Ep 144 - Why We Chose Our Families: The Hidden Curriculum of Life

Hi everyone, welcome back. Welcome Ann Sinclair. So good to have you and all of you who are here with us in this uh new episode of psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life. We are here together, me Marciao and Ann Stinclair. And we're coming from two different countries, right? And she is in the UK, I'm in the US. And we'll be diving into a theme that uh deeply touches most of us, right? Why why do we choose our families? What is what is behind all of that? So before going in uh to to do this and how are you doing? I'm doing just great, Rosio. How about yourself? >> I am well. Thank you. Thank you. So, and I am just so so inspired by Joanna Deangel's writings, right? There's in many different of her books, but the topic of family and uh so I'm here proposing to you for us to explore the central theme of being inserted in a given family. Why is that? What is that uh that if you will um universal social agenda of families and why why is our family what it is? And uh um if we keep on thinking about an Ann um just to to bring forth some of her words, Joanna tells us that the family is not this only this social arrangement, right? She brings in her words family as a sanctuary, right? So there is this notion of sacredness of uh of a divine ground right but she goes it's a sanctuary and a permanent training ground for the spirit spirit for all of us here meaning all of us as immortal souls. But uh if I go back to Yung just to to pepper to season a little bit with with some some uh additional flavor into the discussion. Jung um he says that family is also the first stage where the unconscious is projected and mirrored. Right? So it's it's that the ground floor the the the the beginning. So it's the first stage where our unconscious is projected and mirrored. And so he continues to to tell something about that is a living classroom where we meet ourselves and I love this. We meet ourselves through the other family members. H. So every right so every relationship

he continues to to tell something about that is a living classroom where we meet ourselves and I love this. We meet ourselves through the other family members. H. So every right so every relationship at home and we're not going to be nostalgic or even uh idealistic, right? Every relation at home ranges from very small to quite longterm enduring conflicts to tenderness to caring. And that's in that sense that Jung saying those relationships right that the very kaleidoscope of of emotional expressions they become a mirror for our inner world. So from that perspective, it becomes this lesson plan. Uh and I'm being figurative here of course, a lesson plan for for us created through the light and the incredible knowledge of divine love. Right? So it is almost like we have our own private school customized to what we need. Even though we're not alone, it is embedded in a a group of individuals. um right from infasy to to death quite frankly, but they're there and those relationships are really critical for us to to to unhinge or bloom in a in a more beautiful way to say it, right? Um all the talents that we have within all the areas that we we still need to learn. So I'm going to ask us to start our our discussion today our conversation end with a question why Ed why do we come back we reincarnate in this current life in the families that we do what are your thoughts >> you know it's it's not uncommon to hear people say I ended up in the wrong family you know this is You hear that as a and even as a child you might have wished that you were in a different family. You're thinking your family is not meeting your needs whatever they are or whether they're financial or or emotional or cultural or intellectual and you look over to your friends family and you think oh I would be much better off in that family. And I I always joke and I say because you know I work in in in char and I say the stork never drops the baby at the wrong address. >> I love it. >> All babies come into the right place

in that family. And I I always joke and I say because you know I work in in in char and I say the stork never drops the baby at the wrong address. >> I love it. >> All babies come into the right place even if they come in through adoption or or different arrangements everybody ends up in the right place. But I would like to refer to something that Joanna says because I think this this reflects it exactly >> and it says that the family is the workshop where we will develop our ability h our feelings our emotions giving it different directions and saying that we don't live in what we think is our ideal family >> in the one that we wished we lived. D because we need to be in the group that has best conditions to offer us for what we need for our evolution. >> Yeah. >> So it so that brings us to the issue is like what do I need for my evolution? >> And this is where we come to this whole journey of psychology is >> you know who am I? What do I need? Do I know myself? Because we are very accustomed in this in our society to be looking at the material aspects. >> The materialism of our society. But we forget our spiritual side which is what is forever. Our spirit survives goes on. Everything that is material is transformed including our bodies. But the relationships that go molding us, helping us like you say to awaken those uh dormant seeds that we have for greater uh feelings that carries on with us to the next one and so on. So it's really important to think in terms of evolution of reincarnation of a step by step of development and that I really like what you were saying about Jung because that is one of the things that Joanna says as well. >> Yeah. >> When you come into the family and you're all about oh my brother this, my sister the other, my my dad this, my mom the but the issue is not them. The issue is you. >> Yeah. So why does what they do upset you? So why does the way they behave cause you such reaction? And so that is the self-nowledge. Obviously when you're a child you don't

them. The issue is you. >> Yeah. So why does what they do upset you? So why does the way they behave cause you such reaction? And so that is the self-nowledge. Obviously when you're a child you don't have that self-nowledge but you have the experience that then you can relate to. >> Yeah. >> And say oh when that person spoke to me in that way it upset me. I didn't like it. Okay. So when you >> it takes maturity right? It takes that maturity to to to see that. Yeah. >> So when you grow up and then you go on to make, you know, establish your own family, perhaps have your own relationships, your own children, how are you going to communicate with them? Is it the same way that your parents communicated with you that you didn't like? >> Yeah. >> Or are you going to choose to do things differently? I tell you if you do nothing you repeat exactly what happened before because that is the automatic pilot if you like the automatic >> it's the imprint if you will I love what you said the automatic pilot but that sentence is is quite uh uh striking if you choose to do nothing you do the same right >> exactly so as we grow you know from childhood into adulthood and then we have the opportunity to create our own nuclear family, immediate family. We need to be uh maturing and thinking not to be carry on. Oh, I'm upset because that wasn't good for me in my childhood and now I'm, you know, this hurts me because that's me me. You say, okay, so that didn't work for me as a child. What might how might I do this differently? So, those are the seeds that you can make flourish come up to. You have to be creative. You have to be courageous because I say courageous because to do something different than what those who came before did you need courage. >> Yeah. >> Because the tendency of the group wants you to carry on doing the same because that makes that feeling of belonging that we this is what our people do and so we always do it the same. >> So you say no I'm going to do this differently. Then the rest of the group

the same because that makes that feeling of belonging that we this is what our people do and so we always do it the same. >> So you say no I'm going to do this differently. Then the rest of the group will go why are you excluding us or something like that. So you need to be brave and have that courage of trying something different. Doesn't mean that what you're going to do is going to work but you need to try because how do we learn? By trial and error. >> And when we the error is not a failure it's learning that if I did it this way this is what happened. And that's experience. an experience helps us to mature to grow and think okay let me then if I did it that way I got that let me try something different this time >> and so on and then life becomes so much more interesting >> because we're not prisoners >> to our outbreaking anymore we're not prisoners to the way things were done before but we are allowed to to be creative and uh I think that um of course there are restrictions depending where you live and culture, society, the times and all those things, but there is still an element of some freedom there. And sometimes when you know you're growing up in a family and you're not happy there and you can't wait till you're 18 and off you go and you reject everything that was there. >> It was me. It's like >> I can't I can't wait to leave. And what happens is that and that's fair enough. You feel like so oppressed that that's all you can do. Then you go off. But you you're going to need to readress this at some point. You can't escape from yourself. And all those experiences come with yourself. >> Yeah. >> And like I say, when it comes to your time to make a family, all this is going to come up again. And uh rather than this being something that again oppresses you, it could be something okay I've seen now how it's difficult and let me see you know how I can do things in a slightly different way. But one of the things that also is saying who are these spirits this group who make up our family? These

now how it's difficult and let me see you know how I can do things in a slightly different way. But one of the things that also is saying who are these spirits this group who make up our family? These are not just random spirits. >> Yeah. >> These are our family and we keep coming back with one another. This is this is the bigger group, the spiritual group and we we can take a break and go and have a life in some other family sometimes because it might be useful uh to to learn something somewhere else but we are our connection does not end at death. Our connection carries on because it's a spiritual connection and we come back and we alterate positions. So the person that was my mom in this incarnation in the next one might be my child. >> We change positions. >> Yeah. >> Or might be my sibling. >> Yeah. >> Or my brother or my father. >> And so we are learning to respect all spirits to understand that our positions in the family have their own learning opportunities. >> Yeah. But mainly is to look at those those situations or the things what is it that we don't like because if that is proddding us there is something there for us. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and and here you >> well that's a that's a defense mechanism right? I if I knew all all my errors, all my faults, all my imperfections, I may just go into this, you know, just crawl into my room and never get out because they will uh be too much for me to to see. So defense mechanism, it's all your fault. But then that's quite you know childish to to to to stay stuck in that looking at others as the as the source of everything that's wrong. Um can I ask you something because you're you're you're speaking quite interesting um about uh coming back right and and the roles may be changed if uh if today I'm a mother uh tomorrow I may come back in the same groupings of people and I may be the child and it's a different lesson that I learn but I was wondering um and what are your thoughts or what do you believe are the karmic or emotional

ack in the same groupings of people and I may be the child and it's a different lesson that I learn but I was wondering um and what are your thoughts or what do you believe are the karmic or emotional lessons that uh our current family situations be offering us, right? If we're thinking those terms because from a spiritist uh spiritual point of view, right? uh um if a family as it's constituted is chosen for me, me as an immortal soul, I I'm there because I need to learn very specific lessons, right? each one each I'm not going to say conflict but I'm going to say challenge or each limitation within the given family unit and those limitations I think you you already alluded to that can be soio economic uh environment or it could be language or um I don't know a uh some some disability or some quirks mental or physical disabilities at that right. But each challenge or limitation in the family um should according to spiritism reflect an area where my spirit and individually and collectively all the members of that that family need to to grow. Right? So, I just wanted to to maybe can talk about that area of all those friction points or um those things that just we going against one another, but they're actually very positive because they're there to reveal uh either an inner wound or an unresolved emotional pattern that must be healed. and it hasn't yet been addressed before. Therefore, you plopped into this family constitution, right? This groupings of people so that it can you can see it and you can start to heal. What what are your thoughts from from that perspective? >> Yeah, I I think that you are so right, Marcia. I think when when we start to to study spiritism and also like the Janna Gangelist, we start to look at our lives differently. >> Yeah. >> And we start to look at our relationships differently and the the the first relationship we have is the relationship with our family, >> our parents, with our siblings and so on. And what Shana says is that we are

to look at our relationships differently and the the the first relationship we have is the relationship with our family, >> our parents, with our siblings and so on. And what Shana says is that we are on a pathway of evolution and they say we have these seeds to awaken. One of the seeds that we have to awaken is the seed of love. The seed of love uh begins if you like in an instinctive form like in the the the the instinct that the mother has to look after the baby just like the animals have an instinct to look after their their babies. The human mom also has an instinct to look after their babies. And this instinct is like the let's say the almost the beginning of a future love which will be a a sentiment which will be so much bigger and that will have so many different angles and that will lead all the way back to God to God's love. But we have the opportunity to experience love h to start to develop our ability to love one another because we are we have bonds with these our rel with our relatives. We have genetic bonds. We have emotional bonds. We are under the same roof. We share the meals. We share the beds. We share the the difficulties. As a family we face things together. Uh and that is a very sort of intimate situation where she suggests that we need to start to exercise and to learn to love our neighbor inside our family. >> Yes. Yes. >> As our siblings, as as our parents. So those are our neighbors that Jesus talks about that we start with not wanting. She said if you can't love those who are in the same household that you go through your dayto day and you have your breakfast, your lunch, your dinner, you watch TV together, you you know you're spending all this time and you you can't tolerate or you can't you know find a way to develop love and compassion for that person. How do you expect to develop love and compassion for someone you don't even know? So she said it is really it's not that it's going to be like oh it's easy. It's because it's new. It's new for us

son. How do you expect to develop love and compassion for someone you don't even know? So she said it is really it's not that it's going to be like oh it's easy. It's because it's new. It's new for us >> as human beings. We are still at the beginning of our development because we have high technology and all our mobile phones and all this. We think we are woo we are very clever and yeah materially we've moved ahead a lot >> but emotionally we are still at the beginning of our development. So then we need to have compassion for ourselves as well and not beat ourselves up because we can't do it or or so we go looking for for ways to try to understand one another to tolerate one another to see the quality that the other one has that I still don't have which might make me jealous because they can do it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. recognize I feel jealous because and then instead of you know being angry I can be like celebrating that so oh that's lovely you can do this I too will do this one day >> I too can achieve this and you just start changing that that very primitive very competitive kind of attitude to thinking like how does love develop but love does develop in the family and this constant exposure to the strength strengths and weaknesses of one another helps us to grow as well. H and slowly but surely if we can learn to love those who are in the in our home then we can learn to love the other ones in society as well. And like says we run away from the family where we were inserted to begin with and then we set up our own family. Yeah. >> But our experience of love is very limited. >> Yeah. So the relationships in the partnership between let's say the married uh persons can be very difficult because said usually it's just sexual attraction. >> Yeah. >> There's no true love. It's just that spark and once that wears off where do you go because the exercise of learning to love another person is the same one that was introduced back in the home. >> Yeah. And it's it's it makes it really

at spark and once that wears off where do you go because the exercise of learning to love another person is the same one that was introduced back in the home. >> Yeah. And it's it's it makes it really interesting because then as if you get to my age, you know, and you're being a grandparent. >> Yes. >> Oh my gosh, all these missed opportunities. >> Yes. Isn't it funny how how it goes? And I and I think um uh maybe you want to talk a little bit about uh as as we close the s circle and that circle may be our childhood uh our uh adolescent ears and early adulthood. Circle one, right? And then we get to the next one which is true adulthood which most of us may have not everybody but most of us will have a a a child a family to raise and that family today has been more with dogs and and and pets than than children. I recognize that. But it is love, right? You you're you're raising you're taking care of another being. But then let's say it is a child and the second um circle is is closed and you start the third one which is um as you mentioned the ability to now look at um from a different eye. No longer as you said I I I this is what I learn in the the circle one and I I I have my judgment good or bad etc. the circle too. I may or may not, but let's pretend I may try to address the the gaps and ineptitudes, all the things that I found was wrong in my first one. But then the third one, you start to reignify the whole thing, right? Not only uh our judgment perhaps, but also like you said, the missed opportunities, but I'd love to hear more from from your experience or your thought processes on that. Yeah, I think that one of the things that as as we stop and we start reflecting and looking back uh is um what says is to allow the other to be who they are >> and not to project our expectations on them. They are who they are and whichever way they present to us that is the lesson that they share with us for that moment. So sometimes we might have let's say we might be upset with with our parents

hem. They are who they are and whichever way they present to us that is the lesson that they share with us for that moment. So sometimes we might have let's say we might be upset with with our parents because we think you know we were not happy as children in whatever way things were brought up but we need to think that life goes on and these relationships don't disappear. So even if they've already passed to the spiritual world, we can in thought in prayers say okay um not ideal um there were lots of difficulties but I am thankful I am grateful for the opportunity they gave me for this life for here I am >> and that already is a big blessing a big gift and to look at the gifts rather than the faults >> and say if they didn't do better it's because They couldn't because if they could, they would. We can't be more evolved than we are. We can pretend in society to be better than we are. But the reality of day-to-day life, it all comes out. It all is revealed. And in the same way that we see them as they truly are, they also see us as we truly are. Well, we got, you know, even to work and things, we put on our nice clothes and our smile and we are so polite and everything's everything's good. But nobody knows the monsters that go around inside us. >> They come out at home. We relax and they come and you know all our impatience, all our all our difficulties, they present themselves. So is is like she talks about diluting resentment, anger and finding forgiveness, acceptance and thinking that she says about the most troublesome member of our family that really annoys us most or or like causes us much. She said you need to think about them. They are a sick brother or sister. >> Yeah. >> They're sick. They're not well. and to think they're not like judging them. They say, "Well, obviously you're not going to put yourself in harm's way, but you can use the power of prayer to extend." But by the power of prayer, you change your heart. So, you stop harboring animosity, anger, frustration.

you're not going to put yourself in harm's way, but you can use the power of prayer to extend." But by the power of prayer, you change your heart. So, you stop harboring animosity, anger, frustration. Why don't they do this? Why don't Why don't But they do what they can do. That's that's for them. It's not for you. You need to come into your place of power which is the love the seeds of love that you have and to see them these are eternal spirits like all of us and they are going through a difficult moment and they will have to uh struggle through it as well. But if we can shower them with love maybe that will >> help them but it will help us more first. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Love help the best thing of love is if we love. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because we are immersed in the vibration of love >> to be loved. Yeah. Devaldo always used to say this to be loved by others. Oh, it's very nice. >> But that's not the objective. The objective is for us to be the source of love. And that takes maturity, growing up, developing. And it doesn't happen in one incarnation. So then we can start to see okay that the things that we thought were punishments, karma, bad luck, whatever. No, there there are workshops, opportunities, lessons that changes everything. >> Yeah, >> that could change everything. >> No, it it does. It it's really shifting the the paradigm of how we even see ourselves. Um just the other day, a couple episodes ago, I was um discussing a very interesting movie um Freedom Writers. I don't know if you've seen it, and it's uh uh 2007 uh movie based on a true story that um led to the publication of a book called Freedom Writers. And those writers, writers uh were all um adolescents or teens at risk in the school that this very young teacher uh start teaching right after the uh riots in LA in 1992, right? But what's so interesting about uh that movie and we talked a little about in the episode I'm bringing up here for a reason is the fact that uh um there were people coming from very

LA in 1992, right? But what's so interesting about uh that movie and we talked a little about in the episode I'm bringing up here for a reason is the fact that uh um there were people coming from very different um ethnic backgrounds and and there was this you know gang urban violence but gang violence they're barely surviving an right they're all teenagers and they're put in one classroom together, but there is this turf wars and everyone is the other. I think you you talked really well the families where we learn to love the other. And in this classroom, they're just some trauma from uh not so far away war zones and they uh were exiled into the US. So the Cambodians for example uh some of them African-Americans that went through a lot of uh social economic or racial etc um uh impacts in their lives and and many others. So they just kept into their groups and the the you know the the amazing thing that this very young teacher did was she brought them together through compassion through listening to them but also having room for them to be themselves. So when uh when you mentioned um earlier that uh it is this this workshop for our souls family is where we see the other the family member as they are right in all their vulnerabilities. uh what makes them sick perhaps you mentioned right look at the other who is a pain oh I can't take care I can't deal with this anymore that other my brother my sister my cousin etc they are sick so when you are able to see the other truly as someone very close to you everything changes that paradigm is shifted so I I I really appreciate you you you talking about it. Um just as a by the way um we mentioned Jung earlier but Jung um he he does talk about that uh uh family those situations of uh conflict it's when our shadow is activated right the those unconscious parts of ourselves. So it's very interesting that uh we we should look all of us you me uh and all of us here today we should really look uh now back to your words and as as you're talking

unconscious parts of ourselves. So it's very interesting that uh we we should look all of us you me uh and all of us here today we should really look uh now back to your words and as as you're talking about being a you know in the grandmother stage of your life but let's look at it not as missed opportunity but as a refreshing new opportunity to perhaps highlight those um I don't know unprocessed emotions right all that my tendencies that I've inherited I bring with me in this new life what is what is it that I need to to integrate in in in this life in my personality what do I need to transform um and maybe um as we are proceeding in that line of thought uh and we maybe reflect upon all of us here maybe reflect upon the fact that if we're going through repeated right difficulties or different example if we go through repeated emotional triggers in in in this family and they're really intense to me let's pause right let's pause and say what is Is it that that circumstance, that challenge, that conflict, that uh emotional pain is telling me that I need to pay attention, right? I I I love this. Um >> Yeah. And I just got said that's so important because it's part of that process of self-nowledge. >> Yes. >> Sometimes we bring wounds from far back. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's >> not from this lifetime. We sometimes bring wounds from previous lifetimes. So we don't understand uh so we just react to to what's happening and accuse the other when actually saying why is this why is this hurting me so much? >> We we we react to the pain. Right. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And the the what is the pain but not the why the pain. Why is this? Yeah. Yeah. >> The root of it. and and uh and Janna when she talks about the causes of suffering in her book planitude and all that she she's always saying >> unless we find the roots >> of our suffering it's it's like it's like a you know a tumor you just cut it out but you haven't found the primary tumor it's it's going to come back >> yes >> and so we it's an opportunity for self-nowledge

suffering it's it's like it's like a you know a tumor you just cut it out but you haven't found the primary tumor it's it's going to come back >> yes >> and so we it's an opportunity for self-nowledge thinking going deeper and say okay I have a wound here and Thank you for showing it to me kind of scenario because now is the opportunity to heal it and if you need to go to therapy, you go to therapy or if you need to whatever uh pathway you need for your healing, you follow that. >> But that alert to it was brought to you in the safety of the home perhaps. >> There you go. There you go. in the place that uh we should expect that I can fail because this is where I'm going to learn to to not fail so much or not so frequently or not so bad, right? >> Yeah. No, and this is exactly one of the things that Joanna was saying is like in the home we learn the tools that we will need for the world outside. So I spoke of love before but also things like our negotiating power, our empathy, our tolerance, our ability to see uh our neighbors pain and to give them the space that they need. We've learned that at home and then we take it to the life outside to our friends outside the home to our workplace to our new relationships. But if we haven't learned that at home, we hadn't had that experience, we might come out more immature. But just something that came to my mind that I think we have a little bit of time yet. >> You know something, Marcia, that that is is quite topical. It's about Okay, we're talking about the family and how we are learning in the family. And when you think in the past I talked about having our meals together, having breakfast together and lunch together and dinner together where those conversations could take place. >> Yeah. >> That interaction could take place. That interaction that helped each other to get to know themselves and and also to identify things in others. But nowadays when families everybody eats at a different time or they're on their phones or on their tablet even you see

each other to get to know themselves and and also to identify things in others. But nowadays when families everybody eats at a different time or they're on their phones or on their tablet even you see kids in the high chair little kids and they put a tablet to keep them quiet. >> Yeah. >> And watch them. So that exercise of daily conversation. How's the day? What happened? Oh, my boss really annoyed me or this person in the bus took the seat and I was so >> you know what are the things that are causing you headaches and then as a conversation as a family we can break it down and say okay when that happens again maybe you know we could try something different oh yeah that's a good idea thank you like >> so we we're helping each other as a group >> because the family is a collaboration >> just like animals work groups family groups >> and teaching survival. So if you've learned to find food in one way, you teach it to your family, you know, and and go on like that. You have groups of animals who learn things and then they they keep it. It's an advantage for them. >> We started off like that. >> But if our family is um fallen apart, although we still still have one roof, but we don't talk to each other anymore. We don't interact. We don't ask how was your day? What happened? What made you happy? What >> we are missing out on this wonderful opportunity of development and I think there is an issue with with electronics nowadays with timets with very busy schedules and we need to have a look at our own families and seeing okay you know is this is this working well or do we need to adjust something? Yeah, but um we I think number one um it's the structure of our lives that have shifted, right? We have so much more time because technology provided less time doing menial tasks >> but uh we work harder at least that's my experience here in the US and we work so much we it's very difficult to have time off to do things to enjoy to to just be and and there is this this trigger uh

but uh we work harder at least that's my experience here in the US and we work so much we it's very difficult to have time off to do things to enjoy to to just be and and there is this this trigger uh almost guilty feelings that if I am not producing, I'm idle. But then comes social media and and we're so tired that the the the act of meaningless scrolling actually provides me perhaps a a needed rest because I'm on the go. But one of the things that uh is very interesting Joanna Deandrew brings us so many tools uh and I think you're you're going that way right to talk about the tools and the tools include you already mentioned prayer but the tools may mean silence right how novel is the idea that we should create the moment for silence and and And and in that silence create a moment to invite ourselves in to to see who we really are to to understand the the the good, the bad and the ugly, right? All the things that are nourishing our soul or the things that I'm doing that perhaps not so much and what are the things are deviating me from my path, for my desires, my needs, my wants. I want to tell you uh you you mentioned a meals together and uh I was brought up in that right. We had three meals together and it was very formal and uh we could not deviate. So as young children we would and this is through schools because um where I grew up schools ended in time for you to have lunch with your parents, right? So we're all be there waiting for my parents to come home so that we could sit down and have lunch for example. So those are very uh indelible memories of mine. But uh now that we don't uh I I'm thinking and this is a silly thing to think so you uh don't judge me but uh a lot of uh professional corporate uh world is uh really seeing the power number one of diversity, diverse thought processes to to deal with a a given problem and number two um the idea that collaboration should be not just happen stance. Oh, we're together, we work together, we collaborate. No, really

rse thought processes to to deal with a a given problem and number two um the idea that collaboration should be not just happen stance. Oh, we're together, we work together, we collaborate. No, really take the time to collaborate. So, one of the tools that I've been able to exercise through work and and you made me think of it is what it they call daily management. What is a daily management? 15 minutes. That's all it takes where you come together as a team and it can be as small as let's say five people and as large as 200 and you look at how we're doing. So for us to know how we're doing we need to have our compass in terms of corporate world would be a key uh performance indicator whatever that is are we fitting meeting our targets are surpassing are we're you know but for us what is that target and the target may be our items from our moral compass right it have we been uh you mentioned patience tolerant Uh it can even be resilience. It can be gratitude, right? Or um being gentle with the other, being whatever. There's so many qualities, human qualities that we still need to to work. And if we bring 15 minutes of our time to work within whatever the group may be that we're inserted as our spiritual or material family and let's look how am I doing today oh we didn't do our target why not and together brainstorm a solution and uh I I I I think I'm going to practice that a daily management in my own family. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that collaborative nature of the family. Um, and we are getting to the end of our time together. Are there any additional thoughts that you would like to bring before we close? Yeah, I mean Angel is just um talks about like um just mentioning the the the threat to the family structure and all these and uh before we started the show we were talking about we need to look at at our evolution. >> Yeah, >> evolution is always ongoing. So even the institution of the family which when when I was growing up could be a very authoritarian model and um which uh a

need to look at at our evolution. >> Yeah, >> evolution is always ongoing. So even the institution of the family which when when I was growing up could be a very authoritarian model and um which uh a lot of young people reacted against and including me and so on. But it's like like you're talking about reinventing your work tool in your family. >> It's also the family is dynamic and it is not about those rules of like you know You can talk, you can't talk or or or who's the boss. But it's about we are a group of spirits. >> Yeah. >> That are coming together. We have been together for a long time. We know each other. We know each other's secrets. And that's why sometimes we are uncomfortable with one another. But we are destined to learn. And it is by having the opportunity of being together through the different lives that we develop. And as we develop and we become a happy family, a nurturing family, we can then start to encompass the rest of humanity as a family as well. >> Yeah. >> And then we grow into having a society that reflects our families. >> Yeah. >> Because the society is chaotic today. It's because it reflects the chaos in the families. >> I I agree with that wholeheartedly. It's just a representation of this is where we at. >> Yeah. >> And it's not I don't go like bad or good. This is the reality. We are still very young. >> Disorganized. Disorganized as a as a >> disorganized. Yeah. But are we better today than we were 500 years ago? Yes. Are we better today than we were a thousand years ago? Yes. Because evolution goes in one direction. It's always forwards and upwards. So we can be optimistic, we can be creative and we can transform our family experiences so that we go in our inner journey to discover ourselves more to understand ourselves more and as we understand ourselves we can understand the other. >> Yeah. >> Because we can see that they too have the same difficulties that we have when we can acknowledge our own issues and then it's very optimistic for me. Yeah.

ves we can understand the other. >> Yeah. >> Because we can see that they too have the same difficulties that we have when we can acknowledge our own issues and then it's very optimistic for me. Yeah. >> And uh we we move we move forward little by little. >> Yeah. I love it. I love what you said. So let us all move forward. I I do believe that uh um the amazing opportunity to live in a family, right? Is that opportunity to be able to learn to study and learn the art and science of love. We're not there yet, right? Each each time we come, we refine our uh learnings maybe and one day we get to a postdoalate degree in love. We are still in kindergarten at this point. But it is a a a classroom, a curriculum that no spirit, not a single one can skip, right? We all have to learn it. We in in from that perspective it is the home is the the the the right classroom that uh we have the nuggets of issues and and conflicts etc etc but it's where we are in the perfect environment to to learn to coexist to forgive but also to care to serve the other and we do that in different uh roles. as a child, as a sibling, as a parent, grandparent, so on so forth. But uh Joanna tells us that whoever is incapable of loving those with whom they live will find it even harder to love those that you don't know. So, let's look at at home as this rehearsal for the ultimate um play of life where we're going to be able to do those roles quite well. But I wanted to thank you, Ann. I really appreciate you being here. I welcome uh all of you who are here today as well. Um and uh and this has been a great time together. But if this is the first time that you're listening to this program, please uh be reminded the that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are indeed based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus and um it is a way for us to better understand life, psychology, elements of psychology, but also elements of spirituality that will help us be better, feel better, grow better. Um, I want to thank our

nd um it is a way for us to better understand life, psychology, elements of psychology, but also elements of spirituality that will help us be better, feel better, grow better. Um, I want to thank our sponsors, Mono Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, and I'm in Brazil, the Brazilian arm of that uh, international organization, the Medical Spiritist Association. With that, thank you so very much, and we'll talk again in a future episode. Bye everyone. Thank you.