Ep 123 - Shadow and Summit - The Dream of the Superman

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality bridge to better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore this intersection of spirituality and psychology. And frankly, quite it's such an honor that we we come to to capture during our discussions timeless wisdom that are containable fields. I'm really excited to have you here with me today as Yudi Castra with me comes back to join in this insightful and profound reflection that Joanna Angels brings to us about the journey of the human spirit. How you doing Yodi? I'm very good. Thank you so much Marcia for having me back. I'm excited about today. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Well, I want to start reminiscing on um a a moment quite a long time ago, Yodi, but um as you know, Christopher Reev, he the actor, right? He gained worldwide fame when he played Superman in four films. Um he did that around uh late 70s to late 80s so about uh 10 years in this and uh interesting enough his portrayal of that character was so iconic because in it he combined his portrayal right uh a sense of strength his charm and interesting enough moral integrity. Unfortunately, about uh another 10 years later, less than 10 years, uh in 1995, he had a horse riding accident that uh left him, as most of us know, paralyzed from the neck down. And in this process of losing it all, losing his ability to act, losing his ability to to to work as he was so used to with his uh um his body, his his strength, right? All the physicality that he had in the movies. He actually became a quite interesting but passionate advocate for anyone who had gone through spinal cord injury and he did research and he really was also an advocate for disability rights. Um at the time he funded the Christopher Ree Foundation. He raised millions of dollars for medical research and he that's interesting this point here but he pushed for advances in stem cell therapy right he he also worked it's it's impossible to think about all he did uh he directed films he wrote books

rch and he that's interesting this point here but he pushed for advances in stem cell therapy right he he also worked it's it's impossible to think about all he did uh he directed films he wrote books he actually continued acting and he became this powerful voice for hope and resilience. Yuri a a year before he died um in 2003. He died in 2004. I got to meet him. So Christopher Reev presented on um the stem cell right the therapy and what he was doing with his foundation during a conference and I got to hear I was very close to Kim such a powerful moment that I still bring that to my memory and uh in addition to talk about the research that he was doing or he was help fund he actually uh he delivered one of the many motivational speeches and uh with that message he inspired all of us with such a message of hope and perseverance. So think about it he was wheelchair bound. He had lost his hair. He he was very tall, very um you know a very tall man and goodlooking etc. But he no longer his body was failing. He was at the very end of that path and he he physically speaking, visually speaking, he no longer embodied the invincible and ideal man. So that idealized version of Superman that he played so many times and made him worldwide famous, right? And yet he was there to me and to anyone in that audience. Um he remained that symbol of strength. Even thinking about it, I I get a little choked because it was such a powerful message. So my question to you, can we maybe use our episode today to talk about this journey in this case, the journey that Christopher Ree did, but that we all do somehow, right? uh the journey into the depths of his soul, facing in in the case of Christo Reeve, uh facing the echoes of the Superman archetype, but in the end finding himself in the path, the real path toward inner wholeness. What are your thoughts? Thank you for sharing that story uh of meeting him and for giving a little bit of of a background uh on Christopher. And I think that your question is very

ard inner wholeness. What are your thoughts? Thank you for sharing that story uh of meeting him and for giving a little bit of of a background uh on Christopher. And I think that your question is very pertinent because especially for today's episode when we're talking about the Superman archetype and this idea that this person who had portrayed the Superman or Clark Kent, you know, who the one who was morally perfect, physically stronger than anybody else out there. Uh so physically strong, morally very advanced, intelligent, kind, all of those qualities, you know, that the Superman brings, this archetype brings with this invincibility, especially the physical invincibility. And it is for one reason or another. It is something that we can take um like learn a lesson from I think because even with the actor himself who was the portrayal of this the Superman idea of this character who was almost quote unquote perfect in a way you know had the kryptonite no but he was basically uh perfect in in in a lot of different dictionaries out there but this idea that this person who portrayed the superman in the was like suffer something that was not planned. Something that perhaps, you know, he he had the this the injury became, like you said, paralyzed from the neck down. And therefore, it was it's interesting to see how some someone who was portraying something so invincible, so unbreakable in the end shows how our bodies are very fragile. How all of these things that we have and we're using right now which is the material world. Everything is ephemerous. Everything will pass will come to pass. How all of that is very fragile, very ephemerous. So to answer your question, I think this idea that I can only wonder what what went on in his mind when he was faced with a challenge that would have quote unquote broken many people, you know, and immorally speaking or or or emotionally speaking. But in the end, he used that and that's the part I really admire. He used that platform. He used

have quote unquote broken many people, you know, and immorally speaking or or or emotionally speaking. But in the end, he used that and that's the part I really admire. He used that platform. He used his own image. He used everything that at his disposal like you said to advance research to advanced uh to advance stem cell research and spinal cord injury and all of those things. So he definitely made good use of this idea of I was know I portrayed somebody unbreakable before but now here I am quote unquote broken physically but mentally and morally still so strong and still making a difference. Yeah. Yeah. And I wanted to maybe come back to to the idea right this this myth of the superman which is this archetype of perfection morally physically etc etc and uh somehow I think we we have fallen into it right you today more we we are all trying to be uh super whatever Um, but it's so so difficult because we're not there, right? We're not there. We cannot just say, "Let me take a a pill uh and become what I'm not or take away the the the the uniform." Which, by the way, it's very interesting. Let's just pause here. It's very interesting to think about it. Um all all the um if you think I I I love another hero Batman, right? But Batman is the the normal man, the physical man. And to become Batman, he puts the cape, right? He actually masks himself. In the case of Superman, as a myth, uh he does the opposite. to be Superman. He actually took away his clothes as a normal person, his glass, right? And and and he unveiled. So the Superman in in in that sense, and this is film, right? I it's really interesting because it's inside. But anyways, what I'm thinking is for all of us this myth of uh oh, I want to be powerful. I want to be seen. I want to be, you know, have all the glitter, the lights, etc., etc. It's really impossible. And um and uh it was a niche uh that maybe brought that up, right? Uh many many decades. This is pre Hitler uh and and the Holocaust and all the the ravages of World War II. But he

really impossible. And um and uh it was a niche uh that maybe brought that up, right? Uh many many decades. This is pre Hitler uh and and the Holocaust and all the the ravages of World War II. But he he brought that idea of uh a a Superman to counter at the time when he wrote the book um what he felt was a very ah um apathetic society, right? The the society at the time that uh it was it was killing quote unquote killing all of us. we were zombies already instead of being super mad, right? Mad or super being. So, I'm I'm just thinking, isn't it interesting because I feel we're going through the same thing again. We're looking for external the surgical or portrayal that it doesn't really belong to us. We're we're bringing an idealized version of ourselves instead of being ourselves. Right. Absolutely. And I and I think you touched on an important topic there when you mentioned the idea of the Superman being used in a wrong way. And we don't have I mean we don't have to to go uh into too specific history here. But even even the ideas it's not the first time this happened. If we think about the Crusades. Yeah. What what what was that if not knowing someone else because you know in the name of Jesus when would Jesus want that when would that when was that ever the message it's quite the opposite so it's very unfortunate that because of our fragile and still developing stage you know as spirits we are or or developing states sorry as as spirits we're still misusing some of these ideas uh to do the evil to do evil deeds and that's something that was done with you know like I said with Jesus's message and with so other people's messages and also you know you mentioned more recently with with this notion of Hitler uh incorporating the idea of this being that was superior because that's what Superman is at the end right he's superior than everybody else from a from a beauty standpoint physical standpoint moral etc etc and this notion of utilizing this message to create so much

that's what Superman is at the end right he's superior than everybody else from a from a beauty standpoint physical standpoint moral etc etc and this notion of utilizing this message to create so much pain and so much suffering. And that's that's something that is very sad because obviously we can't we can't be Superman. We're not we're not there. And I think Joanna does touch on on a a point where the the journey um to become better is is we we we sometimes shy away from that in this search to become Superman or how you said it nowadays with all the the advancements in technology where we're trying to ex like extend our lives which is okay lifespan but also try to be perfect and never age and never have flaws and never show our true selves to the world. That's That's awesome. Um very very interesting. Um, and I was just listening to a a podcast uh this past few days on uh exactly aging and how there is actually no matter how many books are there, very few books are talking about the um the loss of identity because of our identities are so in threat intertwined with who we are as a role, right? Yes. Instead of being the development of identity that uh it it talks about the soul instead. So, how do we do when we no longer work? Uh we're retired and who are we? Well, we don't know. Or when we are parents and our children move on, but who who am I if I'm not a mother in in in that case? So on so forth. So very interesting um uh reference to aging aging and using that time well right to to to look in search for our own identity. So I want to maybe ask Yudi right what if the pursuit of this beingness super being right becoming that super being is in truth a disguised rejection of the self it could be and a self with with lower lower s uh not capital s lowercase s because it is it is in a sense uh a way for us I think to try to idealize Superman or try to impersonate Superman or become Superman or Superwomen. It what happens is we're trying to perhaps shy away from the fragilities that we

se uh a way for us I think to try to idealize Superman or try to impersonate Superman or become Superman or Superwomen. It what happens is we're trying to perhaps shy away from the fragilities that we have which we try to shy away or stay away not even think about uh all the shadow that we that we still carry because the Superman archetype in that there's no there's basically no shadow. So in this idea that you know we're trying to uh become something way superior than what we are right now but we fail to see that we still have a lot to grow. And one thing that uh Joanna talks about in her book and that really caught my attention was this uh this process or this uh frustrated attempt she calls to idealize oneself or for the person to idealize themselves as as superman or or superwoman actually robs the the robs us of the process of learning in a way. robs us not necessarily of the process because we will learn but robs us of this idea that we are learning we are experiencing we have the potential to become Christs eventually in billions of years perhaps of evolution of our own spirits but we have that potential in us and when we're trying to become something we're not something that is infallible and breakable and all those things that that becomes a problem because what happens is we idealize something that doesn't go through the process of of suffering to uh through death uh anguish all those things that you know superman doesn't have to go through and then we do so what happens when we are faced with the reality that we are not supermen or superwoman what do you think oh I love it and the the image that came to my mind Yodi um is when as kids we become um in contact with the idea of transformation information right from the um from the cocoon and crystis into a butterfly. And there have been many accounts of kids that feel so distraught by the fact that the the butterfly has to right. I was going to say yes. Yes. And then they cut it the cocoon. And by cutting this the what

here have been many accounts of kids that feel so distraught by the fact that the the butterfly has to right. I was going to say yes. Yes. And then they cut it the cocoon. And by cutting this the what looks to us a process of suffering, they're also cutting the ability for the butterfly to to fly away, right? So I think it's very interesting um why and we talked a lot about suffering before but why is it so hard for us to understand that going through the the pains sometimes is what's going to help us you know gain our our wings if you will right we yet uh we we strive for perfection right we strive for power as we are we start to to to to get better. We like, oh, let's also there's this ambition, this this desire to do more, which is good, right? This is not bad to want to to to grow, want to attempt, want to challenge ourselves. But uh becoming um what we want to be does not mean that we can escape pain, self-doubt and even death. Right. Oh yes. And the the thing is we are still in a in a plane in a very material plane of existence. We're still very much ruled by matter unfortunately, but it it's it's changing obviously gradually. That's the that's the key word here. Gradually that's changing both in our planet and in ourselves as a society and as human beings. But the idea is we cannot escape suffering. And I think you know we talked about in different episodes here in this podcast about pain and suffering and origins of suffering and Joanna is very clear and all the other you know spirits authors are very clear on this idea that the the suffering it's it's like the it's like the chisel that helps you know sculpt something that is already there like the Michelangelo idea right the something that is already there you're just removing the unnecessary parts. But that removal is is something that hurts. Even if we were to if we were to think that the marble has feelings, how would it feel having a chisel uh like go and work at him, you know, it's pro it would probably feel

is is something that hurts. Even if we were to if we were to think that the marble has feelings, how would it feel having a chisel uh like go and work at him, you know, it's pro it would probably feel pain if we could imagine that. But in the end, it sort of emerges as this beautiful piece and it understands that the chisel had a meaning, had a process. And when we are idealizing something that is unbreakable, something that bullets cannot penetrate, something that is unkillable and has all these powers of flight and this and that, we miss a very big step or very very big important steps in our evolution to become spirits that will rise above matter as spirits. Yeah. I think I'd like to to remind uh you and I, but also it's something that Jung himself reminded us that the shadow that we refuse to face, right? This is really interesting. The shadow we refuse to face will shape our lives from the dark. So, right, the Superman is just that. It's an archetypal mirage, an illusion and um build from the parts of ourselves that we actually don't want to feel because right it will be facing our frailties, our you know all the the material aspects of ourselves that we are we we have to face but we don't want to. And that may include uh fear, uh longing or even grieving. Um I I I've been reminded lately a lot about uh uh aging and the loss loss of mobility, loss of independence, loss of uh uh yourself. And in in in this process, we grieve, right? how how come I'm no longer who I thought I was. But anyways, I want to to maybe pivot if if you're okay with it to talk about the idea that uh we must like right we must go down before we can go up and uh again that uh referencing back to Jung in in his you know psychology uh the sense of individuation or integration or planitude. We could use many different words, right? The process of becoming whole begins not by escaping suffering but by moving through it. So the the thought to me um you know is that when we climb right to higher ground to the

ifferent words, right? The process of becoming whole begins not by escaping suffering but by moving through it. So the the thought to me um you know is that when we climb right to higher ground to the summit of a mountain perhaps um and uh that implies many different things right we have a broader vision but it implies that it it takes effort to to climb but it also means that there is a a valley that we a descent into it. And Jung um in in his uh allegorories, he talks about for us to be able to to really see uh we need to go into the the depth of our unconscious, our valley, right? What are uh the the the maybe the stories that we carry? What is our shadow? And when we do this, when we we have the courage to confront all the things that we absolutely don't want to uh which means uh we're going to find all of our weaknesses, all of the worst part of ourselves. We gain something amazing, which is the wisdom, right? And uh and the self now with a capital S we we we get to to know who we truly are our spiritual self and no longer able to you know uh see the mask for who we are because that is not so it's this I love it this mysterious center of our being that it is foreign but is at the core of who we are. What what are your thoughts? Can we talk a little bit about this idea of going down to go up again? Of course. Yeah. And I I I mean Yung was very Yung was very um big on this idea of uh of working on on the whole being, right? The whole individual. And it's it's it's what he he often calls like deep psychotherapy and things like that because exactly because of that with this idea that uh and even Jonah mentions this about this notion of the the deep psychotherapy or the deep therapy being able to break through the shell that the the shadow often hides. And so this idea of these corners that are of our let's call the corners of our being who are still very much not under light and then we we come with a flashlight and we're illuminating those those parts. So we understand that

orners that are of our let's call the corners of our being who are still very much not under light and then we we come with a flashlight and we're illuminating those those parts. So we understand that one they are there this because we're running from them or because we're trying to hide them does not mean they're they're going to go away. They are there. They are part of us. Uh so it it's important and pivotal in our our own development that we look for them. We work you know we we help like he always talking about integrating you know like integrating that part and understanding that it is part it I mean it is it is a a step in our evolution. It is a step in our development, you know, psychological, spiritual, that we will work on these things that we still have that need to be worked on. That these things that doesn't matter how much we try to avoid or hide or run away from, they're there and they're going to be there unless we truly embrace them and we work on them. And this is something already we already talked in different episodes of this podcast as well. But again, I think that it's it's very it's very important that we help uh ourselves by not trying to avoid the suffering or at least not understanding the meaning of suffering because the only thing that we do in avoiding in trying to run away from suffering is create more suffering because there's no there's no life we don't have the planitude just yet. We're still going to suffer and we must understand that and learn from that. Yeah. And it's interesting the the whole idea that I want to be something that I'm not. I don't want to suffer in the process of becoming what I want but I'm not. Lots of little paradoxes in this whole uh process. And um I believe in one of his book her books Joanna also talks about the misconceived idea that I'm going to go through my own uh sacrifice right I'm going to inflict pain on myself because uh I'm not going to avoid pain but I'm going to inflict pain so that uh in this religious uh

ved idea that I'm going to go through my own uh sacrifice right I'm going to inflict pain on myself because uh I'm not going to avoid pain but I'm going to inflict pain so that uh in this religious uh zealousness to to to to be what I'm not and and that doesn't work either. It's almost as if we need to be able to be patient to embrace organically naturally all the suffering or the pain that will come our way when they come our way. Right? Because the the the journey of the hero uh perhaps not of the Superman but of the hero is really the journey of someone who confronts the giant, the unknown, the forest, right? I'm I'm using terms in in some of the mythology of the hero, but going to what is scares you to death, but having the courage to do it. And it's the the the act of confronting what is maybe bigger than you, much stronger than you, much more powerful. But in the act of confronting that we really become the hero, right? Oh yeah. Because it's there's a much bravery in confronting oneself and and conquering uh those, you know, the dark corners that we talked about. And I think there's much bravery in that. And you mentioned before, I I forgot to talk about this too, but the valley, the idea of of going down and like in in the valleys and all of those things. And uh Joanna also talking about how, you know, when we're we're when we are down in a valley, we have limited view, limited vision perhaps, right? Yeah. But as we climb up and the climb up is often hard. So as we climb up and we go up, we can see more of what's out there. We have a much better view of all the beauty of everything. And one thing that is very interesting that happens is as we climb up, we realize in and I'm going to put it in quotation marks how small we actually are. Yeah. and how there's so much out there and then we become inspired I think and triumphant to just uh do better and just to see how everything is sort of connected and you know and even with the nature I you mentioned the the the cocoon right

d then we become inspired I think and triumphant to just uh do better and just to see how everything is sort of connected and you know and even with the nature I you mentioned the the the cocoon right nature is perfect is God's creation so of course that in everything there is a message for us to learn if we are looking to learn from everything around us and that is a big message because if we try to pry uh uh away I mean the caterpillar from its cocoon or if we try to do that to ourselves or or do that to someone else as well. Let me change that person. Let me open their cocoon so they can already uh escape their suffering and emerge a butterfly. What we're going to be doing is causing more pain. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And it's in in that case, right? I I really like what you said when we try to pry away the suffering in the loved ones, for example, right? When we see our our kids growing and we're like, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let me let me insulate from any type of of danger, of distress, anything." Yeah. Yeah. and and uh and we're somehow as parents um hurting the chances of that child uh to to to grow. But uh let's pivot one last time. I think we have a little bit more time today. Um can we can we talk perhaps um about the the path of integration? uh when we discuss perhaps and reference uh an amazing one of the best texts found in the gospel according to spiritism by Alan Cardc um um it's chapter 17 right uh being perfect which is so there's such a symmetry to what we're discussing today but then he he he talks about the characters or characteristics of a good person a good man. And and I was just wondering, can we maybe talk about it? What did he say? And why is is it such a an important text for everyone to reference if you have time? Because it it really brings us so many um moments of reflection, right, about our day-today life. It's very in the flesh, if you will. It's in Yes. our waking up and having breakfast whatever the mundane things that we confront but

so many um moments of reflection, right, about our day-today life. It's very in the flesh, if you will. It's in Yes. our waking up and having breakfast whatever the mundane things that we confront but how to do that and be a good person right absolutely I'm I'm glad you brought it up because of course there's so much uh wisdom in the gospel according to spiritism by Alan Cardc and in the you know chapter like you said chapter 17 this idea of the good man um or be perfect. You know, he's talking about it's almost a guideline. I like to think it of Mars as like a guideline for us to sort of like follow as much as we can, but really do our best to follow because a lot of that we can already follow if we just decide not to, you know, not to be lazy or not to be afraid of other people's reactions and all of that. So he's talking about you know this idea of of the good man or no he uses obviously the word man to refer the human being um somebody that is you know observes the law of love the law of charity um justice you know all those things. So working on humility, working on charity, working on um not wish, not uh harming other people or doing harm to others, you know, being good and just uh observing the laws, you know, of God and and putting the faith in God, using what we have uh like materially speaking, the wealth and intelligence and anything we have at our disposal here to help others. So humility, charity, um no justice, all those things. And the main message I think too that he talks about in this one is and I I mean this is at least a message that uh when we study we take from that is this is not necessarily about um like religious labels or appearances or things like that. It's about the actions and the intentions behind those actions. So the intention truly being you know humble good being forgiving you know forgiving others forgiving yourselves being kind and all those things that's why I say it's it's like a guideline almost like a checklist that we can try to follow and

le good being forgiving you know forgiving others forgiving yourselves being kind and all those things that's why I say it's it's like a guideline almost like a checklist that we can try to follow and this way we're going to be constructing our own good self. Let's call it good self instead of good man. Yeah. And and I and I love it uh as as this checklist as you put it right. Have you done this? Have you thought about blah blah blah? How do you see yourself as it as we relate to this uh this good person right this idealized person but it's not idealized because we have an external factor and right we born in a different planet that gives us the invisibility uh it's idealized but it's possible it is possible so yeah it's it's what we can do but One of the things that I love about it uh it this is my maybe perverse side, right? But uh in in the text um he the good man uh he does this, he does that, he does that and he knows all the troubles and issues with life, all the painful moments, all the disappointments. He knows that those are, if we will, tests for us to really see that we are progressing in in in this development of uh who we are into being something better. And uh but I love it that uh um in the text uh it includes and he accepts, right? The good man accepts those tests without complaint. And I'm like, "Oh, Yudi, we we are such a society of complaint, right? That, yeah, I can do I can do, but I'm going to complain about it." You got to be ready to to listen to my complaint. That's how I know I'm not a good man. As Kardak put, yeah, I do because we do complain. We do complain a lot. who who here I mean embraces suffering all types of suffering as they come and just as tests and this is of course where what we're trying to achieve and the more we talk about it the more we study the more we try to put in practice understanding that there will be a lot of of of mistakes along the way there will be a lot of moments of weaknesses in which we just rebel we revolt but it's how how do we actually

to put in practice understanding that there will be a lot of of of mistakes along the way there will be a lot of moments of weaknesses in which we just rebel we revolt but it's how how do we actually bounce back how do we actually try to improve and I think that's when Kardak is talking about that that sort of acceptance in a in a good way acceptance of the trials without complaint. This is something we've seen you know like St. Augustine and Paul and Mother Teresa like all those those spirits Shiko Shavier, right? All those spirits that we know Devaldo that they come and they already went through a lot of complain complaining in previous existences. Certainly, you know, but the fact is we can get there and and remembering too that the complaining is not just uh speaking out loud. Could be just in here as well. If we're complaining, if we're revoling just in here, it also has an effect and I'm pointing to my my head meaning in the thoughts. Yes. Yes. It's a very good point. And uh one of the things that uh in in in you know you should start to wrap it up where we're talking here. Um it it is all about uh the potentiality that we all have, right? Um yes. And this is for me and maybe I I can have the audacity to say for you as well and for all of us who are in this life today. It it is the question that we are human beings and we are imperfect beings, right? And the journey isn't toward becoming that idealized perfect the superman right that's not the journey is about how can I integrate how can I uh look at myself how can I find all the things that I'm not doing yet I know the checklist is there but I'm still complaining or the checklist there and I failed to one or two or three of the items we because we do right but it is this journey that uh we look at ourselves I'm looking to my right and left as in yeah I still am not there but I am in a journey toward integrating the path the parts of me that can be there and the parts of me that cannot be there yet. So in doing that I can reconcile

left as in yeah I still am not there but I am in a journey toward integrating the path the parts of me that can be there and the parts of me that cannot be there yet. So in doing that I can reconcile of if I may say so the many selves that we have within and I'm not talking about multiple personality disorder here right but the many selves the many attributes that is in different levels of maturity and we can reconcile them because we are promoting I I love the the the visual that you gave like maybe the detectives that go into the house looking for clues and it's always in the dark and they have the little tiny in their flashlight and it's like you know I'm looking and uh I have to say to you every time I see a movie or detective story I say turn on the light but they don't they going to with a flashlight looking for clues that are hidden and That's really us. That's the process. Yeah. That's the process we go through because and I I I I mean when before you even said like, "Oh, I want them to turn on the light." I was already thinking because yeah, even as Jesus says, too much light and blind, you know, and and this idea that we must I mean, we we must and we only have the flashlight meaning a a a little little um what's it call? a little part of light that's just illuminating a specific point, you know, a spec a specific thing. We cannot just flip the switch and turn everything on and see all the the the corners we've been like the shadow and all of that that's been in those corners because that would overwhelm us. And well that's something that Joanna talks about very wisely in her books about this idea of not um removing all this this these instruments that the ego has been maintaining you know using to maintain itself. This idea that the the the integration with the self must occur gradually and and you know naturally. We can't we must understand it is a process. We we go one corner at a time with the flashlight. We can just try to flick uh flip the switch.

h the self must occur gradually and and you know naturally. We can't we must understand it is a process. We we go one corner at a time with the flashlight. We can just try to flick uh flip the switch. Yeah. So uh maybe Yuri the true hero is not the Superman, right? The true hero maybe it's all of us. All of us who has the courage to choose to feel right and to choose to fall. but also to choose to rise. Uh to all of us who dare uh who dares to walk the inner path, right, and not escape it, to be in the world, but to use this experience that we're living through to transform ourselves within it without losing who we truly are. Right. Absolutely. having the courage to go through that you know that um what was that was that sentence Christ is the is the inner man achieved or inner being achieved through the the path of self-nowledge something like that but the idea is there you know the idea of this individuation of this you know the the in full integration with the self and and we have Christ as you know our as an archetype but also as something that is our uh end goal, you know, it's it's where we're going to get. It's a spirit of first order, first class if we look in the spirits book by Alan Cardc. So, it is something that we will eventually get there when we go through this full process of self-nowledge and working on ourselves and doing all those things that Cardex mentioned in the the checklist for the good men naturally. When we are able to do all of that without an effort anymore, being humble, being kind, being forgiving, then we'll we'll get there. And you don't need to be a psychologist, you don't need to have a psychologist, psychotherapist, you don't need to be religious, you don't need to be a spiritist. All of us will naturally get to be that good man, right? Um yeah, the the law of progress is unstoppable and it doesn't matter. And we're talking about moral progress, not religious progress, moral progress, you know. So it's it's not circumscribed to a

ht? Um yeah, the the law of progress is unstoppable and it doesn't matter. And we're talking about moral progress, not religious progress, moral progress, you know. So it's it's not circumscribed to a specific religious identity or a specific uh sex or gender or race, quote unquote race, whatever it is, it's it is happening. It's going to continue to happen. It's a part of us to see how fast or how slow we will be going in this journey. Yeah. Oh, this is so good. Yi, it's time to say goodbye. Our conversation is so good. I really appreciate and just for all of us here, I just wanted to to, you know, just to conclude to wrap it up, right? We explored several uh topics, right? including the myth of the Superman and uh how it opposes the idea contained in in spiritual evolution in spiritism but the idea that uh uh our journey as immortal spirits will achieve wholeness at some point you don't need to be what you're not right and and I think the dream of the superman yi which you know is highlighted with the that archetype of the Superman leads us to this curious discussion around as we mentioned the descent and ascent and the path of integration and I just love it. It's such a good way to reflect about who and what is the true hero in us. Is it Superman or is it just us? all of us who choose to feel to fall as I mentioned to to to rise to walk that path of individuation. So just before I say goodbye, I want to say this is truly an invitation for all of us to not escape the world. Right? Let's not go into craziness pretending that we are not living a material experience, an experience that's all very individual. your personality, your likes, your dislikes, your failures, your complaints, right? But we're here to transform ourselves within this context. But as I said, this is time to say goodbye. And I do hope this conversation has inspired you as much as it has inspired me and so that we can reflect on our own journey which is very personal very individual. And until next

time to say goodbye. And I do hope this conversation has inspired you as much as it has inspired me and so that we can reflect on our own journey which is very personal very individual. And until next time, I just want to say let us all stay good, stay curious, stay compulsionate, patient, and strive to have the courage to to go into our deeper truths within. For those of you who have not seen other episodes, in other words, that this is the first time that you're listening to this program, please take a note that the psychology and spirituality talks are weekly and are based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus. We we do hope that you enjoyed our talk today. And I want to thank you, Yudi, and all of our sponsors. and they are Monsanium, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council and Army Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the Medical Spiritist Association. We'll be back next week with another episode. So, thank you and stay tuned. Bye everyone. Bye-bye. Thank you. See you next time.