Ep 91 - Inside Out: Getting to Know our Emotions (Anger)

hello everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to Better Life discussion I'm your host Marcia Tran and with me is Dr anay fona hi an how are you doing today hi Marsh I'm doing great hi everyone very nice to be here with you all very good um well today we're going to talk about an interesting emotion we going to talk about anger and an if I may just talk a little bit this is may be a little bit academic but let's just give the foundation of what anger is about right it is an emotion and uh that emotion can manifest itself in a variety of ways physically and emotionally so it's good for us to to understand how complex it is and what is what are the impacts for example some of the common physical symptoms may be yeah your heart rate right increases you may feel your heart pounding I do that a lot uh your muscles can tense right they tighten you can feel that in your jaw in your neck in your shoulders uh you may start sweating and your skin I I always see in car tons where when you're angry you get really flushed right your skin becomes quite red and in some cases we may start shake or tremble from a behavior perspective that anger will trigger aggression and that aggression can be seen from just outbursts right of of a voice or or even physical actions uh I've seen in movies but also we see in in novels where somebody's so angry that they just slam the door or they throw object that irritability is a Behavior Uh change uh a behavior expression of of anger right and uh um you just start to snap at people because you're no longer as patient as you were because of that anger or in some cases uh I'm one of those I they just withdraw they withdraw they don't they're so angry that they're they cannot trust themselves that they're going to be able to stay in that situation so they just move away to avoid harsher realities but beyond those physical Behavior expressions of anger we also can talk about emotional responses right so we may be frustrated we may feel that we've been

y just move away to avoid harsher realities but beyond those physical Behavior expressions of anger we also can talk about emotional responses right so we may be frustrated we may feel that we've been disrespected blocked we feel resentment bitterness uh hostility right we may be harboring feelings of animosity um and uh uh even in a from a cognitive perspective racing thoughts right just you're so angry that everything comes so fast at you or we focus so much that we start to look at everything else or of course from a communication perspective we may uh start to use our communication in a different manner what I'm talking about is we're yelling we're blaming we can even use harsh vulgar language right or in some cases sarcasm right so it's all of those are symptoms of anger and I know this as we study as we read about it and I think the main message for us to think about is that when you recognize those symptoms then you are able to perhaps manage your anger in a better way that doesn't hurt you but before we we dedicate this entire time together in this academic exercise I want us to talk about free think thinking and let's digress right um uh we already had two episodes uh when we referenced inside out right because those who are in studying psychology interested they see that very youthful uh movie that they are good because they bring the idea of all of your emotional uh response inside one's brain but good that it might be the one scene that I thought and I was actually a completely different movie which is really um Star Wars right when um there's a scene where Luke Skywalker for those of you who know uh Luke Skywalker death Raider are the two main uh um characters right in that franchise and Luke Skywalker is about to talk to Emperor before the battle between Luke and Darth Vader and he needs it talks about anger but he needs to confirm some truths truths big truths about himself and about what it is that he needs to do do you remember that scene can you talk about it I love that

he needs it talks about anger but he needs to confirm some truths truths big truths about himself and about what it is that he needs to do do you remember that scene can you talk about it I love that I love that and I love Star Wars and I think it's much better um scene for instance for us um to use as an analogy of what happens to us like in psychological and spiritual terms because Inside Out is great it's fantastic uh but uh we can use uh uh of course an analogy of what happens to our inner child for instance and we when we are adolescents of course we're saying that wow our culture is very adolescent these days right yes that but we want and we need to grow up so I was thinking Mara that I was like I think um I love the Original Trilogy of Star Wars with Luke Skywalker and Vader Emperor palatin I think it's the bad guy and and Princess Leia and of course all the the other characters but um that scene that you talked about it's you know it's very very useful for us to understand what happens to us in terms of um what it's like within us Consciousness higher Consciousness and what is uh still Shadow aspects as Jung says um like anger and and difficult emotions that are connected to Inner conflicts of course and Joanna that our talks based on on her books also so Joanna says that um anger can come from psychological uh aspect of this life of this personality that we live but also for uh from spiritual you know past experiences that are still with us that we still have to work U on them so I think this SC that you talked about is great because we can see everything on it everything I think it's a can I tell you some of the words that he uses it's so cool yes the scene is right uh uh the emperor tells L your friends will not survive all right so so it's really the context choose right your friends will not survive there is nocape the alliance and and to me the alliance as a context is all of the environment that you inserted on right will die as will your friends and then

ose right your friends will not survive there is nocape the alliance and and to me the alliance as a context is all of the environment that you inserted on right will die as will your friends and then he says I can feel your anger and and he goes I'm defenseless take your weapon strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey toward the dark side will be completed and it's very interesting because he keeps you know egging him on come on do this you can do it you can surface the dark side to kill me and protect the alliance protect your friends and whenn in so many words right but uh later in that u in that discussion he says um you underestimate the power of the dark side if you not fight then you will meet your Destiny so it's just beautiful because it's is it good and evil is it light and dark is it the truth about myself what is it can you talk to us about it an I think you you have so many great perspective on on Star Wars overall but on this topic at hand yeah so I I would love to start with um because it's it's so wonderful how everything connects with a sentence by Joanna when she says like a fire that can begin with a spark and bring incalculable damages as it spreads so anger can also be sparked with a small simple insinuation be becoming a volcano of destructive colera that takes over completely so uh in this scene that I strongly advise everyone to watch now let's go back the original series that's wonderful and um the emperor actually um is threatening look right because is remembering he's saying that uh his friends will die that so uh that um there is no hope the alliance the good will not survive right and um make this journey because the anger he is trying to spark this fire as Janna says in look uh that of the anger so if he feels the anger then he will and gives up uh gives in to the anger then he will complete his journey to the dark side as as you said but it's something really if you can uh think of of he's trying to use the love that he

he will and gives up uh gives in to the anger then he will complete his journey to the dark side as as you said but it's something really if you can uh think of of he's trying to use the love that he feels for his friends for everything that is good in the Galaxy because the alliance was trying to of course bring light back to the do that Galax far far away right um and um so he's trying to use that to turn this this love and this uh this um sacrifice that Luke is doing for his father because we have to remember that this is the uh this is the last movie from the trilogy right when he faces um Darth Vader in that that's previously the the battle between or the fight between him between Luke and his father so Luke's trying to turn his father uh from the Dark Side to the light and bring him back to the light and of course uh he went it's kind of naive it looks like very naive because he surrenders to the emperor right yeah so that he can face the his father and asks his F and he says I'm not going to fight you father okay because his father uh of course we all know uh uh has uh given to the emperor palatin and gone to he was a Jedi right Luke's father and but then he turns to the dark side because of hatred and all this stuff so Luke is U like trying to transform all of this to bring his father and to it's like a hero Journey right that we all have to do to to Really strive persist in bringing the light that is within all of us in action in this world right and this is everything like evolving Consciousness um working with our shadows from the psychological point of view so what Joanna is saying with this beautiful image that um it's like a fire and um it begins with a spark that can bring incalculable damage as it spreads right and anger can do that yes so I was thinking uh What uh which or who is emperor palatin in our days Mara and everyone and automatically I thought look of all the images that we have through you know different kind of Medias and the social medias also and

h which or who is emperor palatin in our days Mara and everyone and automatically I thought look of all the images that we have through you know different kind of Medias and the social medias also and all this stuff small sometimes are small words small images that come and try to make us uh feel anger right yes even if it's it it is it sounds like a justif Justified for us to oh I'm anger I feel anger because you know I and sometimes Marca when I was listening to you g describe ing the physical effects of anger yeah we we and the image of the volcano comes to my mind again that fashion you know yes yeah if you surrender to this kind of passion then Janna also says that it's like a vicious cycle no uh um Circle sorry it's like a vicious thing because then you you get stuck that and it's really a passion and don't we well I'm not in social medias but I I I listen to that from my patients and family and friends all the time so what's going on this days is of course there are people exchanging good things and right and emotions and bringing some reflections of course but the part of it in our days that is like a Emperor palatin trying to you know to make us um fight each other and it's seducing right it's it's a very seductive in a in a negative manner but seducting uh seductive way to bring to what is manipulative right yes but it's plain with the emotional response to a threat and and I think think that's what anger is is a a mechanism to respond to thread your friends your life everyone will die it's a it's a direct threat come on get get angry right but I love what you say who is who is that in our lives today who who ISL that seductive manipulative um way of pulling us into uh a an outof control type of emotional response yes and look what Jah says Mara and everyone anger is an emotion activated whenever the ego feels wanted yes liberating that abominable opponent that destroys peace in an individual so um if we I think we have to really pay attentions to our attention to

an emotion activated whenever the ego feels wanted yes liberating that abominable opponent that destroys peace in an individual so um if we I think we have to really pay attentions to our attention to ourselves because if we feel wanted of course we are we keep saying this here in our talks right uh I shouldn't um I shouldn't look outside of myself and people are asking to look outside all the time all the time lots of images and news and discuss easier though anay it's so much easier to to to look outside instead of inside and and and you know if I go back to the to the dialogue what I see is without words without words Luke is having the dialogue within himself to really go deep deep within to understand how do I react to this external impulse for me to be angry right oh yes that's a point because of course in the moment that the emperor is seducing him in a sense making a threats yeah making him uh we can see in Luke's face that in the beginning he's feeling hatred and the emperor feels that okay because it was like a telepathic or whatever right uh so um the dark side can be we cannot be naive can be really seductive and strong because um in in our days uh in kind of uh if we think of our Consciousness we still have Shadow work to do of course we are not light yet totally light we have a lot of light within us but it's still um are still working on it so it can shine brightly in in a very near uh future right because we know we are all evolving and this this is like um the world uh Works in this way and Consciousness Consciousness Works in this way it's all always evolving okay so we know that but the thing is that um the shadow uh is still there there is still some Shadow within all of us and of course um as we have said before uh our personal Shadow connects to the collective Shadow right so as as much light as we can turn on within ourselves and manifest in the world then we are we're manifesting as a collectiveness also but what I think it's very important for us to think

hadow right so as as much light as we can turn on within ourselves and manifest in the world then we are we're manifesting as a collectiveness also but what I think it's very important for us to think about is that when the ego as J is asking us to think feels wounded okay then um probably we are going to liberate that abominable as she says opponent that destroys peace within ourselves but um of course we have a hard time understanding that all of this happens inside of us as you say Mar it's easier to think that everything is happening outside of us because actually is happening because the collective uh collectively we are of course working in these days um with the with our Collective Shadow but uh we cannot help others if we don't do the homework right of doing this work when inside of us right very very interesting what you said we cannot help let's say the world if we don't help ourselves and and and this is very beautifully said but it it's an alert to all of us let's let's listen let's be prepared we're not even prepared to listen because we're so distracted nowadays right let's be very intentional and let's filter all those inputs and control if if you will manage how those inputs touch us how do we react to those inputs so that we can then feed the external with a positive light versus uh bringing even more pollution more Darkness if you will yes yes that's great greatly sad because if I feel wounded and the ego is consciousness right so if I'm conscious that feeling wounded right uh if I have this insight for instance if I turn to myself to discern what's going on within me myself so of course then I can recognize is it the inner child the Wonder child Within Myself do I have feelings of in inadequacy of low self steam or what's going on inside myself then of course then I can better understand when I understand myself I can better understand others because we are we all have kind of similar mechanisms and and psychically speaking but if I don't do that if I don't

hen I can better understand when I understand myself I can better understand others because we are we all have kind of similar mechanisms and and psychically speaking but if I don't do that if I don't understand myself then that's the Vicious Cycle that Joanna is talking about then of course I'm going to be the victim and everybody outside of me or the world or whatever is hurting me so I'm allowed to feel anger that's what the emperor wanted you uh you know look to feel allowed to feel and be taken by the hatred the anger yeah of course and when you do that of course when you really are filled with that then automatically you are the victim and the other and you you're justified in your Darkness yeah that's what happened father go ahead yeah I just uh the as you're speaking here there are two images and two uh great people that come to my mind but it's that anger if it's fed that the fire that spark that then catches fire is this very antagonistic right and I'm I'm putting one hand one fist against the other as in the symbolism of a of a fire a physical fight right but those two uh individuals that come to my mind and I are number one the Daly Lama this is about oh 25 years ago um the beginning of the Millennium he wrote in in in one of his books that he visited and I I may have told you this story before because it it really touched me but he visited his you know friend childhood friend who was a monk that stayed behind and he the Dal Lama was able to go in Exile and so 20 years later he visits now and they're both in their 40s one stayed behind and one was tortured every day the dalama was not so he confronts his his former friend and and he says how are you despite the fact that we both Grew Older you look so well and I love the passage because it's very almost a a vain type of remark you look so good you don't look like the ravages of a tortured life would seem to do to your body and of course um from their philosophical religious perspective it's all about about loving loving compassion

k so good you don't look like the ravages of a tortured life would seem to do to your body and of course um from their philosophical religious perspective it's all about about loving loving compassion right so the monk says uh I couldn't right when the person that imprisoned me would come to torture me I had to look at him with love and compassion because if I didn't I would be just like him and the difference here is that he was giving orders to do this but I know better I have peace in my heart I have love and compassion and I thought my goodness what is what an amazing story to tell all of us because at the moment of any type of attack of hurt or where we're victims of whatever situation we should be able to look at ourselves and say what do I want to be what is the best I can be in this situation and the other one the other story of course is uh Nelson Mandela as he leaves the prison after 27 years of torture terrible life and as he becomes a president he goes to to lunch and there's all those people and he saw somebody in the same restaurant in another table eating by himself and I don't know if you heard this story but he invites the man in and the man sits and he shakes the whole time and he's very quiet right and and they have din lunch together they leave and somebody ask him who was that man and he said oh he was the guard that tortured me right he tortured me every day and and everybody's like why didn't you imprison him I can't right if I do I'll be just like him so let's practice again uh he didn't say this but it's all about forgiveness it's about love and it's about compassion extrapolating the situation of conflict right yes exactly yeah but it's not easy Martha because uh for many people and this examples you know of course theama is a spiritual leader with all the Buddhist um Millennia tradition uh and practice right meditation and a lot of um uh reading and studying and um I've been to and Nelson Mandela I've been to Cape Town and I've seen the island I couldn't

ddhist um Millennia tradition uh and practice right meditation and a lot of um uh reading and studying and um I've been to and Nelson Mandela I've been to Cape Town and I've seen the island I couldn't I couldn't go there because I can remember I was in a congress psychiatric Congress and there was no time but I've seen it and it's kind of looking from from Cape to from you know from the city it's kind of desolate place but uh he had a bible to read from what we know and the only book that he had and he um and N Mandel and he's so decades in the prison and the guard uh became his friend actually so of course this doesn't help happen in the trilogy it was not that of Star Wars because they end up killing Dar Vader oh spoiler alert ends up killing the emperor but um of of course it's very symbolic and they could have tried luk and his father uh to turn the emperor to the to the light uh but of course we are talking about um forces that um we're joking but it's kind of uh cool because it's we can think both ways psychologically and spiritually speaking so uh forces within us that uh create that are love and light as the Creator right but our still at this point of our Evolution let's say uh growing and making themselves more apparent for ourselves and for others are evolving in a sense but we still have um opposite um like Janna says opponents within ourselves so forces that kind of uh come against our Evolution right we could say um um the darkness as you said is still within us ignorance and all of stuff that uh makes us kind of and seduces us because we are we have all these Shadows like um like the the low the low vibration emotions like Envy competition and things that dissociate us this is very important because when we are dissociated from the light let's say metaphorically speaking and also literally speaking Yeah when we prefer are we are seduced by the dark by the shadow aspects uh so of course we we get resentful and we we want to justify that our position uh is the correct one right

literally speaking Yeah when we prefer are we are seduced by the dark by the shadow aspects uh so of course we we get resentful and we we want to justify that our position uh is the correct one right so it's kind of easy in a sense to seduce some somebody that it's stuck in a childish um uh understanding of the psych and also of the spiritual U you know the spiritual Dimensions yeah so um what I think it's very important all of this you know that for instance we could think that Nelsa Mandela in the start in the beginning let's say uh his ego was wounded because he was in prison because of course he was feeling really mad for all the all the upper side stuff that was going on in his country and all this stuff but all of this from the psychological point and spiritual point of view is um um all of this kind of energies and understanding of of the world and our purpose being here in this Dimension that it's very Duo okay uh uh are forces that are not for our Evolution they are trying to dissociate us it's very interesting yeah sacred text if it is Sac if if there uh there is in the text a knowledge uh mythological you know sacred stories of our Evolution uh philosophical even scientific thoughts that help us to under better understand ourselves nature and our interconnectedness so all but especially the what we call the sacred texts if you reflect upon them you are going eventually to connect with your inner light and I think that that's what happened to Nelson Mandela H through the years because it's not chronological time it took him like um two de decades probably or more yeah but what happened eventually at is that he connected you know he reconnected relig reconnected with he the his higher self capital yung's capital as self so what happens is that of course at this point there are no enemies because we are all one even if you don't say exactly these words but if you feel that and I strongly think he felt that as your example the Dal Lama friends the monk he felt when he felt compassion for

ecause we are all one even if you don't say exactly these words but if you feel that and I strongly think he felt that as your example the Dal Lama friends the monk he felt when he felt compassion for the torture so difficult right Mara yeah but when he felt compassion then he was in a n dual position from the depth psychology perspective and then he and the guards and the torture were one so uh if I love if I love myself in a sense right if I have this inner strength of course I will love my enemy who said that that we should love our enemies yeah right that has been said to us the most the most revolutionary human in in on Earth right which is which is amazing that of everything that we heard from Jesus but this invitation to love our enemy had never been said before right so it it is a a a a truth of such magnitude for all of us to understand that's that's totally yes so intense you know and it's so beautiful because uh from the death psychology point of you uh when you understand not only with your mind but with your heart what uh he wanted to tell us when he said love thy enemy right yeah and love is understand deeply understand and Joanna talks about self Enlightenment self-enlightenment so we need to deeply understand ourselves in order to Deep understand others right and when we do that it becomes easier right it becomes possible yeah yes much easier so from this point of view anger anger that we are talking about you know just there is no point in Anger anymore because we are not going to feel threatened yeah let me let me let me let me just flip a little bit because I read about some benefit benefits of anger and this is a double-edged sword right they can be there there is a positive aspect of anger that may make us really invite and stay hold on to the anger because of those those benefits if you will so um that energy that anger energy is it can be a powerful powerful motivator for addressing things that uh that are I don't know injustices or uh activism

because of those those benefits if you will so um that energy that anger energy is it can be a powerful powerful motivator for addressing things that uh that are I don't know injustices or uh activism that you need or um uh opportunity for you to advocate for yourself for your peers for um The Underdogs right so anger can be the spark that push you to to lead to changes that maybe have not been able to to happen for a long time and um the other thing that iner does that I I read is that it it leads to enhanced resilience and uh with that resilience it can actually build emotional intelligence on handling difficult situation or even a sense of empowerment because as you know uh um if I am angry and I'm just and I'm very forceful people start listening to me right and and with that I may all of a sudden go like oh and I'm just joking here uh I think I'm going to be angry allow myself to be angry more often because when I'm angry I I command respect I commend The Silence of others I commend their obedience and and I just thought was funny that um yes uh anger we can look at all the negative sides of anger there is some positive sides of anger but anger in at its birth right it's the beginning of if you think in terms of uh its origin it's all about giving us that hot red energy type that pushes to deal with a situation that is not comfortable am I correct in saying that um am I um let's agree to disagree okay all right very good because um uh you are correct um let's say let's think from a frent point of view let's say if we are talking about the ego and the adaptation to this world in mat realistic view of our lives right yes yes that's correct but um we don't want to adapt to this world that's where Yung and Freud disagreed in a sense because um and and look uh it was like um I think almost a hundred years ago all the disagreement between um Yung and frud in the beginning right um I think they uh they broke up like uh 1912 19 13 more or less when Yung writes symbols of

um I think almost a hundred years ago all the disagreement between um Yung and frud in the beginning right um I think they uh they broke up like uh 1912 19 13 more or less when Yung writes symbols of transformation okay because he was I said no there are there is a deeper side of the psych and I have to investigate it basically and Freud would say oh this is the oul this is blah blah blah and this is a childish thought and um wishful thinking and all of this but Marca see we are like more than a hundred years from that uh that moment when they they weren't able to go on working together we have to evolve these are low low vibration emotions of course it's like as jna says it's like kind of natural still natural to our our psych our ego but um we are very these days we are very egocentric we could say right and we have to go further than that we have to go further because the ego thinks itself as the center of its reality so it's like you are in a prison you are stuck in the perception of yourself as the mo empowerment it's all about that in this sense oh I have to to be in power because I have to fight Injustice and this and that it's not that you don't have to talk about that and to you know uh think together different ways of um understanding ourselves of uh tolerating if you say if you wish our differences because everybody we are not we are waves in the same oceans but in the same but different waves right we have different experiences diff different ways of expressing this experience physically mentally emotionally and spiritually but that's the richness of this ocean so all of us in diff with different experiences and manifestations of these experiences um make this beautiful uh ocean of Life physical and spiritual life in the planet but we have to understand ourselves as a whole and if we don't do that if we dissociate if I'm always fighting it's not that I don't have to deal with difficult issues and Shadow issues that we are talking about okay but the Empower empowerment um for I think

n't do that if we dissociate if I'm always fighting it's not that I don't have to deal with difficult issues and Shadow issues that we are talking about okay but the Empower empowerment um for I think doesn't come and if we still think it's going to come from fight from anger kind of um giving this energy uh life in the planet again and again and I agree with and quite uh childish right very immature psychologically speaking to to to that yeah yeah because there there are um researches in Psychiatry and psychology we were talking about that the other day that um what you feel what we feel inside when we look at um when we talk about fear and I strongly think people could go look at our talks about fear here um so about the amida and about other structures in the brain when we see a a face of someone showing emotions of anger that we we the fear reaction starts in a in within our physical body in our brain and we react and usually we are going to react in aggressive form so we get stuck in this vicious circle of anger okay and um and then Janna says that we can adapt to these situations yeah and start developing aggressive behaviors so we never get rid of uh some kind of War for instance in the world because we are always saying oh I have to go there I have to do this and that and I have to face the situ we have to do that but you know like in United Nations the thought when they uh buildt it was after the second world war and it was all based in higher standards and the spiritual and we could say and high moral values of we need to talk to each other other in a more respectful way we need to understand that we share this planet and all all of that and just we know I know that we are um getting the to the end U so I just wanted to remind uh what Jonah says about therapy of anger right yeah that it she talks about self-enlightenment that we said courage to postpone decision Visions discussions and things like that because the wounded ego uh leads the person into inappropriate actions so if we just

e talks about self-enlightenment that we said courage to postpone decision Visions discussions and things like that because the wounded ego uh leads the person into inappropriate actions so if we just react and think I'm empowering myself because I have to you know use my anger to go there and face look what the examples that we talk here the Dalai Lama his friend Nelsa Mandela they were all saying wow it's not this bad Jah talks about Sil yes and we are screaming in the streets yes let's okay let's get everybody if we disagree with them just sit everybody sit and let's meditate yeah for yes and silence and Jonah talks about patience patience as look in that scene just coming back quickly uh he's feeling hatred but when Palpatine uh tells him yes feel the uh um the anger and get your sword and strike me what what does he do he get he turns and we see in his face that he's in he gets courage in the silence and he turns to this patience that Joanna is asking us and self-control she also tells us to have this self-control so I just wanted to finish um with this um we were talking about this guy 2,000 years ago right wonderful master that synthetized everything that was said previously from other like teachers but he gave such beautiful examples with of pacification that we seem to have forgotten and that we are allowing ourselves um to be seduced by palpin of our days and forget that we must pacify ourselves to find what to find the light right so I wanted to to tell everyone that um when Jesus on the cross yeah and we can't even imagine what uh you know have must have been to be on the cross not only the physical pain but the emotional and the the the emotional pain of course the conflict if we could imagine not him that was so evolved spiritually but us in that position right and um we say that he was connected to the christic Consciousness H in that dep psychology context that is universal love right and um in this Universal love uh love is we know that it's deep within

t and um we say that he was connected to the christic Consciousness H in that dep psychology context that is universal love right and um in this Universal love uh love is we know that it's deep within our pych in our higher self okay and it must be activated we need to activate this uh strong love that we have within ourselves and that this love represents the most effective Factor of sublimation healing and Transcendence of low energies such as anger emotions of anger as we are talking and um I just wanted to remind what he did for us in psychological and spiritual terms during the crucification uh crucifixion sorry he generated a powerful example of healing from anger when he says father forgive them because they don't know what they do so at this moment he manifest to the cosmos that he was without anger and From This Moment On In psychological deep that deep psychological terms uh and spiritual we can say that he has opened a door in our Collective unconscious for all of us to work on our human anger and aggression I just want to this no this is beautiful thank you thank you so very much I know we're at time and I wanted to to just um reconfirm or or or leave with the notion that Joanna beautiful words by the way an but Joanna the angelist really encourages us to to seek that inner silence inner peace right and to view just like what uh that uh that really extremely symbolic uh scene at the crucifixion um that for all of us to to to view challenges whatever they are in our lives as opportunities for our own personal growth for own Spiritual Development so I recommend all of you if you are interested in in know more about Jonah d'angeles and what she does how she explores um this subject I'd say um the the book existential conflicts is amazing um but maybe this was the first time you watched this podcast and please note our program psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based h on the works by Jah deangeles and we're here to talk to bring those themes to to

he first time you watched this podcast and please note our program psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based h on the works by Jah deangeles and we're here to talk to bring those themes to to light but also to offer safe space for us to confront compare corate and expand our Concepts from a psychological perspective and Before We Say Goodbye I want to say thank you for the important organizations that are sponsoring this program M cin the United States Spirits Federation the international spiritual Council and Amy Brazil and leave us your thoughts your feedback your questions maybe we'll be able to answer them address them in our next episode but with that I want to say thank you thank you an thank you everyone and I'll see you next time byebye see see you next time