear no it's the fear of the unknown the uncertain of what exists after life and we can analyze a little bit more of of this fear if you wish um looking at what are the the the how these what are the causes of Fiona why we fear and why we come to this fear of death can I say something else before because I'd love for you to to go deeper into the notion of fear you know before we talk about death let's talk about fear but I wanted to perhaps uh um bring another notion that we can talk about it later actually but uh if you think about so we we live and we die and we're afraid not of this event death like you said but what comes after right what is this thing called afterlife is there is an afterlife afterlife and uh if I don't know I I really I'm afraid of even look into it but uh there's also a different concept maybe we have time to talk about it today in our just time together hey Johnny but it is also the fear sorry I said here I don't know if you can see this but this is the afterlife but before life right which is what we don't know about ourselves this infinite microcosmos of ourselves and if if that is so difficult for us to access it we also uh

ee this but this is the afterlife but before life right which is what we don't know about ourselves this infinite microcosmos of ourselves and if if that is so difficult for us to access it we also uh are so afraid of what is inside this this microcosmos our our self right our unconscious we then got are living in a in that cross between what was before and what is after which both deal with fears what are your thoughts yeah let's let's let's go to some um paths that that's to understand a little bit more pedagogical to understand first what that is sure what we are because to understand what we are we need to look at the past the present the future will be what we are today that means we look at the past and what is today but that uh that is a almost a meat yes for 150 years doctors didn't the medicine didn't know exactly when did that when the individual was that or not I mean today we know that there are two types of that the clinical that and the biological that the clinical debt is that occurs when the the heart stops yes the respiration no function and the the heart function stops and indeed during this kind of that the the clinical that it took we we uh or an individual can have the near-death experience for instance this out of board experience and those uh reports that we read a lot in the in the spiritualistic and in the many also scientific journals and the biological or the brain that that means the paralysis of the brain function this is really that after that the body starts then deteriorating all the cells will die and uh did that process properly speaking you know is is occurs and it continues till the did that of all the all cells then this is that what happens after that is also interesting yes because in the when an individual is you terminal you for instance it its body is slowly getting weak it means that it's losing itself already from Life although sometimes people try to to hold life as much as one can but usually the older people or The Terminal ill people they they know what

ing weak it means that it's losing itself already from Life although sometimes people try to to hold life as much as one can but usually the older people or The Terminal ill people they they know what is going to happen although sometimes they don't want to understand to to see to um to accomplish to yeah so let me see if I can explain what you're saying just for my sake uh so what we're talking about we this is uh clinical death biological death biological death occurs with the brain function C's and at that point we start this uh degradation of the molecular and molecular level of your body your physical body right so that's death and then um we're we're talking about the the fact that we all fear death but during um the experience of having a terminal illness there is a Vitality that is start to diminish right and in our organs and our cellular activities I'm not sure right I start to diminish and we start to get closer and closer to that clinical or biological death but we emotionally may or may not be ready for that is that a correct statement is that what I was going to say yeah okay we may or not no may not be prepared for that depend on how we prepared depends or is it depends also how we are going to do this process with more attachment to life that means attachment to the material life to all the aspects of our physical life our house our car our savings in the in the bank our loved ones yes friend husband friend companionship children yeah all that what we we have attachment to to people and to things and if we cannot detach from those things of course we will experience that um with more suffering this is what what I said then understanding what that is also helps why why I say that because when you look from the spiritual point of view we know that we are so an immortal being can you define that to the audience right please yeah yeah okay then if you know that we know that we will leave after this uh this vestment this clothes that we are wearing now our body will die

eing can you define that to the audience right please yeah yeah okay then if you know that we know that we will leave after this uh this vestment this clothes that we are wearing now our body will die and there is a process for diesel what we call in spirit is the very spirits that means the Astro uh austral body or the whatever spiritual body let's say in this way there are so many names for the very Spirit correct the founder of spiritism named it very Spirit others name it like Paulo the Apostle name it spirito body Astro body and whatever but this body will need to be released from the body and we know from the spiritus from the communication with from the spirits that this spiritual body this Spirit speed is attached to our physical bodies tell by ourselves it's a we say a body but it's an energy field yes composed of many different frequencies depends on of our emotions and of course this needs those to to set free to liberate and this is a process if we are attached of course this opening the door it will be more difficult and I will not talk about biological that I think that's no meaning everyone can can look at that but understanding how the body dies every day how ourselves renew themselves through this program cell uh that this I think it's called about apoptosis is the name the technical name also help us to understand that one day our body will die and we'll have to face this process of freeing our spiritual body our spirit our very spirit and like the Butterfly fly to the spirit award uh that mean dismissifying that is also important that we get free of the fear yes can we talk more about it right we we started with what is death and why is it so difficult for us to talk about uh hey Johnny but maybe we can zoom in into the notion of fearing fearing death but also fearing the unknown after death right after the process of dying if maybe we can talk about the fear itself what do you think yeah let's let's talk about the fear of that and that this is

ath but also fearing the unknown after death right after the process of dying if maybe we can talk about the fear itself what do you think yeah let's let's talk about the fear of that and that this is the like they say it's a is the cause of the fear of that is almost ancestral we can say because it it has been uh with this with the the mankind since it recognized itself as a human being why is instinctive yeah is our survival Instinct that means we also fear that because we want to live and in the past uh in the uh beginning of the civilization with the Primitive women's beings what they didn't understand the nature they didn't understand uh the storms the the rain they didn't understand why so many uh seismic seismic phenomena or how many different uh how different natural behavior and all these the those events they fear because they could die from a floating they could die from a storm they could die from so many things that means fear is very much within our unconscious mind ours to be conscious mindful so it's almost like an inheritance of our our you know all of our ancestrality right all the the things that we bring as as a as a race in addition to our own fears that we bring perhaps as uh as a Immortal Souls that have multiple existence can you can maybe we talk about it the the fact that it is this uh Collective unconscious that uh that fear right it's it's there all of us uh uh have that carry that even without knowing that means you mean uh let's see so I understand you mean that um because so many people fear we have this Collective fear that also uh has influence in ourselves this is what they are saying yeah that's what I'm thinking yeah that could be of course because we live this may sound a bit orientalist but it's not uh we are one with the word we are all interconnected yes now we are here talking we are making a connection yes and probably everyone who is listening to us is also connected to this same energy field that we are in at the moment

are all interconnected yes now we are here talking we are making a connection yes and probably everyone who is listening to us is also connected to this same energy field that we are in at the moment um the fear of that can race and can multiply Itself by so many people feeling I think that makes a lot of sense and um of course that is not good and we could see during the pandemic the pandemic time with the kovid 19 and we can see also when there is a terrorism attack for instance well if you remember September 11 yeah many many years ago the world stopped all that has also influenced in in everyone else the individual needs to confront the this exogenous fear with its own fear that innovate in this a difficult word for me inherited yeah from its past from its previous life because we have a lot of some precautions here that we don't even realize that make us insecure that make us jealous that sometimes made us um act a little bit more aggressive we are we don't like what people say because it's it it touch Us in some issues that we didn't deal with we didn't do yet and also when those catastrophic events happen like also the two Tsunami Tsunami in I think 2008 2007 yeah in in Asia the whole world was has had fear what is coming now now here in Europe for instance We Fear the the war that is 800 kilometers far from us here yeah I mean the all the this multiplies itself and and of course uh people that are more fragile they have more fear they have more distress they multiply this fear and sometimes also transform it also in panic then there are there is a lot of causal factors of fear no go ahead yeah go ahead yeah the main one we would say that it is the inheritance of guilty in the subconscious in the unconscious mind that is marked by all those factors that I said jealousy Envy rated despite all of this is a psychological immaturity these are all emotional insecurity that can trigger fear and panic or other uh depressive disorders of any time and coming back to fear of that

rated despite all of this is a psychological immaturity these are all emotional insecurity that can trigger fear and panic or other uh depressive disorders of any time and coming back to fear of that we need to learn we need to understand what that is to learn when I say learn is not just read is really deep understand what that brings to us if I don't say okay that is coming and we I feel myself as an immortal and we feel that when we are 20 we think that we have the whole life that's right foreign that is a good perspective very optimistic but uh when we are in the third age like we say no no we our we have to confront and we need to confront this fear with reason and logic because if not it turns to be pathological and the pathological fear of course like uh dispiritomento Joanna geologists I I think you're the people who are listening to us probably already know that Jonah Johnson is a spiritual guide from The Medium famous medium of Brazil and the founder of monsondo Camino who is one of the sponsors of this series I mean she says that uh that pathological the person with pathological fear the person kills itself not to have to await that okay the the individual start there are different ways of suicide you don't you don't need to commit suicide you can commit suicide Slowly by eating Wrong by not taking the necessary Medicine by Care by hate yeah when you hate someone so much you are killing yourself with toxins with the neurotransmitters that will trigger other substances in your body and you get sick sooner or later I mean there is a lot of way to look at that and of fear but all of them needs to go through logic and reason if not we cannot overcome it's quite interesting uh hey Jenny when we bring to us this notion that the more we dive in into dissecting the concept of death perhaps we're less afraid right and I really find uh what you mentioned to us here today which is um the fear of death is leading to certain behaviors that will trigger or accelerate death itself which is a a

we're less afraid right and I really find uh what you mentioned to us here today which is um the fear of death is leading to certain behaviors that will trigger or accelerate death itself which is a a paradox of Concepts how do I kill myself because I'm afraid of dying right love it very very good be afraid of God is not understand God yes yes yes it's true because God if you understand God you don't put God as the same as we are this anthropology God that that does is this and this is what religion have brought to wrong religion has brought in our society is um a figure of God that is so similar to the women woman being that it becomes a woman being with all the emotions cannot be God if it's God is something and intelligence that is much above our intelligence much love much more compre compassionate I mean this is then God cannot be punitive yeah cannot uh bring any aggression uh and we have Heritage although all these conceptual wrong conception misconceptions of God yeah the god that uh I think Einstein said that and it's a famous phrase of uh Einstein and I always mentioned because everyone says he said that I don't believe uh in God I believe in the god of espinos or something like that but the God that he he he mentioned at that time it was not the the Eastern concept of God it was the true matter of God because he didn't believe in in the anthropomorphic God that was the common view in the Judaism and the Catholicism at that time yeah that means he believed in the intelligence there is a beautiful book from Einstein is the word as I see it it's beautiful and then you understand he's he's thinking and how he he really understood the word and God but now we went to another so let's let's go back let's go back to death and fear of dying what else can we talk about it to overcome fear and fear of that we need to face our reality we need to understand who you we are where are we going from where we came but mainly we need to understand who we are where are we going we know so we are

and fear of that we need to face our reality we need to understand who you we are where are we going from where we came but mainly we need to understand who we are where are we going we know so we are going to the spirit of world and there will face ourselves no one will judge us we will face ourselves yeah where we come from from many lives that we don't know go outside don't care I say in in German but it's uh it's um it's good for us that we don't know because if we have memories from all our past lives I would not like I would prefer not to know what I did 500 years ago and I think no one if you think about the level of society 500 years ago if I was a man I would be mistreating women yeah that animals I mean I don't want to face this reality of what I was I want to face the reality of today and then you need to go in this travel within the knowing the self to the these self-discovering to identify what what I what is the cause of my fear did I have for instance a mother who didn't want me to was not prepared to be a model maybe this is a cause of fear and insecurity in many people or some some uh experience a difficult board and then they also came out to the word uh feeling insecure with fear because inside the mom the mother they were protected and then they come to a ward that didn't protect them this becomes an ignorant Theos is a fear that isn't the subconscious it's from this life someone that was um had a very uh restrictive mother and a very not caring father or the country or the very caring mother and of uh and the father who didn't who was to Rude too aggressive all those are problems that we have to face yeah yeah and of course those that will be emotional uh issues that will be triggered for in different situations that can come depends on everyone what is our uh I would say our baggage from the last years will have to face time to time some situations that will try to teach us not to repeat themselves repeat them again with the same traits with same patterns but change our

r baggage from the last years will have to face time to time some situations that will try to teach us not to repeat themselves repeat them again with the same traits with same patterns but change our Behavior change our Behavior pattern that we learn these are also we fear that we try to hide ourselves one to wear a mask to hide ourselves to hide ourselves from the society you know and then this um if you there is a good book that we were talking before and uh I think I can mention here probably you are studying that it's called the cautious being from the Vodafone by the spirit of Jonah Jones and uh in this in this chapter when they she talks about um Shia and that she talks about five before five factors that are um ego mechanisms of Escape yeah and those are ways that the person hide its own issues its own problem either by compensation for instance um someone who has a weakness is very fragile physically fragile tries to be a very good athlete yeah jumping trima so on but also in emotional areas this can happen or by projecting uh itself in and not someone else or by what is the other rationalization is one Escape mechanism right yeah yeah displacement that this is a interesting one the displacement because it's the unconscious transfer of what I am to someone else or or an emotional that I have to someone else that is very interesting insecurity is one of the good examples or hostility uh I don't like someone and then I say that he doesn't like me yeah he's a transfer well projection is another one is the reflection of Personality uh conflicts that causes the ego to project them onto someone else yeah that is another very very interesting way but of course to talk one by one we would need quite a lot of time but all of them are doing what masking yes fear yes fear let me we are talking about fear and that but there are so many other fears that have root causes in our to be conscious that sometimes are from this life from our youth from our childhood sometimes our fun past

re talking about fear and that but there are so many other fears that have root causes in our to be conscious that sometimes are from this life from our youth from our childhood sometimes our fun past life so so it's very good right the the this this notion of fear and how the defense mechanism that we have which is just a a reaction right we're there to protect ourselves from ourselves from our fears from our emotional response and and hey Jenny real quick because I think it's uh it we may have uh uh a pause here to talk about those emotions and uh I often like to to bring them up because it helps us understand right we we have four basic emotions um and fear in addition to Joy anger and sadness are those four basic emotions that every person goes through as a reaction to an external impulse and fear as we're talking here fear this this basic emotion is there for a reason to be able to bring us to to action to protect ourselves from whatever but it's very interesting because when we talk about and you mentioned uh earlier fear of death is based on the Instinct of survival that uh that uh that uh automatic reaction to something so and it can be as simple as I don't know uh uh I think right I think I heard a noise and I think there is somebody that's gonna come with with uh uh I don't know uh an object to hurt me so my I'm afraid I have all those reaction adrenaline in my body I you know I have the the fight of flight uh reactions and and it's perfectly normal fear of death I contend that is a fear that is interesting because holistically we all are because of fear of death we all are protecting life so that we don't die but the fear of the fear itself right the fear of the concept death of death is actually preventing us to live especially as you mentioned before in a pathological manner yeah right yeah we could talk about you based on the the fight and flight no it's the basic is the Basic Instinct the animals it comes from our Instinct because it's present in the animal life

manner yeah right yeah we could talk about you based on the the fight and flight no it's the basic is the Basic Instinct the animals it comes from our Instinct because it's present in the animal life and when we understand these symptoms of anxiety is the same and fear they are the two connected the fear with the these fight and flight symptom or yes survival mechanism and if you I have in front of me but I I will not show I have in front of me here in the other monitor this um nice picture of the the distress yeah that uh foreign and then release so many neurotransmitters that will then go to the now um I have in German I think is the I don't know the the names I know only in the in German I'm sorry for that prolactin you know you understand the bladder yeah the thumb goes to the yeah to different uh positions in to different cells but the noradrenaline and the uh so marketing go directly in the blood in the blood in the B cells or in the antigen and they also have uh we'll need to explain about the cytosines and all that I don't think that is my it's not my area I know I know a little bit I I I I need to say it's not my area I'm a physician physicist and engineer but I like learning yeah I like reasoning and to understand the body reactions we need to understand the fighting the fighting flight because this brings a lot of stress and fear triggers the fight and fly the fight and fly and Trigger all the release all those uh hormones that we will not mention here but everyone can Google and find their thousands of pictures of that but it triggers those hormones that releases stress and one of them give us a push in the heart yeah and after this pushing heart that means that we fight that you we run after that the body gets other hormones that we relax but that is not good for our circulation system because it's stress that means our veins will will do that yeah and as much as we do that and as much as we force our heart we are damaging the whole body that means fear of that if it's constant

stem because it's stress that means our veins will will do that yeah and as much as we do that and as much as we force our heart we are damaging the whole body that means fear of that if it's constant it's also damaging our physical body absolutely at any other fear I think this is what we you you can say much better because probably you are from the biology no I love it and I'm not no I needed to uh to translate that to to English but yeah some words I know some I don't know but what I love what you're saying is uh uh the fear as an automatic mechanism yeah and all those automatic uh response mechanisms to the body will hurt us and one of the things that I want to say here and it's a maybe very naive for us to say but I'm going to say it anyways uh is the fact that we as we evolve in our society less and less we are exposed less and less to potential death right so if we go back to I don't know uh 10 000 years ago uh there were many many more threats even a hundred years ago even 10 years ago we are becoming a safer and safer society that death is not every five seconds yet we substituted the death of the body with the death of the ego right and those fears and emotional response that trigger uh those stressors are equal it doesn't change uh before it was the the Lioness in the Africa savannah chasing us today is uh the fear that I'm not going to be able to fulfill the expectations at my job or the expectation of my role as a mother or another type of fear that is really all egoic and we're our egos are so afraid to that they're going to be at uh scrutiny and they're going to be attacked and they're going to be killed that we have similar responses as if we were about to die physically speaking that that is true that is true we substitute the fear of that for so many other fears no we want to the best place in society and we are and the youngs are risking themselves in those um Sports the high I don't know how you call that High Sports that means jumping and so on but you know coming back to

e best place in society and we are and the youngs are risking themselves in those um Sports the high I don't know how you call that High Sports that means jumping and so on but you know coming back to the ego and the self the need that we we will never and we will not should not kill the ego will transform the ego along of many lives into the self and if we imagine and I I like this this figure imagine a line between the ego and the self where we want to achieve and where we are and in this line we are circle like in the corn yeah at the beginning we are surrounding the ego and we are still living with a lot of issues that pertain to the ego that means the proudness the power all that mechanism of the ego but then as much as we start knowing ourselves as we start dealing with ourselves what in Psychology they call the Shadows but what are the Shadows our our emotions that we don't realize that we are the way that we react there are several what they call Shadows what is is what we are and what causes pain suffering emotional pain sometimes also physical pain but as much as we start dealing with them we surround will evolve Life by life walking in each of them till at the end we can run faster and faster till we achieve the self Joanna Jones is this our spiritual Mentor she also has a nice figure for that that we are like um a diamond a raw diamond a raw diamond is dark it's a stone but as when you start polishing it when we start walking nicely it will shine is this self the self will always Shine the other figure is if you look a marmal foreign is mine the other the sofa the other does need and the people even ask God please I'd forgive him but God will never forgive let's not understand God and being he's still waiting yes yes once we are walking all those um misunderstanding about ourselves we were attain the the self who will shine we will make from our inner in a child like we many say we'll make a Michelangelo like in colander will have a pieta I love it I I think I

ng about ourselves we were attain the the self who will shine we will make from our inner in a child like we many say we'll make a Michelangelo like in colander will have a pieta I love it I I think I think this is a great thought I was going to ask if you had any final words to the audience as we come to an end hey Johnny but those are really beautiful thoughts so that we all can have uh this this mental picture of a beautiful pieta or a beautiful David sculptor as is was done by Michelangelo Michelangelo so with that we enclosed uh talk today and I want to thank you thank you who is watching us live and thank you hey Johnny thank you very much for the opportunity I hope someone will listen and start working in his own pieta awesome thanks everyone bye-bye bye foreign