Ep 48 - RENEWAL

hi everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Marcia Tran and with me are my dear friends Dr anaa and Jada horn go if this is the first time that you're here with us watching this podcast like program please please take a moment to note that these are weekly talks and they're based on the works by Joan at the Angeles they offer this safe space to confront compare correlate and expand spirituality Concepts from this psychological lens so the idea here is to bring insights and tips and even realworld advice to help you and I all of us lead a better life today with me are Dr and J corn go and we're here to discuss an interesting concept the concept of renewal rebirth refresh all of that that is bringing a new what may be no longer there as we know um this is this is interesting for us to to think especially at this time of the year the beginning of a new year but before we start our conversation I just wanted to first and foremost uh recognize the organizations that are sponsoring our program Today TV Manel Cino the United States Spirits Federation the international Spirits Council and Amy Brazil and I ask you to please hit subscribe if you haven't already done so and if you'd like to check out other channels uh do so by uh hitting the spiritist Us website also please put your feedback your thoughts your ideas your questions so that we can address them if not today at a later time but we are here to talk about this concept as I mentioned of renewals and I I go through this this book uh that was published oh about 20 years ago where Janna gan is in collaboration with Deval Franco published Jesus in The Gospel in light of depth psychology and uh the the the points about renews which is quite dense in my opinion on chapter five it is you know it is there and I thought we could talk a little bit today together and uh remember that uh you know dictionary definition of renewal is to restore anything to a prior state of either

e it is you know it is there and I thought we could talk a little bit today together and uh remember that uh you know dictionary definition of renewal is to restore anything to a prior state of either freshness or Perfection and if we think about let's let's take a moment to imagine as back 2,000 years ago at the time of Jesus Christ and what was Humanity going through at the time and what was needed to be renewed at the time right so just going to just ask you to make take a moment or so to talk about from a spiritual perspective what do you think about that time and maybe even some examples of renewal that we can find for example in the Bible in some of the stories that are brought to us through Jesus oh hello Mercia hello an that's so nice for us to be here again and um yeah talking about renewals New Year all of that it always brings things to our minds and I think that it's quite interesting that intuitively human beings every time we go from an year to another human beings try to reset themselves and uh what does it means for them you I mean when I talk about human beings of course I'm talking about about myself as well what means right for us to do that I think that in a ways like we know that it's you know um in our mind I I can or we can um start again we we can assess what we have done and in a certain way try to you know in this assessment see what we should not repeat and what should we continue doing so it's exactly what a new reincarnation means to us it is exactly this opportunity of you know it's not a new year but it is a new Incarnation right and in this chapter Joanna the Evangelist he starts exactly mentioning quoting um a passage that John writes in this gospel uh chapter 3 verse three that no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again and we will be commenting more you know the whole context about this uh teachings of Jesus later on but it's uh one thing that we understand and that we learn in terms of spiritism in this whole process of

e will be commenting more you know the whole context about this uh teachings of Jesus later on but it's uh one thing that we understand and that we learn in terms of spiritism in this whole process of getting to know ourselves of evaluating uh you know what we have done so far and what there is a still for us to achieve and what would be the the best Pathways for us to you know to to go in order to achieve our goals and in in this sense Janna DeAngelis when she brings this uh chapter in the the Jesus and the gospel in the light of the psychology she she talks about about that of course in a much profound way I mean this is a chap that we have to read read and reread a couple of times at least to really grasp what she's trying to do but she brings Jesus as being the main um character that we should analyze and that we should uh you know really like we we have in the the answer from the spirit's book when the you know being Jes is the guide and the model first showing one thing that is very important yet so very difficult for us to do he mentions that when he came to Earth uh times were very difficult if we are if we think that we are living in difficult times let us just think about 2,000 years more you know and the time of Jesus we were basically barbarians right of course like today we don't think of ourselves like you know there is much for us to learn but when we look back and we look the actions uh the reactions the events that happened during that time I mean we were we had so much to learn so she starts by uh pointing out the context we in which Jesus was born being surrounded by a game of personal interest po po uh Politics as well Wars and poverty and domination of peoples over others and then she says he did not allow any of the Shadows that were happening in the surroundings to reach him and why is that while she continues in this chapter she uh she finally clears up that it's not because just a matter of saying yes or no it is a matter of understanding

n the surroundings to reach him and why is that while she continues in this chapter she uh she finally clears up that it's not because just a matter of saying yes or no it is a matter of understanding that once we reach a certain level of evolvement and in this case we are talking about the highest level of evolvement that we know of nothing of this is going to be uh contaminate you anymore and be part of your history but at the same time she points out that regardless of the spiritual evolvement of Jesus he was still able to have and to stablish a relationship with us and to come here to teach us ESP especially about taking advantage of the moment we are living and this has nothing to do with material things but really to get to know ourselves and how we are going to be acting upon it so I love it I love it and uh one of the things that in this chapter we we find Joanna d' angelist calling Jesus as this instructor she also calls him the Supreme psychotherapist so you know um an would have to go back to you because there's some Concepts such as that of collective shadow that she she mentioned Joanna mentioned as something that could have corrupted or contaminated as you mentioned just Jesus but he was exempt right he he he was in that environment but he was not tainted or corrupted by by that very primitive uh psychosphere if you if you can call that but uh can you maybe anay maybe uh think about uh or explain here today uh some of the things that uh from that uh psychology perspective right uh what is the concept of that Collective Shadow and potentially and I'm not sure if I'm confusing here but also perhaps the idea of the collective unconscious as per uh Carl gusta Yung and how we when we talk about renewals we we need to understand that uh uh we it's embedded in in us but we like Jesus can uh rise above it uh and instead of being corrupted by it actually transform it right add it a a positive component to that Collective unconscious I hope I Mak sense everyone so we have to understand

n uh rise above it uh and instead of being corrupted by it actually transform it right add it a a positive component to that Collective unconscious I hope I Mak sense everyone so we have to understand that as as said 2,000 years ago we were like barbarians right like a spirit spiritually speaking like children so because we were doing bad things to each other and of course to ourselves right slavery and domination like J said and things like that uh but we already had at least where Jesus was born right uh people already had an idea of some Unity of some Transcendence of U an only God that I'm talking now about uh from the that psychological point of view right so that's why he was able to come because uh you we as human beings have to have at some point to live um the to live the childhood let's say okay we have to have a notion that we belong to something greater than ourselves and this was happening by the time Jesus came the notion of an only God not lots of God different gods okay it was happening more or less at the same time because it was the Roman Empire and they worshiped a lot of uh different gods from Greek times and all that that that's history we all know that but there was a and that population where um Jesus was born and in that region because we know that even in in Greece they already they um they talked about an unknown unknown God right that it it was the the gods the the unity above all others but especially uh there uh the region that uh where Jesus was born um and the population and in the different um the different races if we can say that were in contact with each other because I'm talking not um politically or um historically but psychologically so that population and they were in they were in contact with each other those people i''s say peoples a lot of different uh but they were they already had the idea of unity of a totality of a Transcendent being that created everything and that we were let's say psychologically speaking emanations or

s a lot of different uh but they were they already had the idea of unity of a totality of a Transcendent being that created everything and that we were let's say psychologically speaking emanations or part of that totality uh children of that totality that we called God so this is very very important why because without this archetype without this um that it's the god image not the God but the way that we can perceive God and the unity that uh God represents without that it would be impossible for Jesus to teach all the other you know this his teachings because in the in the bottom of of all Jesus teaches was um he talks about love and God is love because it's creation love creates ultimate love let's say creates everything it's the light the light with capital L right so without this sense of connection at least in the unconscious not that it was so conscious for people that time but it would have been impossible for Jesus to even even you know even with the Parables uh with the stories and with moral Concepts that he was teaching it would be quite difficult because then we would like be like embryos let's say not children not even born to this reality making this analogy right so we were already born for that um idea concept of totality in our consciousness at least you know had an idea and uh and then he could come at that point okay but you you guys talked about the shadow so what happens is that it was let's say in our mind's Consciousness uh but not in exactly in our egos like we really developed right the idea of a totality because the and that we are children of this totality of God because if it were then what would have happen is that okay no slavery anymore we are all okay we are all brothers and sisters cool you know it would be okay then okay Jesus was just coming to say yeah you guys are cool let's go to the next step but it wasn't like this because there was lots of slav as J said a lot of um Wars people trying to dominate each other poverty and all

st coming to say yeah you guys are cool let's go to the next step but it wasn't like this because there was lots of slav as J said a lot of um Wars people trying to dominate each other poverty and all of that so uh what happened is that the ego um Consciousness okay um is related to it's trying to adapt to the culture that um the person is um inside that culture right but but deep inside we have a knowledge uh because of our selves our higher selves our you know the as Jung said the greater personality let's say that we are like jna says our spirit okay so our spirit was evolved uh enough to know this reality that we are part of something much much bigger than ourselves so transpersonal knowledge that we are not only this person but the ego says no but when I'm here you know people were there in that culture so I want to have power I want to be satisfied so what happens is that everything that is coming from the unconscious saying oops don't do that don't go to war don't treat people badly uh you know pay attention respect each other but then the eagle say no no this is not right I don't want to listen to this inner voice so it kind of protects itself from the knowledge that is coming from inside then the shadow is born so you can imagine that there was if if the the Consciousness the collective consciousness of unity was already there and the concept of God was already there uh especially in that uh region with that that Collective you know the culture the Hebrews and all you know different uh people that were in contact with each other but the ego wanted to have power to you know to be uh like the like the Roman Empire have be rich be this and that so of course there was a lot of Shadow because the conflict is always always first and atmost uh within ourselves that's the kingdom that we have to conquer so what happened is that Jesus knew that when he came and exactly as just start saying that Joanna is telling us in this chapter he it was not contagious let's say the the collective Shadow because

er so what happened is that Jesus knew that when he came and exactly as just start saying that Joanna is telling us in this chapter he it was not contagious let's say the the collective Shadow because our own personal Shadow is in contact with everybody's shadows and making a collective Shadow but he was able to be here because he he knew past present and future of each and every one of us so he knew we were developing he was not talking talking to our egos he was talking to our higher selves he was and I love when Yung calls the archetypes tools of God in the psych spiritual principles in the pych and the the principle archetype let's say the main archetype is the imod the unity the totality so Jesus was helping us with all his love his wisdom of such an evolv and wonderful Soul showing us the path that we should be we should walk and we have been walking this path for Millennia right 2,000 years and more so I would say that um you guys made a lot of sense talking about the shadow first of all that's that's he was you know he was not contaminated by the shadow because he was all integration as J said so well if we integrate all the knowledge that little by little we achieve in different lives then at some point the collective shadow of you know of people who are still struggling to deny their own conflicts will not contaminate us anymore so back to you guys yeah very good I I just wanted to remind all of us right that uh you mentioned the archetypes and yung's major uh archetype includes that idea of rebirth right which is what we're discussing here but as we're we're talking about Jesus as we're talking about 2,000 years ago roughly uh wanted to maybe J if you could talk a little bit about the parable which is one of my very very favorite the parable of Good Samaritan and uh if you don't know what that is it's basically uh it's in the Gospel of Luke uh um chapter 10 29 through 37 but it's basically it's the idea that a man and we don't know what type of man right uh this is but he was

know what that is it's basically uh it's in the Gospel of Luke uh um chapter 10 29 through 37 but it's basically it's the idea that a man and we don't know what type of man right uh this is but he was traveling from Jerusalem to Jericho and like many of the time he was robbed uh attacked by robbers and those men those individuals robbed him attacked him stripped him of everything he owned and beat him up and he was left for dead naked and with nothing else on the road and a priest and a levite pass by and they don't help him at all in fact they go away from where he was and a Samaritan stopped took care of this man took him to an end and even paid for his care while he was gone and he was going to come back so there's a lot of uh touch points and and and very very profound teachings that Jesus brought to us in in this one short Parable but J can you talk a little bit about some of the main topics that this Parable brings to us and how does it connect with uh this this knowledge that we're talking here uh about 2,000 years ago right Martia um well actually the study of it is fair hor it would be a podcast by itself so try to point out some important aspect that we have and one of them is uh explaining how Jesus knew his crowd right he knew exactly to whom he was talking to what kind of vocabulary was he going to be using using symbolisms that would touch uh you know the people according to their knowledge and then their their understanding at the time and this was a a question you know what raised it what brought about Jesus to to to to give us this parable of the Good Samaritan was because he was inquired by a priest that actually didn't want to know anything I me at that point he was sure there was nothing he could learn from Jesus still he wanted to triat Jesus he wanted to you know to have um the possibility of saying that he was wrong in this or that and when he asks about uh you know how someone can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven this is where the beauty of you

d to you know to have um the possibility of saying that he was wrong in this or that and when he asks about uh you know how someone can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven this is where the beauty of you know psychologist psychotherapist just comes about because he uses the Socratic method he just he doesn't reply to the question because he knew that whatever he answered he would be against or like many times it happens we we live in a very difficult world like now social media where many of the communication we do by writing people put their P punctuation in the ination as they they please and not necessarily on how we are saying things or we wish to say things I can wish you you know happy holidays and then oh this person is being very cynical with me because she knows that you know 10 years ago my Christmas was not that good or whatever you know people can understand things the way they want according to their mental out look so by saying that he knew that no answer would be satisfactory to him so he gives him this the chance to reply himself what is written in the law and then Jesus says exactly what you say go and do the same you know God love love God and etc etc etc but then he wants more and then who is my neighbor because in the law is saying you have to also to love your neighbor and then he J then again Jesus doesn't reply to the question he comes with the parable of the Good Samaritan and asks him who do you think was the Good Samaritan of this man was the not the Good Samaritan who do you think helped his men yeah and it was the Samaritan because there was Pharisee the levite ETC that didn't help him all with a name you know to to show about love uh without any kind of prejudice without any kind of discrimination and this as well because when we put um reincarnation into you know the conversation I you may be born in as you were today but you can have or definitely you had different experiences in different cult cultures in different ethnicities in the past and while uh an

now the conversation I you may be born in as you were today but you can have or definitely you had different experiences in different cult cultures in different ethnicities in the past and while uh an was talking right and um I was thinking how hard it must be to be a psychotherapist psychotherapeut uh and and psychiatrist without the understanding of reincarnation because you know we have to look at the patient as the patient being a tabula Raza right the concept of blank late which was the idea that individuals were born empty of any building mental content this is what Shan d'angeles is is is is telling us now and this is what we learn as well in spiritism if we think about that how would we in terms of civilization would be piling up information I mean we would always be uh born everyone in the same level so there was no building in and accordance to this chapter as she says you know we have to deal with a lot of things that is stored in the computer of our mind for incarnations and more incarnations and but we have to understand as well what is the aim that we have for this incarnation in kardak when he asked for the spirits and the spirit spoke about the aim of incarnation question 132 the spirits reply the main aim is to reach Perfection is to learn from the M the mistakes is you know is to work all of those Concepts all of the habits the Customs the archetypes everything so that we can finally be part of a um the uh the unconscious oh no what is uh what sorry the conscious how do does she say Cosmic conscious yes Cosmic conscience just one remark before I pass back to you remember that when we are talking about Cosmic conscience there are many people or you know there are some people some uh philosophical um doctrines that they say that when we uh get to this point is like we are going to lose our individuality that we are part of God and like you know it just going to be like a cell in the body of God so to say and this is not so when we are talking about Cosmic conscience it means yes

ose our individuality that we are part of God and like you know it just going to be like a cell in the body of God so to say and this is not so when we are talking about Cosmic conscience it means yes partaking of you know know all the mysteries of the universe and so on but it's still maintaining our individuality I love it and I do want to add to that uh the concept of individuality individuation in light of the reaching this Cosmic Consciousness yeah um um I remember listening to to the S when Joanna says that we are air to ourselves let's say to our own journey and there would be no point if uh even to Evolution if we were to you know make all our personal Journeys and achieve this integration of all the wisdom the experiences that are unique because each one of us have uh um like the evolution the common ground is the same right that we are all brothers and sisters we are CH children of this unity and this Giver of Life Light and love that we call God but we have free will so uh and free will to choose our experiences to learn with them to decide uh which path we want to go in travel in each reincarnation right that J was talking about so of course we are unique in this way that's why one of the concepts that Yun talks about is individuation it's not individualization because not to be individual part of each other but it's individuation like say the so is blooming came to my mind right Yung doesn't say like that like this poetic image you know that we can um we can be and like growing in a in integrating everything that we learn step by step in this life and in previous life so that we can integrate and be you know like like in the spirit's book from the atom to the Archangel right I remember the name is 500 and what you said of them 54 that we we normally know yeah 540 that's it so that someday we can get to the stage that we know of it's evolution is you know limited but that we know of as Archangel State let's say so so how it it could we could think of as an individuation of the soul of

y we can get to the stage that we know of it's evolution is you know limited but that we know of as Archangel State let's say so so how it it could we could think of as an individuation of the soul of the spirit right when we integrate and we um we develop Consciousness spiritual consciousness our higher self our spirit in such a way that we integrate all of our experience like Jesus right um the highest evolved so that we have been in contact Direct contact with right so that's why he is the way he's showing us the way to this um Cosmic Consciousness where we partake as you said as s of Love of um you know abely absolutely and I think it's quite since we are in this point that to the end of the chapter says that spiri is psychology supported by laboratory experience I always think why is you want to saying that a sentence that like just I said we have to read many times because there are like in the in the our computers open some windows and then you go and go and then you you get the you know at least as much as we can her message the whole message but yes as a psychiatrist and doing research myself yes the the science is coming to this point where um it's proving spiritist psychology because we have um past life experiences many people especially in the United States I know that um do past life therapy for instance we have a near-death experiences that are studied and researched by uh psychiatrists and neurologists and other medical personnel around the world and so we have lots of experiences that are showing us that Spirit psychology yes is the path that we have we haven't like um like just said we are not not like Freud thought um taba that it's in Latin right we are not a blank of paper that we can um just say oh nothing is written and when we are uh born then um uh then the experiences begin and then the ego evolves yes but what about all our heritage what about the archetypes what about you know all the images mythology religions all all over the globe that

uh then the experiences begin and then the ego evolves yes but what about all our heritage what about the archetypes what about you know all the images mythology religions all all over the globe that come with images uh that have all this content that it's uh actually built by human human beings right and and they appear in our day-by-day lives and one of the archetypes we are talking about is rebirth yes death and rebirth you know it's a they are powerful archetypes because everything and we are part of nature our site is part of nature everything in nature is transforming all the time so has to die and has to um to have a rebirth has to uh you know be born again so I think it's beautiful as Janna says that um and she says it takes rebirth right uh spiri is psychology as a paradigm uh for upholding Divine justice so we can understand better Divine Justice and experiential mechanisms for the conquest of the profound self of our higher self isn't it all about since we are beginning a New Year all about um what the information that comes to us through uh um the spiritist knowledge that we are and through other channels of knowledge in different cultures that we are evolving globally our planet Earth is evolving to an we are leaving the previous step where we have um The Suffering you know and we are going to a new uh step in evolution in human kind uh to and the planet itself to a different stage where spirituality will be like you know something natural and then we will finally understand the gospel not only understand but practice as well love it no I love it I appreciate that so much the the idea that it's from the the various components of this discussion right and and some of the um very specific um content such as reincarnation but also the archetype the collective Shadow Etc but the idea that when we put it all together we'll be able to to truly truly uh dive deeply into the lessons that the like Joanna d' angelist told us the Supreme psychotherapist Jesus brought to us so

ut the idea that when we put it all together we'll be able to to truly truly uh dive deeply into the lessons that the like Joanna d' angelist told us the Supreme psychotherapist Jesus brought to us so many years ago and uh if you if you could allow me I just wanted to share a metaphor that uh that Joanna brings to us in this book right and she says we're born of the spirit like the wind that blows where wishes and no one knows where it comes from or where it goes and I just thought that idea of uh of a wind blowing and nobody stops to ask but where you came from where you're going it just is and we in this great Enigma of our destiny right the human Destiny it's really important for us to understand that the the direction depending on where it goes because of Free Will right of our us as Spirits as the wind that blows it's up to us to to find the The evolu evolutionary journey to get to that integration to the cosmic Consciousness love it love the thoughts um and I want to before we close today maybe if umara you can give us a little bit more about um the the idea of uh of renews from those teachings uh of Jesus that you may want to share with the with the audience today okay just one thing first because I'm not to resist saying that next time any of you is in therapy don't blame your mother okay so easy to just blame on the mother right you know that's a default right default your your frustrations and everything that is you know may seem wrong with you Joanna d'angelis makes it very clear here that it's everything that we bring with us and like it says here and every effect that has a cause in whatever we are sewing today this is what we are going to be harvesting you know and in the future it can be a very near future or it can be another Incarnation so let us think about it now but I think in the in the times of Jesus right there is a very important um conversation that he had with uh one very you know prom prominent U Pharisee that was Nicodemus and he was a doctor of the law

t I think in the in the times of Jesus right there is a very important um conversation that he had with uh one very you know prom prominent U Pharisee that was Nicodemus and he was a doctor of the law which means and you know he was there in the S sanadrin and had all the uh respect right and um he comes to Jesus trying to understand uh how it is to be born again because when Jesus tells him the necessity of being born again he doesn't understand although at that time they had the concept of resusitation he could not understand you know the death of what Jesus was trying to tell him uh one thing that Joanna the angelist comments here about the personality of Nicodemus is that he was kind of vain but in a way although he was a very knowledgeable man he something deep inside told him that he had to hear Jesus respect Jesus but he was not ready for the work and this is what is hard for all of us because many times in this process of renewal right we know um what is not right with us but between knowing and doing it's kind of hard and this is the thing that that he was you know he was listening to Jesus eagerly but uh he was still not willing to do what it had to be to done to do right and had to be done and so uh it's when Jesus explains or or asks you are a doctor of the law and you still do not know of those things right when he explains about you know being born of the spirit and being born of the the Flesh and when Joanna deangel expl complains about you know the the wind and everything so um he was showing that rebirth is the key to understanding reality is the key to understanding the human human Destiny and everything that happens after so unfortunately at that time Nicodemus was very sympathetic to Jesus but he still could not follow him um I'm sure is on the right path but but can we just tell us here can we as we hear this this discussion here of uh rebirth renewal are we ready what do we need to do to be ready for this very very powerful message yours live and just go

but can we just tell us here can we as we hear this this discussion here of uh rebirth renewal are we ready what do we need to do to be ready for this very very powerful message yours live and just go right this is what what she one of the angelist was was talking about Nicodemus here we do not want to be like Nicodemus he was before Jesus did Jesus was having a private conversation with him explaining things to him uh you know and it's still unable to yeah yeah and I think it's uh we cannot imagine that we are going to be able to do everything that has to be done in just one Incarnation that's why God is good God is God is merciful and there are so many but we have to understand that we have to start somehow and this is you know no judgment no judging you just thinking you know what is my goal what do I have to do and just follow you know this this purpose this aim what is the aim of my reincarnation it is for me to be better and sometimes it means to drink a very very very very very very very bitter mic yes but it's is for your own own good there is nothing that comes out of our way that is it doesn't have an name to improve us to make us um more and more spiritual evolved but of course we complicate things we do we do we we meddle right we meddle into this bitter medicine and uh often we are also corrupted by the environment that we're immersed so as we have just a few minutes left na do you want to give us a message of uh rebirth and renewal for all of us what do we need to put in our hearts to be able to be better able to to accept the message that Jesus brought to us two Millennia ago yes I think it's all about exactly as um J said that Jan is you know showing us uh with this U wonderful book and her writings through deal that we must know ourselves better as much as we can because this is the path because the kingdom is inside of each one of us and that's the kingdom that we have to conquer and just to say goodbye I'll I'll leave you with a wonderful uh sentence by Eric

because this is the path because the kingdom is inside of each one of us and that's the kingdom that we have to conquer and just to say goodbye I'll I'll leave you with a wonderful uh sentence by Eric Newman he was a very known uh yungan Psy um psychologist and he wrote a wonderful book uh history of the origin of Consciousness and he says the relationship between the ego and the unconscious and between the personal and the transpersonal right decides the destiny of the individual as well as that of humanity the stage for this encounter is the human mind isn't that beautiful so it's everything that J has just said but putting in the psychological terms so let's be psychotherapist of ourselves yeah we in that PSY psychotherapist come from Psych that it's the psych our Psych and therapist from the Greek it has a Greek origin is to take care let's say to serve so let's take care of our SES of our souls to do the best we can and to renew ourselves every day if we can I love it thank you thank you both I I hope all of us who are here today listening to this uh conversation can take this advice and let's be therapists to ourselves to our souls to our vulnerable inner child that we often find ourselves as the hurt one but with that I'll see you next week as we continue our discussions thank you everyone byebye