Ep 61 - Escape Mechanisms of the Ego

hello everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Marcia Tran and with me is Julio padovan hi Julio how you doing hello Maria how are you doing good awesome awesome to have you with me today but for those of you who have maybe not met Julie please note that he's a researcher at the rockfeller University he's an ENT associate professor at the Department of Chemistry at York College New York City he holds several academic degrees and he is also a lecture presenter in several areas physical science and spiritism Julio when we talk about spiritism here he was first introduced to Spirits when he was only 15 years old and he's very interested in studying explaining understanding sharing information around the the area of logic right so that we can better understand spirit's Concepts and how they're built so I just want to say thank you Julio so much for being here and for leading this conversation which is center around the Escape mechanism of the ego um if you think about it right Um this can be called escapism Escape mechanism and you you when you look about this it can get you to a point that you may not really understand so I was hoping that you today jul can tell us a little bit more about it if this is the first time that you're here with us watching this podcast like program please note those um psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joan d'angeles and we're here to offer a safe space so that we can perhaps confront compare correlate or expand some spirituality Concepts from this psychological lens we hope that we are able to clarify and maybe bring some insights that will help all of us lead a better life before we start a conversation Julie I'd like to recognize the organizations that are sponsoring this program TV m c the United States spiritual Federation the international spiritual Council and Amy Brazil and for all of you who are here with us today if you have not done so please subscribe and if

s program TV m c the United States spiritual Federation the international spiritual Council and Amy Brazil and for all of you who are here with us today if you have not done so please subscribe and if you want to check out other channels that will give you addition information please do so at spiritist us and if you have any questions any feedback critique clarifying information please do write in the chat window we'd love to hear from you so Julio now it's us here I hear so many people speak of the egole as a bad thing is it good or bad okay well thank you Maria for having me here hello everyone Let's uh let's address this question because I think it's very important uh first of all we need to understand that the words ego super ego uh for instance they and they they came from the U the model that Freud created to understand the um to analyze the the human personality so it's really personality and unfortunately uh when Freud did this he did it in in German and then when he got translated the stres who who were a couple in England who translated his entire work it was a wonderful amount of work but they ended up latinized a lot of things because it was very common at the time in the 19th century to latinize English and the words that Freud used was basically the eye okay the over the eye just to give you an idea so and the IT the so when it got translated into English we got it for the it we got uh ego for the I and we got super ego for the over the eye you know and what happened is the ego has other meanings in our daily lives so the first thing that we need to understand is that the ego is not something bad or good it is a part of Freud's model and as such it's integral to our personality I love it so it's it's a framework to understand how this here functions right this this person Marcia Julie all of you how we function that's awesome do you have any additional information on on that structure sure um let us try to understand it very quickly with a model that is very common it's a classic Model

of you how we function that's awesome do you have any additional information on on that structure sure um let us try to understand it very quickly with a model that is very common it's a classic Model try to to to explain you know the know id ego and super ego imagine that you have a a colleague you you have a roommate you live with someone and that roommate one day bakes a cake and you arrive at home and you see the cake but your roommate is not around the ID is the most instinctive in US it goes and tells you if I may personalize the parts of our of our Persona right like double almost double jeopardy there the it tells me go there and pig out on the cake yes it doesn't ask whose cake it is it doesn't ask if there's a social convention about asking permission no it just says go go there and pig out eat the whole thing you want it you have it you should have it this is the ID the most it's instinctive in us we all have we will always have it even the high order Spirits okay or spirits of great Evolution already they have the ID in them the instinct them after that we have the ego the ego is the one that says that is related to ourselves it's word with ourselves so it goes like this okay you want to have it fine it says to the it but here's a thing if you eat the whole thing how many hours of gym how many hours of gym do you have to do later on I love I love this example by the way how much how many pounds are you going to put on all of these little things but notice that it's still related to myself and myself only so this is why the stes decided to give it ego as opposed to you know which was the uh what was the original uh expression from from Freud which meant the eye right The Eye Inside of us not the eye of ourselves so the the ego says okay you want to do it go for it but but think about you might get sick for instance or you might have to go to the gym like I said and so on it is only afterwards that you have the super ego and the super ego is the one that says all right

think about you might get sick for instance or you might have to go to the gym like I said and so on it is only afterwards that you have the super ego and the super ego is the one that says all right you want to have it I won't I won't argue with that you you are thinking about your your your pounds your this or that fine but here's the thing is the cake yours to begin with oh so the the E the super ego is the part that relates us to the surroundings the surroundings can be the environment okay or it can also be just the other people around us so surroundings includes everything nature and all the other humans or other species around us so you see it as a gradation you start with something that's purely instinctive very reactive then you have something that thinks a little bit uh uh evaluates a little bit but the evaluation is always to oneself back to the same individual and then you have the other part that evaluates within the society a context of that is uh larger so just for us to understand so from this there is no good or bad it's just a part of the model yeah love it love it and uh so I I hope you who's here who are here right now with us right that can understand that the three gr gradation of those that framework that was uh created by Freud right so late 1800s and uh so now we understand there is no good or bad so that's good for all for us to get started yes this is very important because in in day in our daily lives whenever we use the word ego yeah we it's deprecating it's berating it is insulting we say things like oh such and such a person has this big ego uh it's not what we are dealing with here this is very important okay very good but we're we're talking about the mechanism of Escape of the ego right can you tell us what they are Julio and uh uh so that we can hear more from you okay so um scape mechanisms or mechanisms of scape uh so we address more those about the ego because those are the ones we um those are the the the the true escape mechanisms by definition and a Escape

kay so um scape mechanisms or mechanisms of scape uh so we address more those about the ego because those are the ones we um those are the the the the true escape mechanisms by definition and a Escape mechanism is in layment layman's term lay lay person's terms is nothing more than a lame excuse okay the psychologist over there or the therapist if please forgive me the psych the psychiatrist please forgive me I know I am simplifying but I'm not oversimplifying it is an elegant and an elegant resolution of of the individual of the personality that uses a lame excuse either to justify something to understand something there are many ways and this is what we can discuss later for instance sure which are the different types but right now Escape mechanism is nothing more than something that the individual uses to remain in a position of comfort because in in life okay wherever we are in life we interact with the surroundings yeah this interaction brings us a new experiences we are comfortable with experiences that are very old to us that we have repeated many many times we are perhaps so so in terms of being comfortable with things that are slightly different but still have something um relatable to the ones the experiences we already have experienced in life right to the uh things we have already done things we have already accomplished and then everything that is completely new because we don't have much to withdraw from in terms of uh relate to that experience it sces us it's a natural scare it's but the thing is whether we are going to be paralyzed by that fear or we're just going to have the butterflies in our stomach correct we all have butterflies in our stomach whether we admit to them or not we do but sometimes individuals actually become paralyzed they don't want to take that when they offer some resistance to understand that reality to incorporate the new experiences that are being offered to them actually to incorporate the opportunities of experience I should say then that in

hey offer some resistance to understand that reality to incorporate the new experiences that are being offered to them actually to incorporate the opportunities of experience I should say then that in order for them to continue on because they're they're rebelling the the their personalities each one of us does it we all do it but we do it in different ways so their personalities end up creating or our personality I should say our personalities create scapis MS m excuses for not embracing the opportunity of a new experience and and Julia this is mostly done unconsciously right no it's done consciously okay we are fly aware of it oh yes we have because if it were unconscious unconsciously because Freud also divided the personality into three layers which is there is a classic um example it's like an iceberg and the tip of the iceberg that is above the water is the conscience notice that is not the conscious mind is the conscious the conscious then the thing that is just below the water level so the asberg is floating what is just below the water level is the semiconscious and the the thing that is really deep because most of the iceberg is is you know below the water level yeah that is the unconscious the unconscious the semiconscious and uh and the conscious so the ego the ego so the ID the most instinctive the Primitive in US primordial is all all the way down there in the deep under under the water line right the water level but way all the way down the ego begins close to the water level but still below it and goes all the way to the top and the super ego takes the other side so it's like you have the the iceberg you cut it in halves okay so the one side is the super ego that can go all the way deep to the conscious so all the way from the unconscious to the conscious and on this side you divide again in two two parts top and bottom and the top part is the uh ego and the bottom part all the way into deep Waters is the ID or the in instinct in us so so we're talking about the ego who who the

e again in two two parts top and bottom and the top part is the uh ego and the bottom part all the way into deep Waters is the ID or the in instinct in us so so we're talking about the ego who who the ego that is the conscious part if you look into the metaphor of the iceberg above and you said a little bit below the waterline but it's right there in the conscience yeah so the ego is partly conscious and partly semiconscious okay okay so um when we speak for instance uh of archetypes when we speak for inst of inheriting things from our past lives we don't talk so much about the ego those are related to the ID or the super ego but not the ego itself the ego is more interactive it is our relation very close to our surroundings like a momentaneous interaction yeah the way yeah the way I see it jul sorry to interrupt you but the way see it is the ego this is Marcia right so I may be wrong here correct me if that's the case but the way I see it is the ego is there as a as you said as a mechanism to exactly understand the the world that we revolve that revolves us right so it's that uh uh the culture or the demands or anything that uh by which I am inserted so for example me being a woman from a different part of the live in a different part of the us than you and and coming from a different part of the world with a different experience I have a different my ego has a different uh response to to to this circumstance than probably yours so it's very much a personal Journey if you will but it's still uh relating to to that external demands the demands of the world am I on the right track uh yes yes it it is the it is the the tool or it is the part of our personality that interacts with the world initially uh because first we interacted for ourselves then we interact for the community yes there is a there is a gradation there first we interact for ourselves on our behalf that's the ego yes and then for that the E takes um it it uses everything from past lives for instance and even experiences of this

e is a gradation there first we interact for ourselves on our behalf that's the ego yes and then for that the E takes um it it uses everything from past lives for instance and even experiences of this lifetime so that's when you're saying oh if I'm this if I come from that place if I'm that so these are the experiences that you have already accumulated and some in this life and some from past lives so yes it uses those things as tools to inter interact with the now with what is happening now so it is number one very interactive this is why it was so important to the first question that you you you asked if it is important or not if it's good or bad because we can't just go and say oh let's uproot the super ego let's get rid of the ID getting of the ID or the ego is like taking the roots of a tree the tree yeah it is a part of the tree it doesn't matter if it's below the ground it doesn't matter if it's dirty it's not as beautiful as the flowers or the fruit but it's a part of it an integral part of it right an integral part exactly yes very well put so this this is the ego represent it it's basically the representation of of ourselves at this moment under the circumstances that are surrounding us yeah and and as such it is ourselves there's no other way to put it yes so so let's talk about some mechanism of Escape sure um so we basically uh discuss about five mechanisms okay so uh there is compensation I'm gonna site them first and thank you yeah briefly there is compensation there is Shifting and and then there is uh projection and the opposite of projection injection not introspection I I always like to uh I know you did not ask but I I like to say it's not introspection okay introspection good it's that part that St Francis of told us to do every night when we come home we are in bed we think about our day that's introspection that's not that's very healthy by the way yes so we have projection injection and the last one is rationalization or slash justification

home we are in bed we think about our day that's introspection that's not that's very healthy by the way yes so we have projection injection and the last one is rationalization or slash justification it's you can use either one the last one is the king of all of I was I was gonna say that this is the one that I use over and over again right we justify what our actions our thoughts our inaction as well but go ahead Julia no no it's uh it's quite amazing what the the last one is is responsible for most of our actions basically if you're looking from a psychoanalytical standpoint so in compensation we see this a lot for instance when someone has a particular aversion to either a person or a thing okay um it can be for instance an aversion to Authority or if it can be for it doesn't actually have to be an aversion I I I should make this a a good point let's say the person cannot execute certain things or cannot understand certain things so what the person does is try to compensate in other areas okay that's why compensation so can you give us an example jul the descriptions are very dry I understand so for instance one thing that we see is the over zealotry I see it's like a um someone for in or taboos when people create taboos so someone for instance has some that has had a very uh repressive sexual upbringing and this is this is one of the best examples so now everything that they see is dirty to use the colloquial term is dirty is um degrading they they they they if if they see a if they see two young a couple a young couple kissing they think it's already uh they they exaggerate and they go to other levels they they they create barriers for that because they feel themselves inadequate to deal with a situation of tenderness not necessarily sexual activity even tenderness like a kid or for instance the holding of hands and these are the individuals that create absurd rules they are Draconian that's the word in their behavior could we say could we say in a in a different just to check my

instance the holding of hands and these are the individuals that create absurd rules they are Draconian that's the word in their behavior could we say could we say in a in a different just to check my understanding Julia could it be compensation when for example this is the part of the Year where uh when we're working uh in in my case I'm working I had to uh go through evaluation those annual evaluations right of all the employees but then I'm going to be evaluated and and perhaps if and this is fictitious if I am concerned afraid of of uh having not performed then I get to this Draconian very harsh evaluation of the team that report to me the reports to me because I'm afraid of my own consciously or not maybe uh yes yes if if you lash out yes or you introduce difficulties obstacles hurdles in because you are afraid of something for yourself or you are in you feel inadequate yeah that's it that is your compensation you you're compensating and and the compensation it's not just that because we'll see that this can also be seen all as well as a projection but in the compensation what you do is you aggressively uphold those obstacles that is the key I see so for instance if you are afraid of um if you are afraid of of being evaluated you uh you as the let's say the uh person of authority that can create because you know evaluations cannot be willy-nilly they have to have a certain protocol so then you create a protocol that is not really with the intention of being constructive or or up uh upholding the individual but to put the person down any person in compensation you don't have a Target except the the part that you feel inadequate with respect that thing you feel inadequate for so uh you don't say no I want to hurt this individual in particular no you so for say you would sit down and You' create a protocol that is just it's almost Imp in the end you wouldn't be able to pass your own protocol I see I see individuals for instance like in the example that I gave about uh uh tenderness about sexual

protocol that is just it's almost Imp in the end you wouldn't be able to pass your own protocol I see I see individuals for instance like in the example that I gave about uh uh tenderness about sexual activity you name it they create a world that you cannot live in in which you cannot live even they cannot fulfill their own rules and regulations I see so this is the compensation part and and it can be it can be first of all uh individuals that take this to the extreme become paranoic they they they persecute that those all the persecutions in human history is started with compensation mechanisms it's a very very good thing for us to reflect upon in history right what uh what are the you know the outbursts of conflicts that may be simply put driven from the me mechanism of defense or Escape of a person that leads to Wars right it can lead to so many different things so it's a very good point for all of us in terms of this invitation to become more tolerant with ourselves and with others very good yeah especially not to let tolerance be degraded into acceptance blind acceptance which is what is happening today yeah you know um we we had the Seesaw so many so for so many so much time on one side that now what we did was this which is not good either there is there is a point of balance good point you need to be aware of compensation yeah what is the next one I'd love to to hear more we have then uh we have shifting okay all right and in shifting what we do is exactly what the name implies we shift responsibility uh to someone or something else it's shifting it's pushing it to someone or something else it can even be a thing uh a thing can be for instance a government uh or Society in general you might say oh but society and government societies and governments they're people yes but they are collectives made of people m but deal them with them as it you know as uh the the pronoun so so so it's almost like uh you Outsource if you will the responsibility of whatever to

ople yes but they are collectives made of people m but deal them with them as it you know as uh the the pronoun so so so it's almost like uh you Outsource if you will the responsibility of whatever to to whatever that is that it's not me as the responsible accountable for the situation right um yeah I I would say I I understand the Outsource I wouldn't put in that way because in Outsource you you actually um are paying you pay someone to do in this case you basically push it it's like blaming someone else blaming something else yes okay so in shifting or it's also called sliding there's another everything that gives this IDE but shifting I think is the one that describes It Best in my my point of view so you um for instance um I I called it is the Homer the the Homer Simpson syndrome uhhuh because in many cartoons he's always eating eating eating eating eating and then he says oh I am fat because food is so tasteful ah love it or he's always complaining about his boss right yeah and for those who know the Simpsons um he's always late to work he gets out he gets off work earlier or he doesn't go when he calls in sick when he's not sick he has all these very let's say unproductive irresponsible uh even unethical behavior and then when the boss says something the boss is against him the boss is persecuting him so these are the Manas of persecution we see the world going after us when in fact we are the ones that are not evaluating our position correctly absolutely we shift we shift the scales of responsibility to someone or something else um people can people when they get to a point of being pathological about this that they will they will create completely useless lawsuits for instance oh wow yeah it's a good point yeah this is like um you cross a red light you smash your car you don't hit anyone you you lose control because when the moment that you see or have already crossed and someone is coming then you smash your car and then you sue the the municipality for instance yeah yeah or you you come up

lose control because when the moment that you see or have already crossed and someone is coming then you smash your car and then you sue the the municipality for instance yeah yeah or you you come up with something silly like oh you know the the the the red light is too red or the red light is too small things like that and we're not going to discuss here why some individuals end up getting at least a settlement for those it's not our Point here but you do create an um an excess of useless s lawsuits that have to be addressed so we end up blocking the Justice Machinery in of society because of our Behavior yeah or we actually smash into another car and we can complain that the other car was crossing it's almost like why were you Crossing when I was cross yes yes yeah but you don't say when I was crossing and run and ran the red light yeah yeah I I I keep thinking if it and I may be completely wrong again but uh if shifting is not one of the reasons for um in the personality in the the the ego of those that commit those domestic violence right but you looked at me wrong and you it just a justification I don't know well keep on going it it just crossed my mind that may be a way to shift right it's not me that hit you it's because you looked a certain way or you looked a certain uh aspect of our relationship that led me to this right so I would say this you're on the right track okay but just to be continue it and being and be technical about it sure I appreciate that it would be projection and I'll explain to you it's the next one I I keep going to projection right Julio no um because in shifting uh even if I say you know like the Homer the Homer Simpson case about the boss yeah he complains about food being tasty right food is the it right um he doesn't really zero in on those things even though he s he sends the blame let's put it this way he sends the responsibility to yes but it's not that he go he uh actively goes against that individual I see that is the difference

ose things even though he s he sends the blame let's put it this way he sends the responsibility to yes but it's not that he go he uh actively goes against that individual I see that is the difference between the shifting and projection I see in projection there is an animosity against that it that thing yeah or that person I see he she or they more than one yes so there is a I mean now is a that is the the true man of persecution that individual so now it's no longer oh that person is um persecuting me because I have black hair dark brown hair no because then there are many people that have dark brown hair so they are also being no now it's that person is persecuting me I see that person is against me yeah it's it's it it's not that it's necessar well it's personal it is personal yeah yeah and it's it's the same principle and the other thing is that um in projection we retaliate we retaliate so actually best examples for projection in this case would be for instance and I'm sorry for those of you who love love a good boxing match but that is true uhuh we want the other when we want one of the boxers yeah to smash in the face of the other one that is US projecting in onto that in that that boxer we perhaps don't have the the opportunity or we don't have the nerve or we just don't have the physique whatever it is so we feel inadequate we project eject ourselves onto that big person that is punching the lights out of the other one and we are there you know screaming and yelling continue yes I want to see blood I want to see BL these were the big always the big games in the the circuses and the Arenas of the Roman Empire and before the Roman Empire and it continues today when for instance we um especially with kids right parents take their kids they want to let's say um uh learn martial arts some sort of some sort of martial arts and if you have a good professor a good teacher they will tell you that the martial arts is an Express actually called martial arts because it is a form of art it's

e sort of some sort of martial arts and if you have a good professor a good teacher they will tell you that the martial arts is an Express actually called martial arts because it is a form of art it's not for defense as we normally think of it's actually a a finding a an equilibrium a balance that joins the spirit ual side of ourselves with the physical side so it joins exercising which is physical purely physical with the with the um uh I would say the the doctrination or the uh the uh education development of development of our minds this is the true meaning so then when you go to a competition and you see people say doing the same thing you go there and you uh smash the Smashing the face of your opponent that's projection yeah so you project what's inside of us onto the other right exactly oh my goodness injection a segue is not introspection interjection interjection I I actually borrow someone's Behavior into my life and unfortunately and Janna J is uh who is a spiritual author she discusses it quite a lot it is very sad because today with television we have a tendency to behave sometimes and mimic uh uh characters from series from soap operas from movies and you see individuals trying to be what they are not I'm not talking about spending money or where to spend money it's not that it is really they they copy mannerisms way of walking way of talking all of these things these are these are uh it's very interesting right that so you you and and Joan in this case are bringing a cautionary tale of us not having anything so you borrow as you said I'm using your words somebody else's Persona if you will into mine and um not just suppose actually take over our own Persona or our own personality right good point it takes over it it starts with a gentle justos uh and and then EV like one overlaid on on the other and eventually that thing takes over because the individual wants it to take over the individual is actually the one that is pulling it in so uh it's important to say that the injection

n on the other and eventually that thing takes over because the individual wants it to take over the individual is actually the one that is pulling it in so uh it's important to say that the injection has a healthy part for instance you have a professor or you have an uncle or an aunt or or a parent a mother or father it doesn't matter you have someone you admire in that admiration you may copy certain habits and and actually that is how we start our lives mom and dad are super mom and super dad so kid they are superheroes until the kid begins to go to school a little more socialize a little more and then the kids begin to see the mom and dad are just like any other human being yes so that castle is dismantle but until then they copy everything you can tell kids how the the mannerisms of the parents and they're like mirrors yeah I love it I love it it's it's little sponges right including in and you can tell how Mom and Dad behave just by looking at the kids yeah you learn by proxy yes how the couple behaves yes right because the kids are like mirrors and but then in for the rest of our lives in healthy individuals we end up incorporating a few things from individuals that we acquire it's actually once someone said that copying someone is the highest form of compliment yes yes right um but the thing is the moment that you only copy you have nothing of yourself either you're very lazy or you are you have no self-esteem your self well nobody it's not that someone does not have self-esteem they don't develop it so either one is you know whether you're late too lazy or you don't have the self-esteem or you're not developing it they are both pathological conditions or or I'm thinking Julia you repress in who you are and you're substituting it and and and so from that perspective you actually uh what's the better word uh you're you're really not honoring all that you are right the the this historical uh in a in a from an immortal immortality perspective all that we bring and we're just annihilating that

better word uh you're you're really not honoring all that you are right the the this historical uh in a in a from an immortal immortality perspective all that we bring and we're just annihilating that and putting somebody else and uh and that will lead to uh an emptiness at some point right when you have to to face who you really are yes um you repress more in compensation um you repress more compensation shifting uh in these cases it's not so much the repr you still repressing you're absolutely correct you repress as well uh but in introspection injection m uh what you do is that you live a life that is not yours correct so it's you have two powder kegs it's just which one is going to explode first is it the one that you're creating by repressing what you are your true self or is it the one that is the the fantasy world about the individual that you are injecting from yeah if because you see tomorrow that individual does something silly okay what happens you realize oops that person is human like I am that person also has flaws and and then it's a big disappointment yeah I love that you say that Julia because um from the perspective of our role today in in this life of uh so many influencers out there right where uh whatever they wear becomes the FED of the day whever they express themselves but the fact is we're all humans we're all valuable we're vulnerable and and we may fail many many times so we need to to create at a minimum a a a a sense of filtering out the things that do not align with your let's say your moral compass exactly and I'm glad you you touched on the influencer uh uh problem because it's not let us put flaws aside we all have so but let us put them as if we didn't have but the circumstances are different for every individual when we create influences we create a protocol for human beings and if there is one thing that human beings cannot abide to is protocols you cannot just frame an individual you cannot pin them down say you have to be this this because that is

ocol for human beings and if there is one thing that human beings cannot abide to is protocols you cannot just frame an individual you cannot pin them down say you have to be this this because that is a that's for a robot because the set of circumstances for each person is different that's very very good point right is also very different to respond those cces yeah no no really really good point uh Julia what is the last one I'm dying just quickly I just want to say one thing sure that I said two powder cegs for inter right yeah but unfortunately what we observe most of the time is the individual dies with a ship sinks with a ship we see this with a copycats of suicides yeah this is why I that's right that's right yeah this it's the this a uh pop music singer or or band they commit suicide or they do something and the individual that adors them that has that that unhealthy admiration yeah ation is good but unhealthy admiration they end up repeating those things yeah yeah and and for all of us that may have succumbed into this scape mechanism right where we idolize we we really interject uh a role model so powerful to us that we we are in a place of uh of hurt when there is a you know a hurt out there is there anything we can do Julio is this how what is the help for that especially for those in the case of self harm or or or suicide well we something has for instance certain things have already been done that help a lot when when we have very famous individuals that um pass away because they convin suicide uh there are laws especially in the US that that you you don't advertise the suicide bombastically and it always ends up leaking un but at least there are laws you not to advertise suicides bombastically you know make it headlines everywhere the other thing is you never and this this they really track down even when it leaks you know you will notice that they don't tell they don't give the protocol the suicide protocol the details yeah at this time D drank this mix with that and no because once

ack down even when it leaks you know you will notice that they don't tell they don't give the protocol the suicide protocol the details yeah at this time D drank this mix with that and no because once you have this let's Called Death recipe yeah some people will copy it and it's and that's very sad yeah and it's very sad to hear that yeah now what we have to do is it's very hard you know life is always very so Dynamic we are always so busy with so many things but check on those around us say listen don't you think you have this unhealthy attachment to this pop singer or to this actor or actress or you know because this just these little nudges on a a constant basis may lead the person to realize that you know something is a Miss but we should give the nudges not berting the individual we should say say things like oh why do you imitate this person so much you have so many good qualities just use your good qualities things like that it's a nudge you're proding yes you you do you have to have some discipline and you have to be firm but at the same time invoke the good side because everyone has everyone has a good absolutely absolutely because what individuals sensing at that moment most of them is actually a lack of self-respect and because there is no or very little self-respect there is very little self-affirmation the individual loses his or her individuality in the group yeah so group to pull that indiv that individual out of that because it's it's like a it's like a turmoil and and the person is going down the drain basically so you have to pull the person from that situation and say look you have good you have good qualities let us use your good qualities let me look you're not doing let's say as a boss like you're mentioning you're not doing very good very well here but you're not doing what is uh you're not actually in the right place for yourself you have good qualities that would make you exceptional here and you move the person you don't move the person and make the

're not doing what is uh you're not actually in the right place for yourself you have good qualities that would make you exceptional here and you move the person you don't move the person and make the person feel that oh they're they're giving me arms basically yes what you say is this is where your ass your your good qualities will be an asset for the company or for the for the lab or for the office yeah now no this is very good point very very good point we normally don't do it that that like that we we have Protocols of berating whenever someone does not come at the right times it's not punctual doesn't uh uh um doesn't uh let's say produce Goods at the right date the due date uh but we don't see the other side and sometimes these protocols or the expectations yeah yeah so so so again I I would say this is the opportunity for us to think about let's be more human right let's be more human with with everyone let us trade Place me trade places mentally so as a boss I I've I I once was um uh head of library and also until about five years ago I was second in command in the lab I I want someone to do something for me and I want it for next week seven days from today is it seven days or is it seven days that the person has to work 19 hours a day including Saturday and Sunday would I be would I be able to fulfill what I am requesting and still be happy at the end of the day yeah yeah it's a very very very good notion for us to to understand the parameters of our request when we are in a position of of authority yeah I call is the business version of The Golden Rule doto others what you would like them to do love it love it love it it's the business version of it yeah because in the end you shoot yourself in the foot just um in terms of productivity if you exaggerate you get someone tired the person may fulfill that quota this time but now the person starts the next project or the next phase completely exhausted so we have to change these things yeah absolutely absolutely and

one tired the person may fulfill that quota this time but now the person starts the next project or the next phase completely exhausted so we have to change these things yeah absolutely absolutely and that is when we get we come to the fifth one yeah we're we're at the end of our time together so let's do this I'm concerned uh justification and rationalization is exactly what the name implies we basically find an explanation for our Behavior MH the moment that I find an explanation for my behavior my ego is satisfied my conscience is not the ethical part in me represented by the super ego the one that organizes my involvement my uh information my interaction with the surroundings is not happy but the ego takes place because the ego is overdeveloped in books byan ganeles for instance and uh there are many also other auor that are not spiritists uh they call this the self the development of the self with a capital s in this case right and actually for you guys this way right forgetting that you see the other way around and um so the when the ego is overdeveloped the self is underdeveloped because they have to be some sort of a balance so in this case I find an explanation and the moment that found an explanation for my my actions and actions here is actions oral you know speech and even thoughts to myself I'm Justified and I move on and I keep repeating it so uh if we want to put all together imagine for that I am the boss yeah I give you a task Maria and I know that that's crazy I mean you have to work let's say 19 hours seven days a week and it's not like seven days just now and then I'm going to tell you no then you take three days off because there are yeah variations no it's like seven seven now seven days now of 19 hours Saturday and Sunday included and then the next time is the same the same so I do that when you cannot fulfill my expectations okay I can launch different mechanisms of uh of compensation of of of escapism one for instance is a I I say that I shift blame I blame you oh

same so I do that when you cannot fulfill my expectations okay I can launch different mechanisms of uh of compensation of of of escapism one for instance is a I I say that I shift blame I blame you oh you are incompetent you are not as hard worker as I thought you were all of these things and I use these as justifications so I can continue to have the same behavior with other employees or with you again yes yeah so so this is really important Julia when we start uh breaking down uh it's a framework to think about it our our behaviors and the behavior of others but it's really important to understand so that we can perhaps stop using them and be more true to ourselves right and I think what you mentioned having the balance between the ego and the self of the capital S so that we we can transcend just the material aspect of our day-to-day lives love it yeah so it's just this is good such a good conversation hate to say goodbye but it's our time now and until next time Julio I really appreciate you coming here and giving us such an insightful explanation about the mechanism of defense of the ego thank you and see you next time bye everyone