Ep 85 - Exploring Anxiety with Freud, Jung and Joanna de Angelis

hello everyone welcome all of you to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to Better Life discussion I'm your host Marcia tro and with me are two of the most important people oh I cannot say that because everybody else is important but with me are are my dear friends Dr Na fona and J of corn goat welcome I don't know if you want to say hello to everyone who's here hello everyone hello Mar hi hello everyone good to be back yes it is so good to be back and uh if this is the first time you're watching our podcast this I'd love to say thank you uh Welcome to our program and please note that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna d'angeles we're here to offer a safe space to confront and compare and most important expand Concepts from two lenses a spiritual and psychological lens to bring insides and sometimes even real world advice or examples for us to to better understand and I just wanted to say to all of you that I am quite fascinated with the series of discussions we've had about uh anxiety we started with oh General defin definitions uh we we talked about Tools in our toolbox we even went on to talk about what did Joanna deangel Joanna deangel say to us tell us about anxiety and we went through a comprehensive it was quite a match between me and Jada if she could go on with some examples or or quotes from Joanna and and give us a better explanation she did a great job uh um just check our earlier episode for that if you're interested as well but anyways we're here we're back and uh wanted to continue that discussion on anxiety but today we're going to do a bit of a cross reference um how is this topic anxiety seen or discussed or presented to us by Sigman Freud car gust of Jung and of course Joanna deangeles we focused a lot on their spiritual side beforehand so today we have our resident expert to provide a more scientific reference to us hanging there I think this would be a really great episode before we start our conversation Jay I would like to

rehand so today we have our resident expert to provide a more scientific reference to us hanging there I think this would be a really great episode before we start our conversation Jay I would like to recognize the organizations that are sponsoring our program thank you TV manand C the United States spiritual Federation the international spiritual Council and Amy Brazil and for all of you please hit subscribe if you haven't already done so if you'd like to understand more check our Channel www.spirit.com or the spirit or Essence of a particular period of of time uh a period of history and uh we can Define that as a spirit or mood of a generation or a point in time for example I don't know many of individuals talking about the zist of uh Germany pre World War Two right what was going on that time but could I say that the zy guys of our time which means our prevalent ideas beliefs and even behaviors is one of perhaps a lot of anxiety on one hand and perhaps on the other hand this incredible uh need and awareness that we must grow spiritually right if I think about it and uh I would say Jo one of the Angeles will perhaps confirm the suspicion when she says that anxiety is a symptom of this deeper existential crisis that we're going through so let's go ahead spend the next few minutes together exploring what did Freud say if at all about anxiety what did Yung say and uh if what they say they said uh maybe uh contradicted or supported the the statement shall we so for both of you how can we talk about uh anxiety without a definition can we perhaps bring a definition uh from Joan from Jung or from Freud what' you say so should we start well first of all it's great to be here with you again and with everybody that is listening to us so I think Mara started with the big picture the spiritual dimension of the psych right and the Zas so the spirit of our times uh we live in a very anxious times we can say that um because I think we live in a paradox we are in a verge of a big shift in Consciousness Joanna is

sych right and the Zas so the spirit of our times uh we live in a very anxious times we can say that um because I think we live in a paradox we are in a verge of a big shift in Consciousness Joanna is always asking us to remember that we need to F to learn about ourselves to I think we have talked about in one of the episodes about um Yung sentence the world hangs on a thin thread or something like that yeah and this because of the psych that we are um actually our choices what we do in our with ourselves in our in the life in our life and collectively we reflect in in the whole so we are co-creator of our own reality right beautifully said beautifully said yes Yung said that um we have talked a little bit about that right Mar and it's very important because Jan is bringing us this um this zust I think of this time our time that is the Paradox between a very materialistic world right that search for pleasure pleasure of the body pleasure of the ego the needs of the ego and kind kind of um well people kind of forget when they are so materialistic and drive um you know the an answer to the this drives of materialistic pool right I need this and I need that um so it's a very very narrow world view right because uh then I view the world and myself and everybody else as a person and that has needs and that it's going to live this life and everything ends in the end and okay so I will have the most pleasure that I can have in this life and don't bother with anything else so but at the same time we are in a spiritual awakening because now we have a lot of spiritual information for instance with the spiritist knowledge and many spiritualist religions and thoughts and philosophies right people are looking for meaning meaning yes and um purpose in life so this is a spirituality to look for meaning and purpose this is the path let's say in psychological terms yeah and at the so we are in a paradox we are in a crisis because there are two strong forces in our Psych in the collective unconscious

g and purpose this is the path let's say in psychological terms yeah and at the so we are in a paradox we are in a crisis because there are two strong forces in our Psych in the collective unconscious right so this B materialistic and and very ego egotistic worldview and at the same time A Spiritual Awakening wow this is this is a crisis and Yung and also Joanna say that we need this kind of Crisis it's almost like this tension right this polarization that pushes and pull you into different directions yes yes that's exactly so uh in psychological terms it just remind me of um Jesus in the cross right that we say psychologically it's a very powerful uh image because there are forces that um pull you towards different um um directions right and you have to hold it so he was also giving an example of how we arecent to balance and to hold everything that keep keep us apart let's say and so to be able to develop another Consciousness okay so that's why I think the Zas of our time um have all this anxiety that and I brought you a a case that I remember an example yeah but well I don't know should I say before well I asked you to to Define uh anxiety but let's back track uh everyone here I would like to have give us an example okay okay I I'll give the example first because I think it's it's interesting for people to you know to we know if we haven't felt something like this then somebody from the family or friends yes so we should Define I think not only in books but we this Zas that you talked Marcel this Spirit of the time it's very important that we don't stuck only to you know to the books and to the definitions but U intellectually speaking but we connect to the definitions let's say that uh will show what happens to us through the the intelligence of the heart you know if I don't feel it doesn't matter how I think or how much I have read about the subject I won't change that's the sad reality we need the mind we need to read and study but we need the intelligence

ow if I don't feel it doesn't matter how I think or how much I have read about the subject I won't change that's the sad reality we need the mind we need to read and study but we need the intelligence of the heart to discern to change attitude that's I'm I'm giving you a spoiler because yung's thought about anxiety and this Neurosis um that um give gives us anxiety as a a symptom uh it's all about changing attitudes this is a spoiler but then that's example so an example first yes uh because it's a synchronicity and that uh we were we would be talking about that and then I remember um some years ago so um around the 35 year old uh uh woman right that um told me that she had like panic attacks because that's the worst of anxiety right when it turns to panic attacks or okay and okay that's classical I'm going to die because my heart is so you know is racing and I think I'm having a a heart attack and I have to rush to the emergency room in the hospital and of course the cardiologist no is everything all right with your heart oh don't you want to see a psychologist or a psychiatrist and sometimes people get mad but but but I'm feeling my heart and I have I'm going to die and all this stuff well but the clinical exam and the Machine say you are right so what happens in this moments that you know that you feel you you are so afraid and you you you are like certain and your mind is telling you that you're are going to die because of a heart attack or something like that so that was her main concern and it it was and then I asked her uh how long this had been going on and since she was like 12 years old like more than 20 years yeah you know more than 20 me to hear that an that someone has been going through this for for so long but yes it affects so many of us right but go ahead yeah so many of us so everything um like study job relationships you know get impact the impact of you know you limit your life because you're not going to be able you have to kind of try to control the

ah so many of us so everything um like study job relationships you know get impact the impact of you know you limit your life because you're not going to be able you have to kind of try to control the triggers that you know and you kind of don't know very well what the triggers are because there's unconscious stuff right that we are not dealing with that uh and and so okay but then she comes to me she's more mature now 35 going to 40 that's something important because then the ego kind of kind of say okay so if I have to face some stuff some something unconscious because I have been so many times to the emergency room and I'm seeing a psychiatrist and I'm I'm taking some medicine but anyway my life is uh you know it's very limited because I'm afraid that I'm going to feel and I feel anxious anyway I can control the panic attacks because they are the worst part of the anxiety but the anxiety is there is a symptom right and symptoms as you says are the path for the inner they are it's the psych telling us something we have to listen to the symptoms not fight them try to oh I just want to be fine I don't want to feel anything okay nobody wants to you know to feel this kind of symptoms but if we don't listen to the sin if we don't try to see what uh the psychist telling us uh it's trying to tell us through the symptoms right and the psy remember it's myself my unconscious it's me it's not somebody else's um stuff or issues right it's me it's it's my unconscious so okay what happens is that when I just make a make it short for you just to have an idea when you go to the person's Story one of the first thing that I all because I deal with it I always ask is about uh the person uh person's faith and spirituality and if the person has a religion okay and what happened to this person um she kind of protected herself um of philosophical and spiritual questionings but then you always have to because nowadays as I told you before and if somebody has never heard about that the the researchers in the

protected herself um of philosophical and spiritual questionings but then you always have to because nowadays as I told you before and if somebody has never heard about that the the researchers in the psychiatrist field and psychology field are showing that a person that develops um her or his own um spirituality is more mature it's more resilient and has more tools let to face you know challenges in life psychological uh physical challenges okay dis illnesses or things like that so you have to investigate this dimension of the psych because it's so important right and it can be very very self-serving right I will develop my sense of religiosity spirituality because it will make me better be as it may it is a very interesting correlation uh between that spirituality and a sense of comfort including dealing with some of those uh fear-based uh pathologies that may include a panic disorder right or or pathological uh way of uh anxiety so I think this is very important for us to to to Really hone in um it it's not just words it it there there are correlations and I think it's a very important statement here an yes great great Mara yeah because we we have to remember that symptoms uh they are also of um a ways that the self capital S the higher self because Jonna say is not is our spirit right is trying to send message through to the ego right so that the ego can understand that it's there is a dynamic in the unconscious that uh it has to pay attention to it and it's very important to the development of the personality and to and to you know this task that we have assigned to do here in this in this life right M so and so this person had closed let's say this kind of conversation and had uh inner conversation let's say and had uh closed herself to search for meaning and purpose that we that we were talking uh in the beginning so when you go in the in the story of the person you know in the past then look look at that what I I remember this case because it was very I think it's a very nice example when you

in the beginning so when you go in the in the story of the person you know in the past then look look at that what I I remember this case because it was very I think it's a very nice example when you go to her past she was the second child of a mother the uh her brother was six year older than her and the brother um was there was some problem in the delivered so he was um he had um paralysis cerebral paralysis right so he couldn't talk he couldn't walk and the mother uh had to take care of him like almost 24 hours a day so the mother decided after six years to have another child and she was born so she was born actually we could say without a mother and she was raised by the Grandmother Mother's mother but the look at that and then you can connect with Joanna and what you guys had been talking the grandmother okay who raised her right after her birth okay had uh she had um a daughter the grandmother so the ma the mother's sister her aunt right that was 30 years old more or less 30 and had already one child and she died suddenly from what I remember was something like um a stroke in had you know something vascular or whatever uh and she died suddenly so it was the the grandmother was grieving her uh her baby daughter yeah yeah when uh this um uh this person this lady was born okay so she raises uh the granddaughter talking about the her that um that daughter all the time so she's at a crossroad right between kind of taking the place of the brother yes and now the aunt oh my goodness so she brings life to this family but she also comes right after a lot of uh loss and death right yeah and she was Raising she was raised um by let's say the mother who couldn't take care of her and the grand especially the grandmother who never overcame the loss of her baby daughter so she like um introject uh injected it's um it's a kind of um put inside her identify in a certain way with her dad Aunt like she needed to and she needed to be better she needed to uh try to make the grandmother happy and her mother happy

s um it's a kind of um put inside her identify in a certain way with her dad Aunt like she needed to and she needed to be better she needed to uh try to make the grandmother happy and her mother happy and everybody happy but she totally forgot about herself right and uh what happens can you imagine the level of anxiety if you are the person that you have to bring happiness to people that cannot feel happy by themselves right there's incred responsibility don't you think to yes to uh consciously or unconsciously to to have that projected upon her to be the conduit for happiness when we know happiness doesn't happen like this no it's not like this and she couldn't so she was like without knowing without being conscious uh she kind of her we also often have talk here about our personal myth right so our sacred story as Joanna would say our purpose in reincarnate in this life of course uh of course we have to help each other of course we have to learn how to love ourselves and learn how to love others but there are tasks evolutionary tasks that only us only each one of us can do to us let's say right nobody can do you know in our place we are here to learn to evolve and this is uh something that we have to do and so this uh this woman didn't have like inner peace or in Inner Space and even inner the time to grow and to uh to be connected to herself and to see about her own needs so she grew up having to make everybody happy which never would happen because people were not feeling allowed the mothers let's say feeling allowed to be happy because they needed to um well the understanding why we had some uh we can have a child that um with the illnesses or even a child it's very difficult of course a child that dies before what for us a feel as you know before the time the right time when we are old but this happens to everyone in every family so the the mother has to go of course it's going to go undergo a very deep uh mourning periods but all of us and I know that the pain is really

we are old but this happens to everyone in every family so the the mother has to go of course it's going to go undergo a very deep uh mourning periods but all of us and I know that the pain is really deep but all of us have to find this meaning and the purpose and remember that there are other people and other children that depend on us right yeah so but my point was that the panic attacks were like I cannot be happy how am I going to be happy if I come from women that are like couldn't have a life couldn't fulfill their purpose in life or whatever or at least she felt like this and couldn't be happy themselves so it's my mother my grandmother always said always you know word with others so I have to I if I don't pay atten I will identify with this story that's not mine it because it's okay can be my mother my grandmother but it's theirs it's not mine so um Yung let's come to definition of anxiety yeah yes because then it's easier right so you and quite frankly sorry for speaking over you and quite frankly this story puts a really interesting context not only to any patient not just this woman that the context becomes very clear to us her inability to be happy right which triggers a anxiety uh for many many years in panic attacks and it's really born out of something that can be seen spiritually and psychologically but I think we can really extrapolate to most of us right yeah it's it's easy for me to to say that love to hear from you on you and perhaps just that I'm GNA ask you if you can bring me uh from Sigman Freud's perspective but go ahead anah tell tell us what does Yung um tell us about anxiety and and how it uh really helps us understand this case so because Yung um well I live to Jada to talk a little bit about fraud but you can see we are going from the big picture Joanna to the small picture and for me I'm sorry about some fraudin that can be listening to us but it's okay because it's it's a like Freud put like the first stone right when he talks about the ego about the

the small picture and for me I'm sorry about some fraudin that can be listening to us but it's okay because it's it's a like Freud put like the first stone right when he talks about the ego about the repressed um contents in the unconscious but he talked about only the personal unconscious right and and so that's that would be the first um the first stone in the building but Jung he talks about anxiety more like um an existential his his concern because he went deeper in the psych in the collective unconscious where he found uh the concept that we have been talking about about the self about what we could call the higher self and Jonna calls the spirit so but anyways he talks his concerns were more existential and also dealing with the process of individuation right of this development here in this life so um neur the anxiety would come from this confrontation from the uh UNC the Consciousness and the unconscious but in a deeper way than Freud uh in the beginning realized and also like in the when would be an imbalance between the ego as in this example that I brought to you and the the view of the ego let's say of a situation of uh itself and the self that knows better because it's the center and also the totality of the psych but let's hear about J yeah and I love J if you if you if you maybe ref but it's this spiritual much broader view Joanna d'angeles and then it goes deeper into the the ego and the self with Jung what would Sigman Freud say about anxiety just out okay putting you on the spot right reflecting up of everything that brought to us and bringing this life Cas it it's um I mean we feel sorry for everyone that is going through the same things but at the same time uh it's so important to share stories like this one because many times we feel like we are the only fish in the sea right that there are things that are only happening to us uh many times we on top of being anxious you we will TR go crazy trying to find validation for why do I feel so anxious what would be the reason and of

t there are things that are only happening to us uh many times we on top of being anxious you we will TR go crazy trying to find validation for why do I feel so anxious what would be the reason and of course uh uh we have a a shortterm memory most of the time we are just thinking about the the the events that have happened in in the the recent past and when we should be taking everything into consideration not only in relation to this lifetime but uh to previous Incarnation as we when we are talking about spirituality we are always considering that and and as we see in in this case I mean the how hard it her journey was because she didn't know you know and it's very much like U uh Freud talks about it Joanna d'angeles talks about it you know the child hood traumas and and I mean since we are a child and going to those traumas of course we do not know how to to deal with them and later on for us to rationalize on top of things oh maybe I'm I feel those emotions uh you know I feel this way because when I was zero years two years one four years five years I was expected to behave in a certain way and of course not having the complete remembrance because when we come to an adult and say tell me about the five years first first five years of your life many of us do not to go back go back uh before you know being a five year old right we will glimpses of things and I think that you know this is so great and that you you brought about because this is when we need help we need professional help we need the therapy to you know because I I can only imagine in this case uh how good she felt in knowing that there was a reason for that okay I have to deal with that I went through the pain I'll have to go through the pain of you know um rebooting right but now I know that there is a reason because I think the worst failing is not knowing yeah and and and this is how you know Joanna deangel says in terms of you know the anxieties this disconnection between the ego and the self right uh when uh Freud himself

worst failing is not knowing yeah and and and this is how you know Joanna deangel says in terms of you know the anxieties this disconnection between the ego and the self right uh when uh Freud himself talks about uh uh having to face what he calls a realistic anxiety that is related to things that happen in the real world or neurotic anxiety that comes from unconscious fears and and I think in many cases I mean although she was having this uh symptoms because of a something that really happened to her real world for many for many years it seemed to be just a neurotic anxiety because she she couldn't bring to mind to the conscious at the conscious level that there was a reason for that and uh I know uh I I I think that you know many parents Educators right now may feel very anxious and nervous about everything thing because oh my God what did I do with my children with you know my students everyone that we have an impac in life because we didn't know better but but you see in the same way that we perhaps contributed to some of the traumas that this you know our children or these other have present nowadays we can now that we are more enlightened especially you know taking into consideration uh the life of the immortal spirit and uh understanding that we are much more than just this life and that we bring all this baggage with us if things that happen in this life is impacting us of course what happened before and this is when we are going to have no recollection at all that it's not we have lived them with our physical brain so you really have to dig deeper and uh that's why um we see that where religion is spirituality comes to place and I was thinking about you know the studies that have been conducted in the past few years by Harvard by dukee University we have Dr Harold Kik that wrote that beautiful book about about religion and health and so many cases where you know you may have a p a Freud's perspective and saying religious is nothing right but the numbers don't

d Kik that wrote that beautiful book about about religion and health and so many cases where you know you may have a p a Freud's perspective and saying religious is nothing right but the numbers don't lie and that the research is showing that somehow they may not know how to explain it but somehow people that have some kind of Faith understanding even you know by thinking I'm so much more than just that and I will on how they have H more resilience and even be more open to seek help yes because the case that Ana said she was exhausted of going just to the doctor's to hospitals and and having always the same results you know there is nothing wrong with your heart oh my God that's a great news right that you have to address so I I I think it's this such a fascinating topic and it is it is a lot of res I I think hope in ourselves as well it is normal we have those emotions but we have to De with them we don't have to live with them when they are a source of suffering to us yeah so I'm going to Pivot a little bit our conversation today because uh I heard earlier of course um anayi is a Yun therapist so her she favors yung's uh role into our discussion today so but you mentioned um anay about the conscience right so uh Sigman Freud brings to uh with um the work that he has brought uh on as the founder of psycho uh psychology right he brings to us the notion of a personal unconscious and of course Yung goes further uh and brings on the idea of the collective unconscious can we perhaps talk about uh uh how can we discuss anxiety from that perspective the personal and Collective unconscious what are the uh what are the other perhaps even other uh you know thoughts uh in in in with researchers and and um uh theorists on that as well anything on on that that you guys can talk about well actually Mara you talked about um zyus right the spirit of time and also just start of remember um the very important um questions of the the the spiritual Realms and um What U connecting to what Joanna was saying and

talked about um zyus right the spirit of time and also just start of remember um the very important um questions of the the the spiritual Realms and um What U connecting to what Joanna was saying and of course everybody uh knew just a joke that oh since I'm a young I as just started to talk about fraud I did that I did that right that is terrible I'm joking because I have we need I studied a lot of frud of course and and it's it's not only a joke I said oh great that Marca call decided to talk about but uh because Freud also talks about anxiety because of the repress material and about the sexual drives and this and that everybody knows that nowadays and it's not so much of stuff because we we are in another Century in terms of the repressed sexuality we we don't have this kind of repression as in the 19th century when he was um uh observing patients and things like that but um in the Zas right and the spirit of times of this anxious anxi all this anxiety and yeah the anxious Spirit let's say and I think it's great that you ask because I'll just read a sentence for you is that when Yung talks about fraud and psychoanalysis okay ah wonderful yeah he says um the outbreak of the neurosis and anxiety is one of the biggest symptom and anxiety disorders and all that so when it talks about Neurosis we can say he's talking about anx about anxiety too so the outbreak of the Neurosis it not is not just a matter of chance as a rule uh of chance as a rule it is most critical it is usually the moment when a new psychological adjustment a new adaptation is demanded so you know he's saying it's not all something that is going to happen for whatever reason and well I have something in my unconscious only that I okay this as um Jus was talking and this was something great that frud uh identified about the the the inner child and the the CH the child H traumas right that we have to acknowledge them we have to work them they were sometimes cause of a lot of uh Shadow issues right our shadows like jealousy hate and

ner child and the the CH the child H traumas right that we have to acknowledge them we have to work them they were sometimes cause of a lot of uh Shadow issues right our shadows like jealousy hate and things like that butung says yes but we have to go further because what is this new um psychological adjustment a new adaptation that is demand that the Neurosis is demanding so we could um see this in an individual lens right when I need a new attitude a new uh adaptation but when Yung says that it's not only about adaptation to the outside world it's adaptation especially to the inner world right because it's from there that the symptoms is coming the the symbol the symptoms we can also as we are saying uh look at them as symbolic of a message that the higher self is trying to give to the ego right this is quite beautiful thank you thank you so much for sharing this is quite quite beautiful because when we when we talk about adaptation uh in my mind it's always the ego um pushing us or triggering US driving us to adapt to the material world right this egoic construct that must be quote unquote successful to adapt to respond to the demands the exterior world but when you're saying that the ego also responds to to that inner demands um it's quite interesting for all of us to reflect upon don't you think yes to talk about Freud that's awesome IUD he saw religion as being a collective Neurosis that provided temporary relief from anxiety But ultimately hindered true psychological growth and I have to say that I partially agree with him yeah because uh we know that there are forms of worship that alienates people from society and the advances of science so when we are talking here about faith spirituality we are talking talking about you know uh this being completely in sync in tune with uh uh with science so we are talking science and spirituality and this is why you know our podcast spirituality psychology and spirituality is all about reason faith and in this case as we know that at his time he was

e so we are talking science and spirituality and this is why you know our podcast spirituality psychology and spirituality is all about reason faith and in this case as we know that at his time he was the byproduct of religions that were very uh radical in their Concepts and so people would say oh just pray to God and and everything is going to be okay I'm anxious but if I go and pray the rosary or if I go to the temple or whatever so uh like we know today those that there are forms of uh you know worship that unfortunately will prevent us from seeking relief from seeking the right treatment so in this sense I think of course he was absolutely radical in his position because he couldn't see a way out of it like Yung saw uh but if uh we are taking his words for some of religious representations of today he's right because then you know I'm masking um my symptoms um what is happening to me because this cannot be so God has to help me etc etc I think you got my point and thank you Freud for your no it's great that just had a you brought this because it's exactly um frud uh concerning religion we cannot say that everything that he said because okay he was like radical saying that religion was a a Neurosis shared neurosis uh obsessive compulsive in a certain way Neurosis uh but uh of course he was talking of about people that use religion and fanaticals for instance are people that use religion um to disguise let's say so that people can understand disguise other drives uh so in this point of course uh it is neurotic you know this kind of drive towards religion but you said something really important because it of course he couldn't see the whole picture that when y comes in and as Mara brought the the the question about the collective unconscious so what we know is that not so much religious because religion can be like a cultural or family you know um way of connecting to the sacred but spirituality in a sense that we were talking about meaning and purpose right so if I put my psychic

us because religion can be like a cultural or family you know um way of connecting to the sacred but spirituality in a sense that we were talking about meaning and purpose right so if I put my psychic energy the libido in a in a religion in um because I'm disguising let's say other drives like sexual drive and things like that that I cannot deal with then of course it's neurotic but if uh if I can like this energy I use this energy this psychic energy to develop my spirituality then we are talking about a whole other issue right and that's the spiritual awakening that it's happening to a lot of people that we were talking in the beginning so I will just connect everything because I know we are coming to the end yes and say that what Mara said it's very important because in the sense when we do the inner work when we understand anxiety and other psychological and psychiatric symptoms right as a uh asking our self capital S our higher self asking or calling our attention to a inner Dynamic psychic Dynamic that I have to pay attention to grow and to fill the purpose of the self in this life what I've come here to learn right so this all this psychic energy uh comes free from that Neurosis that's why Yung was saying and can help me find a new path in life and if I do that that's the process of IND individuation in a sense then in collectively I'm helping everybody do the same that's the spiritual awakening so that's why in a psychological l so that's why you says and I quote a wholehearted dedication to life is what he said uh about a new attitude of the ego and which would make the powerful he's talking about the need of a new attitude right when I feel that I'm being neurotic and okay this is not a heart attack I have to pay attention to my inner world uh inner world so he says that which makes this new attitude the powerful urge to develop our own personality an imperative Duty he says so I have to pay attention and and I it I have an obligation with myself with My

he says that which makes this new attitude the powerful urge to develop our own personality an imperative Duty he says so I have to pay attention and and I it I have an obligation with myself with My Soul Purpose to develop my own personality and this means to pay attention to my symptoms in a way that we are talking now to discover to open the channel of conversation with my inner world if I do that I can help the collective because I'm creating to myself A New Path of Spiritual Development of maturity of higher Consciousness as Joan jangel asks us to do and then I help the collective if I don't do that I'm not helping the collective I don't know if I answered you Mara you did it did beautifully and and and uh I I think this really brings us a a a really good closure about what we wanted to do today which is that a comparison between Joanna Yung Freud and it's very interesting because if you think about janah d'angeles she she offers quite comprehensive yet unique perspective on anxiety right and in her books for example the integral human being where she she really talks about that inte integral uh integrated right human being but in doing so she's bringing a spiritual and psychological insights that are quite complimentary including uh complimentary to the theories of Freud Yung and even others in modern Psychiatry so I I believe this is really interesting for all of us to better uh dive deeper into this subject um let's remove any taboo that may exist on disgust and anxiety that's a that's the zist of our time that so many of us are dealing with fear anxiety neurosis and in many cases also uh panic attacks or panic disorder so let's all be courageous and uh the Courage the big courage of all for all of us is to have the courage to go within look at ourselves and resolve some of those conflicts that may be apparent or not thank you thank you Jus thank you anay thank you who is here with us watching our podcast our program and we'll see you next time bye