Ep 141 - Psychology and Spirituality | Who Wants to Live Forever?

Hi everyone, welcome to Psychology and Spirituality, a bridge to a better life. Each week we explore the intersection of psychology and spirituality and we uncover timeless wisdom that helps me and I hope it helps you live with greater meaning and purpose. My name is Marcia Troen and with me today is Dr. Ana Seca. together we'll reflect on oh yeah what are the deepest questions of human existence what is the meaning of life what is the meaning of death specifically so how you doing >> I'm great and I'm feeling really great to be here with you again and everybody else >> very good it is so good to to have you with me and uh just wanted to maybe before we dive Fin um if we can pause right for just a second and uh reflect upon how cross history humanity has tried to make sense of death specifically right so if we go back in time in western ci civilization we go into the Egyptians and yes they built pyramids in my bucket list never been to Egypt but they built the pyramids It's to protect the soul's journey in the afterlife. So if we go back a few thousand years, we see the Greeks um and in Greek mythology specifically, we we hear about Orpheus descending into Hades for his love Aridsy. And uh that myth itself reveals both sorrow, right? the sorrow um sadness for the loss of a loved one. But he it also talks about the mystery of of death in that myth. And if we go to Eastern um history and religions and philosophies now we find in Buddhism death is not seen as an end but as rebirth. It is really all about this continuation of life's eternal cycle. And it is so good to think about it because all those traditions, religious, mythologies, storytelling or not, they remind me that humanity has always since that death is more than annihilation. It may in fact be transformation, right? It's this gateway to something greater. What are your thoughts? Anything comes to your mind when we talk about those broad strokes uh thoughts about death and uh how we manage it. Well, a lot of things come to my mind,

to something greater. What are your thoughts? Anything comes to your mind when we talk about those broad strokes uh thoughts about death and uh how we manage it. Well, a lot of things come to my mind, especially putting together the teachings of Joanna Danggeles and uh Jung's uh death psychology. So, when we put that together and we think about uh the consciousness and the way it evolves, right? Because Joanna says that the command of the mind is found in the spirit. >> Yeah. So as my colleagues that are materialist the and still have the materialistic thinking that the mind is produced by the brain right so when you die >> okay consciousness disappear because you disappear and there's nothing else right >> yeah yeah >> but Jonah says no the spirit and also Jung says that the psych is um caught between two dimensions, the biology, the biological, the material, right? Our in and our body of course >> and the spiritual dimension. So if we start thinking putting everything together as Jana says, wow the command of the mind is found in the spirit. So what does that mean? Right? And so we struggle because a lot of people nowadays with all the research in medical field in psychiatry and psychology near death experiences anomalous experience medianship that spiritism I study so much right spiritist knowledge. So the communication that we are able with our biology, the pineal glands, everybody knows about the pineal gland nowadays and mainly because of spiritist knowledge and spiritualist knowledge. This information comes through different >> um different um spiritual practices, right? that the pineal gland has to do with mediumship and all that. So, uh we are talking about our biology and our mind that it's not produced by the brain. It is its command is found in the spirit but it uses the brain to manifest in the body right >> to manifest in this world >> and to have this beautiful experience of this life. So that consciousness can evolve >> and our divine let's say the divine

uses the brain to manifest in the body right >> to manifest in this world >> and to have this beautiful experience of this life. So that consciousness can evolve >> and our divine let's say the divine sparkle within each one of us the IMO day >> the our image of God right and everything that it's divine within us psychologically speaking can evolve >> so it's a blessing to have this life and it's a blessing to die Mar and everyone >> everyone else but I was thinking when I was thinking all of that that you proposed this topic that we are discussing it came to my mind and it's not uh by chance and Joanna is inspiring us all that today I I was um having this I think it was in the YouTube that uh I I've heard that they are filming again >> a movie from the 80s, the Highlander. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And of course, when I was young and all this stuff. So, but what caught my attention in the movie that has some violin stuff, but it's also very philosophical. >> It was the beautiful song by Queen. >> Yeah. >> The band Queen from 1986. And it's exactly and I was listening to this today. Look at the synchronicity. So, and the music is who wants to live forever. >> Yeah. >> It's so beautiful. You sing this and it it it's in my mind's eye, right? This the the the not just the lyrics but also the melody. It's just beautiful. >> The melody. So I have the lyrics here and I would like us all and everybody that is listening to us >> to think because I think it this uh it's a mixture of our conscious the ego consciousness because who wants to live forever and we were all young many of us then and there are lots of young people that are going to see the movie again and I hope that they put queens song again and they cannot change that because it's iconic. [laughter] >> I'm gonna I'm gonna call the producer. Okay. >> Don't take out from the movie. >> Yeah. >> So, the look at the lyrics. Um, and you you guys that have already listened the music try to, you know, bring also the

I'm gonna call the producer. Okay. >> Don't take out from the movie. >> Yeah. >> So, the look at the lyrics. Um, and you you guys that have already listened the music try to, you know, bring also the song in our heads. So, the the lyrics says like this. There's no time for us. There's no place for us. What is this thing that builds our dreams yet tips them away from us? Who wants to live forever? There's no chance for us. It's all decided for us. This world has only one sweet moment set aside for us. Who wants to live forever? Who dares to love forever >> when love must die? But touch my tears with your lips. Touch my world with your fingertips. And we can have forever. And we can love forever. >> Forever is our today. Who wants to live forever? Forever is our today. >> Yes. So it's so beautiful. But can you see that when we look at that and I think Joanna inspired us and and helped us in this synchronicity >> because when we think about life and especially about death. Of course, the ego suffers. >> Yeah. >> Because all of our attachments, you know, all of our No, I I want to, you know, to love. I want to be in this time and place with the people that I love. >> Yeah. >> And I want this to be forever. >> Yeah. >> So, when we think about that, Marca, I I don't know what you think. I would love to hear because then for me it's like the ego. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And it's now and here and I don't want to let it go. >> Yes. Everything. I want the people that I love to be with me. I want to have this body to have youth to have you know because the Highlander was very young. I don't want to give spoiler to people. >> No, you can do it. You can do it. So I can tell you because interesting enough uh I think at the time my best friend my best friend this is 1980s right and I already lived in the US at the time and uh my best friend got a watch with a Highlander face and it was just like oh right and at the time and still today many people have the Mickey Mouse watch right face and those are iconic But that

and uh my best friend got a watch with a Highlander face and it was just like oh right and at the time and still today many people have the Mickey Mouse watch right face and those are iconic But that really tells us how truly iconic this this movie became. And um so for everyone just you know cover your ear if you're interested and want to be um you know used there isn't a new series coming. So uh maybe uh if you're like me I I read before I watch something that is a remake just to see the correlation between the before and the now. Right. But it's about this man that was born in the Middle Ages, 1600s, but he is fatally wounded in battle and doesn't die. Hey, we've seen another movie like that with I think Tom Cruz. I think the title was the edge of tomorrow that he was at the edge and he would die and you go a little bit further with the knowledge that he got and he would go and so it's it's um in this case of the Tom Cruz's um um film the plot was about that one day right the edge forever but back to um this beautifully uh m you know with the music as beautiful as that that you you you recited for all of us. It's about what do I do, right? Who wants to live forever? What do I do now that I c I know that I cannot die. So interesting enough is that um there is this other immortal that becomes his mentor and across the centuries that two of them work toward what is the meaning of life right what is the meaning of death what is the meaning of life and and I think um um what uh you don't see if I remember correctly in that movie throughout you know the the the person that lived in the 16th century is very different culturally. So I'm thinking um now from an ego perspective right the ego the egoic construct of a person that was born at that time is very different than say 1700s 1800s 1900s today right even if I go back to my my own childhood or my parents' childhood and the world has catapulted into so much different uh culturally speaking expectations and uh constructs of why what is to live and

t even if I go back to my my own childhood or my parents' childhood and the world has catapulted into so much different uh culturally speaking expectations and uh constructs of why what is to live and what is to die. So I think you're you're absolutely right in bringing this song to us because it uh it is remarkable how much we need to understand about the blessing as you said the blessing of life the blessing of death and the idea of the cyclical nature right and and from that perspective and I um maybe we can we can talk about one of the the what is it the top five fears that we all share. The number one is fear of death, right? Number one, it doesn't matter where you are, you we are all afraid of dying. And uh and we all know that that's the one thing that we all share. Birth, we all are born, but we all share that we all die at different times, different circumstances, different ages, but we all die. So as this final moment of life which is the uh uh going back to the title of that other movie the the edge of tomorrow right the edge of what is that material life with all the egoic construct to this other life which is much longer more beautiful right the the spiritual essence of that we all have as our destiny then there is fear so what's going to happen right so I think it's interesting maybe you can talk a little bit more and I about how Jung and how uh spiritism spiritualism any spiritual philosophy out there talk about uh um life and death and how it can help us perhaps refrain the idea of death. The definition of death as this end of it all to this continuation in a different dimension in a different expectation, a different aspect of our life. I don't know. Death is transformation. Um, any thoughts to that? >> Well, a lot of thoughts. [laughter] >> Great. uh because I think Marca and we are in this we have already talked in the podcast about this apocalyptic uh times that we are revelation right >> the time of revelation apocalypse as revelation >> so that we are all living and spirit's

in this we have already talked in the podcast about this apocalyptic uh times that we are revelation right >> the time of revelation apocalypse as revelation >> so that we are all living and spirit's knowledge is bringing this to bringing this to us from the >> the 19th century when and Kardak um you know had uh written down all the information coming from spiritual realms so that we know that this time of transformation it's a time of expansion of consciousness and uh is telling us that we are moving towards um you know this cosmic consciousness this is I think it's wonderful because >> it We we keep seeing ourselves as you know this little tiny and not so tiny when you are in a narcissistic position and you think you are wow I want to be the king of the world right >> uh but that's so silly because what is important is this exactly what you said the interconnection that we are all a family uh of spirits evolving together and that we need our body. We need this experience so that we can learn and even we are going to be reborn as many times in this dimension as uh we need >> to evolve and okay to go to the next step to the other worlds other dimensions to go on evolving but what what I think it's important Marca is that >> we our consciousness and all this materialist istic view of the world even in medicine unfortunately right. >> Yeah. >> So makes this makes us small >> because as the as the song says right. >> Yeah. >> Um >> who wants to love who dares to love forever when love must die? >> Why does love must die? You know. >> Yeah. >> Um >> uh why must love die? Sorry. No, and it's it's very interesting if you don't mind uh me me saying that uh I think you're going toward the idea does love die, right? >> Uh and and uh and does do we actually die, right? Do we actually die? Yes, there is a a physical death, right? And and I know for if you're here with us today right now and you're going through um the terrible sorrow that comes with grieving after the loss of a loved one, right? And

a a physical death, right? And and I know for if you're here with us today right now and you're going through um the terrible sorrow that comes with grieving after the loss of a loved one, right? And that's a moment that uh it's so dark because all we can feel is the absence, right? And I just the void of that person um a a child or a parent or your best best friend, best partner, whatever. And it's just this it's it's it takes the the the the sense of I'm okay. And and and uh so you you feel that love dies, but love doesn't. Love is the essence, the best of who we are. Is the part of us that can love and love transcends this physical life, right? Love >> transcends Mara and connects all of us. It doesn't matter >> which dimension we are, right? In the physical dimension, in the spiritual dimension. So I think it's very important because Janna says just to remind people that yeah self self capital S right the higher self >> within our psych is our spirit. So when of course we in the ego consciousness we are all going to suffer and we are all going especially in this situations as you said uh when somebody that we love so much um dies you know I know as a psychiatry also that the first cause of suffering number one >> is the death of a child you know your own child >> that's number one stressor uh that we can develop major depression and other psychiatric um disorders. But so that's why so important to talk about as we are doing today and to think with everybody together that we need desperately desperately not to talk about the suicidal uh rates that are go that are going up you know these days. Yeah, >> all over all over the globe. So it's not in especially in one country or the other. So what is very important I think urgent in this space is that we understand that for instance from the self from our higher self our spirit point of view. >> Yeah. >> Um Joanna even says that that the self is at the same time mortal and immortal. >> Yeah. mortal because when it reincarnates right

m the self from our higher self our spirit point of view. >> Yeah. >> Um Joanna even says that that the self is at the same time mortal and immortal. >> Yeah. mortal because when it reincarnates right >> it's going to have through the ego through the body an experience of finality if we can say that this as you said previously that the only thing that is certain is that >> we were born at some point and we are going to die period right yeah >> but this is the mortality that we experience here in this experience >> that is needed by the psych That is and I'm not I don't want to give spoilers but to use the movie >> Yes. [laughter] >> as an example >> the the his wife that he loved so much >> Yeah. >> grew old and died and he kept young. >> Yeah. >> Right. So that's why Queen made this beautiful who dares to beautiful song saying who dares to love forever when love must die >> but just this uh part of the lyrics and I remember the beautiful scene that she was old and he was holding her in his arms and she was dying >> and he was suffering because he loved her so much her wife his wife. So, uh would you dare to love uh someone that you you knew >> was going to die and you would be alone all alone when we know oh don't go away because then I will be all alone >> and I I heard it also this week and I think it's so beautiful when we connect everybody and share thoughts emotions about you know in reflections about this kind existence ial uh stuff. >> Yeah. >> That um there was a I think I was listening to a guy who was talking about meditation things like that. He's a mystic from Brazil >> and he said well when you meditate and you are in your solitude not in your solitude >> then you are not out of the world. You're meditating to connect to your higher self. >> But it's there that you find I think that's so beautiful, Martin, that you find everyone you love. >> Yeah, I I really like that. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and many people mix those two concepts. So I think uh maybe for all of

you find I think that's so beautiful, Martin, that you find everyone you love. >> Yeah, I I really like that. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and many people mix those two concepts. So I think uh maybe for all of us to to better understand right the feelings of loneliness is being alone. Solitude also references being alone but the experience is vastly vastly different right because when we say I feel lonely it's that uh a feeling of emptiness isolation disconnection right and it's very difficult for even for me to say that Ana because uh as we talked many times before uh we we call this world today as a distracted world it because we're so connected but we're more disconnected than ever right and uh and I I keep referencing for example this is just not not judgment but an observation while um on Saturdays when I I go see my in-laws because we eat before outside right in in a little restaurant and for the past I don't know two three months and I what I observe is a young father a young mother and a young child and they go and they sit close to me for example and uh what is very almost upsetting to me is that uh they sit and they go to their mobile devices and the child is like, "Hey, hey, it's just this popping up and down like a little balloon. Hi, mom. Hi, dad." And and and they are distracted from the moment, right? So even though they're together, uh maybe the child and the father and the mother in this case are also disconnected, right? So that's loneliness. And from an emotional um response to that what we see right and I it is painful it's almost this burden this heavy in our in our chest right and it can lead to sadness anxiety I don't know a feeling of rejection fear of abandonment so on so forth but you mentioned solitude and solitude is being alone by choice. But it's that moment where it's quite uh you mentioned u meditation, right? It's a rich and peaceful calm u nourishing moment where the result of that is not pain and sadness and anxiety, but it's really a moment for

ment where it's quite uh you mentioned u meditation, right? It's a rich and peaceful calm u nourishing moment where the result of that is not pain and sadness and anxiety, but it's really a moment for perhaps self-reflection. perhaps um creativity, right? U freedom and and it's such a a a something that uh somehow society we have um scorned the idea of being alone, right? We all need to be um in a crowd, part of a crowd, but it's not. Let us all uh have a a a change of how we see life because back to the song by Queen, right? Uh we we can dare to live in love forever. >> Forever. >> Yeah. >> The self will love forever. So I think you brought a very unfortunately um good example of disconnection. >> Yeah. and the way that we can be together and uh of course the ego is saying well I have my family I have my children here but if I'm not as the song says um and you talked about suffering also you see the child was very happy and wanted father and mother attention but if their attention and attention uh also has to do with consciousness Yes. Yes. >> And so if their attention is not in the child and it's in you know things that really are not are just um like deviation. It's a deviation. It's something it's taking us out of this life that it's so precious for us for the for the experience the learning and the evolving of the spirit. So if we don't look face to face as we are doing here, >> yeah, >> I'm looking to your face, you're looking to mine, but we are also connecting to other people's hearts >> and minds when we are talking in the podcast. So it's out of space and time. So when we are doing this and we are talking about the suffering of course this child was suffering Marca but she maybe she was trying to call attention of father and mother but why was she call trying to call their attention because she knew she didn't have their attention. So the suffering then like in that moment father and mother are alive. >> Yeah. But not not we could say uh spiritually alive with their hearts uh

ion because she knew she didn't have their attention. So the suffering then like in that moment father and mother are alive. >> Yeah. But not not we could say uh spiritually alive with their hearts uh and they are loving energy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Love child but they are not present there that time right that the song there's no time for us there's no place for us. So they are actually playing that because they are not in that time and in that place >> and I think that's a very shadowy thing of our days >> that we let our attention is uh be caught >> by things that are totally unimportant for the spirit. you know for the ego let's say the narcissist part of ourselves but not for the spirit. So um when after the lyrics says who wants to who dares to love forever when lover must when love must die that it's a materialistic uh view point of view of the ego. Yeah. >> Then it says that's that's archetypal creativeness of a great uh band, singer, artist. That's beautiful. They touch the archetype then it that's forever because it's our transpersonal dimension, right? >> Yes. Yes. >> So then in the sequence they say but touch my tears with your lips. With your lips. Yeah. >> Touch my world with your fingertips and we can have forever >> and we can love forever. So if I touch the tears of someone >> with my lips, if we kiss >> if we say that our attention >> is with them that our love connects with their love that we understand their suffering because we ourselves have have also suffered. So it's an archetype thing to this dimension of consciousness that we are but we are evolving. So suffering will change in our spiritual >> that's the good news our spiritual evolution we are not we will not suffer as we do nowadays. >> Yeah. >> But when we touch someone's tears with our lips. >> Yeah. >> Right. So we kiss them. We say that um my love is here, my heart is here searching yours and we are connecting. You are not alone. Uh we are together. Uh and the love that connects all of us and you know gives

we kiss them. We say that um my love is here, my heart is here searching yours and we are connecting. You are not alone. Uh we are together. Uh and the love that connects all of us and you know gives meaning and purpose to our suffering. suffering and acceptance of suffering is the way that we find uh that we evolve spiritually that we develop our spirituality because we bring meaning and purpose and so when I touch my world or someone someone's world with uh my fingers tips touch my world with your fingertips and we can have forever we can love forever because then I touch it's also symbolic, right? I touch >> someone's world, right? >> And I say that um my world and your world connect because they are in the depths of our psych. We are one, >> right? Because of the collective unconscious, because of our collective experience of evolution, because we have all of us uh this human inheritance, the archetypes that are evolving within us and the main one is our imag. We are sparkles of the same light. And so and love uh is the create is the force that creates everything and puts all us all together. So I think that's so beautiful because then he say they say who wants to live forever. No, sorry. And then say and we can have forever and we can love forever because then we are you see that the beautiful they come from the ego consciousness in this the lyrics >> to the uh self-consciousness right to the spiritual consciousness >> there is forever there's no separation there is no suffering because the self as [snorts] Joanna says is both mortal when it's leaving the material experience and immortal because it will never die. >> That is that is such a good circle to to from the song itself, the lyrics of the song, but also our understanding, right? That uh we live forever and we don't live forever. It's that dichotomy that that comes with self-awareness that is beyond I I think uh you reminded us so well the cosmic consciousness right when we are able to transcend the the now as the role the the the persona

chotomy that that comes with self-awareness that is beyond I I think uh you reminded us so well the cosmic consciousness right when we are able to transcend the the now as the role the the the persona the the the construct that my ego created to defend me. By the way, it's not bad. But but if we're able to transcend it, then we're able to accept the duality of living in the body but being more than the body, right? >> Yes. Exactly. And you know Joanna asks us to think to understand that we are thinking energy >> like the the spiritist knowledge brings to us. Right? So if we are thinking energy, we are co-creators in this sense of our own reality, right? >> Yes. Yes. >> So if we all could wake up to the reality of the spirit to to the forever is our today as the song ends, right? >> Yes. So because in the spirit we know that the time the time is a way that immortality only let's say collapses in the in the material world and universe let's say when we are in this material dimension then then we have past present and future [clears throat] >> but um actually in the dimension of the spirit is always today we already kind off, right? It it depends on how much this spirit is evolved because this is a highway stairway to heaven today in the dance, [laughter] you know, and inspired by the bands. >> Yeah. >> But okay. So in this term then we have different uh steps, different dimensions. So we know that in the more material dimensions or as much ego as we have of course we are going to be caught in this time right. >> But as as we we evolve and as we our spirit is free from the matter also we can think if our consciousness and if we really can work with our consciousness and evolve it. So we are going to understand as Joanna says we are thinking energy that okay >> now in this in this dimension I am mortal right yes >> and we have some limits and I will go through undergo some suffering because of course I'm going to feel in my ego that I'm losing things. >> Yeah. But if Joanna says that the

I am mortal right yes >> and we have some limits and I will go through undergo some suffering because of course I'm going to feel in my ego that I'm losing things. >> Yeah. But if Joanna says that the biological phenomena are very precious so that the spirit can acquire conscious uh self-consciousness right and and also consciousness uh of the higher self. So as as we understand ourselves as uh immortal spirits evolving >> Mhm. >> of course we we get uh we we kind of understand we better understand ourselves >> and we better understand uh the spirit that we are right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so that's and also we develop morally, intellectually, >> right? And in in knowledge also. So, it's very precious to have this uh this experience. And of course, well, but um you know, I don't want to be reborn because okay, I think it's cool to be here, but I think it's going to be better to be in other dimensions. Uh many people say that and keep asking themselves. Uh but actually if we can understand that we are both at this at the same time >> that we are also immortals. We don't have to be highlanders, right? >> But we are immortal. We are we are highlanders. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Actually, I was thinking of what the Highlanders did in the movie, but I'm not going to think about that because it's not, you know, uh I don't want to give spoilers. And it's the the part of aggressiveness in the movie >> that I think they were actually it's the bipolar structure that Joanna also and we have been talking about that to understand love you have to play the part of not loving someone. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And I think the movie also plays with that. >> But um Okay. >> I wanted to to bring something else because you you you touched upon very important aspects of of this topic today, right? Which is uh spiritual evolution and freedom and um um consciousness expansion. And those are interlocked with that biological uh mortal coil that we inhabit as a spirit inhabit this body, right? They go

ich is uh spiritual evolution and freedom and um um consciousness expansion. And those are interlocked with that biological uh mortal coil that we inhabit as a spirit inhabit this body, right? They go hand in hand. Uh but uh while we think about uh or remind ourselves that we're all energy, right? I just want to say this is a day for uh pop culture for us. But uh we talked about Highlander, The Edge of Tomorrow. We talked about Stairway to Heaven uh as well as uh Who Wants to Live To get Forever, right? Two amazing songs, by the way. But there's something else that if you like to to watch TV, I would highly recommend which um is a is a I think a multi-part maybe six sevenpart series ani that the title if I'm not mistaken is um connected connected the the hidden science of everything right and what is it about it's all about this um uncovering this journey to uncover how surprising but also how immensely complex, immensely intricate we are all connected to one another. So we're talking of course it's a it's uh not spiritual in vain. It's all about nature and how um continents apart for example or species apart that we're all connected and uh it it it talks about um patterns and how um weather and how all of it comes together even fossils into this web of uh how all of our lives vales feed into each other. So I I think it's super interesting uh to see to see that right and uh one of the aspects of it is that uh idea that we're all energy like you said and also and I think it's I forget his name Lavoisier right the Belgium um um chemist that talked about how in nature nothing is created nothing dies and I'm butchering the the saying uh but it's always transformed right and and I think it's so important for us to to really maybe all of us think about it as we we reflect upon death reflect upon life reflect upon the cycle and that bipolar aspect of our life as spirits having a physical experience right a corporeal existence um what does it all mean and it's all about uh transformation how we grow how

ect upon the cycle and that bipolar aspect of our life as spirits having a physical experience right a corporeal existence um what does it all mean and it's all about uh transformation how we grow how we evolve how we transcend every aspect and I love uh also what we talked about uh for the spirit there is no past or future it's always the now right >> always always and I I wanted to add Marta I know we are coming to the end but I wanted to said that Joanna also asks us to be responsible >> if we are thinking and reflecting. So we are awakened to the reality of the spirit and what we are doing here. >> So she asks us to be responsible >> and to as you said in the beginning not fear death. >> Yeah. Because if we fear death, we we get stuck in the ego and you know all the stress in the body and all the diseases and all this stuff. But if we understand as Janna says that um death is the vehicle she says >> that lead us lead the immortal being that we are to its destiny. Right. And um and what's the this destiny? It's the the knowledge and the development of the self, the the higher self, right? The our consciousness and also the numminous, the sacred, >> right? And the individuation, the wholeness, we could call the wholeness. >> Yeah. >> And and and the you know and planitude as she always uh asked us to remember. So death is just a portal and Y says that the psych >> doesn't doesn't bother with death because he he interprets so many the dreams and all of that of people that were in the process of dying >> and said well the psych you know >> care about death it's not preoccup worried about that >> I just wanted to end. We are we talked about Jung and >> with one of his um it sent us that it's in the red book. Okay. When he was struggling with all the material that came from the depths of his psych. >> So it's something archetypal that all of us um are struggling this apocalyptic days. And he says about the he says the spirit of the time whispered to me. So let's think of the spirit of the time that we

it's something archetypal that all of us um are struggling this apocalyptic days. And he says about the he says the spirit of the time whispered to me. So let's think of the spirit of the time that we are living these apocalyptic times whispering to us in the same way it it did to yung. >> Yeah. Yeah. So quote, "This supreme meaning, this image of God, this melting together of the hot and the cold, that is you and only you. But the spirit of the depths spoke to me. You are an image of the unending world. All the last mysteries of becoming and passing away live in you. If you did not possess all this, how could you know? >> So just to close in solitude, right? We have to listen to the spirit of the time >> and understand that all the knowledge because >> come on how many times we have already died. If we think about past lives, right? Yes. >> And we know that we go on. Who knows? The ego. No. The ego doesn't want to know because it wants to get attached to every this is mine, mine, mine. No. But >> everything is everybody's, right? The body, the matter. And we have to remember that the the matter, human life is transient >> and the matter is transient, right? So we are going to pass here to learn everything, pass through this life, learn everything together >> and also in solitude finding us all of us all the experiences that we share within ourselves within the higher consciousness and then love will last forever. >> I love >> as the Highlander says right. >> Yes. Yes. Beautiful. Beautifully said. I I really appreciate our conversation today and uh have to say I am now eager to to listen to this song with uh the beautiful voice of uh um >> Fred Mercury. >> Yeah, Fred Mercury and the band of course uh uh Queen. But uh let's just all of us take that with us. what what is the meaning of life? What is the meaning of death? And uh and let's also think about how life is indeed this amazing beautiful opportunity for growth and death is just this natural passage. So when we correlate those two

What is the meaning of death? And uh and let's also think about how life is indeed this amazing beautiful opportunity for growth and death is just this natural passage. So when we correlate those two definitions right those two concepts uh we really start to see spirit survives we also see that we ourself capital s we learn we evolve and step by step we get closer to the sense of uh using Joanna's words planitude you you also mentioned wholeness right or integrity but it's really all about our self realization. So I one key takeaway from today perhaps is that uh um our search for truth our own truth never ends. Right? So let's let's be curious about uh um in those moments of solitude lets us be curious and look within and uh see what is being revealed to us right and when we look inside and outside maybe we all going to reach this newly expanded view and even the magnitude of life you know life I would say capital L. So I I'd say both uh Jung and uh Joanna D'Angelus they point us to to the fact that death is not an end but the transformation and that certainty right um an certainty of being immortal gives meaning to everything we go through including those moments of suffering and they help us live with courage. marage with purpose and hope. So all of you, all of you who are suffering the loss of a loved one, always remember love doesn't die, right? Your loved one does not die and that we're here to kiss your tears with our lips. But uh everyone if this is is the first time that you you listen to us in our weekly podcast please note that we mention many different references but uh um our conversation is based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus and we hope that uh it's been a good conversation that you took some nuggets of uh at least inquiry into things and songs and movies and concepts and uh I want to say thank you. Thank you Na. It's just been a pleasure and also I would like to thank our sponsors uh Mel Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the international spiritist council and

ant to say thank you. Thank you Na. It's just been a pleasure and also I would like to thank our sponsors uh Mel Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the international spiritist council and Brazil, the Brazilian arm of that globe organization, the medical spiritist association. Thank you everyone. I appreciate you being with us and hope to see you again next week. Bye everyone. >> Bye bye.