Ep 134 - A Life of Harmony: A Path to Inner Balance

Hi. Hi everyone. Welcome to our program psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion. We have weekly episodes and uh every week we explore right Peter the intersection of spirituality and psychology. And yes, as a result, the the goal is to capture some nuggets of wisdom from both fields. My name is Marcia Tjanu and with me, you already heard me say hello to him, is Peter Hayes, who uh we are here to reflect on what does it mean to live fully. And that life that we're going to call it a life of harmony is a life that is lived ethically, consciously in both body and spirit. And uh Peter uh you and I I would like for us to explore that space that bridges our inner knowledge, our inner science, if you will, uh and the eternal truths of what it is to to live in harmony. And I would like to ask a single simple question. What does it truly mean to live and not merely exist? What are your thoughts? >> Well, first of all, thank you for having me here again. It's a pleasure to be here as always. We're always trying to figure out why am I here or what is the purpose of living? And one way to think about it, speaking of psychology and spirituality, is if classical Freudian psychology tended perhaps to focus mostly on our flaws, our pathologies and so forth. Joanna D'Angelus talks a lot about transpersonal psychology which is really about an exploration of the self to try to realize our deepest potential to connect to the deep self. As we try to connect to the deep self, it really strongly suggests that we are who we are right now. But that's not all there is. that there's much more that we can discover. We just have to have the passion, the patience, the willingness to continue the journey and to think a little bit more about what really matters. Because as we as we live here on Earth, we tend to get very preoccupied with um the families we're in. We get preoccupied with the careers we have. We get preoccupied with the problems that come our way and so forth. But is that

e on Earth, we tend to get very preoccupied with um the families we're in. We get preoccupied with the careers we have. We get preoccupied with the problems that come our way and so forth. But is that all there really is? And when we think about our relationship to who we are, the big one is our relationship to our bodies. >> Yeah. >> The idea of mortality, right? >> Um >> it's a paradoxical relationship, right? It's complex and it's there's a paradox because it's you're you're attempting to talk about my let's say Marcia, right? Marcia's relationship with Marcia the spirit but then in between there is the relationship of Marcia and the body and the personality of this incarnation. Correct. >> Yes. Because the bodies we're in at the moment >> can offer all kinds of opportunities I suppose trials. Um you know there's so much one could say about the relationship that we have in our bodies. People have all kinds of im you know body images which people some people are happy in their bodies others are not happy at all in their bodies. Some can do quite a bit with their bodies. Others are very restricted within their bodies. And whatever our reality is, there's a lot of um well really opportunity for spiritual awareness and a deepening understanding of who we are. Um, depending upon what we're dealing with in our physical bodies, there's lessons about patience, resignation, but there's also lessons about um testing ourselves and seeing what what we're really capable of doing. Think of u, you know, athletic um accomplishments, but artistic accomplishments. >> I Oh my goodness. I we we are really connecting here. I was thinking exactly that on one hand the extreme physicality of and what you saying athletes what came to my mind was dancers right belly dancers and there all of that athletic capabilities but then also the capabilities of uh the artistic uh imagination and creativity on the other. But go ahead. Sorry, I had to interrupt because you're we're right there. >> Yeah, that's a good se segue because as

lso the capabilities of uh the artistic uh imagination and creativity on the other. But go ahead. Sorry, I had to interrupt because you're we're right there. >> Yeah, that's a good se segue because as somebody who does ballroom dancing >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I have certainly appreciated that. Yes. You spend time learning the steps. You spend time remembering the choreography. >> Yeah. working on, you know, depending on the type of ballroom dancing, body posture, which is common and and more uh traditional ballroom dancing, but like with samba, it's more about being relaxed and not, you know, the posture so much. But what I want to get at is with dancing there's all the effort in learning how to you know to dance and and to work with another person which in itself is a complex pursuit because you know learning how to partner with somebody and really interact with that person you know I go then you go kind of exchange of energies between someone but then there's also a point in dance where you just do it and you don't think about it anymore. You just go for it. >> Um, in fact, if you think about it too much, you're probably going to get into trouble. >> Are are you talking about maybe muscle memory? Uh, >> muscle memory. In other words, once you get muscle memory, you're not thinking, well, first I'm going to go here and then I'm going to go there and then I'm going to go there. In other words, if you're too self-conscious, >> it can actually get in the way. >> Yeah. >> Now, why am I talking about this? Because that too is just a lesson that one can learn in relation to one's body, you know. And the great thing about like the ballroom dancing I'm involved with, there are people who can are in wheelchairs, they're dancing, >> all kinds of body types. So you don't have to be thin and and you know there are people I remember one person I saw who's was kind of a big guy he was great in terms of how he could move. >> So you know that in itself is just one example of how depending on the kind of body we have

eople I remember one person I saw who's was kind of a big guy he was great in terms of how he could move. >> So you know that in itself is just one example of how depending on the kind of body we have why do we have to limit ourselves into thinking oh I don't have the body to do such and such. >> Uh people defy that all the time don't they? Um so you know many times when we go through life in our bodies >> there's the the particular um both benefits and challenges we go through in relation to our bodies >> and there's sort of the underlying current of well I've only got so many years on here on earth in this particular body. Um, and if we live long enough, we go through the aging process. Um, yeah, there's a funny quote from the playwright, the British playwright George Bernard Shaw, >> I believe, who said this, >> youth is wasted on the young. >> I love it. >> Absolutely. And it's, you know, it's it's um we and yet we have to navigate all the changes that we go through. Um it's essential. I mean, do we if again if we live long enough, we would go through the aging process. >> Yeah. >> Are we going to be depressed as our body changes? as we can't maybe do the same things as we get older that we did when we were younger or or we have more aches and pains and stuff like that happening >> or Angelus really advises us to learn how to navigate these things. >> Yeah. >> To kind of >> go with the flow as it were and >> and and and she says something um in in one of her books. She says life is the phenomenon that animates matter. Right? And we and we could unpack that in so many different ways. Life is the phenomenon life >> that animates matter. Right? So when we talk about it, um, Peter, the the the interpretation that I have from that simple sentence from Joanna the angels that, uh, this is a reminder that life is more than boom, right? The heartbeat >> or breathing or even cognitive uh, neural. I'm I'm reading I I have it in my in my desk right now. this really I don't know

uh, this is a reminder that life is more than boom, right? The heartbeat >> or breathing or even cognitive uh, neural. I'm I'm reading I I have it in my in my desk right now. this really I don't know if you've seen this it's a a really interesting book on um it's in Portuguese uh but but it's it's original original in English the spiritual intelligence by Dana Zohar and Ian Marshall it is all about cognition and and IQ EQSQ right so it's very much in my mind the cognitive uh um uh function of one's brain and intelligence. But then she goes into all about emotions and spiritual uh quotient or or intelligence. But, you know, despite all of that that's coming to to us as I'm reading this book, um, we we we really see that life is consciousness, right? That's that's what life is. Consciousness is what animates our body, right? Well, doesn't consciousness give off energy too which can certainly >> give vitality to the body? >> Yeah. But overall on one hand uh human life our lives I'm not talking about plant life or or whatever this book talks about it by the way. So, but human life is not um limited to a biological life, but there is a sacredness to it that is quite important for us to to to talk about, right? This this idea that we are um immortal >> spirits living a journey that is it doesn't die, right? And in this journey that say yours or mine um started uh decades ago in the moment of conception and uh my spirit connected to this body when it was just a baby and it ends at the moment of my physical death or my disincarnation as spiritism calls this moment where the spirit is free, right? It's the return to to the spiritual dimension, to the real home, >> but um we are not our bodies, right? So, we are not our bodies. We're spirit inhabiting a body, but we really need to and going back to what you're saying previously, uh we need to really honor and care for the body, right? So it's it's almost this eternal or immortal better yet beings clothed temporarily in if you

o and going back to what you're saying previously, uh we need to really honor and care for the body, right? So it's it's almost this eternal or immortal better yet beings clothed temporarily in if you will the the garments of time and biology. But uh if we talk about it and you mentioned the uh why not uh expand the boundaries of what we can do with this body be it creativity and we're talking about cognition now right in the IQ in the IQ EQ SQ right uh cognition or it could be the physicality of the body through dance through whatever but uh if we flip the coin pain. Uh what about death, Peter? Can we can we talk about why >> do we even perhaps uh need to to die? And and the thoughts that come to my mind is uh there's many thoughts. So let me just see if I can put in a way that uh we can talk about it. But first of all is it's not as immortal spirits the the end of this journey on earth this time is just the end of a chapter not the end of the book right and there is a ne necessary perhaps transition from one chapter to the next chapter uh but um what happens uh when in the moment of death the spirit spirit is detaching itself, right? Uh because Joanna D'Angel spoke or stated in one of her books, which was kind of scary to me when I first read it, that not everyone who dies >> disincarnates right away, >> right? >> And I'm like, what Joanna? What are you talking about? And and to me, it's all about detachment. detachment from our illusions, from our possessions, from our egos, constructs, etc. Can we talk a little bit about all that emotional entanglement that can become our prison and uh having a a life in harmony is not bad. Right. >> Right. Well, first I would like to suggest that I think in this life we should be in our bodies. In other words, spirituality is not trying to leave the body all the time and somehow be elsewhere. >> Yeah. >> That we need to be integrated with our bodies because that's part of what our time here is about. >> Yeah. >> But to answer your question or to try to

ll the time and somehow be elsewhere. >> Yeah. >> That we need to be integrated with our bodies because that's part of what our time here is about. >> Yeah. >> But to answer your question or to try to I don't know if I'm going to answer at least reflect on it. >> Yeah. about the facing death. Are we able to see our body as something that is temporary and truly embrace what that means? Meaning that we're able to adjust and let go as changes occur and they will inevitably occur. >> Yeah. >> It's not we don't have a choice about the changes. we do have a choice about how we navigate the changes of that point. Um when if if when Joanna to Angela says we uh we don't necessarily disincarnate what comes to mind >> is that if we have defined ourselves primarily as life in this body and life through everything that we had in this life. Then when that changes, when the body is is dis disincarnates emotionally, if the spirit is continuing, the spirit hasn't made the adjustment. The spirit still thinks it's living in the house that it's been living in for the last 40 years. >> Yeah. >> There's several horror movie about it, right? >> Yes. And this gets into the subject of mediumship and spiritism because >> often in mediumistic meetings. >> Yeah. >> Call a suffering spirit or spirits that do not realize they've passed. >> Yeah. >> They still think they're alive. Sometimes they're still trying to, you know, they can't understand why they can't go back into the house that they were in before or they uh they've created a reality for themselves that is very fixed >> and as far as they're concerned, they're still alive. Alive meaning they're still here on earth. >> Yeah. The spirit is continuing but the emotional attitude is putting limits on what the spirit can experience. >> I love I love what you're saying by the way. Yeah. Because it is so important, right? Those are and and I swear to you, Peter, the image that came right to my mind was the movie The Others. I don't know if you've seen

t you're saying by the way. Yeah. Because it is so important, right? Those are and and I swear to you, Peter, the image that came right to my mind was the movie The Others. I don't know if you've seen >> I may have seen it, but if so, it was a while back. >> Yeah, it's uh it's a and there's a a plot twist, right, where they're all those those people, this family, and and they start to, you know, there's all this thing about the the locks, th the the mother with all those keys, and she keeps looking. But it's again it's a it's a Hollywood uh a bit of horror into it. Uh and it treats mediumship but also treats that uh uh and it's not one or two but the entire family they feel threatened because they start to see things. Right. >> Right. >> And they start to hear noises and everybody it's just really difficult. But the plot twist is that they are the spirits, >> correct? >> That never let that never left the house. So the others that we think are those spirits, but they're they're the spirits and the others are the new family that live is now living and they're the worlds are colliding, if you will. But back back to what we're really talking about, not movie here, uh movie commentary, but it's it's all about uh >> how do we really prepare >> uh not to not live, right? You you you mentioned this, we need we're here. There's a reason for us to to live in this material experience. So let's live and and really live authentically with what we are right with the dance movements and hunger pains and all in between right uh but uh the the issue here is >> um not not resist I guess is the word not resist the next step which is when we move on to the next stage of our lives, right? >> It's it's like it's the question, how do we develop that capacity to let go when we need to let go? >> Yeah. >> I mean, let me see if I can come up with a a kind of mundane example. >> If you get on an airplane and you leave, you know, this country and you go into another country. >> Yeah. >> Are you okay when you get off the

see if I can come up with a a kind of mundane example. >> If you get on an airplane and you leave, you know, this country and you go into another country. >> Yeah. >> Are you okay when you get off the airplane? Are you kind of okay, I'm here and I'm making the adjustment and so forth or are you completely disoriented, totally confused, dizzy, perhaps don't even want to be there, you know, and so forth, you know, it makes a difference. So, what is our real temperament? Are we able to um allow change to happen? >> Yeah. >> Or desperately trying to hang on to what was happening yesterday. Yeah, I have to tell you I you're listening so many visual cues in my in my mind when you're talking today, Peter. It's funny. Uh I've been to Germany many times, but the first time I went, >> it's almost this body that's not prepared to to disincarnate. >> Yes. >> Uh a horrible trip. Uh I did not I could not speak the language, right? I did not uh it just everything that could go wrong. It was a comedy of errors, if you will. And uh there was a boy behind my seat that kicked me throughout the night. So I slept zero minutes. And I got there, I was confused. I was in in a no country. And I did take my passport, right? And I I had an address, but I didn't not know how to get there. It was in a different city. Um, the taxi that I paid too much did not even know where was my address. It's And today, and I say this is I so long ago, uh, it was just this silly young person that did not know how to prepare. >> Today, every time I move, I I I contemplate going to another country uh, with another language. You'd better believe I'm studying the language. I even though electronic uh can give it all. We don't need to print anything. I have it printed. I I really compensate so that I'm not anymore unprepared to get there. But back back to dying, right? Uh and I love that example. Really good. What how would how we do it? Can we maybe reflect together? Right? Do we live in a way that we could >> be ready to that less confusing

k back to dying, right? Uh and I love that example. Really good. What how would how we do it? Can we maybe reflect together? Right? Do we live in a way that we could >> be ready to that less confusing continuation of our lives? >> I would I would put an emphasis on less confusing confusing. I think there will be confusion of some kind. But again, >> it really depends on what is our outlook. I mean, if I'm somebody who doesn't believe in the afterlife, if I believe that this is pretty much it, >> and once you die, that's it. >> There's nothing, >> then it's hard to kind of, I think, embrace the possibility of continuing. >> Yeah. >> Well, I just, you know, somebody who thinks that way may just flat out reject it. >> Yeah. and and insist that that's wrong, that that's not how life is versus somebody who does, you know, embrace and really internalize the idea that we're immortal spirits because it makes a big difference. I mean, it makes a big difference how you >> Yeah. >> confront every day of your life, I would say, just about. >> Yeah. >> Very, very interesting. Right. And I I I this is just for you, for me, and for everybody else who's here with us today, right? Uh let's let's think if if I am going on that trip to Germany, right? No, I'm actually getting ready to go to to the uh going back to my spiritual dimension. Um and we're not um incentivizing anyone to live recklessly. and uh lead to uh accidental death or whatever, right? That's not it. >> No. Uh but what are our inner habits, if you will, our inner life? What are our belief systems? What are desires that uh are erroneously or not anchored into ideas that are illusions, right? and >> really everything about the material life that we think is so deeply important. You know, our social institutions. >> Yeah. >> The careers we have, the families we're in, the house we live in. It's not that these things don't matter and we shouldn't care about them. We do. But at the same time part of you know one way to as Jesus emphasizes you know the

ilies we're in, the house we live in. It's not that these things don't matter and we shouldn't care about them. We do. But at the same time part of you know one way to as Jesus emphasizes you know the kingdom of God is within right. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So if we're trying to connect to God within us then what that does is it can open up the door so that no matter what is going on around us we're more at peace. >> Oh love it. >> Love it. I love that. Right. Um so just to be clear those are not morbid thoughts it's really liberating actually thoughts right because in fact we are >> we are how we live right Peter um and uh in that sense we have we can say how consciously how ethically how lightly even we live so that when we are ready to move on, take that proverbial trip to another country, we will be able to do do that in a less confusing matter without less uh disruption. So I I can imagine that preparing for death, it's no longer about being afraid, but it's about clarity about life. this life that we live in a way that it it cultivates um a detachment uh and what I mean by that is not to be obsessing or even identified with things that are ephemeral in nature right would be preoccupations with fear >> for instance >> you know it's you know in In Alcoholics Anonymous, they tend to stress let go and let God. >> Yeah. >> So, it's it's that idea, I think, that you can apply to life in general, which is that um you know, what things do we really have control over and what things don't we have control? >> Yeah. Love it. >> Think about what we're going through at our m right now in our lives and ask ourselves, do I have control over this? Yeah, kind of. What about this over here? Nope, not really. You know, on down the line. >> Yeah. And and we we live in a in a situation globally speaking of certain such ambiguity, right? Such uncertainty, complexity, and at the end of the day, everybody is afraid of something either global pandemic or political upheaval or conflicts or war and you name it. just

such ambiguity, right? Such uncertainty, complexity, and at the end of the day, everybody is afraid of something either global pandemic or political upheaval or conflicts or war and you name it. just the list can go on. So it it is trying to to live in peace and not let those disruptors disrupt us, if you will. Right. >> Yeah. And and I would like to gently suggest that if we insist on absolute certainty, >> it's probably going to create a lot of instability and anxiety within ourselves. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we want some stability, of course, but you know, what do we mean by stability? Because life is frequently in a state of flux. That doesn't mean everything's chaotic. It doesn't mean everything's random. >> But the idea that everything is going to remain exactly the same no matter what, >> how often does that happen? >> Yeah. And and you you make me make me remind um this is uh workrelated, right? Um I managed a program for the company that I I work for >> uh called the the the business continuity, right? And uh and what we did, we had to go through all sorts of uh process inventories and blah blah blah and and and create um uh tools for continuity or uh you know not so much remove the possibility of disruptions but be ready when the disruption occurs. But there's something very interesting in I spent years with that uh this is many many many years ago. Uh but one of the biggest teachings from that program Peter was it's not about um remove avoid right uh uh even get every sort of uh insurance there is to to protect you from if this happened if this happened if this happened. But it's all about preparation to be resilient, right? To to in in strengthen our resilience when things do happen. And and I think it it goes into a little bit to what you're saying, which is um if we want to control our environment, we we're going to not live, if you will. going to be, you know, absolutely in uh encapsulated in a dome with oxygen that is controlled and everything is so

is um if we want to control our environment, we we're going to not live, if you will. going to be, you know, absolutely in uh encapsulated in a dome with oxygen that is controlled and everything is so controlled that you don't live. That's not what we're saying. On the other hand, um we really need to to see what do I need to become more resilient. What do I mean by that? Well, when there is a disappointment, when there's a frustration, when there is a resentment with somebody uh doing something that hurts you, all of those, and I'm talking now about emotional, the emotional landscape, right? But this is emotional. It can be a reverse of fortune, if you will. you you you have you're in a position that either by family, career or marriage, whatever. You you're really in a good social economic status and boom, something happens, you lose it all. How do you stay sane? >> Well, you learn to adapt in the moment. It's like if you planned the perfect wedding, whatever one the perfect wedding and there's all these moving parts and everything has to be just right and perfectly timed and everyone be, you know, doing what they're supposed to be doing and what happens if things start >> the rain. Yeah, rain comes. I I did go to a wedding where they had plan A and plan B. It was a beautiful outside wedding and it rains. Yes. >> So, do you adapt in the moment and make it work or do you fall apart and go ballistic? I mean, >> not easy. Not easy. But let's Yeah, let's talk maybe a little bit if you don't mind because it's it's intertwined, right? We have talked so much about suffering >> and there's a reason because in the work of Joanna D'Angelus she talks about suffering a lot right and basically um you know if we think about it suffering is not a punishment is not a curse it is maybe we could call it our crucible right uh it's here to to shape us, to refine us, to awaken us >> to our deeper nature, right? And and it impacts everybody. I have to say 8 plus billion uh people, right? Today, that's

it our crucible right uh it's here to to shape us, to refine us, to awaken us >> to our deeper nature, right? And and it impacts everybody. I have to say 8 plus billion uh people, right? Today, that's the one thing we have in common. All of us have some sort of suffering that we we share in in in in this. But uh from that perspective, right, how to um maybe get to that psychological maturity or spiritual maturity, resilience as we mentioned and even compassion when we are either facing suffering or see someone who is suffering a loved one and I think It's it's all about maybe the question here is uh how do we use even today right now this moment of discussion to reflect upon and identify the moment of really difficult time when we suffered and was not insignificant right but maybe reflect upon how perhaps that suffering made us better, right? A crisis or a loss or or or something like that. I don't know. Maybe we can talk a little bit about the suffering as a platform to push us to >> suffer offers a lot of lessons and resignation. >> Yeah. faith that whatever is happening no matter how difficult it is in the moment do we accept it to the extent that we don't fight it tooth and nail >> but we also >> use our faith to try to work our way through it. Um I like uh I think it's the gospel according to spiritism says when you're sick call a doctor. So if we're suffering, we also if we can do something about it, we should >> don't just sit there and go, "Oh, well, it's God's will. I I just I just have to endure it." >> Yeah. >> You know, I think we've talked about this and I'm sure this subject has come up in other episodes, but >> suffering is not an excuse to be massochist. So >> about whatever the suffering is, um we do our best to confront it somehow or to >> navigate and figure out how to handle it or manage it maybe. >> Yeah, >> we can minimize it. We should I would say >> you know St. Augustine in again the gospel according to spiritism >> he tends to be thankful for moments of

ow to handle it or manage it maybe. >> Yeah, >> we can minimize it. We should I would say >> you know St. Augustine in again the gospel according to spiritism >> he tends to be thankful for moments of suffering and and I think people may find that confusing because oh what you like to suffer >> but his point is is that if you can get through it it's a victory because you have >> spiritually like you were just saying >> a moment >> um so we may not we don't want to go artificially looking for problems. But at the same time, >> when things do happen, don't be afraid to try to um work our way through it, whatever. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I and I see as um maybe my my words here would be when we honor >> the mo honor, right? the moment of suffering as part of our journey and the journey that leads us to our own growth and evolution. >> This evolvement as a spirit. uh we also change the lens by which we see suffering uh not as punishment but also we stop seeing ourselves through the lens of a victim and maybe we change it to the lens of being a student right yeah what why this is happening what yeah exactly and and not ask that question out of self-pity >> yeah Yeah. >> Does it mean something that this has happened? >> Yeah. >> Well, it could be a lot of things. It could be yes, it's something that I need to learn or there's an opportunity to learn. It may be that I tend to attract certain types of suffering. Maybe there's something about me that I need to change so that I don't keep running into the same kind of suffering in different variations but a similar pattern. um you know so suffering also is very much about responsibility. What responsibility >> do I have in relation to whatever this moment of suffering is? So self-awareness, this waking to patterns and and maybe that idea of my own responsibility uh to address this type of suffering, >> right? >> So that I can, you know, I can stop it somehow. >> Yeah. If a family member that we care about is sick or, you know, there's a

my own responsibility uh to address this type of suffering, >> right? >> So that I can, you know, I can stop it somehow. >> Yeah. If a family member that we care about is sick or, you know, there's a medical emergency, do we drop everything and >> Yeah. >> and, you know, try to be there? that kind of thing. >> We're not going through the physical suffering ourselves, but it is affecting us. So, >> yeah. >> And and Peter, um this made makes me think of you started our conversation today to to talk well, you know, talk about self-awareness, right? and the complexity of the life that we live and uh and um uh you also mention that the join of the anggeles brings uh a transpersonal or depth psychology to to to look inside of ourselves and it's it's quite interesting because we we do live in this highly highly complex environment and turning inward in this journey to self-awareness, selfnowledge, right, is is quite difficult because it's complex and and I I don't I don't want to see myself. I don't want to look because there's so many layers to see the layers of Marcia as a spirit versus Marcy as this multitude of personas developed to to to create that public persona that I want everybody to see that edited version of myself. Right? We also talk about uh childhood traumas or wounds. Uh we talk about this this um environmental uh influences, spiritual influences, uh the residues if you will from past lives, all of it makes it very very complex. And uh uh could we talk about maybe the role of uh uh things such as psychotherapy to to help us as a almost as a partnership to help us in this path? Um well, therapy of course is very much encouraging us >> to better understand ourselves, to not be afraid. And as we go through that process, it's very much about freeing ourselves of things that maybe were were troubling to us as much as we can. But depending upon which branch of therapy we're talking about like transpersonal psychology which uh Joanna Angelus talks about a great deal

gs that maybe were were troubling to us as much as we can. But depending upon which branch of therapy we're talking about like transpersonal psychology which uh Joanna Angelus talks about a great deal >> that is very much focused on the exploring the potential of who we are connecting to the deep self um and not just defining ourselves based upon the problems we have at the moment. >> Oh I love that. Yeah >> right. We have to deal with those problems of course, >> but at the same time are we able to really see what we're >> who we really are, what we might really be capable of. Again, goes back to what we were talking about before about the body. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Body we have, >> what can we do with this body that we have? >> Yeah. >> A lot more than we think we can. >> Yeah. And and the exploration of the spiritual side of ourselves through therapy, through uh psychology is very very much be about that where we uh especially therapy like transpersonal psychology that embraces a more holistic approach where >> um we're trying to um you know we don't >> merely define ourselves >> as who we are at the moment, but also what can we be as we keep going. >> And and this is important for us to bring here uh as we're talking about this subject of living a life with harmony is and you mentioned already actually when you reference to Alcoholic Anonymous, right? It it is really all about uh not removing all the threats and risks or controlling the outside world but it is really learning to know yourself and transforming your inner world right and there are things such as uh the path for self-nowledge right the responsibility as you as you mentioned um really dissolving all that uh illusions that we have shedding false beliefs uh or even myths and stories that no longer serve us, right? We we sometimes hold on to certain truths that are just a story, just a myth, but also being able to transcend our ego uh defense mechanism, right? Go beyond uh arrogance and pride. um control even fear of demonstrator

ld on to certain truths that are just a story, just a myth, but also being able to transcend our ego uh defense mechanism, right? Go beyond uh arrogance and pride. um control even fear of demonstrator vulnerability etc etc but uh I think uh uh Peter we are somehow at time this has been such a good discussion with you and I I just love it every time we come together we I feel that we can uh go on and on and on. Do you have any final thoughts that you would like for us to end our time together with? >> I think um well to to kind of continue what you were just saying, >> you know, this is fundamental I think in meditation, but the mind can be very controlling and very doineering in many ways. And so part of >> spiritual progress is to try to be more at ease with the mind and not to um just allow it to be that that team of wild horses running around all over the place. >> I love it. Yes. Yes. I love it. >> What fun that is, right? But >> yeah, >> but uh the more we can do that, it actually connects to some of the things we were talking about in terms of how do you navigate death for instance or how do you navigate transitions of any kind? And and again repeating what we talked about before in terms of being emotionally flexible. And in order to be emially flexible, I'd like to suggest that >> we have to know how to be more at peace with what is going on around us and with ourselves. And part of that I think would strongly suggest that the mind is not racing around and that we learn to calm down the mind because the mind is quite capable of creating all kinds of distortions and and and illusions that you were mentioning before >> that uh can be a lot of unhappiness and probably unhappiness that is not necessary. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, >> so the more we can do that sort of thing, the more it changes us internally is to just how we I think see life with the body, see life as we go through it every day. And then we learn to um just move along with the with the constant ways in which life transforms.

s internally is to just how we I think see life with the body, see life as we go through it every day. And then we learn to um just move along with the with the constant ways in which life transforms. The transformations may be subtle. Sometimes the transformations are kind of abrupt. But can we, >> you know, learn to handle transformation period and not be afraid of it. >> Ah, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful for all of us, right? Uh we we keep hearing that the only constant in life is change, right? let us be able to be adaptive and be able to to navigate those transitions. And uh as we wrap up now, uh Peter, I just want to say living in harmony does not mean living without conflicts. Right? Correct. We will will face conflicts at every almost every moment of our lives. But it is having right we have the strength uh flexibility, resilience, peace to to to deal with all those conflicts to face life with a sense of clarity but also with love and purpose and confidence as well. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. But I want to say everyone thank you. Thank you Peter. Thank you everyone for joining us and I just hope that all of our lives, yours and mine are filled with um conscious choices, meaningful growth, right? And that we can achieve the serenity that comes from this life that is peaceful and full of harmony. Um if um this is the first time that you are listening to our program, our um psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna D'Angelos. You you heard us throughout the past 40 plus minutes referencing her, right? And we do hope that you're able to start to connect the points between spirituality concepts as well as psychological um points and lenses. And Peter, thank you so much for being with us. And >> thank you. Pleasure to be here. >> Yeah. And I also want to thank our sponsors, the United States Spirits Federation, the International Spiritist Council and Army Brazil, which is the Brazilian arm of the Global Medical Spiritist

e. >> Yeah. And I also want to thank our sponsors, the United States Spirits Federation, the International Spiritist Council and Army Brazil, which is the Brazilian arm of the Global Medical Spiritist Association. We'll be back next week and thank you everyone. Appreciate you being here with us. >> Byebye.