Ep 88 - Do We Have to Suffer?

hello everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion my name is Marcia trano and with me are Dr naif F and just corn if this is the first time that you are here with us for our program please note the psych ology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna deangeles and we're here to talk about Concepts and truly uh confront compare correlate and expand those spiritual and psychological Concepts so that we can have a better understanding and even access perhaps uh real world advice action tips or whatever that is is going to help us lead a better life I was thinking and uh there is this uh great Sufi poet roomy I love him he said the wound is the place where the light aners you so if you think about it right it's almost like this belief that it is in the moment that we're wounded that we're in pain that we're suffering that will guide us to crack open whatever it is hiding ourselves from truth and perhaps purpose but before we start our conversation I would like to recognize the organizations that are sponsoring this program man cin the United States spiritual Federation the international spiritual Council Amy Brazil and ask you to make sure if you haven't done so to please hit subscribe take a moment to give us your questions your feedback critique opinions any thoughts we welcome and love to hear more from you but uh I have you both here with me Hi how are you doing and uh I wanted to start a conversation perhaps talking about sidarta galama or better known as Buddha according to Legend because uh it is estimated that he lived between um Mid 500 BC in mid to late fourth 4th Century BC and he was considered truly a legend a Hindu Prince he he renounced his position his wealth and he devoted his life to seek Enlightenment and as such he did so as a spiritual aesthetic and he did those and he by doing that he founded the philosophy of Buddhism right according to Buddhism there are internal and external conditions that lead us to

ch he did so as a spiritual aesthetic and he did those and he by doing that he founded the philosophy of Buddhism right according to Buddhism there are internal and external conditions that lead us to suffering and um specifically from a karmic or on one hand or from a lack of emotional wellbeing on the other right so in so many words we are the results of our own choices and experiences and between our so-called Karma and our freedom to choose oh we can say that we are the reason we suffer but this is truly a loaded statement a loaded conclusion just can we talk a little bit about suffering and do we have to suffer what do you think so hello everybody uh nice to be here I don't know J do you want to go first okay hello everyone again hello Mar um no we don't and for those who believe that for some reason we have uh H in terms of the spirituality spiritism we have any kind of uh conviction that there is no other way to uh uh to personal growth unless we go through suffering this is not true okay we do not Embrace suffering but we understand that it's part of the uh the personal growth the spiritual growth that we go through we always like to mention very simple things like you know you're a little gu little boy and of course you prefer to be home playing with your video games doing nothing um instead of going to scho and having to do with your your teacher and homework and quizzes Etc but uh otherwise if you do not go through that you're are not going to learn so in this learning process so that we can achieve uh you know Excel ourselves and we will uh face some challenges that we are going to denominate it as suffering you know I suffered to have to do that but in fact it's you know is the the growth pains that we have to go through so we do not have to suffer but yes suffer is part of this world it's part of the experience and of course we are going to expand on that and we can aggravate that or not depending also on our emotions the more we resist the it's more painful it is like

this world it's part of the experience and of course we are going to expand on that and we can aggravate that or not depending also on our emotions the more we resist the it's more painful it is like you know when you have to go and take a take a shot if you know the first thing the the nurse is going to say is relax your arm because it's going to be less painful so if we relax it's going you know to hurt but not as much if you tense our muscles then it it it's going to be worse so this is more or less what can happen as well when we are facing those challenges and sufferings in the world do you want to add something yeah yeah I think that's great what uh Jetta said and I'm thinking about uh this beautiful book uh that when it's the name in English would be in search for the truth byan janelis and I think it's something great that um she always is uh is um trying to help us to understand that we are uh in this age and time going towards uh an expanded Consciousness right and I totally agree with J we don't need to suffer uh but suffering is kind of at this point is part of our life at this point right it's not that uh we are always going to suffer in this point of our evolu ution let's say um look what Janna says in in in Search and then I would like at some point to come back to the bu to the Buddha and some of the principles of the Buddhist um concerning because she talks about look Joanna talks about Buddhism and the Four Noble Truths in uh in this beautiful book so her thoughts are very Universal in a sense right because the spiritual World from uh from where she from the point of view where she's trying to teach us right and trying to help us uh contact with our uh higher selves right with our Spirits um because there we have the truth right so it's something so beautiful in search for the truth and Johanna says in this book suffering is found in the world and I think it connects to what J is saying because the spirits that inhabit it still remain in a period of ethical moral development in

h and Johanna says in this book suffering is found in the world and I think it connects to what J is saying because the spirits that inhabit it still remain in a period of ethical moral development in which pain constitutes a psychological need for man right so um it is a psychological need in terms of growing right I don't have have to understand something that happens to me as suffering uh but if I'm looking to uh for instance I think J said about having a shot I have to take a shot right something yeah it's the it's a need for the body right so okay the pain can be there it's kind of maybe it's painful and maybe we will have some some uh symptoms a little fever because my body is reacting but it's for my own uh health so from the point of of view of the ego okay I will interpret that pain as suffering but if I see in a higher um Step of Consciousness and I think that's what J was trying to tell us uh then it's not suffering anymore exactly that it's just a a need to take care of my body and it shows that I'm a mature person because I understand that need let let's talk about it could be a discomfort we could say but not something really you know not that suffering okay we are doing a we are using an analogy a metaphor that it's from our daily life and of course we if we are talking about emotional pains then uh we go deeper than that but see Joanna is is talking about the psychological need that we have to deal with pain because of in this time and and and place we still don't have the ethical and moral development to understand some of the lessons of life and that we have G we had to go through and then probably our own Spirit has asked for some challenges right to develop to learn better some lessons um uh that it needs for instance some experiences right as suffering but um from this psychological and spiritual point of view it's discomforting and it's it's not pleasurable but maybe if we look at it in a deeper way we are not going to feel that uh you know that it's really

om this psychological and spiritual point of view it's discomforting and it's it's not pleasurable but maybe if we look at it in a deeper way we are not going to feel that uh you know that it's really suffering that's I think it's expansion of consciousness and I love the sentence by roomy that we are talking about light so for the light to come with it or to to express itself the light that we already have within us right to express itself uh it sometimes it has to come through some wounds yeah and it's very poetic right it's very poetic but it's quite uh descriptive of the impact of anything that we call it in our own material or limited judgment as pain as suffering as a wound Etc it can be what it takes to just open up and open up and and attain the truth as as he implies and and I love it because truth here then is that transcendental right spiritual truth that we should be in touch with and most of us are not unfortunately yeah so I think yeah go ahead just add my apologies that I you know following what I was saying before in of how we can aggravate or overcome um our sufferings you want the answer is in this chapter from the In Search Of Truth uh the the book she brings an example of victims of concentration camps and she she mentions you know people that have survived the the Holocaust uh in aitz for instance and where you know of course uh once they were recovered because we know the condition that they were rescued uh how they didn't allow themselves to be consumed by hatred had a very clear realization that hatred would not bring back the years the health they lost the health the loved ones and that you know remaining in that uh unforgiving stage would only aggravate their suffering they would be prolonged they would be liberated physically from the concentration camps but not emotionally and she even talk about this one person that they nicknamed him him cheerful guy right that in spite of having gone through all that that we can uh we know we are very aware of and recently I had

ally and she even talk about this one person that they nicknamed him him cheerful guy right that in spite of having gone through all that that we can uh we know we are very aware of and recently I had the chance to visit the the Concentration Camp of AIT and it it's everything true I guarantee to you I mean he continues being gentle is smiling but on the other hand she says there are those that emotionally they were so fragile that instead of trying to cling in like Victor Franco for instance right to have a a sense of Life a sense of living they started questioning God which is many of us this is how we react when we are facing challenges and suffering any kind of difficulty so this is we see the that once at one point one side we have uh you know this natural faith and optimism and and realization that we can I cannot just see that many times like we say uh your life is not that bad but there is a very bad something happening in it yeah but you take into station everything that you have in life and put it into proportion maybe it will represent 1% 10% even 50% which is a lot you still can say you know the other 50% of my life is good but we we get into the stry of uh of you know feeling miserable and aggravating our suffering with that which which means maybe sorry I but I I I keep thinking that vulnerability right just had and that insistence perhaps in in in focusing on the potentially 99% that is not in pain uh right and the 1% is in pain and we we focus on the pain only uh may speak to our lack of resilience and when I say resilience is not physical resilience resilience we're talking about uh psychological and spiritual resilience to withstand things like that that are just uh I think you mentioned earlier growing pains right it can be so many things including the area the specific area of Dr here because it can be you know psychological clinging uh at the same time I I want to justify to myself you know I suffered so much the world cannot expect anything from me or I suffered so much that the

because it can be you know psychological clinging uh at the same time I I want to justify to myself you know I suffered so much the world cannot expect anything from me or I suffered so much that the word has to give me all its love and you know that uh uh self be syndrome as well I mean we are not saying that especially for those who have gone through that they they don't have reason to be traumatized and and and and you know talking about their suffering what what we are saying is in any situation we should not uh let uh suffering Define us Define who we are Define the rest of our days because otherwise we will be empowering those that uh were the motive for our suffering I'm not going to be released it from from that and I have to break the change I love it love what you said thank you so much uh and you do want to add anything anything to that the the concept yes I I was listening to J and she remind me of Remember the movie Life I think his life is beautiful from 1997 think he won an Oscar for foreign movie because it's Italian it's exactly this rajada it's in a con concentration camp and it's the father with his uh child and the way that he interprets for the child okay he he makes up a a game or something I'm trying to remember the mov to interpret for the child for his child the little boy uh what was going on in a in a way that because it was all crazy and awful but in a way that he could uh go through the experience because the child would believe totally in the father right uh thinking that it was all a joke or not a joke but a game or something that they have to so it it's it's really beauti beautiful because it's uh in a in a sense the suffering of the father right uh he transformed it's what what J said he didn't aggravate he could have he could have gotten depressed or whatever and if he did he wouldn't be able to help his child right so he over uh um overcame the the pain and the suffering that he of course would be allowed to for the love of his uh child

ressed or whatever and if he did he wouldn't be able to help his child right so he over uh um overcame the the pain and the suffering that he of course would be allowed to for the love of his uh child right with through the love I would say of his child and um to make it something better to interpret that awful reality for the the child in a way that wouldn't traumatize the child and he gave his life for that because in the end it's not a spoiler because it's in 1997 the movie but in the end of course he gets killed but the child survives and finds the mother right from what I remember and I think it's a it goes pretty well this example with what just is saying uh we can aggravate uh in um according to our world view according from uh our perspective our interpretation of what's going on with our inner world and also of course with our outer world or we can't uh you know as Joanna is calling search for the truth calling us to do for but uh according first of all the courage of dealing with our inner truth correct so I just would like to go back to the Four Noble Truths that uh Buddha taught us all right one of the N Duo teachers spiritual teachers that we had in this world and they're all about suffering right exactly our topic of discussion today tell us what those truth are exactly and I think it's so beautiful that Joanna talks about the Buddha and she cites Buddha in this book especially in search for the truth isn't that wonderful because the the Four Noble Truths that she reminds us that the Buddha taught so it's just quickly for and people can look put in the Google and look better but but uh the first is the truth of suffering is that the suffering exists at least in our reality in this moment right of our um development and of Consciousness and the Buddha say is real and almost Universal and has many causes like loss pain sickness and things like that and the other the second is the truth of the cause of suffering according to Buddha everybody knows that because it's in all cultures

l and has many causes like loss pain sickness and things like that and the other the second is the truth of the cause of suffering according to Buddha everybody knows that because it's in all cultures that he said suffering is due to our attachments right and its desire to have and control right this things this attachment and he said it it can take many forms craving of sensual Pleasures desire for fame very much in our days uh avoid unpleasant um sensations of course we would translate in psychological terms avoiding our shadow issues right and the third is the truth of the end of suffering right that he he says because he achieved in Enlightenment uh in uh overcoming suffering and understanding suffering right so he says through of course his experience that can the suffering can be overcome uh suffering ceases when the Mind experiences complete Freedom Liberation and nonattachment of course and then the fourth is where I I think it's wonderful because I think it makes all a connection what we are saying and what Jada was saying that the truth of the path that leads to the end of suffering and when he talks about um eight the Eightfold Path that everybody knows right Vision right uh values right speech right action and goes on I'm not going to to to say all because I we want people to go and search oh so if anybody right doesn't know the eight-fold path I think it's great and I think it's great that Joanna talks about this and Jada is U actually talking in Remembering all of us that have read and um of course I think people would love to know uh and to what Jonah uh talks about this search for the truth so we are searching for the truth of why we suffer we still suffer right and um and go ahead just give to you guys back go ahead what do you think about the Buddha when we think about his life uh right u i mean he was born in such a privileged condition and completely sheltered from what was real in the world uhhuh and uh and and of course I mean it was not his fault he had a

about his life uh right u i mean he was born in such a privileged condition and completely sheltered from what was real in the world uhhuh and uh and and of course I mean it was not his fault he had a vision of life and and I mean you can only assume that everyone else is you know like very much like yourself is having the same conditions until he realized that that was not true and uh he started his pilgrimage so to say and and um not not looking for any disciples or anything but all of a sudden he was being followed because you know this is what happened with those Leaders with those so special spirits and um what a enchants me a lot is the Simplicity right because it's it's you know this is how I think we as opposed to me right that am very you know you see Jesus says uh when ask it what is the great command of The Commandments and he just say you know love God and your neighbor is yourself and comes with this realization of you know the the four noble truths that are very simple uh very easy not so easy to follow right is in the sense that we all can understand that and and bringing us to this sense of spirituality and how uh can we detach from Material life uh because I mean we're not saying that it's wrong but we cannot uh continue thinking that this is it because this is fr as he comes you know I have to acquire I have to live this experience and I have to be powerful I have I have I have have to because you know very soon it's going to come to an end so I have a deadine and I do we all do have a deadline right and this comes the frustration I still could not do that I still could not take the trips of my my dream or buy the car that I wanted or have the position that I would like like to and he says you know he this is an invitation for us to get back to the simple things and the truth and Noble things as he says that is you know as a spirit you are entitled to all spiritual wealth but do not think that the material one is going to fulfill you because when even when you acquire all

and Noble things as he says that is you know as a spirit you are entitled to all spiritual wealth but do not think that the material one is going to fulfill you because when even when you acquire all all of that is not going to to appease your pain is not going to eliminate suffering from your lives and the more you you refuse this truth the harder it will be it's very much like when we were talking about you know the aggravation right so if I refuse this Truth uh that you know being important has nothing to do with what follows your name you know if it's a PhD or non PhD or nothing you know what is important is really what we you are and this is where we find in so many people that didn't have the condition to have you know those graduations and anything bring so much wisdom to the world and we see on the other hand people that have so much knowledge but do not have wisdom wisdom yeah do not have love and are constantly the cause of pain because of the their coldness to so many others it's very very good point right uh who are we and um in in terms of the noble truths do we actually need those Acquisitions of material or credentials or whatever that we we are hanging tight to but um I yeah go ahead sometimes another equation that people very easily go through that is like okay I have lived previous lives okay and uh according to the spiritual knowledge I messed up those previous lives even more than I'm messing up now course if I'm suffering it's because I deserve so uh m we are going to look at that and say oh your suffering is because you deserve it's because you did bad things and this is one thing that um you know we find it a lot in in in spiritism in spirituality and theangel tell tells us that also in her works and especially in this one H wake up and me happy let me see if I can read here she says do not think that you suffer because you were the most object person in your spiritual past well maybe we were but it's not because of that right there there is pain that

e if I can read here she says do not think that you suffer because you were the most object person in your spiritual past well maybe we were but it's not because of that right there there is pain that elevates pain that conquers and pain that brings Redemption so at the end of the day you know even though yes we we had so many misdeeds from the past it doesn't mean that we are going to look at someone that is suffering say oh it's because this person was a bad person we don't know maybe this is in the past maybe he already you know having a sense that the only way that I have to go to to grow to grow myself as spiritual speaking is to accept more difficult challenges and this can reflect at least in the eyes of others like you know suffering sometimes we go to people say I don't know if I could live the kind of life that you have and they say well what is wrong with my life it's okay because it is for them this is what they have inra this their mission you see so I think never go there you see never Point your finger not even to yourself and absolutely point that it doesn't matter you know you are here there uh okay the sufferings here the pain the the challenges but the is we are going to succeed can I just bring something that uh Joanna brought to us when she references Buddhism right so Buddhism as well as spiritism they they really teach us about the immortal soul and with that Immortal soul that immortality of the Spirit uh we are confronting the cycle birth physical death new existence with a new reincarnation and with that cyclical notion of this cycle um we end up having to deal with this new conditions right so we are reborn in a new physical body and that physical body manifest our previous choices maybe our actions our thought processes previous experiences etc etc and if we think like that from a a chain right where the chain of events there's a there's a historical in my mind a a historical uh component to it but there's a chain of events where an action causes a reaction that causes new

om a a chain right where the chain of events there's a there's a historical in my mind a a historical uh component to it but there's a chain of events where an action causes a reaction that causes new actions and so on so forth almost if not linear but also almost as if it was a domino effect of our choice so can we maybe talk about uh we are today the result of our past and if we are that because we believe we are I believe we are how do we stop suffering so much right what can we do perhaps to address our past um but uh really have a optimistic positive view of our future regarding our pains and suffering can I tell you a dream of a person that maybe can help understand can help people and then uh we can see what J has to say about that um but first in this concept as we are talking about Buddhism I think it um you know when the Buddha was telling us about suffering and talks about the samsar so the cycle of um birth and rebirth and death and all and but also uh he talks about um these experiences in a sense being like an illusion and um I think we have some difficulty understanding because it's a a philosophy and a religion from the uh East right and we have a very logical and scientific mind in the west and a very extroverted as Jung said way of thinking as a collective and the the the eastern part of the world especially Buddhism Hinduism and the spiritualist uh religions and philosophies from the East they have a very introverted way of thinking as Yung says so it's kind of our opposite it that's why um he says we some somebody that is born in the west will never be able to think exactly as uh people in the East and the same goes the other way around but as the con conscious and unconscious and in this world of Duality we have to get as close as possible and find a balance that's why I think it's so beautiful that Janna talks about uh Buddhism uh and that it's coming from uh the East right and um and in the sense I think Buddha was talking about the ego here

d a balance that's why I think it's so beautiful that Janna talks about uh Buddhism uh and that it's coming from uh the East right and um and in the sense I think Buddha was talking about the ego here when he talks about our attachments right because it's the ego that attached to things but he was leading people as J said like a spiritual leader that it's interesting and I think it's great that just talks about Jesus also in a sense that it's a spiritual leader for many people in the west right uh that uh they always uh think uh say something or a lot of things actually um very very deep that talk to our the inner part of our souls and at the same time in a in a simple way so that uh everybody can understand and in many ages right but I think what's really um so this I think it's perfect as just had a pick this point at this and I think this is also uh great that the Buddha when he talks about the eight-fold path uh and I think that's what Joanna also cites the buddham because it's a path to enlightenment and when we are talking about Enlightenment then we really get out of uh the illusion of the ego it's illusion for the ego right it's a a reality because the Buddha says well re suffering is a reality for us here right but for the spirit that is what uh we are talking here for the spirit not necessarily because it depends on the on the the level of spiritual knowledge that we have to see that something that looks at this moment for the ego as suffering actually is a path for our higher Consciousness that we uh you guys are talking about so when he talks about the eight-fold path he's um in my from my point of view in in psychological terms because I'm not specialist in Buddhism at all but he's um giving a path to this non Duality when the ego kind of okay in this life because it's it's this process happens here right when we are here but the ego can really connect to the higher self that it's non Duo our spirit when it's uh when it's um uh more developed spiritually speaking

's it's this process happens here right when we are here but the ego can really connect to the higher self that it's non Duo our spirit when it's uh when it's um uh more developed spiritually speaking we talk about um as jeles the light teachers let's say the higher uh spirits that come to help us uh here in this experience um so when we are talk about the the spiritual Realms the higher level of spirits we are talking about a nonu reality where time and space doesn't mean the same as for us here in this material world so I think to to have an idea of that we are talking about suffering but from a dual point of view spirit and matter and when the spirit is reincarnated in matter well uh when when the the child the mother is delivering the child and the child screams and all the doctors slap okay scream breathe you have to but yeah it's just an a metaphor that okay we come crying to this world but as just said not all babies some babies won't uh cry or scream and they will smile or whatever I have seen this happening uh in hospitals when we are learning to deliver babies so it's something really interesting that not all of us as aada and new Mara were saying we look things in this some of us maybe and certainly a lot of children that are coming in this a in this time of Spiritual Awakening that humanity is going through uh are coming already with this knowledge of uh you know of more enlightened Souls let's say are coming to help us we see in small children it's wonderful and you you see some dreams of small children wow you say where is this Spirit coming from right so I think it's the Buddha was telling was helping uh us to see that is a path for this noner reality and going out of this illusion of the ego and that Joanna is calling our attention all the time all the time and the dream that I remember just as an example it's a beautiful dream that a person that has a lot of um troubles with the inner child the inner child was very traumatized very hurt and um so she uh she was crying a lot

remember just as an example it's a beautiful dream that a person that has a lot of um troubles with the inner child the inner child was very traumatized very hurt and um so she uh she was crying a lot during many sessions and thinking this world uh makes us suffer a lot and that people don't recognize the good in each other things like that and U okay the process goes on therapeutically and all the stuff and also it helps a lot that she had uh spiritual knowledge actually she was a spiritist and she worked in in a spiritual center but she was in she was very connected to spiritual knowledge but she okay in the ego and the the inner child she had this trauma okay and um when she started uh practicing what we are talking now uh and it helped a lot for her ego that she had the spirous knowledge and what you're saying Mara this brother view but she still had to do the ego work to connect with that's wonderful that Joanna is bringing this to spiritist right knowledge remembering as that we have to do the the inner work to real connect as just said through the heart with spiritist and spiritual knowledge so she um when she did that and she understood that she was suffering because she kind of left her inner child alone right she was trying to deny or to not remember this is very frequently um this happens very frequently with all of us tried the ego tried to defend itself against you know the hurts that we have from past traumas from this life or from other lives but when she understood that she had a really beautiful dream that she was uh walking uh in a city uh with a hand in hand with a little girl and then she was looking at a lot of drawings in the city and she said and she was feeling like I don't think I like these drawings they look like Halloween drawings you know she told me like a like grayish and black and white or something you know and something frightening she said but and but the inner child was she was holding her hand okay I said it's the inner child but the

ld me like a like grayish and black and white or something you know and something frightening she said but and but the inner child was she was holding her hand okay I said it's the inner child but the okay the small child the small girl the little girl and then the little girl was very okay because she was holding her hand and then they they came near to the drawings and she decided to look at them and when she looked at the drawings she said oh actually I like them I think they are very pretty and they colorful so when I was when she was looking at she understood that when she was defending herself and looking from the distance and um and she thought they were ugly or frightening but when she got closer she understood they were beautiful they are they were colorful and that's the nice part the child had drawn them isn't that great and she understood that without the child speaking just because she was holding hands with the so the suffering is U the the symptoms and the suffering at that moment it was like a numinous dream a dream that connected her with herself and she could overcome a lot of the suffering because she said that it was um she understood it was um creation of her past traumas but it was also the the way for her to connect to the light that was within her because um that uh suffering those traumas from childhood uh brought understanding that she could heal herself I think this is so beautiful it's what the the Buddha and what Joanna is asking us to understand and that you guys were talking about what do you think about that I love it uh and roomy right roomy spoke that so many years ago so I think we we have a a wide range of wisdom uh back 2500 Years to you know 40 years ago 50 years ago when Joanna brought us her her work um I want to know um if you don't mind unless you want to say something else but I just wanted to maybe summarize a little bit we we talked about Buddha Buddhism right and spiritual spiritualism and how they they bring so much uh to address suffering

want to say something else but I just wanted to maybe summarize a little bit we we talked about Buddha Buddhism right and spiritual spiritualism and how they they bring so much uh to address suffering but also to alleviate perhaps our myth that uh we all have to suffer so uh really good to hear that um look out the four noble truths by Buddha right and and he the Buddha will talk about life and a um life being characterized by by suffering or we can call it dissatisfaction right frustration distress um the cause of suffering which is really we mentioned earlier clinging right clinging to attachments to to to this um this need this desire to have things uh trying to hold on to things that we know are really ephemeral impermanent and they really should not be the cause of our suffering and uh and of course we can only be free when we let them go and find this path that we talked about the Eightfold Path the middleway path that will lead us to completely end our suffering so uh this is not a Buddhist lesson or episode or class but I love that we're able to to bring that great wisdom uh to all of us and uh I want to say um just offer to Jada into an do you have any parting comments before we go go ahead just yeah just saying that you know the good news is that knowing all that knowing that we are in control we that we are the ones Paving our way right now uh I think you know the more m mindful we are in relation to our thoughts and actions the more we will uh guarantee not to finding so much suffering in our future absolutely thank you J an any parting thoughts well actually I just wanted to say that um Joanna uh says in this beautiful book that emotional health and psychological meaning help help us when we really apply ourselves to uh it um help us full atonement with the imod day which means uh you know F attonement to our perception and understanding of God the Transcendent one and the sacredness within ourselves so I think this is beautiful and I thank you so much for um

day which means uh you know F attonement to our perception and understanding of God the Transcendent one and the sacredness within ourselves so I think this is beautiful and I thank you so much for um being here with you discussing all of that oh absolutely thank you thank you J thank you an thank you who is here with us um in this past few minutes together we hope to see you again next time and uh I appreciate the opportunity to discuss if we really have to suffer thanks everyone byebye