Ep 62 - Searching for Solitude

hello everyone welcome to the psychology in spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion yeah I am your host Marcia trano and with me are Dr an fona and J horn go hi everyone if this is the first time you're watching this podcast like program please note that our program psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna deangeles and we're here with her with her content because we are offering this safe space to confront compare correlate and expand spirituality Concepts from a psychological lens bringing to all of us some insights some tips advice all of it to help us lead a better life I am here with both of you because we're going to be talking about the notion that we're all searching for Solitude and I'd like just to to bring a little bit here the fact this is words from Joanna d'angels when she says the modern society has witnessed unimaginable advances of knowledge and Technology yet we suffer through restlessness and uh we're doing this realizing that while this all of this achievements they have somehow broaden our Horizons of understanding yet we're unable to solve our ongoing emotion challenges but before we start our conversation I would like to just recognize that some organizations that are sponsoring our program Man United States spirit Federation International Spirits Council thank you so much and uh of course the the spir um Amy Brazil and we' love to also uh do a plug to the work of Yung in Brazil in August but make sure that you take the time to hit subscribe if you haven't already done and uh if you'd like to check our other channels you can do so by going to spiritist us finally if you have any questions any comments any feedback please do write them down in the chat window love to hear from you and perhaps uh get some of your content or your feedback into a future episode Jada anay you know we have achieved so much and as I said before we we are all just re Restless we are alone we're so empty it feels like and uh it it feels

tent or your feedback into a future episode Jada anay you know we have achieved so much and as I said before we we are all just re Restless we are alone we're so empty it feels like and uh it it feels somehow that we never have enough can one of you talk to me about that uh that idea how can we achieve a a sense of solitude well hello everyone so before I asked just to join me um I wanted to think with you all that are listening to this podcast like and watching us um why Janna gangel talks about Solitude in this beautiful book that uh she called Awakening of the spirit I think it's so beautiful that uh she wrote an entire book book about Awakening the spirit why is it so important for us to awaken our spirits and uh in that psycholog in Yung because we all know that Janna uses a lot of Yung and other authors because she's U intending to do this bridge of uh everything that other the psychologist and psychiat uh have studied written and researched with spiritist knowledge and spirited psychology so I was wondering when uh we decided to have this talk uh about this title Awakening the spirit and the times that we live that we are living in so because Janna talks about human beings as Mara said kind of um she uses the I love you know the images that Joanna brings to us she talks about um this great and unimaginable flights of knowledge and Technology we are like airplanes Rockets right with lots of computers and internet and uh lots of Technology but struggling surprised she says in the murky Waters of restlessness and suffering realizing that the Millennia of culture and civilization that have broadened the our Horizons of understanding did not solve the great emotional challenges so I was wondering and I I wanted to give you um us all an example of a of a client in the many many years ago um uh so that we can have start our discussion and I I would love to hear Jad about that about why Joanna writes an entire book uh on the necessity of Awakening our spirits and it was I think

ears ago um uh so that we can have start our discussion and I I would love to hear Jad about that about why Joanna writes an entire book uh on the necessity of Awakening our spirits and it was I think 15 or 20 years ago oh this person that I remember uh he kept saying he came to me in Psychotherapy and he was a lawyer okay he had a kind of success he was a a good lawyer with many clients he was very well-dressed okay very fashionable and all that and but he kept saying his main goal was to be what he called a super person oh I love it right so it's it's a if I may so you have a patient long time ago that he is looking for uh signals of external success right EXA so yeah go ahead exactly and um thisen um I have never heard the term super person it's like like Superman do you want to be Superman no it's not the comics I want to be a super person then I said okay so describe to me what is a super person and then he said well a super person you know and I super person is that person that it's always um always um flying to meetings and to meet a lot of new people and to meet professional challenges so a super person would be always in the airport of course yeah right and would be always in meetings and Jonah talks about that a lot exactly yeah always in meetings and encounters and challenges and this and that always in the Persona our social mask in a sense he didn't say the Persona he didn't know Yung but he said well I want to be always meeting new people um new challenges professional challenges always in the airport getting to a plane going to different places I want to be a super person and I said okay uh because he was already was kind of successful and he said yes but I want to always have a car you know um a nice car that I can take my clients for instance if I am in a mid that my clients can see me arrive in this car a nice car whatever and um to go to good restaurants uh and to have you know all this stuff and nice parties so for me this would be a super person he never

at my clients can see me arrive in this car a nice car whatever and um to go to good restaurants uh and to have you know all this stuff and nice parties so for me this would be a super person he never said anything anything at that point about family intimacy the Joanna talks about that the need for intimacy see he never said anything about feelings and imagine that people he came uh for Psychotherapy and for psychiatric evaluation because he was depressed so Jonah talks a lot about that depression and anxiety and people having he had um let let's say a lot of what he wanted already then we are talking about the ego his ego wanted but he wanted more you know more more even more because you know uh to go let's say traveling abroad once every few months it was not enough he wanted to be like ever couple of weeks in the airplane going interesting places and meeting new people new challenges uh I said okay but how is that going to take you out of the depression and in his mind he would say well because I will be a super person and a super person like let's say in his mind okay I'm simplifying because it's many many uh session and months talking about that um it's almost like uh he didn't have insight about that but his explanation would be he wouldn't have time to be depressed he would had such pleasure meeting new people new professional challenges that you know he didn't understand why he was depressed so he thought he was depressed depressed because he was not a super person he didn't have uh yet all of the you know the the amount of meetings incounters travels cars or whatever uh so in his way of thinking he was depressed because he was not a super person so um after we U you know the need that Janna talks about Solitude the need for Solitude the need for um the the rest the murky Waters of restlessness and suffering he was Restless he was suffering he was depressed but but he didn't didn't realize why he was suff suffering so um Joanna talks about all this she talks about the hot

ers of restlessness and suffering he was Restless he was suffering he was depressed but but he didn't didn't realize why he was suff suffering so um Joanna talks about all this she talks about the hot technological all this technology that we have and having an immense gap between the hot technological and the spiritual being so in my uh point of view now many many years later um and wish at that point I knew Joanna and I knew all her you know writings and um because at at that point I I didn't have the idea I was already starting to read Yung okay and that psychology but uh but I was pretty much fren in a sense okay let's talk about the his complexes well his projections and his identification with the father figure the mother figure this is this is the personal unconscious this is a a way but it doesn't answer it helps a little but it doesn't uh help the person to understand what it's really missing uh in a sense of his deep self capital S self Capital that Jonah talks about she says the Deep self so we could think of higher self or Y self with capital S so our um higher Consciousness because the higher conscious Consciousness according to Joanna is our spiritual consciousness so okay we can understand a little bit about our complexes and deal better with the challenges of the ego of course but to feel this Gap that Joanna is talking about this immense gap between all this technology right all these achievements that we have um we we have at this point as human beings and all these you know pleasures of the ego that if we work and stress ourselves too much in this material life we can maybe achieve but it doesn't explain the Gap uh with the spiritual being that uh we are deep very deep inside and it there's a calling these days that we understand better that we awaken our spirit so I will just ask Jetta to explain to us better from the spiritist point of view knowledge why is this so important J you think do you think okay hi hi everyone so good to be here hi missa um wow you you you mentioned so

tta to explain to us better from the spiritist point of view knowledge why is this so important J you think do you think okay hi hi everyone so good to be here hi missa um wow you you you mentioned so many fascinating things and I and this uh case that you brought actually it made me very sad um in a way because when U it's so realistic the idea of being a super person but when I come and say I mean in a world that we have so much about superheroes right you come and say I'm realistic I want to be a super person it means as well that you are preventing yourself from dreaming from bring being creative um you know in the same token that uh I know that to become a a super person is hard not a woman of course you wanted to become a super person just look at a woman right I to say that I had to say that that's what the world expects from us right to perform and to do everything in every field of life now you have you know you know what I'm talking about but then I I was thinking you know in his um uh Alo reasonable request he puts a aside the dream he puts aside the spirit he puts aside the things that are important and to him is very much like many of us The Observers of uh you know one time we talk about the the celebrities the 15 minutes of fame you know um we that when we look at them it seemed that they have you know this glamorous life and I want the glamorous life but as you said and I think it's very much in in sync with what we are talking about here uh he had already so much but it was not enough depression and he thought that if he would be feeling this void more having more things and definitely man maintaining his mind occupied he wouldn't have to think about himself and this is the Awakening of the spirit that that Joanna the angelist talks about there is one phrase that we we like very much and we we repeat that a lot uh when we are talking about spiritism from one of the books of uh Leon the KN the writer the spiritist a spiritist researcher uh in the book life and

we we like very much and we we repeat that a lot uh when we are talking about spiritism from one of the books of uh Leon the KN the writer the spiritist a spiritist researcher uh in the book life and Destin when he said say that intelligence in this in this sense we are talking about the intelligence of the spirit lies dormant in Plants it dreams in animals and only in humans does it awaken become self-aware take ownership of itself and attain Consciousness so now we are in a human stage but we are still trying to prolong those the the the reminder of those other states that kept us in Slumber so to say I don't want to take responsibility I don't want to have time to be with with me and my thoughts and uh when it comes to this uh topic that we are talking about today you know the confrence ation between us having to please and satisfy the demands of the ego versus what us as a spirit is longing and it it's for no other reason that also in the book empty empty lives um chapter 28 one of the angelist mentions that when we look around we have achieve so much in terms of knowledge in terms of of um culture uh technology all of those things but it's still when we look at the moral structure of the being it's not progressing in the same reach and um and the thing is um we are getting too distracted uh today with all the device you know that we have and the resources social media you know people go to social media because they don't want to think about themselves they they just to want to look what others are doing and what should I be doing as well like you were saying and and and for us to reach this state of fullness of plitude we need to face ourselves and this is what the Awakening of the spirit means uh you know to to know our purpose and this is the purpose the purpose is not just to try to fill a void uh it's to actually face us as an immortal spirit I love it I love it I wanted to to perhaps bring a couple of thoughts that uh Joanna um mentions and it's in a now we're on her third book

fill a void uh it's to actually face us as an immortal spirit I love it I love it I wanted to to perhaps bring a couple of thoughts that uh Joanna um mentions and it's in a now we're on her third book right we talked about the Awakening of the spirit we we we mention uh empty lives and I'd like to to perhaps bring another book that she wrote uh the integral human being and she brings that idea that we we you and I right all of us we human beings we we live in Two Worlds uh two universes the concrete Universe in the the universe of abstract perceptions but she mentions them that uh uh this culture that we mered on right uh both of you mentioned um those the the Modern Man where there is so much uh of achievements even in art and and when I talk about art here I mention uh perhaps theater music oh video films novels it's uh J when you talked about the dream and the imagin that's where Humanity brings a lot of good stuff right we create that imagination we bring and we share and as such we then become observers right and we the problem is when we become only observers because what Joanna also mentions in that book is that as much as we may be distracted and prefer to observe the other right including I think from a freuden perspective uh in the projections right but we should be reminded that we can be observed right we are the object of someone else's observations and we can also observe ourselves right we can become The Observers who observe ourselves and I think this is quite interesting this concept of uh understanding that from Escape mechanism um and and an please correct me if I'm I'm going too much in the left field here but uh in in the realm of um skap mechanism the ego right we project or we transfer we look for the other or even things to avoid looking ourselves it's too painful to look at ourselves but then she says we can really start to transform um even our complexes and our unconscious conflicts into a notion very powerful knowledge because as observers

it's too painful to look at ourselves but then she says we can really start to transform um even our complexes and our unconscious conflicts into a notion very powerful knowledge because as observers we start to protect ourselves from looking at the chaos that reside within and I think your patient anai was just too scared and I I'm of course trying to read into something I don't I don't know anything about but I would say if it was me um expressing the same types of behavior or or thoughts it would be just this incredible fear to look at all the conflicts all the chaos that resides Within Myself right but uh Joanna back again in her book the integral human being she says when we're able to observe and put that distance observe ourselves but put that safety we are now able to avoid what would be otherwise unbearable to us maybe and the figure that comes to my mind is the Medusa right if you look at the Medusa you become a stone and Peres in the myth of the Medusa he gets her to look at herself through the shield as a mirror and then she comes right she she turns into stone and he's able to kill her but the idea here is that that separation between the subject me and the object myself will give us that uh that ability to start to experience everything that I go through including the the inner chaos and their potential destructive effects right so if we start to be able to to get the tool to to be brave to be courageous to look at ourselves we may be able to convert what could be this anguish this anxiety this idea that that Restless uh Restless um and state of mind to just the best of the best I love what you said uh Jada in the quote by Den in the book after death right where uh we we we hear that that idea that awareness is where Humanity awakens and so it all comes together with the idea that it is so critical for all of us to transfer that life that external life a life of form right to look at that external life of for and emotion so that we can be um uh filled with the

ith the idea that it is so critical for all of us to transfer that life that external life a life of form right to look at that external life of for and emotion so that we can be um uh filled with the tools of Reflections and looking ourselves and then looking at what are the real accomplishments right and uh and I think and I just uh to to finalize what I'm saying here is the fact that your patient could only see external grasping for uh what is validated by our material world and the sense of power including the superp power be everywhere do everything have all the the check marks of what is to be successful and yet for us to be truly successful we need to look at ourselves to look at uh our emotion in that idea of Consciousness at that point we're ready to attain our solitude what are your thoughts yeah I think it's great the way that you guys have uh have uh put everything together I I was listening to you and um of course remembering other moments of uh that case in this in Psychotherapy and we all know that the ego has its defense mechanisms right and Joanna also says that the ego is because Yun says that the ego is one of the complexes of the self related to the self right so of course it's something really hard if you are freuden because for fraudin there is only the ego Consciousness right so that um that there is a higher cons Consciousness that uh utilizes the ego that it's the ego would be the center of our Consciousness in this personality but it's actually okay the main probably um Consciousness that is doing the work okay because we have complexes as Mara said so complex are the little people inside of ourselves the inner child the complex of the father the mother other complexes uh but so Janna says that um the ego uh this uh is this complex this Consciousness the ego conscious is like an achievement of the self and if we put together this spiri is knowledge of course we are here this life is very precious as just said about Leon Den that it's beautiful is very

ego conscious is like an achievement of the self and if we put together this spiri is knowledge of course we are here this life is very precious as just said about Leon Den that it's beautiful is very poetic this Evolution that he talks about of actually is of the spirit the being conscious of itself but um closer than or manifesting the Divine psych because Janna jelis also says the human being aiming to promote the ego to the detriment of the self if we forget that we have this higher self this higher cons yeah moves away from the Divine psych she says its origin and its goal so our origin and our goal just as Leon says right so what I'm thinking is that okay so we have uh gotten at this point in our spiritual Evolution the right to be here the right to live in this p uh this personality this moment at this moment with this ego let's say with this Consciousness so it's the it's a right it's an achievement of our spirit okay it's um let's say it's the result of a lot of struggles for for um broaden our Consciousness as you said Sam um that we have got to this point but the trick is that the ego doesn't know about that until it knows because Jonah also talks about indiv individuation she talks about Abraham maslo American psychologist great so our needs in the spiritual growth he and in the development of our our development in this personality it's great but and so yung's concept of individuation that exactly as J said that to develop to express the potentials of our soul so J was talking about creativity intuition that Jah talks about in this when she talks about the need for Solitude the need as Mara said to for us to observe ourselves to know ourselves deeply in this life but I understand and that uh client that patient of mine was uh in the beginning of a process he was more or less I think was less than 40 so he was late 30s right so in in there's also the cycle of life here that we live so in this at this point in our psychology we are pretty much still in the ego phase

or less I think was less than 40 so he was late 30s right so in in there's also the cycle of life here that we live so in this at this point in our psychology we are pretty much still in the ego phase develop in the ego we haven't got to the point that we call middle age that today's like more 50s that for is middle age more or less we are correcting in in Psychology all the the ages because we are thanks God and we are living a a lot so um we are going slower in a sense in the process of individuation but we are having this great opportunity to get to get old yeah develop wisdom and to uh really understand our individuation so that it's basically to develop all the potentialities of our soul of our pych here in this life to learn whatever we decided to learn as a spirits and to Manifest this and as jna says to move not away from the Divine pite but towards the Divine psych right toward God and that it's our go spiritually speaking so what Marshall was talking about us observing uh observing the ourselves the sight so this need for Solitude we have to understand I think from the psychological point of view that um why is that so easy for the ego asna is warning us pay attention um you know for us to oh I like freuden say well that there's the the um the need the the desires right that come from within from the unconscious and then we have the super ego saying no no you you shouldn't do that you shouldn't try to do that and and then the ego is in the middle of this stuff that it's what Freud discover in a sense how the ego has to protect itself and then develop um mechanisms of the fense but we we are like aund and at least aund and more years from this uh way of thinking about the our psych that Freud started and then Yung goes deeper and then Jonah is going even deeper right so but we have to understand that for instance for for that client he was pretty much as Mara said defending himself first of all from his complexes so all Psychotherapy all it is a kind of a a moment of

but we have to understand that for instance for for that client he was pretty much as Mara said defending himself first of all from his complexes so all Psychotherapy all it is a kind of a a moment of solitude because you are work together with a psychotherapist but um really doing what Marsha was talking um really trying to observe yourself with the help of someone that is doing like an auxiliary ego let's say oh but you you told me that and that and how does that relate something like that but with the objective aiming to strengthen the ego you know to make it a little more mature correct that can have this strength to uh like to face ourselves as Marsha was saying because the ego has to do this job and it's not easy the ego being the center of our Consciousness is doing all the observation analyses and at some point when we are mature enough we know even if we don't know with our ego Consciousness then the self our higher self starts manifesting more like as just said through dreams creativity insights uh intuitions synchronicities and then at some point the you know I think he's kind of um there's a bombarding the bombarding the ego said okay I give up what do you want to talk about something like that uh but when we get a little older that's why it's so important for us to get older you know to don't be afraid of old age because it's wisdom people and um this OB I love it I I have to stop to say thank you I must confess everyone that I'm struggling as I reach my third third right the the the remaining of the days I am struggling with something that I never never thought I would but it is this beautiful invitation let us welcome every wrinkle every new year every new source of wisdom because that's when we finally get to the point that uh let go of the superpower the illusion of superpower and become our true super if I may say self right the authentic self perfect because so we need to have less fear as Marsha was talking about we need to make our ego or egos stronger more

f superpower and become our true super if I may say self right the authentic self perfect because so we need to have less fear as Marsha was talking about we need to make our ego or egos stronger more mature but not uh doing like you know we we when we spoil a child I want this I want that I want to be younger I want this surgery I want this uh this food for instance I want this and that no um we have to discipline ourselves and to do that we need to acknowledge okay our complexes our you know the needs of the ego and just put everybody to talk like United Nations United complexes okay let's sit here around the table you know like Sir Arthur we talked about that why because we need this uh this uh to get closer to our our higher selves and this is made in solitude not in parties not struggling of course we need to work and we need this and that but not overdoing it yeah and um this need for observation it's I I love when Jonah talks about the Divine psych and she talks a lot about uh Cosmic Consciousness correct if we are sparkles of this Divine psych of God the transcended how however you want um to call uh you know God if we are Sparkles and so we need to awaken a just were saying our potentialities our so the potentialities of our souls so all this um Divine Psych is in a in a sense it is also within uh within us we could say of course we are in the little bits that we can manifest the little lights that we can manifest if it's little in the beginning because we know that um for instance uh I love the name uh I think it's um his hebra name uh of Jesus as yosua right yes yes uh so that's his real name that he said everything that I do you can do yourselves right and and better and better right better yeah but how is that in solitude you would live perhaps more yes okay I'm sorry we have to just watch out for the inflation of the eego right but um one of the things that I wanted to talk before we leave and just uh surfing the wave that you you guys um just provoked uh that Joanna talks about

watch out for the inflation of the eego right but um one of the things that I wanted to talk before we leave and just uh surfing the wave that you you guys um just provoked uh that Joanna talks about selfrealization and it remind me that what is uh you guys think she's talking about when she says um that the lack of time for selfrealization what do you understand that she means about self-realization that we can achieve through Solitude meditation and this self analysis that Mara and J were talking about what do you guys think that you meant by self-realization yeah one thing that uh uh in all that you were saying and Marcia as well commented before uh we have to remember that he human beings are like she says here are gregarious beings right so we we need life in society and we learn from each other and as Marcia was talking before in terms of observation why it is easier for us to learn about uh imperfections and virtues when we are observing others because we have blind spots when anal analyzing ourselves maybe not that much in relation to virtues but of course definitely in relation to imperfection so when I start observing others and start looking at their behavior and if I take the time to you know to really analyze I don't think this is a good way of uh doing things or behaving towards others uh the next question should be this self-realization in terms of you know asking yourself the con the the the the question um do I do that as well you know and uh when I have the courage to face it when uh you know the the the self-awareness I guess that goes along with self-realization which is always I like to emphasize that uh it never with a name off putting us down but you know really observing ourself and say you know I I I may like myself I may think that I'm I'm a great person but I want to be a super person I want to be better and how can I be better if I don't look at myself and and one of the things that it says here although you know we we need this time and uh to reflect

t I want to be a super person I want to be better and how can I be better if I don't look at myself and and one of the things that it says here although you know we we need this time and uh to reflect upon ourselves and where we are now uh where we've been because it's good for us to think about where we were before compared to where we are now to see our progress I mean even if you are stagnant it's it's not that bad it's not good but it's not that bad and and there she mentions one thing that we are social animals we need this contact with each other we learn from each other and that's why I mean we we have people with the so many different talents because I have to rely upon other to do things that I cannot do a and I mean and she's so in tune with science that when we see the you know the Pyramid of Melo for instance she mentions I mean that or or better yet he mentions like you know when we are more in the Primitive stage we are just thinking about our psychological needs food Water Shelter then it's my safety my security but then comes a third third point where she mentions here I cannot live without love and sensation of belong G that is why you know she says uh if we do not go after situations or you know uh relationship that can provide this kind of emotional content to us and again according to Mar we don't even go to the next step with is self-esteem because if I'm not Lov like it accepted uh you know have the um you know uh conscience of belonging how how can I I value myself and what I am so it's it's a stage as she says here we go from one point to the other and it's interesting because we talked about on the knee and and what he says and and she saids this whole process of maturation you know is with an name to awake the dormant inner potentialities that we have and where it comes self-realization when I say oh my God I'm all of a sudden I have to face it totally different totally different scenario let's talk about ourselves right Mia we we had from one country to

ere it comes self-realization when I say oh my God I'm all of a sudden I have to face it totally different totally different scenario let's talk about ourselves right Mia we we had from one country to another or many and it was so many different scenarios and and and upbringings and all that and we had to reinvent ourselves and knowing that we could do that was absolutely great having this self-realization I don't know how I did it but somehow it was in me there was a potentiality that was dormant and I didn't know that I have so if we give the opportunity for this to happen it is going to happen I I'd like to to perhaps um answer to an's question right when she asked what is self-realization and I love that you you uh discuss the the maslo pyramid right uh but you mentioned that if you go all the way and you if you don't love you cannot go any further and my words here n uh before we close is that is exactly at the center of this discussion today because we must love but we also most important need to self-love to look at ourselves and accept all that we are in our chaotic content of my inner world or not but uh the ability to accept to love is when I can easily attain that sense of solitude which is being in Harmony on my own because I know who I am or or I'm learning to to know who I am and I'm okay with that I love myself regardless great and um finally fulfillment our own potentiality as we said I just wanted to finish then with the small but beautiful sentence by Jonah dangeles yes that I think it's uh says everything uh that uh we have been talking about she says it is in silence that one can find God enjoy peace unravel enigmas and self-improve isn't that beautiful so it is we all need a little more silence and Solitude absolutely love it thank you thank you both for being here and tackling a subject that is particularly important to me and uh I would like to invite all of you who are here watching this uh program with us to come back next week thank you and have a wonderful

and tackling a subject that is particularly important to me and uh I would like to invite all of you who are here watching this uh program with us to come back next week thank you and have a wonderful time bye bye by