Ep 147 - Healing the Family Spirit: From Conflicts to Connection

Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Psychology and Spirituality, a bridge to a better life. I'm your host Marcia Trojanu and today I'm joined by the program founder and co-host Jos Corn Goat. Jos, it is so great to have you with us today. How you doing? >> I'm doing okay. Hi everyone. It's [laughter] good to be back for another program, another p podcast with you Marcia. >> Oh wonderful. And just our [clears throat] few episodes or specifically our last episode has been dedicated to um discussions on the dynamics of love of communication in the family. Right? So we talked a little bit about education. We talked a little bit of uh all that makes that family unit work. And today I actually want us to do something a little bit different which is to uh dive with you into this notion and I'm going to use Jonah D'Angelus um term right she calls family disturbances in one of her books which means let's talk about the conflicts right we we all are belong to a family at at a minimum we have a mom right at a min minimum. But we all have different types of families and inevitably we face conflicts um misunderstandings and even some uh level of tension that can if not dealt properly, right, can shake the foundations of that home. And uh I just wanted to to see if we can talk about it and I wanted to do before we start properly uh with a reflection right u just and everyone who's here with us let's all think about it how often do those oh small misunderstanding truly misunderstanding right I say something and you hear something else and and that grows into a a point of friction And how often do they grow into sometimes longl lasting resentments? And um on another point of reflection, how do these see them see them minor conflicts can ripple into our own spiritual growth? Right? So we're just going to have that in our in the back of our mind so that we can think about it. conflicts exist but what are we doing with those? So just [laughter] can we can we talk about these this this

e're just going to have that in our in the back of our mind so that we can think about it. conflicts exist but what are we doing with those? So just [laughter] can we can we talk about these this this whole area of uh of conflicts? >> Yes. First of all, let me say something while we that at least we have a mom, right? And then it came to my mind that that um saying it takes a village, [laughter] right? >> To to raise a child. And a village is not the amount of people. It can be a single mom. It can be a single father if by adoption, you know. [gasps] But yes, sometimes it's just one person and we always have to think that this one person is doing the best that one can. uh even if we have a you know complaints um no one is perfect and uh at the end of the day I think it's always good to think um maybe I was not giving more or I was giving enough because that person could give me that we only can give to others what we have and when we are talking about family you mentioned the key word you mentioned unity right we are a unity We are [laughter] let's say corporation right name. Yes, good way of thinking, right? >> Like it or not, uh this is how it happens and uh I'm sure everyone will think about you know your own situation at home or if with your family members, extended families as you know with some of them being an an easier relationship than with others. But the the the thing is we are always requesting requiring so much from the other forgetting that we are the ones that have to give as well. And when we are talking about a family and to find unity and to reduce disturbances, we have to >> chip in. We really have to to think about what is my role here? What can I I I do to contribute for the betterment of situation. As much as we can sometimes contribute for situations to go to its worst, we have to think about what can I do to make it better or sometimes is just not doing anything. Just knowing that you know all of us have difficult days whether you are a child or you are

o its worst, we have to think about what can I do to make it better or sometimes is just not doing anything. Just knowing that you know all of us have difficult days whether you are a child or you are an adult. You may be a child suffering bullying at your school and then you come home and you you need to vent and and you have to understand that but at the end of the day uh it's is it's mostly about really really caring about each other >> to the point of us perceiving the nuances in our behaviors in their behaviors. Why is this person acting like that? not labeling immediately like you know you always act like that when I raise a certain subject. Why? Yeah, >> there must be a root be behind all that. But sometimes you know we we understand we all are living in the same world and we understand how hard it is and how demanding the world is today and and and I think um we've been not paying that much attention to family, not putting that much value in family life and uh this is a disaster for society and this is what Joanna is trying to bring us when she talks about the spiritual constellation. I mean uh because >> can you can you sorry to interrupt you but can you talk a little about what is a spiritual constellation based on what Joanna brings to us. Uh so so people all of us have the same understanding. >> Okay. Basically she's explaining to us one thing that we are not randomly put together in uh a household. >> Okay. So going from the point where we in this spiritism believes in reincarnation among other philosophies, you know, um we have to understand that when we are >> um designing so to say our new incarnation, we will be placed among a group of spirits that we have history with this history may be one of tremendous love or hate >> or you know uh spirits that can come for the first time in that f family constellation so to say but there is a history and above all even if we do not have a history with each other we do have histories and they are going to place us in a way that each one of us

f family constellation so to say but there is a history and above all even if we do not have a history with each other we do have histories and they are going to place us in a way that each one of us are going to have our sympathies, our preferences uh and um the things that we don't like and and this can become a clash in terms of u um the relationship on the day-to-day basis. So the constellation would be this group of spirits that they are united through a law of cause and effect. There is a purpose even if I I say okay I never met you in any of my previous existences. But in any case we are placed together because we have something to learn from each other to grow together. So you can give me something uh and I can give you something. I can teach you something. You can teach me something. And this is basically what she talks about spiritual constellation. So she completely nullify annihilate the idea that we are randomly uh placed at our household. >> Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you. It is it is so funny, right? Because uh it is we have to refocus, right? We all going through conflicts. Yes. Yes. Yes. But if we put in that lens of spiritism, right? And and Joanna is so good uh in terms of bringing that reminder to us because uh number one, family is not just a biological group as you mentioned Josada. It is this meeting of spirits, right? this this context this arena perhaps we can say for all of us to grow that's the environment but uh we have to see that uh the so-called disturbances or conflict are not just problems but uh and I I love it because we we hear Joanna say this over and over again right she calls it those are invitations for us to learn but I would say not just learn to forgive and to grow. Right. So from from that p Yeah. Go ahead. >> The idea of you know two stones that has to be rubbed one in each other >> in order to be polished. >> So sometimes the rubbing even if it's painful it means that at the end of the day both of us will live [laughter]

know two stones that has to be rubbed one in each other >> in order to be polished. >> So sometimes the rubbing even if it's painful it means that at the end of the day both of us will live [laughter] more >> right more enlightened. uh more experienced and it's the same when we are talking about you know the encounter of spirits and the in the family constellation and in this case it's not just father mother siblings but it's is the extended family as well right >> caretakers right nanny all of those even teachers that care for each individual that I I love, by the way, the the idea of a constellation, right? So, it's all the stars that gravitate and there is a there has to be uh gravity that pulls and pushes and pulls objects together. So I think if we use that uh that metaphor and I know psychologists uh do have a method called family consolation but for us that spiritual consolation that idea that we all have a place and we are as you mentioned just we were designed it's not random there is an intention for us to put at this place with these people this other bodies uh so that all of us can help each other grow, right? >> Yes. And even before we let um you know any misguided feelings or not so good feelings take root. We should understand that that there there is a purpose and one thing that she she mentions uh when she talks about spiritual disturbances is about honesty. Yeah. >> So I I was wondering you know thinking about our routine nowadays is everyone in the household having you know a mobile device right >> and sometimes we I mean it's not again it's not to criticize technology which is absolutely great and you know I can't wait to have it even more at our disposal but but has to to have a balance And sometimes we we see families that are not communicating with each other. >> That has to be a sacred moment. That has to be a moment in the family that I will pay attention to you. I I look at at your eyes and I will try to see beyond your words and and try to see um what

. >> That has to be a sacred moment. That has to be a moment in the family that I will pay attention to you. I I look at at your eyes and I will try to see beyond your words and and try to see um what are your exactly uh exact feelings about something that you are just you know voicing right now and sometimes I think you know it's so easier when when people say you definitely arrived home with that lone face and then the other one we what happened nothing [laughter] everything is fine of course it's not fine >> and I mean that should never be an answer and that should never be something that the other should accept >> perhaps right answer would be okay I understand that you are not able to talk about it now >> yes >> but come back later and talk to me what is going on when you're ready at least to acknowledge that I'm seeing you. >> Yeah. And I think this is key, right, Jada? I see you and the other person feels seen >> and a lot of our huge conflicts and we're talking about if if moving away or beyond the family, right? um you know um urban violence, communities clashing with each others, cities, countries, you know, the world sometimes at large going through some some huge conflicts and it's it's it's expressed through violence. And uh the the only way that we can counter that which means a movement toward peace is it has to start within us right Josara. It has to be me first because I can be violent and and uh with myself, right? I can hurt myself and I and I may have some uh conflicts with my myself and uh it's expressed in a way that it is contagious with if I'm a mother with my kids, if I I only I don't have kids but I have a partner, it's contagious to that partnership, etc., etc. So, it's really important to start within. But I I love what you said. It it it's so simple. Just do not and I'm talking to you, but I'm talking to myself, right? Let us all not accept fine. If I see something, let's make sure that person is seen, right? Feels seen at that point.

s so simple. Just do not and I'm talking to you, but I'm talking to myself, right? Let us all not accept fine. If I see something, let's make sure that person is seen, right? Feels seen at that point. And there are other things like you mentioned you know violence and you know and it was something that I wanted to to bring about you also in our in our reflections which is domestic violence. >> Yes >> it comes with spiritual you know the disturbances the family family disturbances that we are talking about and what is domestic violence is when I scream at my child. It is when my partner look at me and say you look awful in this dress. Uh you know it it's not just the beating and hitting. No it is not. We have to expand our vision when we are talking about uh domestic violence because there are many people that get frustrated, resentment, trauma, >> out of words that are constantly misspoken. So a child, let's say that you have a child that has AGA, right? And and then did I mention it right? >> Child is hyperactive and always and you know child is not yet diagnosed but you keep on saying oh my god you you run like crazy all the time and you always forget where is your head and this becomes trauma. Yes, >> this is for so much regret when your child is going to be um you know diagnosed. What can you do to to go back in time and erase the labeling that you put on that child? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Do that so easily uh in in terms of relationships. Oh, you are always complaining. Maybe you know that person is is really he needs affection. There are people that needs more affection than others like we were saying. We have to put in also in in place here to talk about previous reincarnation. Maybe that that is a person that brings so much loneliness, solitude from the past that now >> it requires attention because you [laughter] know, you know, [gasps] I want to believe that I'm I there are people that really care for me and so you keep fasting >> and I think this is an issue when we are

uires attention because you [laughter] know, you know, [gasps] I want to believe that I'm I there are people that really care for me and so you keep fasting >> and I think this is an issue when we are talking about uh how um oblivious we can be in terms of our words and our behaviors towards and how it can represent hurting or less affection because like when say fine and I say nothing. >> Yeah. >> It means it was just a rhetorical question, right? >> Yeah. I I I don't have time I don't have time to hear. Yeah. >> To you starting your troubles now and I'm with my mobile, right? >> Yeah. Oh, this is a topic that is a favorite topic of mine and uh from Joanna, right? I I'm I'm just paring or maybe be inspired by by Joanna D'Angelus, but the favorite topic is how distracted we are. So the exercise to really look and see the other it's may not be so easy right Josada but just to to to reconfirm what you're saying um domestic violence has different shapes and forms and we can quickly list them beyond uh physical violence right but we we're talking about sexual violence we also talk about the verbal violence and in some cases that neglect you you simply are not paying attention. >> So those are really difficult um aspects of a of a of a family dynamics, right? But uh I think we talked a little bit already about the idea of a spiritual constellation and that because uh that implies the belief in reincarnation which uh Jos and I both believe it right. But in in terms of that uh cycle of incarnation and reincarnation there is also an implication an an assumption that there is a growth from one point to the next from one um existence or one life to the next uh material life. So um you mentioned already Josada that we are not uh randomly put together by any means and in many cases if there are some friction it may represent those uh cause and effect or even in in in you can call it a karma or karmic laws depending on on your you know eastern or western uh philosophical uh pendants. But uh um we

friction it may represent those uh cause and effect or even in in in you can call it a karma or karmic laws depending on on your you know eastern or western uh philosophical uh pendants. But uh um we we are all unique and I think that's what I would like to bring it here. We are all unique and we're all like these little stars. That is such a poetic view of who we are. But we are all as stars individuals but we have to see ourselves as part of a larger group, right? And as such um regardless of our immediate family and we can pause to think about who they are, right? U my family happens to live uh my extended family to live very far from me from from me, right? So I can immediately think of them and there's this this warmth that comes to to around me just the thinking of of them, right? In in from a spiritist perspective, we see that the family are often the family unit is often made of those spirits that loved one another in the past. But it can also mean and I I'm just repeating what you said, right? But it can also mean that it can be made of those who hurt each other, right? And uh we either way we're together to love to heal those wounds if the wounds are there. But uh we can only heal if we forgive and we evolve. And to do this we really need to work how do we resolve those conflicts and absolutely violence is not the answer. The violence feeds more violence. Right Jos? Yes. We are all very familiar with the the phrase unfinished business, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And this is what it is. Uh reincarnation is about unfinished business. And uh what a blessing that we have an opportunity to go there and finish finish in the sense of you know like you were saying in the sense of uh uh making amends in learning in growing in having more opportunities and by the way you me and half of the world statistically we believe in reincarnation. I'm I'm just >> That's right. That's right. [laughter] a Netflix series that it's a it's about reincarnation, you know, hold the Korean

and half of the world statistically we believe in reincarnation. I'm I'm just >> That's right. That's right. [laughter] a Netflix series that it's a it's about reincarnation, you know, hold the Korean series. It's a all about reincarnation and it's >> which one is it just you know the name? >> My 19th life. >> My 19 lives. All right. >> 19 life. Yeah. >> My 19th life. Yeah. >> This it is it's very nice. very like but it it's interesting because everything revolves around reincarnation uh one single individual remembering um her her incarn reincarnations and um it really makes you ponder because sometimes you know we all have those questions about oh if I I lived uh before why don't I remember and if you watch that you will see [laughter] oh >> oh I can't wait for I'm going to see to watch that as soon as I can. Great great tip here just >> what a blessing that I don't remember you know because it's too much sometimes it's just too much to live with just what we have in one life imagine you remembering 19 [laughter] incarnations reincarnations >> yeah a a thought came to my mind just that it's completely off [snorts] but it just crossed my mind um it's one of the many many many um portrayal of Sherlock Holmes, right? Of course, Sherlock, as we know, is uh is a fictional character, extremely bright that could solve just about any problem. But in a in a rather recent um uh series of uh it was a a movie. Um the idea was the reason he was so good at solving solving mysteries, right, is because his memory, his brain could capture and hold on to much more than we ordinary people do, right? and and uh I go back to the statistics that uh that uh uh we are you know we have about depending on the statistics from 6,000 to 60,000 different unique thoughts a day right so can you imagine all those thoughts coming in and in addition to those thoughts the uh ability to perceive things [clears throat] and and when you're talking about the reincarnation and the the impossibility or the

ne all those thoughts coming in and in addition to those thoughts the uh ability to perceive things [clears throat] and and when you're talking about the reincarnation and the the impossibility or the blessing not to remember. The thought came to my mind of this one where Sherlock was often depressed and and and really difficult person to even engage in in uh uh socially because he saw so much that he was not comfortable, right? He was he was never at ease. And I think it's a an interesting way to put those two things together. If I know everything that I missed, all my missed deadlines as a project manager just that is the the worst thing you can do is miss a deadline. But all the missed deadlines quote unquote because all the things that we were expected right to do to accomplish to perform and we don't or in the process we do with less quality. So all of those guilt that would carry within us would be most likely too much would crush our souls. So from that perspective, let's watch the the series [laughter] from Netflix and uh and really ponder about the blessings of not remembering so that we can focus on the aspects that we can control in in this present moment. >> But you see Marcia even that is hard because since we are talking about psychology, spirituality, >> right? Even though we do not have a mind like Sherlock Holmes and this like you said it was really a blessing. Uh it's all there. So I don't have the remembrances but I have the feelings. I have the emotion. >> Got it. >> Yes. >> I have the the happiness, the anguish that it's unknown. Sometimes, you know, I look at the flower that I I'm seeing for the first time, but I I mean, it gives me such a um, you know, such a no, such an an inspiration, such a a moment of happiness, and I don't know why, you know, it's a simple flower and and then it can be related to something in your past or on the on the the other side, there may be something that will trigger some bad memories from other lives. So we we have to understand that we are

d then it can be related to something in your past or on the on the the other side, there may be something that will trigger some bad memories from other lives. So we we have to understand that we are very complex beings and this is what makes living in a household so difficult because >> that's all like you said >> universe per se. >> Yeah. Yeah. And we are all under the same roof and uh sometimes [clears throat] our universe is collapsed. [laughter] >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And um and we do not understand the reason why we are together. And this is what Joanna D'Angelo is trying to say. You have to be open. You have to talk to to each other, to your partner, to your children, to your mother, to your father. Because unless there is honesty about your emotions, how can we really you know find a little peace and sincerity at home if I cannot? It's not like you know some people do you know they put their best behavior once they are out of the door and then oh my god they are horrible people inside the household. >> It's not about that. is about really, you know, um being capable of showing yourself of of talking to each other and and she mentions about even sexual relationships how they areed >> in in the case you you know you do not have this dialogue, this sincere dialogue that may you know create a a bigger void that you already may be seeing and And so, you know, when I think about it, you know, family therapy, couples therapy is the way to go. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes you do not need to look for a professional outside the home. >> You just have to talk to each other. >> If you don't, there will be probably more and more separation. children grow up, they they start their own lives and less and less they feel any connection with their parents >> and so sorry go ahead and finish and I just have an example >> and and and and so you know um or you know then children grow to university the the spouses grow apart And uh how how many divorces we see you know when

ahead and finish and I just have an example >> and and and and so you know um or you know then children grow to university the the spouses grow apart And uh how how many divorces we see you know when when people come at this age right it means like >> there was just an article yes just there was just an article about it divorce rates everyone is going down in the US right divorce rates is going down except for after the third you know the the the third of your life say After you are uh in your 60s and your family members, the young ones are gone as you mentioned and perhaps you start to wind down your career and all of those missions or responsibilities of your life that uh f were your focus, they're gone and you have to readjust the focus again which should have never be out of focus, by the way. But, uh, uh, the focus is each other. If it's a couple, the the the rate of divorce at that age is growing and it's a new phenomenon. Isn't it funny? Right. >> I would say more, you know, it's uh, it's not about just having to readapt, but it's about, you know, repressing emotions. So now I'm free >> and now I'm still you know at an age that I can you know live my life and I think that this is more more of a feeling but why because there was not this honesty there was not this uh you know uh part sincere partnership among the members of the family and like I say it comes to a point where Uh your son and daughter are no longer just your your son and daughters, the ones that you you know you have to say what to do and how to raise. They are grownups >> and adults and and and and you have to be friends. You have to find something in common. You have to have this con is spiritual connection. And one of the things that that she mentions that is very important uh in terms of you know that can help this family dynamics is exactly spirituality in the home >> is about having some spiritual beliefs. It can be what whatever one you choose, whatever one is best for you. But that moment in the family where the family

mics is exactly spirituality in the home >> is about having some spiritual beliefs. It can be what whatever one you choose, whatever one is best for you. But that moment in the family where the family are going to to sit together, read from a a spiritual a spiritually enlightening book or message or just, you know, reflect. Uh along our conversation, we were talking Yeah. >> We were talking about how little we pay attention to things. And I always remember you know uh eastern culture and tnahang is speaking about mindfulness. Okay, today we are going to sit together and reflect about mindfulness. It can be just one word. What does it mean to you? >> How are we applying this in our daytoday lives? Are you being mindful when I'm talking to you? Are you being mindful when I prepare this meal for you? [gasps] Are you being mindful when you you say some things to me? Uh, you know, just a single thing, a single phrase from from one of the the the wise the wisdom that we have all over the world. the wise uh people that came before us in our time like you know Joanna D'Angel here that we are talking about about her and Valdo Franco and and so many others and we we read a phrase and we think about it. So this is a sacred moment and this is a moment that is is really going to be the one that will will put everything together. is like in the east in your dough and make grow the emotion towards your other you know uh and and I think she she says it it beautifully it doesn't matter what what religion what philosophy you follow but it's important to have something >> to to have some spirituality I I I just had to go to the the mount mountain sign a hospital today. And then there was a huge uh one of those, how do I say the um advertising there, the postcards there, the huge one that was saying um national spiritual week, national week care, >> you know, what I I I feel like taking a picture and send it to my friends. Listen, this is >> in a hospital you a better >> a better Yeah. Uhhuh.

ing um national spiritual week, national week care, >> you know, what I I I feel like taking a picture and send it to my friends. Listen, this is >> in a hospital you a better >> a better Yeah. Uhhuh. >> National spiritual week care. So like a caring about our spirituality. >> Yes. >> And uh and you see thank God it's all around. We just have to pay more attention. So >> absolutely. Yeah. And it's uh and it's really interesting for spiritist families, right? We are encouraged, highly encouraged to at least once a week to sit as a family and read a sacred book. It can be the Bible, it can be the gospel according to spiritism, etc., etc. But that moment of uh reflection of reading and reflecting with your children, with each other really is key for a harmonious life. Can you talk a little bit more about it? It's such a good practice >> and not every family does, right? Not every family does. >> I'm very open about that. Right. And so one day in the spirit center um uh one of the attendants came to me and said you know I I want to do the uh the gospel at home but my my my husband is Muslim and my two children are raised Musling as well and I said it doesn't matter which book you are using your >> correct correct because when we are talking about uh that you know moment their moment of prayer at your home. We are talking about all the family being together and so if this is what is going to be you know to resonate in them you will use them you will use this moment and while you were making the question it came to my mind that it could be you know a movie night. That's that's a good point, right? A moment of togetherness, right? Just Yeah. >> Let's sit together and watch a movie. Each each week, one family member is going to choose a movie and then you are going to be sitting together sharing popcorn and and and and exchanging ideas about the movie. >> That's what we this [laughter] is the spirituality that we are talking about. This is the the unity that we are talking about uh the sacredness of

and and and and exchanging ideas about the movie. >> That's what we this [laughter] is the spirituality that we are talking about. This is the the unity that we are talking about uh the sacredness of family of having that moment as being sacred. No, today is the day >> our time. Yeah. >> That we have that you you can be invited to join but isn't the day that we have our time. It's not Sunday lunch. It's it's not the same thing because you know it's it's too busy. No, everyone is going to be sitting watching focusing on the same thing and relaxing their minds and joining hands or you know >> sharing popcorn and then you know commenting about the movie. Sunday lunch can be more hectic [laughter] you know and feel more like an obligation. But you see each one will find uh their own uh their own own thing. It can be a a game night game. I get a board game. Let's play all together. >> But it's it's all about uh connection, right? A point of connection. And when we are investing in that when we're we're making huge not small huge investment to society as a whole because it it begins in that most sacred environment of a family that family unit >> right and uh and I can imagine that uh whatever that ritual may be and you said it so well Jos can be reading the Bible or the Quran or any other sacred book or any a book of poetry or watching a movie whatever it is that's that's ritual that it is there and uh it leads to from a psychology perspective the emotional safety and connection among each other and I think at the end of the day this is what we're talking about right just throughout our conversation today it's about uh creating the trust that exists and with trust you can speak about uh all the the good, the bad and the ugly of your days. The the the the fact that you as a child or or a teenager you are you you you you are uh being treated maybe unfairly or inappropriately or even bullied. I don't know. But whatever is making you uncomfortable, let's have your home as that nest of

a teenager you are you you you you are uh being treated maybe unfairly or inappropriately or even bullied. I don't know. But whatever is making you uncomfortable, let's have your home as that nest of trust and respect and and comfort, right? >> Yeah. And we keep on saying how disturbed the world is. >> Yeah. >> And for for that I was thinking about Gandi's famous statement. >> Yeah. the peace you want to see in the world. So if you cannot manage to have peace to live in an harmonious as much as possible doing your effort in your home because you know uh this is what you will bring outside the your vibe you know the >> as hard as one person may be as uh you know a spirit and maybe because of you know previous incarnations because the history there is a lot to to grow. >> Yeah. >> You you come from a household where where there is peace there is understanding there is the trying to make it better. >> You will be better. There's it's you cannot escape from this fate. We reflect our homes outside our homes. And so this is why when we talk about family and family responsibility and and even when we talk about uh inspiritism in terms of parenthood as being a mission, it's not even a task. It is a mission because you have the mission of bringing forth well raised spiritually balanced citizens. And this is what we have to pay attention to. and and and even if you are the parents in this you know the relationship with the child you grow as well. So there there is an exchange of growing and learning and a and at the end uh we are responsible for what we are seeing in the world today. So that's why it is a family constellation in the sense that here we are we gather under this roof but I make an impact. >> Yeah. >> And the whole world according to how we live here. And if we want to, you know, to love the world, to be fraternal, to love one another, how can we do that if not by starting in our own home? So, we have to I know how hard this can be for some people, but we have

nt to, you know, to love the world, to be fraternal, to love one another, how can we do that if not by starting in our own home? So, we have to I know how hard this can be for some people, but we have to put aside our intolerance, our lack of forgiveness. And uh remembering that this is a precious precious opportunity for us to to think about to think about that one that is more difficult to live with in your family and do your best. As long as you're doing your best, it doesn't matter whether there will be a super harmonious relationship in the end or not, but you will be doing your best and be sure that it will make an impact on the other. >> I love it. I love it. It is right. Uh I I guess to to to just put into your words into another sentence, uh society at large cannot transform itself spiritually without first transforming that family life. So this is this is really an important discussion just I really really appreciate it. Do you have any final words before we we close today? >> Just one final phrase that I [laughter] I have here. Social regeneration is impossible without family regeneration. So let's start small [laughter] >> and do what we have to do and love one another >> our our household. >> Yes. So today uh with Josada we we discussed how this peaceful society depends on all of us right it depends on how our families reflect the peace and harmony that we want to see in the world and uh each act of patience forgiveness and mutual respect within that uh environment that family environment contributes to everyone. one, it's the individual and the family contributing directly to the collective growth. So, let's all commit to do a little bit more. Even if it is today, I'm going to listen more or today I'm going to look in the eye of my brother, my sister, my mother, my father, whoever that little thing may be. I'm going to commit to uh give a hug when I I don't before I haven't. Right? Whatever it is your expression of love, let's commit one little bit more than what you're already

that little thing may be. I'm going to commit to uh give a hug when I I don't before I haven't. Right? Whatever it is your expression of love, let's commit one little bit more than what you're already doing because uh it is a bold invitation that Joanna puts to us to transform society within our efforts, within our control, within our families. Thank you, Josada. Thank you everyone for being here. If this is the first time you're listening to our program, please note that uh the psychology and spirituality program, they are weekly and they're all based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus and uh we we sincerely hope this has uh maybe inspired you to think about your family differently. I want to also just thank our sponsors Mansino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council and Army Brazil. Thank you everyone and until next time.