Ep 132 - The Search for Meaning: Awakening the Divine Within

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality bridge to a better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore the intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result we capture timeless wisdom contained in both spirituality and psychology disciplines. My name is Marcia Trojan and today I'm so very happy to welcome a what I consider a very very special guest a friend psychologist and spiritist educator Yudi Castro and hi Yudi. How you doing? >> Hello Marcia. Hello everybody. I'm doing very well honored and joyful to be here today. >> Awesome. It's so good. And together we will dive into this topic. right? A search for meaning that uh somehow affects all of us at some point if not now right at some point of our lives. And uh we are inspired by Joanna D'Angelus. And with that inspiration I propose Yuri that we explore how suffering, creativity and spirituality, religiosity are part of this journey that we we look and we find purpose. And of course uh spoiler alert to everyone not in the outside world. It is this journey within. But Yudi, before we begin our conversation, if you don't mind, um I I think we should discuss a little bit the concept of the opposite of meaning, which is the existential vacuum. And that concept was introduced by Victor Frankle. I love I love Victor Frankle. And uh if you who are here with us have never heard or read his work, please do. Right. So who who was Victor Frankle? He was an Austrian uh psychiatrist uh really known because he was a Holocaust survivor and uh he founded the field of logootherapy. He also in his work introduced this this existential vacuum concept and uh the concept really described the quite widespread right psychological state of uh inner emptiness. this sense of loss of meaning especially as our societies evolved to a modern industrialized rushed society. I say rushed, I could say distracted more than rushed. But um Victor Frankle he observed so you have to think about uh Holocaust survivor

r societies evolved to a modern industrialized rushed society. I say rushed, I could say distracted more than rushed. But um Victor Frankle he observed so you have to think about uh Holocaust survivor right so 1945 on um and he observed that many people though outwardly uh successful right we're talking about uh I am wealthy I am healthy I am good-looking I am powerful Whatever is the trappings of external material success, right, or even comfort, he despite all of it, they feel hollow inside. They suffer no longer from physical deprivation. Uh, and I immediately think about Maslo's pyramid, right, of we need to do the basic needs first. But anyways, back to Victor Frankle. Um, not from physical deprivation, but uh perhaps the spiritual disorientation uh which really means I don't have a purpose. Yodi, I'm thinking I'm I'm your I'm your patient now. Yi, Dr. Yudi Caster. I don't have a purpose. I don't have direction. I have no I just I feel there's no ground in where I wrote. So he he mentioned ever more people today have the means to live but no meaning to live for and it's so profound. Right. >> Right. And it's like this this oh this silent despair um a life of distractions and we know uh since the 2000s um and I'm talking about we're 25 you know two decades and a half later with the onset of widespread acceptance of social media that we are more and more and more distracted but also if you will he was talking about this kind of inner of course it's an inner uh experience inner homelessness right where my soul my spirit knows that it belongs somewhere greater but doesn't know how to get to that place how to return to that place from the begin with so uh we're talking about depression anxiety addiction consumerism. My problem specifically, I confess, workcoholism. In some cases, we see chronic boredom. Um, I see especially in the younger generation, either a ingrained sense of conformity, right, as trying to hold on to or find meaning or the other way around, rebellion, right? uh uh uh James

oredom. Um, I see especially in the younger generation, either a ingrained sense of conformity, right, as trying to hold on to or find meaning or the other way around, rebellion, right? uh uh uh James Dean's rebel without a cause. So rebellion without anything to rebel against with and ultimately suicide we so this is not for the faint of heart. This is something that is really really hard and uh and uh in instead of us maybe thinking that those those symptoms that are expressed with this you know this emptiness are signs of failure right you're it's really a a symptom of our souls our just inner the the most the core of who we are in search exactly for significance for meaning, right? And uh I know um he and I'm going to stop talking here, but uh uh Vic I I Victor Franco is amazing. But Victor Franco specifically, he believes the root cause of why we are where we are today. But today is what seven decades after the end of the war. Eight decades. So it's it's quite uh uh much later in in the now of what he was writing about. But uh he said that uh today and I don't know if you agree with that but we are really losing traditional values. The anchor of our society is just really fragmenting and uh even religious frameworks are declining with a staggering rate. Right. And uh those could have been our spiritual anchors. And without them, we're like a boat that is a drift. And uh >> right. And and how do you do this? We'll fill the that vacuum with I don't know. I don't know about you, but what I see is a search for pleasure. And by pleasure, I mean, I don't know. Uh I want to experience a a jolt of adrenaline. So, I'm going to, you know, uh, do uh, parachuting or skydiving or whatever. It's like I want to I want my my my journal, if you are a journalist, full of experiences, but okay, great. But so what, right? So, um, back to if we're back to Joanna because we're talking about, uh, meaning and, uh, Joanna Den has a really amazing book in search of truth >> and they go really right, you know, hand

at, right? So, um, back to if we're back to Joanna because we're talking about, uh, meaning and, uh, Joanna Den has a really amazing book in search of truth >> and they go really right, you know, hand in hand and she she she just really discusses that this existential vacuum that Victor Frankle was talking about is not to be seen as punishment, but as an invitation for all of us to perhaps wake up and and she even would say this is me Joanna the angels trying to be get your words but she would say this is a call from yourself right yourself your spiritual uh side that uh deep immortal side of who we are urging you and me all of us to go beyond our appearances, reorient our lives, to look for maybe our true purpose, which should be perhaps to grow, to serve, to love, and somehow return to the divine. I talked a lot. So if we go back to her again, we see that um Jon of the Angels provides us with a right at beginning of one of her chapters in the search of truth. She she she says uh the following. Are you paying attention Yuri? No one because I'm going to ask you a question now. No one bearing consciousness can journey through Earth without an existential purpose. So Yuri, what does it say about our emotional and spiritual needs today? >> Excellent points. I love that you brought Victor Frankl as well because it does connect extremely well. There's a lot of congruency between the ideas especially in this book that you mentioned in search of truth >> between his ideas with he founded logootherapy the the idea of finding meaning and all of that >> and suffering and that's something that Joanna also talks about and when you mention >> this sort of vacuum or this existential uh maybe we can't say crisis but sort of this existential emptiness >> that we we see in society we have always we have always seen that. That's the thing. Nowadays is more advertised perhaps and there's more things that have been sort of drawing our attention c like trying to capture our attention

have always we have always seen that. That's the thing. Nowadays is more advertised perhaps and there's more things that have been sort of drawing our attention c like trying to capture our attention and more ways that we can distract ourselves as you already mentioned as well that we distract ourselves from what's really going on and what I really need to do. So I think a lot of it connects very well with this notion that when you ask nowadays because nowadays we have so many things that can that can pull uh uh like I said that can pull our attention and we just we're trying to find meaning and I say we as a whole as a like society as a whole let's say but it's so hard nowadays because it even even things like you said spirituality all those things are sort of declining because there's so many pleasures of the flesh and pleasures of the body and immediate uh rewards. So our dopamineergic ne n ne n ne n ne n ne n ne n ne n ne n ne n ne n ne systems are are addicted to this sort of shots of dopamine that give give us pleasure that's quick and it's accessible and nowadays everything >> is more accessible and that's something I wanted to bring and see if you agree Marcia but before I think we've all as humans we've all we've always experienced this existential emptiness at least at some point maybe those who are listening or watching this are saying oh but I don't experience that okay good but at some point It's it's almost certain >> either you have already and you or you will for sure. But the thing is is it it's part of the process. But nowadays everything is so easily achievable. Everything is so easily in our hands. We have cell phones. We have the internet. We have logistics have improved. So drugs move easily. There's a lot of things that are more accessible now that is such a blessing and at the same time a curse. And that's why we see this epidemic in mental health and all these issues in society. I think I don't know what you think. >> No, no. I I just I'm seeing a lot of

lessing and at the same time a curse. And that's why we see this epidemic in mental health and all these issues in society. I think I don't know what you think. >> No, no. I I just I'm seeing a lot of mental pictures with what you're saying. And and when you talk about just, you know, in passing about improvements in logistics, >> right? Because it's something that we don't realize. But nowadays, when I say everything is more accessible, I don't don't just mean the internet. If we go back, >> I don't know, 200 years ago, how hard was it for people to, you know, all these new drugs are being created? All these things are moving so much faster because logistics have improved. You know, it's it's a sort of like an operational viewpoint, but it feeds into this this rhetoric that I'm saying that there is everything is so much more accessible and so much more >> yeah, at your fingertips, right? And uh and if we think about it, this is just the the the image that came to my mind. This is many years ago. Yodi, I went uh I was lucky enough to go to Africa um South Africa that is. And what was so interesting in that uh you know we we have all the exotic ideas of a foreign country and uh and you get there and you know what was the most present image advertising but the most pre present image in everywhere I went was Coca-Cola. >> I was gonna I was going to guess McDonald's but Coca-Cola. Okay. >> Coca-Cola. and and of course uh uh I lived the majority of my life uh by far has been living in the city that is the headquarters of that company in Atlanta. So Coca-Cola was very present from a that right uh and and it's just very interesting because if you think about it it's all about logistics. The company is no longer a company that transcended the ability to bring an amazing drink if you if you like it, right? An amazing drink to anywhere in the desert, in the uh in the Arctic, wherever you are. Uh Coca-Cola is present. But it's the idea of the >> transcending the the complexities of

if you like it, right? An amazing drink to anywhere in the desert, in the uh in the Arctic, wherever you are. Uh Coca-Cola is present. But it's the idea of the >> transcending the the complexities of logistics. But back to you. I just uh had to say that they came really strong that image of Coca-Cola in Africa. >> And you make you make a good point because even Coca-Cola, okay, it's a soda, right, is not that that harmful, but it it it is also harmful and it's also more accessible now than ever. And there's so many uh synthetic drugs being created nowadays versus a 100 years ago, 200 years ago. So everything nowadays is, like I said, more accessible. And I think again it's a blessing because a lot of the things I'm I'm glad we have more accessibility but at the same time it can be a curse because it can put us in a in a position where >> we we we as being creatures of habit. >> We want to go with the easy route. Usually we don't want to do things that are hard by nature. >> We try them, but we we want what's easy. And when we're being fed with TV shows and and I have Coca-Cola delivered to my house right now with McDonald's if I don't even need to go outside, right? >> Yeah. >> It makes it so much easier. So I think but going back to a more macro point here with the existential piece, I think that also diverts us from this quest from this difficult journey of looking inward. 2,000 years ago, people didn't have television. People didn't have people couldn't surf the internet. So they would look at scars, >> they would talk about meaning of life in person with other people. But nowadays it's like it's so much harder to do that because we're we're finding it very hard to take the the difficult road of selfdiscovery of looking inward of trying to find our true selves and then we we end up with an existential emptiness >> that we try to fill up with something else. But but Yudi um I know we're we're we're we're talking about all those things that uh distract us as this and

we we end up with an existential emptiness >> that we try to fill up with something else. But but Yudi um I know we're we're we're we're talking about all those things that uh distract us as this and you said it's always been there and I just want to remind you and me and everyone here today that uh yes so television it's a 19th century phenomenon just like social media is a a 21st century phenomenon right but uh Plato Plato Plato, you know, adverted um not adverted, he he alerted us. >> Warned Yeah. >> Yeah. He warned us with this allegory of the cave. >> Oh, yes. Right. So for for those of you in very simple words that did not know, so Plato, he was a disciple of Socrates, right? Socrates never wrote uh anything, but he taught a lot. Plato um uh wrote in copiously including the apology to kind of tell the world Socrates was innocent when he was sentenced to death. But he he brought the allegory of cave of the cave which is this idea exactly what you're saying right now. We're back to the TV uh image here where in that case in the cave over 2,000 year you know way over 2,000 years ago the the the idea that Plato brought was that this man three men were sitting down in a cave shekeled right they are prisoners of the cave and of course this is allegory the prisoners of what we do with our mind but in that cave there will a uh projection, right? The shadow projection into the cave walls and they >> bought in into the idea of the illusion, right? The illusion projected into the wall as that is what reality is. And of course the the the allegory goes into one gets out and blinded uh a little bit but then he sees reality is much more colorful beautiful uh full of sensations than doing that and he comes back to free the others and they are like no no you're lying this is reality and this is perfect to what you're saying just right now so many years ago uh we're still dealing with Are we prisoners in the cave or do we have the courage right the courage takes courage to say

ity and this is perfect to what you're saying just right now so many years ago uh we're still dealing with Are we prisoners in the cave or do we have the courage right the courage takes courage to say this is just an illusion let's go to the reality but in this case and uh my thought now goes to the matrix the movie right where it's a reality within a reality within a reality it's the idea to wake up to the reality may not be as pretty or as curated as edited as you would like, but it's real. So, what is real in in psychology and spirituality? Because I think the the spirit's book brings that in question 132, right? What is the purpose of our lives, our reincarnation, which is to attain perfection, to have a life that has a moral direction. So what does it mean Yudi to have that moral direction that Alan Cardc brought to us in 1857? >> Absolutely. And I think it goes very well with Joanna D'Angelo's work this idea of and then she talks about of course she brings a lot of kung in in in the in the situation using the individuation you know reaching the planitude all of those >> like terminology. Uh but this this idea that we are souls, we are immortal souls and we go through different processes of reincarnation. So acquiring uh temporarily a material body so we can progress. The the whole purpose is to progress and that's something that I love about spiritism and that merges very well with psychology. This idea this idea of we are here to progress. We are here to amilarate our own moral situation and by doing such we invariably am ailarate those around us. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I always think about it uh this is my uh the the I'm joking today too much. I'm sorry, Unity, but uh as a as a kid, right, uh living with a deeply religious family, especially my grandmother, and she h just this this this beautiful woman that just welcomed us in her warm embrace as as little kids, five-year-old, and and she would ask, "Well, Marcia, what is the purpose of life?" This is my grandma

h just this this this beautiful woman that just welcomed us in her warm embrace as as little kids, five-year-old, and and she would ask, "Well, Marcia, what is the purpose of life?" This is my grandma talking to a 5-year-old Marcia. And I would say, well, grandma, it is to live better. And I'm not say live better. I'm say leave better. What do I mean by that as a 5-year-old? That whatever you are, if you only make it better, you're already in the right space that we need to be. Because of course, a 5-year-old is different than a 10year-old. so on so forth. So from that perspective, uh you use the word amiliarate, right? So we're here to to be better as as those immortal souls that we are as you mentioned, but we also have the responsibility that if we see suffering in ourselves and around ourselves, what are we doing to amilarate to make it less painful that situation within us? and a realm surrounding us >> without charity there's no salvation. Yeah, >> we hear that from >> our code of fire lung card and the idea you know you're saying helping those around us >> which ties very very very well with the meaning of life and this existential meaning even brought by Victor Franco and he talks about finding meaning in love as in our connection one ways of finding meaning through love and he talks about the connection that we have with other people because we are all interconnected that's the that's the I think the beauty of of humanity and the beauty of where we are this idea that we improve ourselves and we improve others around us and and this notion that >> the reincarnation is is this new chance. I'm not gonna say second chance because it's a lot of chances probably. Yeah. >> But is this new is this new chance to to sort of repair the errors that we made before, but also get new trials and trials that are going to improve us, make us closer to that that process of the individuation that we talks about that we talk about. So that Joanna and Gung talk that they talk about. So I

trials and trials that are going to improve us, make us closer to that that process of the individuation that we talks about that we talk about. So that Joanna and Gung talk that they talk about. So I think a lot of it has to do with this notion when we're talking about the searching for uh the search for meaning which is this episode today is this notion that we if we try to find meaning in things that are ephemerous things that are materialistic or material oriented necessarily which are always outside of us. >> Yeah. We're gonna end up with an existential vacuum, an existential emptiness. If we try to derive meaning from things that are material, effemerous outside of us. >> Yes. Yes. I think it's it's beautiful because I think we're we're all in agreement. We don't like to suffer, right? We don't like to suffer. >> So, Victor Frankle, uh, Alon Card, Joanna D'Angelos, Car Gustav, all all holding hands right now. um saying yes everyone you and mercy especially let us understand that the suffering that you may feel right is all about your own soul searching for meaning now Victor Franco gave a little bit of a an understand why right the degradation of traditional values of religious etc etc so now we know Why? But so what what do we do with that? How how do we go about uh maybe living lives of not they're not so empty perhaps and that at least are moving toward uh fulfillment and and I I I think it's it's all about um waking up right you waking up to to the idea what is meaning and what are our tools like going back to Plato's allegory of the cave. What can I do to just open the shackles of what imprisons me? And you mentioned something quite interesting in in re relating to uh the biggest the most common source today of that distraction which is that little mobile device. And you you mentioned it is cognitively speaking it's that dose of dopamine right that uh keeps feeding us almost like a drug and no no matter how wonderful it is let's say we let's say let's say here fictional uh envir uh

it is cognitively speaking it's that dose of dopamine right that uh keeps feeding us almost like a drug and no no matter how wonderful it is let's say we let's say let's say here fictional uh envir uh proposition here we go to the best restaurant right you you and I meet and we go to the best the most like a three Michelin star restaurant in whatever city in the world and we're there and this is just not only expensive but it's like a a a moment that we we reserved we we got ready we dressed to the occasion. We have all of that there and we look at it and we go like I prefer my dose of dopamine here. This doesn't cut it. and and to me I'd love to hear from you from your perspective that uh that chasm between reality and illusion seems to be widening. So it's harder and harder for us to wake up to the real source of meaning in our lives. >> Yes, I agree 100%. the and I love the word you use the word chasm because the the wider that chasm the the the bigger the suffering because of the existential meaning or lack thereof you know because this there's this idea and I see this again in teenagers in my own profession who like whom I treat >> this this look the the preffrontal cortex the rewards pathway in our prefrontal cortex they are pretty much the same for drugs for you know for food for sex for Tik Tok for like things like that. And these this these kids who have an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex, which is the normal normal way that our brains our brains develop, >> they are becoming easy prey because of the fact that >> it's the e, like I said before in the beginning, it's the easy road. It's the easy path and it's the quick shot of dopamine that feels very good. and anything that deviates from that >> aka a book. That's why it's so hard for people to read a book and sustain attention nowadays because it doesn't feel rewarding. >> That's where we're seeing the issue. But then these kids, they they transition into adulthood or those who are adults already and didn't live through the know

ays because it doesn't feel rewarding. >> That's where we're seeing the issue. But then these kids, they they transition into adulthood or those who are adults already and didn't live through the know the the phase of teenagehood in social media. We also see those issues with them where they're they're addicted to >> these things and like I said these external pleasures, these external rewards >> and they're numbing themselves and finding more and more emptiness and we see that translated again in my profession in in the rates of depression, anxiety, all these mental illnesses >> that are you know devastating our society and it's not it's not by accident. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, depression, anxiety, all related to this inability. Uh, but I really appreciate what you said and I I want to say thank you. Um, because this is a cautionary tale for anyone who's a parent today, right? What can I do? What should I do to um shield my children? uh be it you know really children or teenagers etc. How can I shield my, you know, the next generation from being that e easy of a prey to all of those things? And I would say for anyone who is behind producing Tik Tok videos, right? Or or those uh that are behind say uh pharma industry looking for the creation of drugs to save someone. Despite of all of those things, um we we need to learn to identify critically what do I need to do with my brain? your biggest tool today is your brain. Well, I would say actually it's not the brain, it's the heart, right? But uh for us to live in society, we need uh uh our cognitive functions and we're just saying no, I'm not I I'm going to stop reading. Uh which from a humanity perspective, the ability to communicate, to socialize, and and to read are the biggest achievements. We are here because of those achievements. So what are we doing? Are we just saying no, we're going to not do anything. And uh I think um I'm I'm I'm thinking now of a and I forgot the name. Um it was a little a cartoon by Pixar about a little

So what are we doing? Are we just saying no, we're going to not do anything. And uh I think um I'm I'm I'm thinking now of a and I forgot the name. Um it was a little a cartoon by Pixar about a little robot. Do you remember that? >> Wall-E. >> Wall-E. >> Yeah. that that that movie was so tremendously impactful to me, not impactful to the reality that we're all suffering, which is a a planet Earth becoming a planet of trash or lack of waste management, right? So, we are we're just we're crumbling and and falling in in a world of so much trash. But also when he sees the population of um overweight completely catered to people in do you remember that going around eating and and watching a a some stimulation? >> Yeah. >> But it's all numbing them >> zombies basically. >> Yeah. uh and and that was quite an impactful as I said before movie to me because perhaps it predicts what our society can become right. >> No, absolutely. And if you think about it, the movie was done in 2008. >> Yeah. >> So, it's been a while ago and and it's >> it's very it's very much much predictive. And I said and I also said it's a blessing and a curse all these things because we I mentioned Tik Tok and you know YouTube all those things are very >> but it's it's thanks to YouTube thanks to technology that you are in Tennessee I'm in Florida and this video might reach somebody that is in China right now. So >> yes >> also a blessing that we have this access accessibility >> as well but it's all it's not about the instrument. And I always say this about the use of the instrument. We can use we can use we can use Tik Tok to spread joy to spread hope to spread you know the good news with capital G and capital N but at the same time we can use to just make viral things that will lead to nowhere. So it is it is the use of the instrument and I think that speaks a lot to the moral development as of of ourselves and as a society because we are as Joanna D'Angelo says and always says the books uh we are progressing we

e of the instrument and I think that speaks a lot to the moral development as of of ourselves and as a society because we are as Joanna D'Angelo says and always says the books uh we are progressing we are still lagging behind. We learned that through the spirits in Alen Cardex's work as well. We're still behind morally technologically we advance very well >> intellectually too but morally we're still lagging behind. And I just wanted to mention one thing too, Marcy. I think when you're talking about before >> made me think of uh this conversation of it's so hard for for somebody to read a book and I and I mentioned it because it's there's so many >> easier ways to get rewards. I thought of arts. You know, we were talking just before we we went live here. We talk about we were talking about art and you know, museums. And I'm thinking it is so hard for somebody to go, let's say a teenager to go and try to appreciate looking at art in museums when they can just be in the comfort of their couch on their phones just looking at something and not, you know, not having the effort to do that. >> Well, and and uh and I know I have a background in art history, right? So I do appreciate art and it's so funny because today there's a phenomenon quite interesting but it it it it talks about the difference between reading perhaps uh you you correct me here please but reading right a book and immersing in a video where pretty colors, movement, music all of it create that ambiance. So you you don't create in your mind, it's given to you. And today the difference between um and I don't know if you've been to any of those, but those immersive experiencing exactly that as you described. >> Yeah. And I and I went to a couple um one of them that was so touching to me was Oingo, right? >> I did that too. >> Oh, isn't it amazing, isn't it? Just absolutely to be inside of in depending on the environment walls but it's just projecting the colors the life the the the music and it gives a whole different

. >> Oh, isn't it amazing, isn't it? Just absolutely to be inside of in depending on the environment walls but it's just projecting the colors the life the the the music and it gives a whole different meaning to uh understanding the genius of Van Go as a painter right instead of the I think it's about this size the majority of his paintings are not very large and you you see yourself as that. Uh there is um another one that is really interesting just from a scale as I mentioned the size of vanos but uh um Napoleon right the movie about the bonapart and uh oh gosh the Ridley Scott I think it was the director if I'm not mistaken but he did a beautiful job but he did um take one amazing ing painting right and which is the by Jacqulu Davidid the coronation of Napoleon I think is the title and it's in the Lou and that is just like a a size of a wall of a regular bedroom almost and but he did a beautiful as a director he created so true to that painting right created in a movie so for those that have been to the Lou have studied have read um about the art of of uh of David and uh this particular work and which is a recreation of reality the reality of the coronation that happened in real time and then there's a projection to a painting and then the painting becomes projected into a movie and somehow uh you you you get uh aided with uh images that of course you create stories in your mind of of what that it means. But anyways, we digressed. Tell us about the prefrontal cortex, how it feeds to that immediate gratification. Right. I'm just trying to remember the points, right? And our addiction to external immediate rewards which leads to our now and that's the problem at bay here. um our problem to no longer be anesticized with um with those inputs that are ready made for us. Uh maybe an another analogy would be the how most families now uh especially here in the US no longer despite their beautiful kitchens and beautiful amazing appliances, we have become really unable to take the

an another analogy would be the how most families now uh especially here in the US no longer despite their beautiful kitchens and beautiful amazing appliances, we have become really unable to take the time to cook and the slowness right there is a slow cooking movement in Italy for for a couple of decades now that talks about the how slow cooking the the the slow eating the kind of let's go back to how things were be before technology. This is not an apology to not eat out or or or buy readyade or even uh hire Door Dash or or uh Uber Uber Eats, right? No, it's not. It's about can we not move ourselves or uh fall prey as you mentioned those words are very impactful to me to being unable to do things if outside of that completely edited and curated uh experience of whatever it is in life. Right? Can we read again? Can we put our brains and our hearts into what is really meaningful to us? >> I think we can and we should we should try to look for things that or we should try let's let me let me rephrase. We should try to avoid as much as we can because it's inevitable >> and it's also there's nothing wrong you know if I want to just watch TV for 30 minutes or a TV show that I'm really interested in. It's nothing wrong with that. It's just the excessive again the excessive and inappropriate use of the instruments. And if we take it to a macro level now let's talk about reincarnation. Let's talk about you know the the instrument >> and I'm touching my arm here for those who are just listening. I'm touching my know my shoulders. this instrument that we receive called our bodies, our incarnation as this. Yeah. this moment and the in time in the small moment in the whole like >> the whole timeline of the spirit as an immortal soul is just this tiny moment that we have received that we have been granted and what how are we using this instrument our own bodies how are we using >> our times and that's what I'm that's what I'm talking about the misuse or the excessive inappropriate use of time of

ranted and what how are we using this instrument our own bodies how are we using >> our times and that's what I'm that's what I'm talking about the misuse or the excessive inappropriate use of time of of our instruments of our brains of you know eating too much and >> enjoying too much too many things that are not going to do us well which >> invariably Marcia I think what they do is they >> move us away or they they like I said we fall prey to them and they move us away from the journey of self-discovery from the difficult look the difficult aspect of looking inward and connecting with God and connecting with myself what do you think >> yeah I I love it um there's another concept I I know we're getting to the end. So before we we say goodbye today because this is a great conversation but there's a a an interesting concept right uh which is the IMOD and imo the image of God which is by the way spiritually speaking it's foundational in the Judeo-Christian thought right and all it is this concept is to um just to make it inside, right? The the idea that the sacred divinity that the the concept of uh divine is inside of all of us, right? >> Yes. >> So, >> uh when we think that but you you're saying the man is in the image of God, what does it mean? Well, it's really all about how God is already within us and we we bridge to inside of ourselves every time we are creative, every time we're demonstrating that spiritual psychological maturity, right? every time we we can I don't know uh see the the spark of the soul and when we are so true to ourselves that we are boom connected with our father our creator and we become right gods as well with the lowercase G here and and I think it's it's very interesting when we say that because huh we also in historically speaking have fallen prey to the idea that uh religiosity my expression of my faith is external worship and we say no not at all right what we we mean is it's that idea that connecting with everything in our lives which goes back to the beginning right

osity my expression of my faith is external worship and we say no not at all right what we we mean is it's that idea that connecting with everything in our lives which goes back to the beginning right how can we do that Yi Great point because and as Joanna says, it's part of the process of our own evolution that we we learn as we go and and this this idea of of >> you know that image of God and oh so God is like us or God is, you know, has a beard, he's a man and he's punitive. If we even look at the Old Testament, you know, it was this very uh vengeful God and then in the New Testament is somebody that's merciful. So it's already a step a step forward, you know, in the direction of good. So this there's I think we learn as we go. I think we're going to be in a couple of thousand years, we're going to look back and see, oh, what we had so many different ideas and outdated ideas and we're looking back now like, oh, 2,000 years ago, this is what they believed in. But it's part of the process and I think it's it is there's nothing wrong with that. And we talked in different episodes about know the shadow and all these things related to K Yung and there there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of the process. So accepting and understanding it and looking at it >> from a standpoint of of like from a loving standpoint, you know, it's part of who we are. It's the same way you look at a child that's startless learning to walk. >> You don't frown. You don't think it's bad that they're they're tripping and they can't walk that they're they're they're all like shaky. you you look at it with love like oh that's so good like they're learning and one day they're going to walk and then they're going to run. It's kind of like that in our evolutionary process from the moral and spiritual standpoint. So all these things that before we looked as you said very well we looked for external uh um sort of gr not gratification but a sort of an external function of oh I'm going to sacrifice an animal. I'm going to

ese things that before we looked as you said very well we looked for external uh um sort of gr not gratification but a sort of an external function of oh I'm going to sacrifice an animal. I'm going to sacrifice a human being for God. I'm gonna know all these external things looking to the approval of God. But when we know now that it's all in here, >> it's so simple. It's so simple. >> It's much more simple. It's much more beautiful. And we all have access to God. We don't need to sacrifice no animals to achieve that. We don't need to to pray a certain number of times in a in a in a very mechanical way to to talk to God. You know that I think that's that's the beauty of, you know, learning. >> Yeah. learning and and growing and evolving, you know. >> Yeah, absolutely. But uh we can talk so much more about meaning, the search for meaning, right, Yodi? Uh but I want to say just as we wrap up our time together um again Joanna D'Angelus in in her work reminds us that uh our journey today our life today is not about escapism. Right? That that's the main lesson. It is really the contrary. It is about diving deep into our own inner depths to discover that divine spark right that we talked about it in just a few minutes ago that imo imigo day. And we will not find the image of God unfortunately in temples or rituals but in how we actually unfold our own consciousness and uh we do that I don't know prayer service art or even the silent introspection that is harder and harder for us to do right but let us um accept this invitation from Joanna and and take one step at a time to go inward and to perhaps go back to expand our capacity to think to meditate to reflect to love to understand to live right to live with meaning. So I I would say let us all Yodi honor um our own individual path of awakening right honor as the little child that you mentioned that falls and we honor we embrace we applaud the effort to oh you fell let's get up again right and let us all uh be on the right path to search for own

t honor as the little child that you mentioned that falls and we honor we embrace we applaud the effort to oh you fell let's get up again right and let us all uh be on the right path to search for own meaning and to go back home go back home to where we were. >> But I want to say thank you. Thank you, Yudi, for being here with me. Thank all of you who are here with us. And until next time, let us all be aware of this beautiful journey. For those of you who are just now the first time joining us, this is our uh psychology and spirituality weekly talks and they're all based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus. But I hope you're able to get some uh ideas on how those concepts, right? Spirituality and psychology kind of merge together and gives us a a notion to to learn and to be kind to ourselves. I wanted to thank you Yuri. I want to thank also our sponsors, Manzel Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, Ali Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the medical spiritist association. But we'll be back again in another episode and until then, thank you so very much everyone. >> Thank you.