Ep 73 - The Origins of Suffering

hi everyone welcome to the psychology in spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Marcano and with me is yudi Castro who is a clinical psychologist and he's also a spiritist like me he's a member of the conscious living spiritous group in North Miami in Florida thank you for being here with us but uh yudi um if um you are this is the first time for you anyone else in the audience watching this program please note that our weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna d'angeles and they're here to offer you and me a safe space to confront compare correlate and expand spirituality Concepts from a psychological lens we'd love to uh use this as a conduit to bring insights actionable tips and any advice to help you and I lead a better life today's program sponsored by manando Cino the United States Spirits Federation the international spiritist Council and Amy Brazil yudi I was thinking before we started this conversation today about two very different figures in the Christian uh Faith the Apostle St Paul right the Apostle Paul to us St Paul famously said that suffering produces resistance resistance produces character and character produces Faith very interesting thought that he brings to us which links suffering and Faith well let's bring something closer to our day-to-day life for uh anyone else there because um I was also thinking and this is very interesting but um I had incredible incredible opportunity several years ago to meet Billy Jean King bjk right uh several years ago and for those of you who do not know her she is the U very very famous American tennis player she won 39 Grand slim titles she is a an advocate uh for gender equality and has been a real Pioneer in that social justice Arena she is mostly famous there's a movie actually not so long ago that was aired about the 1973 when she was only 29 that she won the quote unquote Battle of the Sexes which was a match between her a woman and Bobby rigs but but she wrote a book right and uh uh the title is pressure is

the 1973 when she was only 29 that she won the quote unquote Battle of the Sexes which was a match between her a woman and Bobby rigs but but she wrote a book right and uh uh the title is pressure is a privilege and uh this book came about the fact that she often said that to herself right and there is a lot of wisdom in in this you know this four words pressure is a privilege can you imagine your the the weight of expectations that perhaps could Crush anyone but it didn't Crush her right and so she kept saying if you have a lot of pressure it's because there's an opportunity that comes along in her book of the same title it was published in 2008 and I'm going to read this so that we can all Savor her words she says in in one of the chapters the moments of great pressure in your life speaking in public inter viewing for big job or even the school of your dreams dealing with health issues working through difficulties with someone you love raising a child they're all born out of the importance of the situation so I I pause here to say right great pressure opportunity and it's all about the significance of that situation right so she continues it is a privilege to have such opportunities to be trusted to lead a meeting to be a Desir job candidate to love someone or beloved to be a parent so the pressure that comes with them must be seen as a privilege also and she finishes Y which is to me quite uh uh really words that uh help me dealing with something that I am going through at this very moment if you can see it that way you can handle almost anything with calm and Grace so with St Paul and Bly jein King in mind I was hoping Yuri we could perhaps talk about that internal turmoil that we go through be it through external expectation be through all that emotional under currence that we're bringing what can we say about the topic suffering excellent thank you so much first of all it's a pleasure to be here to be able to talk about psychology and spiritism two passions of

ence that we're bringing what can we say about the topic suffering excellent thank you so much first of all it's a pleasure to be here to be able to talk about psychology and spiritism two passions of mine I really liked the introduction you gave there especially talking about the Apostle Paul and also bringing it to more of something of know more current with Bing je King and they're both they both went through suffering they both um had their own deals of of pressure that they had to uh endure throughout their lives if we if we think of the the life of the Apostle Paul for instance it was a lot a lot of suffering he had to go through and there was the the pressure as well that he had to overcome when he was you know he was just converted from Saul to Paul and then he started his whole peregrination and and just going through places and trying to uh spread the word of the go goel of Jesus and the teachings and everything and he he saw a lot of closed doors as he was going through that first with his family his own father former Friends new friends of his new faith and all of that all of that created that pressure and certainly certainly he suffered so much but he used all of that to build exactly what you what you said that I I didn't know about that but it was great about suffering bringing existance and then that creates character and then creates Faith it's almost if we think of from our psychological standpoint perhaps we can see it through the lens of like Steps one thing leading to the other and Paul his whole life was was that and it was incredible some of the things that he's done that he says you know whenever he was in great suffering or he was even when he was being beat up when he was in jail when he was you know like in prison and everything he would still say wow his his view was in in incredible he'd say Jesus thought that I was worthy of this Challenge and that I think makes a great bridge to what bjk said about pressure is a privilege and the suffering that comes with the pressure

ncredible he'd say Jesus thought that I was worthy of this Challenge and that I think makes a great bridge to what bjk said about pressure is a privilege and the suffering that comes with the pressure also a privilege I think yes absolutely I I I think we can start frame our mind uh perhaps in the question of uh what causes suffering is is suffering and some people would say that right suffering is inevitable is it is it uh because there's a difference between pain and suffering right yes what can we talk about the difference and uh leading to the fact that uh uh what is the subject for example for you as a clinical psychologist what do you deal with on a day-to-day basis perhaps and that how can you Enlighten us with the discussion about suffering yes thank you that's that's in that's that's a very good point because I I also see through the lens of there's the difference between pain and suffering and I'll I'll give you my view on both the psychology aspect and the the psychological aspect and also this the spiritual aspect so for the psychological aspect yes in my profession it's basically dealing with suffering in different forms Sometimes they come in the form of diagnosis of symptoms from diagnosis not necessarily meeting the criteria for the diagnosis and everything but they all come with suffering and pain and the pain that's attached to the suffering is incredible when we're able to utilize reframing techniques perhaps and there's so many different lines of psychology this is something that I wanted to mention that there isn't just one line of psychology that deals with suffering and deals with with pain from all sorts and uh what we do basically in of these lines of therapy is reassign the meaning of of the pain because life is full of disappointments life here in our in the planet in the way we are right now it's GNA we're going to have suffering and we're going to have pain but the thing is what do we do with that suffering what do we do with that pain how do we see the pain

t in the way we are right now it's GNA we're going to have suffering and we're going to have pain but the thing is what do we do with that suffering what do we do with that pain how do we see the pain and what what can be done with it you know so there is there's also something that I I I usually bring to you know to the sessions that interesting it's a little it's a little image that there's a few different things that we can do with the pain we can simply suffer from it or like just and there there's like a picture of a person being crashed by the stone a boulder there we can drag the pain and not deal with that and then create even more suffering we can analyze the pain we can learn with the pain from the pain perhaps we can accept it and in the end it's transformed and it's such a a beautiful picture because in theend end the big boulder there's a heart sculpted from that from the transformation of that pain and I think that is that's usually a very powerful metaphor very powerful visualization that we can help clients and patients uh in the field of psychology to go through the suffering reassigning meaning to their pain yeah you remind me actually Yi of someone that I just absolutely am a fan Victor Frankle right so if if uh those of you who are here with us do not know what Victor Frankle is he is a Austrian right neurologist and psychologist as well as a holocaust Survivor so think about it uh in in the field of work that he founded logotherapy it's all about uh what he learned in extreme conditions of loss and suffering and uh and how he he talks so much about giving or reassigning as you mentioned meaning uh one of the things that he said that I thought was uh I I I really like to to bring back to us which is um and by the way I I started to study Victor Frankle at work right so we brought this exact this this uh sentence that he quotes at work to an audience of I don't know almost 100 uh business uh colleagues to talk about Victor Franco so this is super cool but he brought and

brought this exact this this uh sentence that he quotes at work to an audience of I don't know almost 100 uh business uh colleagues to talk about Victor Franco so this is super cool but he brought and and I can even see my mind the graph that uh the the facilitator of that session brought to us which is almost like a seesaw right and uh in that they talked about what he said between stimulus one area of the the Seesaw in response there's a space in that space is our power to choose our response in our response lies our growth and our freedom and he really talked in his book right what happened in in in it's quite even difficult for some people to read his books but in in uh in his book one of his books he talks about uh for example uh the Seesaw right if if the the pivot is is in the middle anything goes but if you're a able to to move maybe one has more weight than the other and Hope and Faith Like St Paul brought to us may be the more powerful more there's more meaning more weight than your response but it's all about resignifying giving a a a different meaning to what you're going through to be able to manage that absolutely yes that he's he's um yeah he's one of of the the people that I look up to as well and is there's like I said there's different lines of psychology that treat and they maybe see through those lens of reassigning things uh reassigning meanings and everything and even if we go further into the development of of diagnosis and and you know severe and persistent mental mental illness for instance schizophrenia that's one that's like there's a lot of study around that um around that diagnosis and they were trying to see the environmental factors and and how much um that impacts the develop the the the the Genesis the onset of a diagnosis such as schizophrenia so what they did they usually do studies with twins and which are you know the the the twins that are genetically equal so they they go and they study those twins both when they live when they live apart and

they did they usually do studies with twins and which are you know the the the twins that are genetically equal so they they go and they study those twins both when they live when they live apart and also when they live together and sometimes they see 40% correlation rate between if one twin has developed SK schran the other doesn't in a traumatic environment because it is a diis stress uh diagnosis which means you need an environmental trigger to um create the onset of the condition but it's interesting to see why how how can two people be biologically 100% genetically the same yet they develop and they they go through the same thing as well so they're biolog biologically the same they go through the same environment same traumatizing environment often times why does one develop and the other doesn't you know if if we we don't even talk about spiritism yet or or the the the teachings from spiritism but if we look at from the psychological standpoint we can already see that there's there's something there like you said in between there's something in between that must occur that will somebody will develop that something as debilitating as schizophrenia is and the other person does not and it's not it's not a high rate 40 48% is not a high rate if we think about 52 % meaning there's a way there's a filter through which they are the person that didn't develop and how are they internalizing the pain and the suffering what what sort of meaning are they assigning to it and I think that speaks a lot just from a psychological standpoint yeah about the the difference between what do we do with it you know what do we do with the suffering and the pain once it comes yeah so uh because we we talked a lot about pain and suffering suffering Pain Suffer oh my goodness pain stemming from suffering and some people uh I in my readings Yuri uh they talk about that pain exists and suffering is a consequence so use the opposite from some of the things that I read can you maybe talk a little bit

ring and some people uh I in my readings Yuri uh they talk about that pain exists and suffering is a consequence so use the opposite from some of the things that I read can you maybe talk a little bit about more the definitions of pain and suffering so that we contextualize better here yes so in in in some of the views from the psychological stando point if we think about pain that is you know as it could be emotional pain could be psychological pain biological pain if we put our hands in the in the oven when the oven is on we're going to get Burns that is going to generate pain but the suffering is going to come if we think again it's an analogy for the the emotional and the psychological aspect as well from these lines of therapy that I'm mentioning so the pain is inevitable we're here where humans life is going to give us a lot of lemin almost on a daily basis sometimes on a daily basis it's what we do with that you know is exactly how do we create our own reality with the pain that we're suffering and oftentimes we think about pain as well you're mentioning pressure Billy Jean talking about Billy Jean King talking about pressure if we if we're trying to work our bodies let's say to be more heal to be healthier we're GNA go let's say to the gym or do a sport that's going to generate some muscle pain but that's that's not suffering that is pain but that's not suffering and then if we're trying to study something new let's say a new language we're going to study a new language it's going to be a lot of frustration a lot of mental pain of like I don't understand what this word is I I thought I had it and you write it wrong but that doesn't necessarily needs to be suffering attached with that pain you know from small to large and even and just to wrap up this this part uh even to um when you talk about Victor Victor Franco there is a therapy that I appreciate a lot called acceptance and commitment therapy in English is act we say act act um and they are they have been very

to um when you talk about Victor Victor Franco there is a therapy that I appreciate a lot called acceptance and commitment therapy in English is act we say act act um and they are they have been very helpful in creating manuals for people who the Syrian refugees and everything for a couple of years ago and help them live a more meaningful life and these are people refugees that have lost everything that have that have endured so much pain in such a short amount of time and even children and everything so it goes to say and it goes to show as well that we can we can always try to manipulate and deal with the pain so it doesn't create further suffering yeah so this act is for refugees in the US or Global this was this is this is global it's called act acceptance and commitment therapy we say act and is is a therapy that's been around for over 30 years now uh it's become really popularized is one of the new cognitive behavior therapies um it's it's one that I utilize and I really really appreciate it because you can use it for a l of different like many different conditions but the the one that I'm mentioning was from I think 2018 or something when there was like the the big influx of Syrian uh refugees into Europe and they were in these camps and like all these uh subpar conditions and they the the World Health Organization contacted one of the lead act psychologist and he wrote a basically like a manual and like things to help these people and they did a study five years after and they saw that the study the the intervention had great impact it was a very positive impact in the lives in the lives of those people yeah and and I and I think it's important because uh you mentioned as a clinical psychologist you deal with a lot of people with say uh traumatic right the post-traumatic uh disorder and uh I would imagine refugees is a is a case in in that you you would see a large percentage of those individuals that are impacted having some PTSD right um from that perspective can we pivot maybe Yuri

h I would imagine refugees is a is a case in in that you you would see a large percentage of those individuals that are impacted having some PTSD right um from that perspective can we pivot maybe Yuri into a more spiritual view of suffering right what can we say perhaps um and you you started with the the the reference to uh twins right identical twins that they they share the same uh genetic code they are perhaps uh take um educated and brought up similarly right in the same family they have been exposed to potentially the same friends etc etc and yet they have a very different um response to suffering yes and and maybe we can talk here uh in and we can talk about a spiritual but also spiritist view of uh how does understanding and believing in the immortality of the Soul plays a part in how different we are in our response to to pain and to suffering absolutely and and this is something that through the lens of spiritism for instance we like if we learn about the immortal soul and we learn about all these things it creates a whole different set of lens through which we can see pain and the the consequence of of of the pain being like the suffering and if we're using the same example of the twins if we think about the immortality of the soul in the past lives because the idea of multiple reincarnations multiple passages in which we are always evolving our own trajectory is very unique we all have different trajectories we all have things that we need to work on things that we maybe said we're going to work on in previous reincarnation we didn't so we come to this one to endure some of those things too you know and Joanna in in in the book plenitude she talks about the the two types the trials and expiations and she says it very well when she mentions that you know expiations are are basically to restore balance and they return the offender to the situation that they found themselves before the fall before they made a mistake so we think about yeah let's go back here let me let me let me stop here

ore balance and they return the offender to the situation that they found themselves before the fall before they made a mistake so we think about yeah let's go back here let me let me let me stop here because maybe uh you who are watching this may it's like oh yeah I got lost now what is Joanna deangel in her book and we highly I highly recommend I think Yuri highly recommends uh as well plentitude which is the third book of her psychology uh collection of 16 books right but she's referring to trials and expansion or trials and atonement as some people will see it as where we are right as a reference to where we are in our spiritual journey today right I don't know if you want to explain further um Yuri and sorry for interrupting you yes no of course of course um yes exactly where we are in our journey today like from because we all have the the spark from from the love of God we're all Immortal beings and divine creatures but we're still evolving spiritually to get to the point of of a Christ or or a spirit like that so in the idea that she's talking about trials and atonements or trials and expirations is basically to talk about the origins of suffering why do we humans in this point in time we suffer and she's saying the or the two origins of that is Trials either suffer because of Trials or expiations or atonements and I already mentioned atonements as being to restore the balance and the trials are things that these experiences that we Undertake and they could be proposed or helped by the mentors or the guide the spiritual guides before we come to the to planet Earth to reincarnate uh and they all help us grow that's the the bottom line they all help us grow some through restoring the balance others through undertaking new challenges so we can grow as Spiritual Beings as is Immortal Spiritual Beings that's awesome that's that's awesome for us to to understand right number one that there is a progression number two well number one is that uh with the concept of immortality of the

Spiritual Beings that's awesome that's that's awesome for us to to understand right number one that there is a progression number two well number one is that uh with the concept of immortality of the Soul um there's always a second a third a fourth chair right we we don't disappear and the end uh which is usually seen as death is really a physical end of this physical body but uh our spirit continues to live on and with that continuation that means that uh until we get to that point of infinite uh wisdom and happiness and and all that is good that comes into a long journey of many many incarnations we are here learning and it's a almost like a Tron eror I in my mind's liy I see often more clearly than any other metaphor of that child right that the baby and the minute the baby right does that to to hold something and as the first time that it can use the hand eye coordination to hold that little whatever a new synapse is made in the brain right this is very uh mental uh progression and we can see us sometimes doing exactly that like the baby that uh tries to and and is enable until we can and each attempt in and this is an egoic response right the attempts that uh hurt us the most that causes us the most suffering are when under the microscope of a highly highly connected Society more than ever where everybody is observing you looking at you talking about you in social media for example we feel that we cannot fail and uh it causes suffering and to me if I may judge that as an unnecessary cause of suffering right the the fact that uh oh I did this and and that will create create a series of anxieties and worries that can at some point if unhinged lead to a pathological uh psychological uh problem right absolutely and I love the fact that you brought the neuros the neuros pychological aspect to this as well the the I think the analogy of the baby is a good one because yes you're right new synapses formed the same way so it's again it's about learning from the experience which we were talking about

s well the the I think the analogy of the baby is a good one because yes you're right new synapses formed the same way so it's again it's about learning from the experience which we were talking about it just minutes ago and I'll use the same example if you put your hand if the that same baby put their hands there in a in a something that's burning hot they're GNA burn themselves and they're not going to do it again because they learned from it they learn from that pain that created that even you know we're talking about babies and child like children so underdeveloped brains can can do that and we sometimes as adults we insist on doing the same the same things and and the same experiences that will lead us to experience pain often unnecessary and accompanying that unnecessary suffering as well and in the it's it's amazing because the the the spiritual side of it I think brings this whole new set of lens as I said that is just amazing because it gives us a lot of Hope if we think that our that's the biggest thing to me if we think that we are Immortal beings and we know that we've had previous reincarnations we're going to have more ahead of us yeah that's great because every new one we're going to try to be a better version of ourselves with every new day learning from the experiences we try to be better versions of ourselves and to you know fulfill our our our goals that we set out before reincarnating perhaps with our trials and restoring the balance through atonement and all those things so I think the the spiritual aspect of this is great and then there's the other key player here that I think we can talk about which is free will and I think what do you think let's do it let's do it right so because uh uh and this is uh very interesting um in I'm just thinking right um we come from a a very selfish self-centered baby if you will immature being psychologically speaking um that is I am the center of the world to to become less and less that and as a an individual in our uh long

om a a very selfish self-centered baby if you will immature being psychologically speaking um that is I am the center of the world to to become less and less that and as a an individual in our uh long journey toward individuation we also become um aware of our part our let's say how accountable how responsible we are as a key player to the whole right so we we impack we impacted the the whole the the the by whole I'm talking talking about the collective and we are impacted by the collective Joan in a different book U uish she talks about uh uh if we can see ourselves as the wave in the ocean I love it right I like that yeah right so being the wave in the ocean we are part of the ocean but the ocean is not the wave right excellent the whole is not me but I am part of the whole and I impact the whole and uh and she goes into this uh interesting discussion in a different book uh the integral human being by the way she she goes into that idea that uh we are now in a position and uh U I love to think that the the the you know 20 plus years of continued um technological advances that comes from uh internet and not just internet is older than that but the social media uh that has become a phenomenon so strong that actually actually is intrusive in everyday life right we this this little something here this little tiny mobile device uh brings social media uh as a form to communicate uh in contact and connect us as ubiquitous as possible so I am connected to you Yuri you're connected to me and we may not ever have had the chance to meet face to face right but uh there they touch points they're this and what is interesting back to your free will question so this is a little bit a a curve a linear instead of a straight line to to answer that but uh what she says is in this hyperconnected world we are no longer able to distance ourselves from the suffering of the other right so so she says this because it's really driving and this is a very optimistic view of the worst of the

connected world we are no longer able to distance ourselves from the suffering of the other right so so she says this because it's really driving and this is a very optimistic view of the worst of the worst in humankind but it pushes us to a response that is not p or even right from pity goes to empathy meaning I feel your pain to actual compassion which is an a um a very engaged active participation in the pain of the collective and and from that perspective she says yes this is great but like the wave in the ocean you can can say I'm part of the ocean I see the Spain but I still have free will I still have the free will not to participate and uh and it's very interesting because that poses a whole different question there's so many different um areas of conflict today if we just say go to right to United Nations and and uh site and say how many areas of conflict and Voom you have between Wars and other civil unrests Etc and this is public areas of conflict we can talk about the conflicts that I have with my neighbor the conflict I have with my my manager with my children the conflicts that I have with myself right yeah and and it's just very interesting despite all of those conflicts now it is the time and and she speaks toward the psychological maturity right now it is the time for us to say I can no longer live indifferent to those conflicts I have an active role in do something about it and so it's very interesting while we have free will we are with our maturity spiritual psychological Etc we're called upon now to have an active response to suffer uing love that I love the idea of being and know having this active response uh the analogy of the wave in the ocean is amazing another inspired analogy that she creates because even if we think about it she didn't say a wave in the beach she used the ocean and I love that you know the vastness of the ocean and thinking that we are waves that are part of this ocean that has a lot of other waves so it brings I think

a wave in the beach she used the ocean and I love that you know the vastness of the ocean and thinking that we are waves that are part of this ocean that has a lot of other waves so it brings I think a sense of belonging a sense of in connectivity with the other people the other Spirits be in in the planet uh right now and that creates like you're saying almost again we're talking about stages again you know about the compassion being the last one where we see so much suffering this this the planet Earth as it is you know as it's transitioning and everything as we we study and we learn about that is is r with suffering there's a lot of suffering and it's it's part of you know the evolutionary purpose that it's it's achieving and we have this suffering too but we cannot just be passive observers nowadays with with um the world being more connected than ever and you're mentioning social media if we think about the technological advances advancements of the last 50 years it's more than the last 1500 years before if we think about the impact and everything so everything is growing and changing very very very quick and it's become then it creates this pressure um and in the end it's about what we do with our time the free will again coming in here what am I doing with my time what am I doing with the the this precious time that I have on this planet in this reincarnation in this exact environment that I am supposed to be that I chose to be in so the idea of you know Joanna says we are the author you know of our own destiny which is great so if I'm the author everything that I'm suffering up until now and I acquired in my let's say karmic balance it was I'm the author of that but I'm also the author that can make the change I'm also responsible for making the change in myself and in others and I think this active participation is an amazing thing that she's talking about because she says determinism so the trials and atonements and Free Will so these two things together are what gonna help us are you

is active participation is an amazing thing that she's talking about because she says determinism so the trials and atonements and Free Will so these two things together are what gonna help us are you know we can see that as tools perhaps and ways that we can see the world and and our own role in it yeah I was um there are two things that I I'm thinking so maybe let me break it into because very separate right the number one it's again um a figure that uh most of us may be uh familiar with uh the the swimmer The Olympian Michael Phelps right I don't know if no but uh his whole life uh he dealt with ADHD and swimming swimming was the tool for him to manage that from his mother and his coach so as his swims uh and and and has that discipline approach to swim and swim more swim faster his body that was so adapted to that uh to that sport became like oh the opportunity that uh that uh Billy Jin King talks about right that perfect body for amazing feets yeah and there he goes but what he finds from a mental well-being uh and he actually produced a documentary not so long ago about mental health and uh athletes Olympians specifically right uh because you you spend your whole life prepared for maybe 10 seconds MH mhm right and and how are you unable to deal with that plus potential injuries plus many many other things but as he he goes and he's very successful in in in the Olympics and everybody now starts to know Michael Phelps he goes in full-blown depression and took a year of absolutely not doing what he was supposed to do and then he and his coach comes up with this new idea of I'm going to do something that was never done before so he goes from the depth of Despair and depression into I'm going to do eight I don't know if you remember eight gold medals in right in all those different uh areas of swimming yeah which means that he now had to transform himself s his body his technique to be able to be adaptive to all those eight categories and so he goes into full bloom you know just as an athlete

imming yeah which means that he now had to transform himself s his body his technique to be able to be adaptive to all those eight categories and so he goes into full bloom you know just as an athlete working out and and uh doing things he's never done before including um uh going to the gym and and and working different types of muscles Etc and he does he he accomplishes that this Des spite I don't know if you if you know this I read his biography not so long ago but in one of the very key competitions he actually gets blinded by the water that gets through his goggle oh and he had a choice right do I go and just focus on the goal or do I stop to take off the water to see right which is goal versus process and he chooses to go without stopping trusting that all those times that he practiced and his brain required him to practice by counting I'm not one of those people but there are some people out there that they just count everything so he would go into one stroke butterfly right one stroke one two three so he knew exactly many more Strokes he needed before he could put your hands and he won but I I think it's genius to to think about it and and why am I bringing that up which is the idea that he was suffering and he imposed a different type of suffering in himself and pain right a lot of new muscles Etc and the potential failure because he made it extrem extremely public and what brings to my mind when I was reading his book is that he didn't do this because he wanted to uh overemphasize in a narcissistic view of I am Michael Phelps I am Invincible he did that because he wanted to bring swimming back right to the Forefront of sports and and so with that uh driver he kept doing and he was very successful I I I have to say it it is no longer so I'm afraid he's no longer playing that role but what an amazing uh feat that he did that and uh from that perspective that you you start to talk about Yuri on that uh uh uh what we're here what is our mission in life right we really need

t role but what an amazing uh feat that he did that and uh from that perspective that you you start to talk about Yuri on that uh uh uh what we're here what is our mission in life right we really need to perhaps take the time to look incl including in our our the darkness that inhabits May inhabit in all of us um maybe pathological depression maybe pathological anxieties and I don't know if it's fair please correct me if I'm wrong but embrace it because underneath at the very bottom of it all may be the answer to all the extreme opportunities the Legacy that we can bring to to our you know the ocean that we inserted on or to ourselves those are just thoughts that came to my mind randomly what what do you think I I I agree I think that the you know the example of Michael Phelps and like you said the depression all his mental health issues he is a big Advocate and yes the the fact is and you said we we got to choose he chose a different type of pain and yes because at the at the the stage that we're in in our spiritual Evolution and the planet the planet that we're in we're going to have pain we're going to have pain suffering will come but it's a matter of which what pain are we choosing what we're doing with that pain what type of then suffering are we dealing with and the this this last piece that you mentioned I think it's important as well for us to to realize because if we look around and if we look inward as well we're going to start to have an idea of what are some of our darknesses what are some of the things that we perhaps they come as expiations perhaps they come as trials perhaps we need to go through some of these things that we sometimes don't understand and I would say more often than not we don't understand we're talking maybe suffering and pain from like a severe Health matter and something like that often times those things are what pushes us what drives Us in the right path as if we are like May we're Devi from our path and like somebody or something like

re Health matter and something like that often times those things are what pushes us what drives Us in the right path as if we are like May we're Devi from our path and like somebody or something like nudges us and we stumble a little bit but we go back to the right path I think I I think a lot of the times this redirection is very important because we don't have a full recollection of all the things that we set out to do or all of our uh objectives and and our mission but we can have a very very good idea I think if we look around where we are and what we are what what are some of my flaws still what are some of the things that you know I need need to work on and what are some of the things that I bring to the table by table let's call it the ocean of humanity there are some qualities and some things that I will help that that will help people grow in my myself as a spiritual being grow as well awesome well we are at time Yuri um and I just want to say to all of us let us Embrace right uh uh the pressures of society whatever they may be I know we share different but we share the element of pain um I would be surprised if I go to the entire world and I find a single being that is painless painfree right we all going through different on types of pain let us be kind to ourselves let us be kind to each other and understand that maybe something that is very painful to the other I have already overcome therefore it's not something that I have to deal with but I have to respect that that person the other that we're seeing may not have overcome that as as of yet any final words Yuri to to us here it was it was a it was a pleasure doing this today this talk and I and I want to you know for people who are watching or people who are listening to us I just want to say that we we have gone a long way already and we still have a long way to go but the thing is we're marching forward and understanding these things and having especially like I said this this the the lands of spiritism can help us

way already and we still have a long way to go but the thing is we're marching forward and understanding these things and having especially like I said this this the the lands of spiritism can help us make um make the difference within ourselves into society as well so we can always grow we can always learn from pain like you said embracing the darkness and growing from that absolutely with that I want to say thank you everybody I appreciate you being here with us as I mentioned in the beginning put your feedback your questions your your thoughts about the subject and uh I'll see you next week bye everyone bye