Ep 55 - The Origins of Suffering

hello everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I your host mercano and with me is Dr Julio padovan for those who have not met Julio he's a researcher at the Rockefeller University as well as n junk associate professor at the department of chemistry at York College New York City Julia holds several academic degrees he's a lectur uh in both physical sciences but so happy that he also speaks a lot about spiritism Julia was first introduced to spiritis when he was only 15 years old and he's particularly interested in study and explaining this right jul this found foundation between spiritist Concepts and and how we think so he will be great at our discussion today and I want to thank you Julia for leading this conversation we're GNA be talking today about uh suffering I know it's a horrible thing but uh what are the origins of suffering what is the role of pain and something very important as a component of it all which is how can we heal ourselves I would like to to bring here jul a couple of aspects around pain because from a spiritual Dimension we are told that the memory that our spiritual self our spirit preserves that is painful right there it's a there's a painful component but uh as a spirit I'm talking about a spirit not an incarnated Spirit but a spirit it does not have a physical body it does not have a physical outcome and I'm talking about the fact that let's say um upon my dis Incarnation my death my physical death my soul does not have a burn or it it's not frozen there's not they have a wound right so that's one component but from a material perspective In Our Lifetime in our corporeal existence our body is actually this very specific instrument of pain and so we need to to do the correlation that the pain that we endure endure in today for example and we all have some pain points right the pain that we endure sometimes is completely unrelated to either our lifestyle or even our genetic predisposition so I say this because

e in today for example and we all have some pain points right the pain that we endure sometimes is completely unrelated to either our lifestyle or even our genetic predisposition so I say this because understanding these aspects of pain is important to potentially understand that there is a type of pain that will help us Elevate us right which which pain is that the pain that we we go through to help us overcome a challenging s uh situation a pain that will lead us to Redemption but with that I'm going to Pivot back to you Julio and I want to say thank you for being here with me today and to talk about something that uh it's pretty much Universal right but if you're here with us today with me and Julia and this is the first time that you're watching this program please note that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna deangeles and we're here to to create a space that is safe so that we can perhaps confront compare correlate and even expand our concepts of spirituality from a psychological lens and bringing perhaps insights or tips or or anything that is here for us to uh reach a better life before I start I want to say thank you for those organizations that are sponsoring this program TV man C the United States Spirits Federation the international spiritual Council and in Brazil iy Brazil and make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already done so um if you have any questions if you have any comments feedback critique please write in the chat window and we will address them at a later time I want to say Julio you are a researcher you are a scientist and uh I'm sure you can recognize the progress that uh astounding progress if you think in terms of the past three years uh when we had to deal with the covid as a pandemic right a true Global pandemic but uh when we look at how much progress the scientific Community has done and we're doing this to do what right to to bring to create to innovate and find resources to address on one

Global pandemic but uh when we look at how much progress the scientific Community has done and we're doing this to do what right to to bring to create to innovate and find resources to address on one hand um maybe pathologies help us have a better lifestyle prevent uh other pathology right and uh I I I I'm always astounded Julia because we go through all of this and we address old diseases right there's a there's a time for researching for proving for creating and and uh offering to the public at large so we we bring that and we're now healing old diseases but then there are some new diseases that come and challenges the scientific Community again so why is that Julia maybe you can talk a little bit about it before we can start talking about pain proper okay oh hello everyone and Maria thank you for your invitation um well there's quite a lot there that question um let us try to break this a little into little things into little problems the first thing is that as we age and uh as we live longer we show other malfunctions or dysfunctions of the biology that we do not know about because we never live that long it's very important when we address diseases that we understand that our knowledge is statistical correct it doesn't count for the population that I should say oh but my grandfather my grandmother or my father it's important to me of course I love them if one of them is not feeling well or one of the of them passes away I feel it but it's not important for the population when we talk about diseases we need to have statistical evaluation we need to know a representative number of people that will actually well as I said represent that population or the whole population so as we live longer and longer we are getting to newer and newer diseases or newer and newer medical conditions not necessarily a disease simply because before we hadn't lived that long this is why our knowledge is good but it's always improving and new things are always showing up that's right very simple but it is the the the

disease simply because before we hadn't lived that long this is why our knowledge is good but it's always improving and new things are always showing up that's right very simple but it is the the the essence of it so could we correlate perhaps because I want you to Pivot this conversation perhaps Julia to the origins of pain right pain and suffering of course as a correlated concept here but can we can we talk about okay we we address and new diseases and we're we're aging and we're becoming really good about uh aging youthfully this is a paradox right but more more it's yeah let's say we are aging gracefully I love it I love it so we're we're more and more aging gracefully we live in a in the world that uh from a technology perspective it's amazing how much it's at our fingertips maybe medication or I don't know therapies or or even um procedures to help us cope with this mechanism this body right but as I mentioned before this body is an instrument of pain because through pain we learn let's just talk about uh this issue of of pain and uh this is not everyone out there this is not an apology for uh going through pain or or or uh any any of those instruments that we can think of in the medieval AE days right that age where you you self-inflicted pain to purify your body but we we are here to talk about pain and pain is somehow inherent part of our lives right uh uh especially this corporeal existence can we talk perhaps uh Julio um in this world right uh we are from a spiritual perspective we are called upon uh being here in a tone uh expiate whatever repair those are uh different words for the process of redemption but to address our pest mistakes or the hurts right right the hurt that I cause to myself that I cause to others the hurt that someone else caused to me and uh can you talk a little bit about how this pain itself and is an opportunity for us to to to Really reflect upon how we go about um addressing and uh uh repairing if you will any damages that we

and uh can you talk a little bit about how this pain itself and is an opportunity for us to to to Really reflect upon how we go about um addressing and uh uh repairing if you will any damages that we cause okay uh so here's what I was thinking before that there's quite a lot in one question have take down a little bit Yeah because otherwise it's it's hard for especially for those who are seeing this for the first time or hearing about this yes so let us let us make a few points here first of all we are aging more gracefully these days not because of medical uh medical uh technology it certainly helps but being capable of fixing something doesn't mean that the machine will continue to operate as well as it was or had been so we are actually aging more gracefully because we are paying more attention to what we eat we are cultivating our vegetables our fruits even even Meats we are also we have better ways of storing them transporting them all of this infrastructure brings us better a better nutrition better way ways of living terms of housing all of these things together is what is promoting longer lifetimes and of course when we have a problem here or there a condition here or there medical knowledge as well but it's not MediCal knowledge it's not pharmaceutical knowledge either it's the whole this whole set of things but all of this is physical it's taking care of this physical yes when Now we move away from this and we speak of pain in a more spiritualizing way we have to understand what pain is first of all we must eliminate from our vocabulary all of these things of um uh you know um attonement experation mistakes sins they are very very negative are they errors in our past are they are they misconducts they are we can give them many names what I want to convey here is not to bend the words but whenever we say them perhaps we should have in our heads a translator that would tell us that these are mistakes of our past but that we are here because we have been given an an

to bend the words but whenever we say them perhaps we should have in our heads a translator that would tell us that these are mistakes of our past but that we are here because we have been given an an opportunity to correct for them to not not to atone anymore not toate because all of these things experation atonement why is this important when I say I have to expiate psychologically what I'm seeing is that there is an external Force outside of me forcing me to accommodate to a situation interesting yeah which is different than when I say oh I am aware now that I was horrible to that person or that I cut in front of the line or that I stole something from the office or whatever it is I have become aware and now I feel embarrassed for my own actions now we are not talking about changing human Justice because of that but it's important for us to understand this concept because divine Justice is not based on being caught red-handed it's not based on evidence Divine Justice is based on intention so we actually commit many more mistakes that human Justice is not even aware of can I just stop here because I think the word that you're saying is quite interesting awareness right awareness and I think that's a key perhaps uh element for for what we're discussing here right uh we we we make mistakes but the key point is are we aware of the mistakes that we're making what are your thoughts yes so yeah this awareness is what is key and because we have this awareness now I don't need an external Force you know like here for instance in on Earth in in any society in human society we have human Justice telling us you have to be penalized for this or for that I don't have to do that now I have it in me so this is the most important thing for us to understand I believe and we have to change towards this pain is a it's a mechanism it's a self mechanism of progress mhm in the sense that it starts with my awareness of something I might have done or might have said or even might have

change towards this pain is a it's a mechanism it's a self mechanism of progress mhm in the sense that it starts with my awareness of something I might have done or might have said or even might have thought because we even correct our own thoughts right yes and uh like I said in spiritualizing way a Divine Justice the Creator's that Justice whatever name we want to give to that that which is beyond us at the it's based on intention and not on uh evidence there's another huge difference between Divine justice and human Justice human Justice is f focuses on punishment penalization penalties fees you name it in Divine Justice you won't pass that grade until you get good grades so basically oh you made a mistake why do you think so you think you made a mistake here's another opportunity go there and correct it another one and another one and we are going to go through this cycle as many times as it is needed now it's quite an interesting way right to think about yes it's very different yeah it's it's not a it's not rewarding something we did wrong so it's not a betting a crime um it's not saying oh no let no oh so oh poor you and this and that no it's not that it's not uh complacency it's just saying okay you think you made a mistake here's an an opportunity show me that you you have really redeemed yourself for yourself to yourself you don't have to prove it to me you know the Creator you don't have to prove to others you have to prove to yourself so this is an inner Journey right Julie if you if you think about it it's a almost what I'm thinking here is a marathon so it's not a a Sprint it's a marathon that you're running right it's long it's hard it's even painful but the marathon that you're running is against yourself you can take as long as you want because this the the the acceleration the velocity the achievement is all you to yourself so there is no need for us to be thinking about all this external factors that are leading us to to be well or not it is all on

the the acceleration the velocity the achievement is all you to yourself so there is no need for us to be thinking about all this external factors that are leading us to to be well or not it is all on us yes um of course I'm not advocating in favor of um getting what divine Justice does and put it in our human Justice because right now it wouldn't work uh we need some form of let's say penalization here I don't think we should need to go to excesses to extremes but we still we still need some form of um it's like something prodding Us in the right direction yeah I Julio I I I'm just gonna be interrupting for fun this is for fun you said you don't watch TV you don't watch TV right no I don't but what I do and this is something with streaming uh Services I become quite interested in looking at detective stories right so detect Cals on uh different parts of the world and do you know Julia that I always play here at home and and we joke around uh Whenever there is a depiction of a prison system I'm like oh I I I think I would be a criminal in that uh if you talk about uh perhaps Iceland Sweden or England or France is a very different way to to to penalize to to to to to to address uh crimes and I I always make fun of it because we even within our own humanity and we're talking about we're we're talking about the 21st century the way this um human right this Material Justice is done even that has many many variations just a thought just a just a a a comedy break here for us sure sure no but why did I I bring up this difference between Divine Justice and um you know and human Justice it's important for the discussion of pain and for a very simple reason because most of what we endure in life most not all this is important um those who are next to us surrounding us or even if if only temporarily uh they have some form of uh um developed free will that allows them to exercise their thoughts their choices and they can hurt us so they do have an opportunity to do so if they choose to

temporarily uh they have some form of uh um developed free will that allows them to exercise their thoughts their choices and they can hurt us so they do have an opportunity to do so if they choose to do so okay but most of what of those things that are more significant in our lives perhaps more consistent they are actually a form that we found we found nobody found it for us there's no imposition that we found to deal with situations of our past um we call this aism you can imagine this as being a spiritual inheritance but it's an inheritance not from somebody else we're not we don't inherit from our parents we inherit this from ourselves from our past lives are you talking perhaps about a personal unconscious uh J from Yun vocabulary right what we bring within ourselves uh it's uh it's the AR it's the it's built into the formation of the archetypes for instance okay okay it is the uh it's what is the unconscious or subconscious today so if someone here has done regressive therapy yeah uh past lives therapies like regressions uh this is where the therapist is T into uh basically it's something that is in US is part of our construction the construction of our psyche yeah and um it may not manifest itself directly because it's either UN in the unconscious or the subconscious but every now and again it surfaces to the conscious mind and we then manifest it directly so these diseases that we have you might say right now oh but but these things this a m this is material if I have a material a viral infection yes well let's get there now first of all pain doesn't have to be physical pain is first at the psychological level and then from that psychological level it may or may not Express itself M physically it's a somatization that we say you know the technical term we somatize okay now how is it possible for pain to be um somewhat psychological give you a simple example if someone snags a cuticle for instance like you're in the office a colleag just bump something the corner of between the nail

ssible for pain to be um somewhat psychological give you a simple example if someone snags a cuticle for instance like you're in the office a colleag just bump something the corner of between the nail and and the and and the cuticle and we all know how painful that is right and sometimes you see the person just a little bit of blood there and the we see it the first thing we go is like oh my God right why do we go like why do we have this reaction if we don't have the pain the physical pain because we can associate and relate to it so there is a psychology behind it there is a memory because perhaps we have gone through that in life at least once so we can invoke that memory and we understand what the person is going through not in every possible detail but we do and and this is an interesting point because uh it's an empathetic response to the other person's pain right yes yeah we have all this an empathy this or the relation of but in the end why is it that we have this empathy why is it that we it's because we have that in our minds it that it's somewhere there there in our psyche we understand that process and even when it's let's say a disease now let's move to a disease not this is like just a medical condition we got a uh uh snug cuticle right or you have a cut or something like that but let's go to a disease even when we see someone suffering in the hospital with this or that or someone breaks an arm that's a medical condition not a disease um even if we have never broken a bone even if we have never had that particular disease we end up having associations with things that we felt that we experienced that gives us an idea it's not the exact same thing but an idea of what that individual must be going through so all of this is in us it's built in us so why is it that we somatize sometimes these experiences from our past because we are in a way psychological beings right and it is so ingrained in us that the Greeks used to call the fluids in our bodies the

it that we somatize sometimes these experiences from our past because we are in a way psychological beings right and it is so ingrained in us that the Greeks used to call the fluids in our bodies the humors that's right humor haha and comical uh but there was for instance that the liver was always associated with with hatred and we would say things like uh the person has an imbalance in the liver this is how the First physicians would work right um the the blood was related to fevers you had to this is why we had the blood leting during the Middle Ages and for thousands of years that's how we behaved we Associated psychological reactions to physical organs but there is an interation right Julio in in fact and I know we're Beyond uh using uh things to take away the blood because we have fever or understanding uh anger and and the liver itself for example but uh but there is an intertwining of our like you said before you alluded to the psychosomatic response to uh somatization of a disease based on an emotional feeling or an in mental imbalance perhaps yes so why why am I going down this Avenue exactly because medicine can treat the physical body you go there have a broken arm they fix it you you have a bad heart they put a valve in it they they have a transplant they do something and they're extraordinarily good and we have developed medicine to to very uh high levels but here's the thing the next challenge we humans have is to deal with the mind yes right now for instance our lives are very stressful we are not dying of a heart attack the heart attack is the last part the heart attack is um the the the push over the cliff but what is it that brings us to the cliff in the first place the stressful life lives we live so we are not paying attention to that so with all that we have done we all that we know today in terms of nutrition exercising and medical we are still having a huge number of individuals dying of cardiovascular related diseases so let's look at our lives and

ave done we all that we know today in terms of nutrition exercising and medical we are still having a huge number of individuals dying of cardiovascular related diseases so let's look at our lives and life today is much more stressful than it used to be 50 or 100 years ago even though we have more at our disposal it's more stressful perhaps even M much more stressful than the things we can accumulate yeah or the with the ease with which we can accumulate things so this is where the spiritualization comes in yeah we bring these Tendencies nobody brings a disease from the grave or from a past life you know from a past grave or from a past life what we bring is an inclination yeah the tendency right the the the genetic tendency perhaps yeah perhaps it's our genetic or even when it's not we find a way because there are genetic factors that we get from M and Dad okay not blaming them but they are the ones that give us the genetic material period it ends there yeah we don't go for we don't go the next step to blame them no but then we forget that we have epigenetic factors epigenetic factors is everything that's outside of our Genome of our genetics and we have a lifetime of epigenetic factors but we have only one set of genetic factors that we get from birth yeah so the epigenetic factors today are being looked more uh in terms of um their role in our lives but back to the pain we we don't bring the pain we we bring tendency so for instance if I now develop a heart disease or cardiovascular disease or high blood pressure for instance perhaps I should look at see myself isn't it lack lack of humility I want everyone to be to behave the way I want I demand of people to behav in this or that way or I am not patient at all so if I am the supermarket line there's going to be a a big storm snow rain and now there's a huge line because everyone decided to stock some some um some uh food do I have to blow a gasket because of that so if I blow a gasket and then I have a a a cardiovascular episode oh is

now there's a huge line because everyone decided to stock some some um some uh food do I have to blow a gasket because of that so if I blow a gasket and then I have a a a cardiovascular episode oh is it my past well it is my past in the sense that I never learned or never developed humility patience the sense of coordination with my surroundings interaction with my surroundings so it is possible to somatize things but in the process of somatization of transforming something that is psychological into physical it is possible for us to go many different ways so this removes that eye for an eye thing one eye for one eye so if I died with a bullet in the the last time I'm not gonna have to kill someone today or or have that individual be killed that shot me killed by it doesn't doesn't work like this yeah so so yeah if you if I may Julia I think it's important right because in many reincarnationist philosophies we we have inherent in the idea of Life After Life or Death after death right because it's one life one Spirit um of uh perhaps a karmic um a karmic debt if you will with whatever I've done I have to suffer it so I love what you said here the eye for an eye is something that is quite obsolete because as we know in spiritism is is very strong in in its discussion of uh uh while there is a law of action and reaction right uh uh you you are responsible for your actions um we can also think in terms of perhaps um the fact that uh it does not have to be uh like the third law of Newton uh the the same in in the the the the what is it uh uh the reaction is the opposing to the initial uh action uh we don't need to do this we we can um search for equilibrium without having to suffer through uh the same issues I don't know if I make I if I I'm trying to see if I'm making sense of your words and you well I'll put it this way uhhuh um brothers and sisters out there I tell you this that will be useful to you whether you are full atheist all the way to someone that's completely spiritualized spiritualist

I'll put it this way uhhuh um brothers and sisters out there I tell you this that will be useful to you whether you are full atheist all the way to someone that's completely spiritualized spiritualist not spiritualized spiritualist and anything in between be true to yourself be consistent with yourself you cannot believe that there is something out there in spiritism we call it God or Creator but in other religions that it it answers for different Nam to different names so if you cannot say that that which is out there that is all loving because all the time honored religions their their repres their maximum representation is always all powerful and loving they are we may just likee one or another it doesn't matter what our prejudices are if we are to study them we'll see that the maximal representation is always all powerful all loving all intelligence unit or justice so you cannot say that that individual let's call it entity it's entity yeah entity that entity can be all powerful or intelligence or Justice all love when you say oh that in that entity is forcing me to undergo the crime I committed why is that because then indirectly that entity is forcing somebody else now to shoot you if you shot someone in a past life yeah where where's the Justice in that my my my my representation my that entity in telling me for oh in this reincarnation Julio you have to go and shoot someone because that someone you're going to shoot has been shot in the past life what have I done yeah and of course it's a it would lead to a a cyclical right uh system that never breaks uh in theory and a very childish type or immature way of dealing with us the creature uh from our creator so very very good point I really appreciate you you bringing that and just to to close to something we said at the very beginning um we particular we westerners we get this very wrong from Hinduism among other other religions karma is not that karma is a stage in our lives when we become aware of what we did did that was

ginning um we particular we westerners we get this very wrong from Hinduism among other other religions karma is not that karma is a stage in our lives when we become aware of what we did did that was completely destructive for ourselves and sometimes to others and we we are so eager not it's not about embarrassment about being C uh uh being uh being guilt feeling guilty or feeling uh culpable no we are so eager to do something to correct for it that we accept let's say lesser positions in life lesser um um well positions or conditions in life it is a way that it's a self-imposed penalization it's a self-imposed fee or penalty whatever it is nobody else is nobody else does that for us we do interesting this is the concept of Karma it is an awareness so the individual is growing just because it has become he or she has become aware of that and and this brings us back to pain that individual May manifest that somatize that into a condition because it's the only way that that individual that is spiritualizing spiritualized being finds to redeem in himself or herself to himself for himself self or to herself or and for herself yeah it's a path that individual takes yeah so so pain good or bad pain is always good always good pain is always good look I'm not talking about the frivolous pain like you step on a nail or you you step on a or or you feeling the pain feeling the pain are you stepping a sharded glass I mean we're not talking we can't say that everything that happens to us I mean The Shard of glass was there because someone was careless broke something and did not sweep it uh properly that's a different story that that's that's what I go frivolous pain uh the pain itself is not frivolous It's the episode it's a frivolous pain episode that's what I mean correct when we think about the diseases when we think about the um the uh the difficulties we have in life difficulties of adjustment these are all psychological manifestations of our past mistakes it is a step of awareness that happen

ases when we think about the um the uh the difficulties we have in life difficulties of adjustment these are all psychological manifestations of our past mistakes it is a step of awareness that happen sometime in the past and that now we are trying to use for our own benefit because it's for our own benefit pain itself as pain is not good but pain has serves a purpose when we think of the purpose it's always beneficial always beneficial yeah I think it's important right I think it's important for us to to think of that uh the The Beneficial qualities of pain as a perhaps a uh trigger I'm not sure if I'm using the words correct so please uh correct me but uh pain as a trigger for us to self-correct in in our own needs so it's a inner Compass if you think in terms of a a navigational tool that you you use as a compass to redirect to whatever Direction you you choose to go then pain becomes that U that uh tool to self-direct in terms of our own state right as a as a child uh I may make choices that are very childish but appropriate to my age as I grow and I continue to do the same um mistakes the same issues then I'm not growing and I may suffer some pain um that uh that point that I become aware of oh I'm missing the opportunity I'm missing this etc etc so I think it's very interesting to think of pain in in those uh those persp perspectives and uh Julia one thing that I was I know we're we're about to to to close on our time uh we have a few minutes left but I was just wondering if you could talk perhaps about the difference between pain and suffering okay um pain is our perception because it can be this is going to sound strange it can be not there uhuh okay like s s it can be not there yeah in the sense that I think it is therefore for me it is but if you have a doctor or any medical practitioner or therapist they they say no it's not it's not it's in your head then right so it can be not there so but the suffering is the me mechanism suffering is the process pain that and suffering are two

er or therapist they they say no it's not it's not it's in your head then right so it can be not there so but the suffering is the me mechanism suffering is the process pain that and suffering are two different things they are always they are together but we can separate one from the other this comes this uh brings us back to Jan GI Angeles and when we we study what she's saying is that stop asking yourself why me you chose this we chose our moments we chose not only the p but also somehow as we live our lives we also choose our suffering yeah this is the most important thing the pain is perhaps one decision the suffering is a collection it's multiple decisions that we make throughout life and uh you chose so ask yourselves like we should ask ourselves how am I going through this what is it going to bring to me because in this way we have a much more Progressive respectful constructive view of any difficult moment definitely much better than complaining the whole time correct yeah this that and the other blaspheming even so that's number one so you chose it now you can choose how to suffer this is where Joanna Gian this helps us so much in choosing how to suffer because in choosing how to suffer we can be kind of guided but we cannot be guided in choosing um in in in choosing the pain itself because the pain the the origin of it is kind of a v Vortex a Vortex we throw ourselves in so once we have made that decision what they can help us with with you know the assisting entities whether we call them Spirits Angels it doesn't matter the assisting entities that are more uh more intelligent than we are they have a higher moral uh ground than we have they they can assist guide us through the choices we can make through the process of suffering what is that okay it one of them is resignation forbearance yeah yeah some sometimes you look too in the Hospital in a hospital Ward you have two patients usually if they're in the same room they have roughly the same conditions one is all

ignation forbearance yeah yeah some sometimes you look too in the Hospital in a hospital Ward you have two patients usually if they're in the same room they have roughly the same conditions one is all smiles he or she may be going through extraordinary amounts of physical pain but there is always a smile you you the doctor comes to them or a nurse comes to them and say are you in pain only when I when I smile but they have a smile that this this big right so they are not denying what they're going through this is not denial but they choose not to let that control them and then on the next one you have the individuals who are moaning groaning complaining blaspheming it now it the one that is old Smiles may actually pass away and the other one may actually survive and even be let's say cured for for medical standards sure but in the end for a full life the spiritualizing life yeah the one that passed away truly got rid of what was bothering him or her because it supported it was resilient it uh uh it it it bore all that that was physical that was brought by that situation that disease situation whereas the other one did not that other one if his problem or her problem was lack of humility aggression that is with still that individual and next time around be the same that's a very good point I I love this discussion I think it's it's really a number of uh really Paradigm shifts and how we think about ourselves and how we think about our pain right painful moments um our experience of the the the situation the event the condition and it is as varied almost as varied as the number of people that are there right Julia we talk you start talking about population health and and and how scientific research is done on a statistical view of the problem not the personal view but I I keep thinking that um uh at the end of the day we each one of us some suffer and go through those painful moments differently depending on our where we are uh in our own spiritual evolve evolvement right how in our path

um uh at the end of the day we each one of us some suffer and go through those painful moments differently depending on our where we are uh in our own spiritual evolve evolvement right how in our path to our own Evolution but with that Julie we are at time do you want to just a few last words before we close today and I just want to say thank you thank you so much for being here Julio ination I really enjoyed it um very quickly remember when I mentioned about the frivolous pain episode for that we have Pharmaceuticals right you can take an antibiotic if you cut your your you can take a tetan shot if it was there a nail okay you can even take something that will kind of make your your the area numb so you don't feel as much fine but all the other pains in our lives this is why we speak ofan Gian this is why she speaks to us these pains are inherent they are us and we are the pain it's you don't separate we have this problem saying I have pain we don't have pain it's a painful moment for us that's it we can't separate ourselves from the pain so these there are no Pharmaceuticals for them this type of pain there are no Pharmaceuticals there's no medical procedure for it what happens is that we have to grow out of it whatever caused it in the first place this is where I said the spiritualizing entities they they can assist us in how to suffer this is that this is how we move away from the origins of that particular event that's very good of us do is become addicted to this that or the other whether is it is alcoholic beverages whether it's the it doesn't matter or or or painkillers or they they don't move us away from the origin of that pain like I said before next time around we're back here we'll bring whatever origin for that pain back with us because it is us we are that origin as well ah beautiful beautifully said I want to say to everyone here today thank you for being with us thank you Julio I love to have you back when you have a chance and see everyone next time bye-bye

as well ah beautiful beautifully said I want to say to everyone here today thank you for being with us thank you Julio I love to have you back when you have a chance and see everyone next time bye-bye everyone