Ep 63 - Conflicts

hello everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Marcia trano and with me is Peter Hayes who is the president of the spiritist group love and light in Newark New Jersey most of us prefer to get through our days without uh end up in an argument right we we kind of look forward for a day of Harmony understanding collaborative or even constructive interactions with oh what family colleagues neighbors whoever unfortunately Peter we live in a time of such extreme social and political polarization I'm wondering if asking for all of us to get long is even realistic anymore but but but before we address that let me go ahead and tell everyone if this is the first time we watching this podcast like program please note that uh the program the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna deangeles and we're here to offer a safe space to confront compare correlate and expand spirituality Concepts from a psychological lens and bringing insights into oh having a better life right helping us live better today's episode is brought to you by our friends at spiritus group love and light and to know more about that organization visit www.l andlight nj.org the overall program is sponsored by several organizations they are United States Spirits Federation TV Mano International Spirits Council and Amy Brazil make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already done so and if you'd like to check out other channels or more information about what we're doing please check us out at www.sp spiritist do us we'd love to hear from you so please write down your thoughts your comments your feedback anything and if you have any questions perhaps we can get to those at a later episode Peter I start talking about this oh so polarized Society it is a a time that it feels like I don't know everything is a source of a conflict but uh what is a conflict right and I if you go into just a dictionary there's several definitions of conflict and one

is a a time that it feels like I don't know everything is a source of a conflict but uh what is a conflict right and I if you go into just a dictionary there's several definitions of conflict and one of the most literal translation or I'm sorry of definition is really it's the competitive or opposing action of incompatible right so it's some sort of antagonistic state where perhaps Di mergent ideas interest or even personalities just create that conflict like a conflict of interest it can also be defined as the mental struggle and this is really important right the mental struggle that result from incompatible or opposing needs drives wishes oh inner and outer external or internal demands so I would like for us Peter to talk to today about these type of conflicts those that result from the opposing needs and demands and demands from our lives can we talk about that and do you want to go ahead and say something about the subject the mic is yours okay I think I'd like to start with a slightly different other question which is which is should we be afraid of conflict goal of Happiness to eradicate conflict from our lives so that we're always Serene and tranquil and so forth I love that right should we be robot likee happy Zen all the time right Perpetual state of Zen exactly yes it's impossible to eliminate conflict from our existence and maybe that makes a lot of people fearful but when we talk about conflict you mentioned that conflict can be opposing forces conflict can also just mean getting from one place to another conflict can mean all the challenges that we have both physical and emotional which can certainly be happening with other around us or strangers we come into contact with it could also be within ourselves our own conflicts are we afraid of doing certain things do we hold ourselves back in certain ways do we have a lot of negativity within us which is certainly what psychology tries to help us with yeah so conflict means a lot of different things it it's it's

o we hold ourselves back in certain ways do we have a lot of negativity within us which is certainly what psychology tries to help us with yeah so conflict means a lot of different things it it's it's both internal and external that way and even if we make some strives and and things that maybe troubled Us in the past don't bother us so much now does that mean there won't be other conflicts that come our way do we have to go looking for conflict because we somehow think that it makes us stronger I would say no because we're going to I think the point is is that conf conflict is unavoidable in many ways but it also can be avoided in others can you explain to that for me Peter how it can be avoided well when we talk about conflict between people like current political climate as you were mentioning I'm gonna do a very simplified version of this but in developmental psychology one of the things that talks about is different levels of cognitive development which often centers around dualistic thinking lower levels of cognitive development would be my opinion of things is right and those of you who disagree with me are just completely and totally wrong end of subject right so at the lower end of that spectrum is people who for those who don't agree with them they must be annihilated they're in the way way they don't have a soul they have no right to exist terrorists act that way fundamentalists or people who are fanatical connect but sometimes people as they increase they may be more my group is right and most other groups or all other groups that don't agree with me are are wrong that's maybe slightly better but it's still a kind of variation on dualistic thinking and then as people start to develop further that they start to reach a point where maybe they begin to realize they're other points of view that are also valid besides their own and sometimes you can take that a little too far and think that everything is equally valid at all times but when you talk about the political

ther points of view that are also valid besides their own and sometimes you can take that a little too far and think that everything is equally valid at all times but when you talk about the political climate if people are at the mindset that my perspective is right and everybody who disagrees with me is utterly wrong period as long as people can operate at that level then that kind of conflict is not going to go away anytime soon question though is is it possible for us to Rise Above This sort of dualistic right uh polarization yes yes it is Joanna deangela stresses in for instance the book uh the conscious being that we have the ability within ourselves we have the equipment if you will to improve enough that we are quite capable of developing a much more deeper and sophisticated way of looking at conflict our relationship to conflict and that we are capable of being able to respond one another's points of view when the enlightenment came along and this country was inspired by the enlightenment one of the things our founding fathers were very aware of is of course we weren't going to agree on a lot of things but it was still important that we respect one another in spite of that and it may be a very obvious thing to say but how many people struggle with that m i mean here's a question why have people lost touch with the ability to respect one another even if they have serious disagreements about things I I I think um if I may um and this is more of a an opinion about the this very polarized and uh immersed in Conflict society that we not just a us but really entire world uh is immersed on it's the question of the uh loss of a absolute measure of what's right or wrong so if you think in terms of uh oh I don't know up until um that age of enlightenment God right God was the measure of all things therefore there was this absolute uh um obedience and tolerance to what was the Divine or so described uh with the cartisian thoughts or deart coming in um there is this sense of a shift a strong

ings therefore there was this absolute uh um obedience and tolerance to what was the Divine or so described uh with the cartisian thoughts or deart coming in um there is this sense of a shift a strong shift of uh it's no longer God that is the measure of all things but our thoughts right man is the measure of all things well in this maybe 20 30 years this decade of an incredible uh speed to to a knowledge right to inputs and outputs of anyone uh there's this de really amazing democratization to be able to be the source or the conduit of information man stopped being the measure of all things because the measure itself is gone it's all so relative there is no way to say oh this is right this is wrong well based on what so that really right Peter exacerbate the uh the conflicting notion that uh that we live in is highly highly polarized it's if I in that lower cognitive function of am I right or am I wrong and now we're not GNA get along right but but I think it's important if I may take a little bit uh to a very pragmatic example uh Peter in my world we're talking about my professional World um conflict is actually something that is spoken a lot we go through training right on Conflict Management there actually in the entrepreneurial world there's so much written about conflict out there if you just T you know just write down business conflict there's this list long long list on uh what is conflict how to manage conflict how to resolve conflict uh so on so forth but one of the things that comes to my mind in my world is that conflict is not only good but we should always do everything possible to open up to to monitor those conflicts to manage those conflicts but open up or create opportunities for embracing conflict as defined by that opposing views right um so that we can become so diverse in welcoming people's thoughts inputs that we actually may be stronger not um not uh uh pushing people away but actually it's from the concept of inclusivity everybody is welcome to have their

diverse in welcoming people's thoughts inputs that we actually may be stronger not um not uh uh pushing people away but actually it's from the concept of inclusivity everybody is welcome to have their opinion so it's a very interesting dichotomy in terms of the world of ideas and of course with for instance social media Etc where I can uh be very abrasive in the anonymity of one post somewhere and get followers at Etc in that safety of I'm here uh behind a computer nobody knows who I am where do I live etc etc so you can become very uh instigating of uh opposing views for the sake of that but I wanted to put all this aside and perhaps go back to some of the things that we talk about with uh perhaps um psychology or depth psychology ol transpersonal psychology where uh in psychotherapies we're we're taught that uh is really uh the process of psychotherapy is to keep going into that personal unconscious right and by putting those conflicts that are there up to the surface then we can create a sense of health and well-being and I love love that that idea all of our ills and and lack of well-being can be addressed if we are only able to open up in a way to to bring up not only what is a personal unconscious but the potential Your Shadow right things that we are repressing that we don't want to see we don't want to talk about we are judgmental but it all exists inside of us right well it it takes courage to do all that yes we have to have the courage to face whatever our history has been both and unconscious yes and Joanna de Angela stresses a great deal in stressing reincarnation Joanna de Angela stresses that sometimes the conflicts we have are not only the ones in this life but in Prior incarnations as well so there may be further types of work I'm not talking about past life regression here but but rather um when we think about our deeper nature that it's something that has developed over a long long period of time yes and we have the ability to find ways to to face

life regression here but but rather um when we think about our deeper nature that it's something that has developed over a long long period of time yes and we have the ability to find ways to to face that um speaking of transpersonal psychology one of the people involved in that world who's Ken Wilbur Who you know focuses more on what he calls integr psychology he uses the phrase uh wake up or no grow up and wake up if I recall I think I'm hope I have that right I understand the process of growing up and waking up is growing up would be developing more Consciousness and awareness but then in a transpersonal mode in terms of transpersonal therapy you also have that Awakening from within deeper level of being a a deeper sense of who we are and that requires again the courage to get past our own defenses which our biases right our own personal biases on what is comfortable what's not yes requires flexibility so going back to you know conflict with others and and needing to always be right which is you know basically a form of narcissism um or at a minimum in the egoic driving driven Force right I need to be right because uh the minute I'm not right i'm diminishing my ego construct of who I am suddenly my world is in Jeopardy yes yes why why does our world have to be in Jeopardy if we're wrong about something or maybe not completely right and it's not a question of so and so as completely wrong and the other person's completely right because in terms of conflict resolution process where both people feel like they've been heard and yes they both have to make adjustments to how they see things perhaps uh or at least respect someone else's approach to things in their perspective and Peter pivoting completely that I think uh what you you made me think here is knowing of your artistic background right all right uhuh um you uh probably I'm assuming here you were probably trained to whatever you do in the artistic uh process of artistic development to really uh seek and adopt

rtistic background right all right uhuh um you uh probably I'm assuming here you were probably trained to whatever you do in the artistic uh process of artistic development to really uh seek and adopt feedback right oh yes absolutely right I have long background in theater um I won't go through everything of course but just very quickly uh I started off working backstage which I enjoyed at the time but then I became really interested in writing and play writing the things theater stresses a lot is that it's a collaborative art form so when you're doing a play just to focus on the creation of a play yes it starts with the play right the playright you know develops the story and the characters and does a process of rewriting and whatever research they may do and so forth and they spend a lot of time on the play but then there comes a point where you have to engage actors a director maybe do a reading of a play which is not producing it but just reading the play to see what you have or begin to see what you have when we talk about play development which sometimes is a four-letter word for certain people but when development goes well it means that the playright is flexible enough to listen to the feedback he or she's getting both from the actors the director perhaps and anybody who may be participating it doesn't mean you have to listen to everybody it doesn't mean everybody's point of view is correct the playwright has to be as truthful as he or she can to his or her own Vision but you also maybe somebody will say something that's actually quite useful if a playright is deeply inflexible and controlling then they may not listen to anybody and what happens when we never listen to anybody we don't grow and chances are we also alienate others in the process in new play development sometimes there are times when yeah maybe all the feedback The Writer's getting is not very useful but they have to be open enough to listen to what people are saying and why they're saying it so you really have to get out of your

yeah maybe all the feedback The Writer's getting is not very useful but they have to be open enough to listen to what people are saying and why they're saying it so you really have to get out of your own head and you have to learn not to be defensive and this is such a beautiful exercise right Peter I think we I often wonder why is it so difficult for us to receive feedback or critique from others and it is I often think that it's a question of we haven't been trained in our minds to to to be quote unquote wronged right to be defined as your best oh Marcia your best idea not good enough and um and I think uh uh there are many new uh in in organizational psychology uh field many new Authors that are talking about of this idea of feedback right you have an idea meaning this is your thought and let's look at it as version one of a minimum version of five so you start throw it all the stones that you can throw to just dilapidate uh break down that initial idea and what's uh survives is the good part let's do it again and do it again and I I love that idea or or the the concept of we can think again right we can even uh collaborate with ourselves if we go through this this breakdown of of thoughts into getting better and maybe if it can flip it to us in terms of how we Embrace conflict how hard would it be for us if we think about us as being that uh the little nugget that survived the the the the the really harsh critique and feedback but we we were really becoming not just a a little piece of coal but now we're becoming this diamond this gem that has been really well polished and and take out any extra that it's no longer needed and uh we would see conflict differently right Peter I have several thoughts but let me start with this one by asking you a question because I'm guessing you may know this better than I do in the business world nowadays how much is creativity getting stressed well uh it's a good point right this is my opinion my opinion along uh I I work for a global company right that

better than I do in the business world nowadays how much is creativity getting stressed well uh it's a good point right this is my opinion my opinion along uh I I work for a global company right that uh the the biggest input for it is not capitalization or commercialization is innovation Innovation so yes Innovation right it's even even in the tagline of the company is innovation and you right which which is a really um dichotomy right it's the Innovation and how does it impact you or you as a as a second part of that Innovation and and so when you say creativity good is is really at the Hallmark of the company wants to do but it is a company that is uh over 125 years old right and and and so uh corporate uh over 100 year old very large company uh there's a book that that has a title that I love to quote because it kind of represents that it's a it's a book and I I'm I'm I'm drawing a blank on the author but it's uh uh the title was who said elephants can't dance and it was it was all about uh uh this is a 1990s book about IBM's transformation from think about it right IBM uh every employee was a three-piece striped suit and a very very specific type of culture and it had shifted had to shift into become what it is today a very agile Innovative well- adapted company that you can hardly recognize anymore right from olden days to today and and I think this is uh perhaps uh when you ask about uh corporate Innovation it may be the dancing elephants yeah you can dance but not so so you're a dancer so you you you know what I'm I'm talking about right it's not with all the uh really elaborate all the the the uh things that you can do in the dance floor but it's very slow and the movements are quite perhaps cumbersome but we do it's it's what we put as the the the the process in in from that perspective collaboration and invitation to conflict is at its it it it's hard right right so when you say Innovation the thing that comes to my mind is innovation in its in terms of

s in in from that perspective collaboration and invitation to conflict is at its it it it's hard right right so when you say Innovation the thing that comes to my mind is innovation in its in terms of its connection to creativity it has to do with as you were saying before finding the diamond within the the the rough yeah yeah right that requires flexibility as mentioned before and it requires the willingness to abandon what we might have been doing in the past I mean I don't need to tell you I assume that if you have a corporate culture that's very entrenched well we've been doing it this way for x amount of time and why should we change this kind of thing when people are like that then they're obviously very comfortable in what they've been doing even if the Decay is happening underneath their feet yeah I there's one word I don't want you to I want to interrupt but not interrupt okay the word comes to mind is disruption right true yes true true Innovation is disruptive in its uh in its core right but go ahead well going back to playwriting for instance playwright they any good are should be willing to abandon a whole direction if it really isn't working because the thing about writing a play and I think it's similar to what you've been talking about in terms of Corporations if you're trying to do something Innovative and you're starting at the beginning it's Ground Zero you have no idea where you're going to go when you're doing something from the beginning what dire is it really going to take maybe it goes off in this direction and there's good things about this direction but it would be better if we kind of went over here too it doesn't mean everything fine and you become wishy-washy but it does mean that you have to pay attention to the organic process and allow it to go where it needs to go rather than control it um that's part of it and but just to kind of I don't mean to contradict myself in what I'm about to say but there's it's okay you're G to be conflicting with

here it needs to go rather than control it um that's part of it and but just to kind of I don't mean to contradict myself in what I'm about to say but there's it's okay you're G to be conflicting with yourself but I was thinking the reason I say this is because I was thinking about a quote from Michelangelo yes this is a paraphrase but basically Michelangelo said I see the statue within the Rock and I just have to chip away at it to get there yeah so that kind of creativity could work too where you have some idea where you're going and you just need to allow the process to get there whereas Picasso I believe spoke more about you start a painting and then the painting starts to speak to you so there's this kind of exchange between you and the and the medium that does not imply that he knew exactly where he was going but I'm sure he didn't but you see both approaches can work but it does require the right kind of flexibility to do so yeah that's absolutely amazing shall we go back a little bit to I don't know something that you said and I I think I can go to Freud is saying that suffering is inevitable can we talk a little bit perhaps about this whole angst that comes from the fact that we are not yet in a emotional or psychological maturity that would lead us to live through all of the ABS and flows of inputs and outputs external and inner uh um and internal influences to to a place where we can Master those the turmoil without touching us and because we can't we suffer spiritism in stressing The immor Immortal Spirit basically saying it's not just spiritism but but to focus on spiritism it is stressing that every everything we we need in order to get further along in our spiritual progress it's impossible to do it in a single Lifetime and it also stresses that God has not given us anything that we can't really handle so struggle right if struggle's unavoidable why do we have struggle well do we not learn more deeply when we're directly involved D in overcoming some

not given us anything that we can't really handle so struggle right if struggle's unavoidable why do we have struggle well do we not learn more deeply when we're directly involved D in overcoming some kind of challenge or even just getting through a task if you think about um childhood education I remember hearing it put this way completing the task is a very important lesson if you don't complete a task suppose we go through life avoiding everything that's slightly difficult then we would get in the habit of starting things and then never finishing them is that psychologically healthy right it's not so when we learn to start a task from beginning to completion whatever that completion is again theater is a great world in which you learn that lesson uh among many examples that one could come up with but when you learn how to complete a task like that of course there going to be lots of challenges all kinds of challenges the unexpected will inevitably happen somewhere along the way and when we um like if you're trying to get a production up you know you've got the Play Written you've got the cast you got the directors now you got to get the thing on its feet inevitably something that you didn't foresee is going to happen there's all kinds of logistical challenges and so problem solving is really really key sometimes you can solve a problem fairly easily and other times you're really stumped and you have to figure out how to do it but the more we learn how to problem solve and overcome challenges it develops confidence it gives us a deeper strength that even if we have no idea how we're going to resolve something at the beginning nevertheless have enough faith and reasonable healthy confidence that we able to do so just to change Focus slightly uhhuh we have a distorted ego yes we are developing an unrealistic expectation about what we can and can't do that's not healthy so there's a difference between a healthy ego and an unhealthy ego a healthy ego would be where we can

es we are developing an unrealistic expectation about what we can and can't do that's not healthy so there's a difference between a healthy ego and an unhealthy ego a healthy ego would be where we can resolve a conflict resolve a struggle resolve a challenge even if we're reasonably confident that we can do so even if we're not really sure how at the moment and that and not knowing doesn't terrify us because when we need absolute certainty in everything that's a false security and it could be uh also um that too could be a distorted ego right because if I expect everything to be absolutely secure at all times that means I want the world around me to operate the way I want the world to operate but we know that doesn't happen too often but it doesn't mean though that life is always chaotic and we're always coping with chaos but it is right but it is if you think about it there is a there's a certain amount of chaos that is inherit in the world that we live in yes because when we talk about conflict what one thing haven't talked about is if we think about our individual Journeys what kind of conflicts are we attracting in our lives what things within ourselves that we haven't really resolved do we nevertheless attract which become a problem think about kinds of people we attract the kinds of relationships we attract the kinds of situations we find ourselves in is that completely random and capricious or is it something about us that we've attracted certain situations because I I love that that uh that uh uh we that uh you know that tapestry that we weave just by the way we are and the colors and the design comes through fruition as a as this Chao because it feels like there is no there's no uh Rhyme or Reason but in the end it has this beauty of its own right Peter and it could become less chaotic when we do use Consciousness to go back to Consciousness to understand okay why do I attract the same kind of person again and again and again in my life what is about me that's doing that can I

aotic when we do use Consciousness to go back to Consciousness to understand okay why do I attract the same kind of person again and again and again in my life what is about me that's doing that can I free myself of something that maybe I do need to free myself of so that I don't attract certain types of people who may in this example may be unhealthy you could use this in a positive sense maybe we naturally attract people who are quite good for us which is great but what are we doing internally that yeah so so let's start to to to get to the same point right why do we attract uh either the type of individuals or or the same type of uh issues or conflicts in our lives that we can see that pattern of behavior right and if we think in terms of some of the earlier discussion uh today from Joanna deangeles specifically in the book that you referen the conscious being right and we can see that join d'angeles states that uh uh this is not her but this is going to be me pretending to be join and d'angeles by God go right my gosh difficulties yeah my golly the difficulties and obstacles are actually quite stimulating to you right they bring you challenges and if you remove those challenges out you will be bored you will settle you will just be and end in a in a state of uh uh depress or disillusionment and and and from that perspective we can see that from all that we talked about especially when we talked about uh for example in the Arts and how this this feedback collection and collaborative approach which is that approach of a diverse um Viewpoint of the material uh we we start to see that conflicts are quite important to us mentally and emotionally though Peter those challenges really start to become an integral part of those development right uh both mental and emotional they become part of how the structures are solidified and it helps us Define our role in the social group right so I'm even thinking let's say now an example out of the blue uh there is a tsunami or

l they become part of how the structures are solidified and it helps us Define our role in the social group right so I'm even thinking let's say now an example out of the blue uh there is a tsunami or something catastrophic in nature and uh which creates a a a challenge right it it really is stressing that community and yet out of it not only you learn from it but there's something quite precious which is the notion of solidarity right where you start to see fraternity and love and solidarity within the community and you start to see how the individual and the community both grow from that uh conflict but when we we talked about health right health and well-being um and this is for you to to to kind of come to a conclusion are we in the normal for us would be that we're healthy and well-being individuals right uh even with those uh um um conflicts because we should be able at some point to navigate with all of those things that are thrown at us in in a way that it's just it's just another day uh uh one comes and you have your little uh superhero Shield that Shields from the it doesn't touch you because you are so emotionally mature that you can deal with it can you talk a little bit about it well if you go back to the example of what you were saying suppose you had a a tsunami or some kind of dist community and let's say this is a community we've been in for a long time we're used to the structure of that Community we're used to the daily routines of that Community we've become very very very very comfortable in the routines of Our Lives within that community and then all Boom the community infrastructure gets destroyed yes only the infrastructure God forbid maybe people were killed in it as well but whatever happens it is an obvious Interruption going back to the subject of disruption but in this case a very profound one but what has really changed okay the external has just changed and it affects the internal it would be normal for people to be in shock but as you were

disruption but in this case a very profound one but what has really changed okay the external has just changed and it affects the internal it would be normal for people to be in shock but as you were saying it also is a opportunity to for people to come together if they're able to if they have a natural instinct to be compassionate charitable to begin with that people are just all very self fish then things could go arai very quickly yeah when people do come together and of course it's a wonderful thing and a beautiful thing when that happens it demonstrates that enough people are not so devastated by their attachment to the external I see construct if you will that they can't adapt so yeah the community got destroyed we have to rebuild and it's going to take a while and it's going to be a lot of work but we will do it yeah and will not be the same you know I was just thinking um I I grew up in in the San Francisco Bay area and I remember very much when I lived there it was the center of the universe for me right yeah my brother and I like to joke about that sort area of narcissism but that's not my point here my point is this the neighborhood I grew up in which I really enjoyed a great deal and I had a lot of strong emotional attachments to him and I left that area when I was a teenager by the time I was 30 or so it that whole area pretty much burned to the ground including the place I grew up in which my father sorry to hear that yeah and also a house up the street that my father they're built both long gone so literally the only thing that I have of that is my memories and I happen to have a lot of photographs too which is nice but if if if any of us are overly attached to a particular environment like that then we're acting as though life isn't fluid and life doesn't change and and to make a very basic fundamental point you know we know that the material is temporary well we do know it and maybe we don't know it but in terms of overcoming conflict a big one which gets

ge and and to make a very basic fundamental point you know we know that the material is temporary well we do know it and maybe we don't know it but in terms of overcoming conflict a big one which gets stressed in spiritism it gets stressed in Buddhism among other sources um is to understand that everything that's material is simply on loan to us from God so to speak and much as we like it and as you much as we can learn from it it's not something to be ashamed of but it won't stay with us forever so can we adapt and move on as needed which again goes back to what you were saying before about in a corporate environment if you're working on a new project and you're you're kind of pulling from different resources taking what's good and getting rid of the rest um again you have to be internally open enough flexible enough and have the confidence and faith enough that whatever the product is it'll be fine yeah you no I just H as you saying this uh and we're approaching the end of our time talking together Peter but what came to my mind was uh Joseph Campbell's uh several books but the the hero's journey where he brings that uh that concept right or the archetype of the hero in in his journey and uh and the hero requires to be a hero just extreme adaptability like you said and in Courage and patience and and and tolerance tolerance to all that comes his or her way and and from that perspective the Hero Journey is a metaphor to this invitation and I think this is an invitation that we can use with this um discussion today this invitation to to look at ourselves right to to Embark in this inner Journey so that we can like the transpersonal or depth psychology uh therapeutical process which is bring about everything that is out there in this journey to confront ourselves and by bringing up to the surface we can then truly start looking navigating those conflicts but absolutely Transforming Our sense of uh health and well-being and transforming as well our ability to understand why we

up to the surface we can then truly start looking navigating those conflicts but absolutely Transforming Our sense of uh health and well-being and transforming as well our ability to understand why we behave a certain way why do sometimes we are uh the the the perpetrator of extreme pain and conflict ridden type of situations right but it's uh this invitation for all of us to to have the courage to embark on uh our own hero's journey right and in his book The Hero Of A Thousand Faces cble stress that one of the common themes or threads of the hero's journey is to want to refuse the journey yes and and it's an acknowledgment that it's okay to be fearful of certain things or to not feel that we're equipped for it but then part of the hero's journey is I think you were just saying is yeah to have the courage to get through it and be able overcome right the the proverbial David and Goliath being David So Young so small and and not a warrior and having the Ingenuity to to overcome the and and that to me is a great uh passage biblical passage because it it kind of makes it easy for us to understand we are often David and uh it's it's a it's a it it takes strength but Ingenuity adaptability courage courage courage but it's the invitation for all of us to become the heroes of our own Journey but uh yeah well I know you guys sometimes like to quote movies Indiana Jones the first one yes yeah funniest moments in that movie I think is where you know Indiana's doing this and doing that and overcoming this moment that moment and I forget to who but he says okay now we're going to do this and this and that and then the person says and then what you go goes I don't know I'm just making I go along I love it I love it right so hero's journey right is you have to be in the moment and mentioned me doing dancing I do ballroom dancing that's exactly how it should be when it goes well is yeah you learn the choreography yeah you work on the technique but if things are going right you just forget

me doing dancing I do ballroom dancing that's exactly how it should be when it goes well is yeah you learn the choreography yeah you work on the technique but if things are going right you just forget all that get out of your head and just flow from one moment to the next Oh what a beautiful thing to say as we we close on our episode today let us all be in the moment and be not just resilient to conflict but welcome conflicts as the hero in our own Journey thank you so much Peter thank you for for for being here with us today I appreciate everyone and uh hope all of us have have a wonderful time thank you everyone thank you it's been a pleasure to be here