Ep 42 - Anima and Animus - The Return of the Prodigal Son

hi everyone welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Marcia trano and with me is Dr Dan aisi an award-winning author and internationally celebrated speaker who has delivered hundreds of talks and conferences on spirituality in over 60 cities on four continents to me and many of us Dan is known for both his deep thinking and W humor so I'm really really excited to have you with me Dan and I look forward to spending the next few minutes with you and to just hear your insights into psychology and spirituality but this is you know if this is the first time that you're watching this podcast like program please note that our weekly program the psychology in spirituality talks are based on the works by Joanna deangeles and it's a space that is safe to confront compare correlate expand spirituality Concepts from a psychological lens bring insights tips reor advice and we may even think a joke or two but we're here to really understand how can we have better lives and today I wanted to ask all of us here what do Jesus rbrand and car Gustaf Jung have in common any ideas dad that sound sounds like the beginning of a joke Marcia but it is not it is a serious topic we're talking about here today absolutely clues that you can give us well maybe a parable a painting psychological Concepts anyways today's episode will bring this animated discussion and hope you and I both find out what are we talking about but before we start our conversation in Earnest I would like to recognize some organizations that are sponsoring this program they are iy Brazil the TV mon commum the international Spirits Council and United States Spirits Federation make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already done so and if you'd like to check us out please do reach us at spiritist us if you have any questions any feedback critic ISM anything let us know just use the chat window if we don't have time today we will address them in the future so danad are you ready to to start with this joke

ave any questions any feedback critic ISM anything let us know just use the chat window if we don't have time today we will address them in the future so danad are you ready to to start with this joke no conversation about uh Jesus's words and Parables what do you think no but let's do it anyways right um I think that I just want to start by saying how great it is to be able to talk with you again Marcia and also to be bble to have a chance to share some thoughts about this important topics that have great impact for our Liv so I'm really excited about our conversation tonight so let's go ahead and get started tell us about a certain Parable that uh Jesus uh gave it to us several thousand years ago right indeed and and one that keeps echoing Through The Ether so to speak and I think speaks greatly to my heart and and one of the things that we've been talking about and reflecting a little bit on is this incredible story this parable of the prodigal son I think we all know this Parable it shows up in the gospels and we know that this is a story about a son that decides that life at the farm with his father and his other brother is not enough for him and so he has the audacity to ask his father for the check right he asks him hey can I have my inheritance now and the father gives it to him and he takes that money and the next day he is out the door he goes to a far and distant land where he lives it up he spends all his money on food pleasure company you name it to a certain point that he run runs out of it and in that distant land we know that there is a femine and he sees himself in trouble he does no longer has money he doesn't have a place to stay he's got to go after work and we realize that all of his so-called friends have abandoned him and there's no one to help him because they were not really his friends to begin with they were just there for his money and so he has a choice what is he gonna do does he go back home no he wants to go back and insist on that new

because they were not really his friends to begin with they were just there for his money and so he has a choice what is he gonna do does he go back home no he wants to go back and insist on that new lifestyle that he has so he decides to find a job but because he's not very qualified to do anything because he's been parting it up the only job that he can get is that of serving the pigs or attending to the pigs in a farm and if you know the Jewish culture you might remember that the pigs unclean animals not the fanciest or most lovable job to be to to do in a farm and and while he's doing that right he's hungry he is dirty he's feeding the pigs and he realizes that he wishes he could eat the food that he's giving to the pigs because he's that desperate and in that moment in that moment of challenge of pain of desperation he realizes he's not in the right place he really messed things up and he ought to go back home to the farm with his father because even at his father's Farm the servants live better than he does right there so he cries he falls onto himself um and he decides he's going to make his way back to the farm and in the process of doing that he really you know goes through himself and one of my favorite parts of this passage is that when he's getting close to the farm the father is already waiting for his return he's looking down the road and runs towards him meets him hugs him he he asks the father for forgiveness because he has sinned that is to say he has made mistakes and he wants to go go back as a surf and a father you know as all Parables full of symbolism says no bring him sandals bring him a ring to S to signify that you're not going to be a servant a ring means commitment a sandal means you are part of the Gentry you're not part of the servant so you you have your status as a child of him a father reinstituted so he goes back as as you know as a regular member of the family not as a servant aha but the parable doesn't end there the best part of the

ou have your status as a child of him a father reinstituted so he goes back as as you know as a regular member of the family not as a servant aha but the parable doesn't end there the best part of the parable for me is that when he gets there and his father is throwing a party he has asked the servants to kill the the calf that was being fattened so that they can celebrate in a great barbecue right celebrate Feast um the other brother the older brother that has been there for a while has never left hears about this as he coming back and he refuses to go into the party because he cannot understand how the father has welcomed the other brother who has spent all his money who has spent all this time in betray them so to speak and a beautiful thing here also happens the father also goes outside the party to receive the other son too and try to convince him and say hey he was lost but now he's found and this is one of the sentences I think we recognize from our Western culture lost but now found it's one of the ways in that it appears here but um but this is this is the modern really quick rendition of the parab Marcia I fig talk a little bit about just that for context because I think that Parable is re really um relevant to us today and here's the reason why one is because if you're listening to this you're probably thinking about spirituality and you're probably trying to find ways to have a better life and transform yourself and I think you know we can all agree we could spend hours here going to the different parts of the parable breaking things apart but I think we can all agree that each one of us is sort of in a journey right of a journey of finding out what's important to us and make sure that we are not starving like the prodigal son was when he went out and made choices that are not great right we all want to be welcomed back we want to be loved we want to be accepted but in addition to that I also think that is as all Parables by Jesus the the extreme and most enlightened psychologist there ever

l want to be welcomed back we want to be loved we want to be accepted but in addition to that I also think that is as all Parables by Jesus the the extreme and most enlightened psychologist there ever was in my opinion there's also many different layers and I think that socially we can also see that Parable as the parable of our society right we have also left our ways and have left our farm our Origins behind a little bit and we have focused on you the material world and we have you and we got a little sidetracked and I think that the pandemic sort of served as that famine a little bit bit right where we experience some some harshness that has led us to reconsider whether the life we had before was really the life we wanted and I think that many of us got shaken up a little bit about that and said that you know what maybe maybe my life wasn't what I wanted it to be maybe I need to find another job I'm on a meaning in life and and kind of reevaluate things I think that we're seeing that in the world today people do not want to go back to the office to work they want work from home they have moved to different cities because it's a better quality of life there's all kinds of you know things happening right um we could think about this in many different ways with our spiritist perspective on things so we can kind of Park that aside in terms of planetary transition and so forth but what I think is really cool too Maria is that we generally focus on one of the kids right we focus on the child that went away away from the farm correct but if we pay attention we also see that the second one that stay behind was also not very accepting at all he did not accept his brother back so I think it's a parable of Two Brothers then it's really not of we need to go back right to say uhuh let's rewrite the title of the of the parable it's the parable of the two sons the two the two prodal sons right because both of them are prodigal son in different ways one obviously he was young and foolish he

ite the title of the of the parable it's the parable of the two sons the two the two prodal sons right because both of them are prodigal son in different ways one obviously he was young and foolish he chose to go out and live it up in the world and appeal to his senses right and have pleasure women dreams vices whatever you have it things that we have done to no judgment there but the other one who stayed behind when the brother came back he did not want to accept him so where whereas he has not gone out has not lived it up right the like the other brother he also stayed home and his ego was high at on both cases right if we we just stop a little bit here because I really want us to finish wrap this up and go into that certain uh character that I said the rembrand character so we'll park there but what I think about this thing is beautiful is that Parable touched a certain painter in such a way Marcia that may I bring it up may I bring it out please please do it that's this is the star of the show this is the star of the show right here yes H so who who is this painter right so uh rembrand um who's an amazing painter um and this painting specifically is in the in Russia in St Petersburg in the Hermitage and and uh has brought us this amazing rendition of what we're talking here in terms of the return of the prodigal son and we can talk later uh Dan on the the the ego Centric um uh from both uh of the the sons of the two sons but uh can we start to tie in the actual narrative the the context which is The Narrative of the parable the painting and how would that translate into some very interesting and needed de definitions of animals and anima within uh car gusta yung's uh uh concept yeah and this is what I think it's really fascinating because you know I have to tell you I had looked at this before this painting and and didn't really pay much attention to it but after this Parable and after a nudge from a friend I realized that rebron was on to something here because this is one

d at this before this painting and and didn't really pay much attention to it but after this Parable and after a nudge from a friend I realized that rebron was on to something here because this is one of the paintings that by the end of his life he's really thinking about the different things he's an incredible artist which for me is slightly Sy synonymous with medium as well that's the different conversation um but let's look at this picture we see here two people in red in draped in royal colors one is the father who is holding and welcoming the The Prodigal Son who's returning in tattered clothes right and the other one and as side is the other brother and also there are some witnesses and some people watching again spiritually speaking we can have a conversation about that but let's spark that but here's what got me Marcia which I thought it was amazing if we look at the back of the prodigal son who is embracing the father and we notice the two hands of the father if we were able to zoom out which is a little bit hard to do here on I don't know how to do it my my apologies everyone well I think that people can go out and search for prodigal sat return it to prodigal s and find this picture right and we can notice that the two hands of the father are different on the right side we have a softer hand with longer fingers more conducive to what we normally would think of of a woman's hand if you cover in fact the rest of the father with your hand as you're looking at and you look just at the hands that that uh division that distinction is made more clear on the other hand of the father and this is not a play on word I'm really saying on the other hand right we see a more masculine hand we see a hand that is thicker more like has been working on the field that we would normally associate with a male figure even the colors right Dan one is much softer and pale and the other one it looks like somebody who's been in the Sun and and working in the feuds for example for a

ormally associate with a male figure even the colors right Dan one is much softer and pale and the other one it looks like somebody who's been in the Sun and and working in the feuds for example for a little bit right and so how can it be that someone can have two different hands and that is when we begin to think about Yung right because I think what rebron is sending as a message here that you know obviously I think by now we can agree that most of us would think as the father in The Farm as this idea of God right uh spiritually speaking but here there is two manifestations of the same God there is a masculine and there is a feminine and both of them are embracing the return of the prodigal son and I think that is really something for us to ponder over because traditionally as this is in this you know this Parable and in the world that we live in today to this dat we have a bias towards the male energy many different ways we think that that's the model for success and so forth and so we talk about the father being the God but we seldom talk about the mother being the god the god or the goddess right but here I think that there is a very interesting question that is raised up to us as what is the role are the feminine in the masculine and what is the role of the masculine in the feminine and how does then this sit with us because what rebron is doing here he's he's he's doing that entire Parable in one picture correct and in there he's able to tell us there is a feminine side of divinity or some sort of energy that is feminine like right right and that is a complicated topic to go into because I want to make sure that people understand that we're talking about ideas and Concepts and not necessarily gender right um and then the other side there's also the masculine side to it so do we have both sides in us should we work on those and I think Young has an answer for that if I'm not mistaken right I'm the doctor of Education I want to be make sure that's clear I am not a medical doctrin or

oth sides in us should we work on those and I think Young has an answer for that if I'm not mistaken right I'm the doctor of Education I want to be make sure that's clear I am not a medical doctrin or physician but I find that R Brun has thrown us for a loop here in a good way and he is sort of like almost having a I I almost feel like RM BR is sitting at a table talking to Yung about this even though they lived in completely different periods of time yes right uhuh because Yung brings up to us this concept of animus and anema right and the Animus if I get this right is the male energy in the female unconscious and the enema is the opposite yes right so we have there a female energy of the male unconscious right so it begs the question what kind of perspectives energies and experiences do we have within us because although today I identify as male in this lifetime clearly there's also a different side of me that hearken back hearkens back to that softness implied by that hand because men are not just rough neither are women soft and right breakable none of these these generalizations are completely true and so it leads us to believe that there is some something here that we can investigate and I do do you know Dan when you're talking here and I absolutely I mean transed by this painting I've never seen I've never been to Russia so I've never seen this this painting in in person uh even though R brunt is is is amazing in in his uh pictures of biblical scenes right and and how you you look uh from a uh uh artistic critique perspective right the light as is shining and it it brings the the three main characters into you know into play you you see other characters in the background but uh those the three main ones too with the with the red robe as you mentioned and this prodigal son who you look at it and you you don't know anymore is is is is he old is he young what are the features it's completely taken away because the focus are the hands and from that perspective as you said then I I I can

t it and you you don't know anymore is is is is he old is he young what are the features it's completely taken away because the focus are the hands and from that perspective as you said then I I I can really see in my mind's eye Yung and R bran having some tea together talking about this how can somebody so ingeniously brought forth the the the pictorial uh depiction yeah representation of something that it speaks to all of us this Parable but you know brings into the Forefront not so much all of the other Concepts in the parable but that idea of not the children but the father father representing God and how God is really the integration of the male and female energies and and that to me is beautifully done and it it brings to my mind some of the concepts that we find for example in Joanna deangeles the integral human being right and and she mentions that as right from the beginning of that book um the idea that Jesus right who spoke of this Parable is representing the integral human beings he he brings to to his life on Earth 2,000 years ago more or less all of the nuances on his ego in his the spirit and the the material uh existence but he was able to be all in one without disrespecting or repressing anything but be in there's Integrity in what he did and in here I see the father as as again that integrity human being he's decisive right there's a decisiveness where he says son one you get to do son to you get he doesn't go like oh I don't know I I I I hate to to to uh betrayal uh youngest child for this or that no he decides and with those decisions he also comes back to those decisions and yet on the female side he welcomes he yields he is that uh he brings all the maternal love in all the archetypical Notions of the the mother archetype right in welcoming and even the the the figure of itself of the kneeling son is the one that I could probably put as a mother holding a baby right those are the things that I see what are your thoughts Dan what what else is out there for the

igure of itself of the kneeling son is the one that I could probably put as a mother holding a baby right those are the things that I see what are your thoughts Dan what what else is out there for the for the audience I am in complete agree agreement with you Marcia I think that you spoke beautifully about the feminine and the masculine and God being the you know the whole of it because it makes sense right because if everything was created by God which must have been right otherwise there would not be a god it would be a contradiction in terms then these different sides emanate from God and therefore um they are contained in God in many different ways I love that because I think I think you're also very on point with your description of the Christ which um sometimes I co call my older brother J because I think that he's he's I think I think we see that whenever we start to read the four gospels of the New Testament we see him more clearly if we have eyes to see um to you know to steal some of his own sayings that he really empowers others to do things but is also very caring right I am reminded here for instance of that one wonderful passage of the woman who's going to be stoned this the who was allegedly an adulterous woman and she was going to be stoned and eventually he intervenes and says who here among you have not Sinn cast a first stone and everybody vacates the premises right and then he turns around and she he tells her because as a teacher that he was he always asks questions right and he says woman who here has condemned you and she looks around and says no one because they all left right and then he says so neither do do I so he forgives her right so he Embraces her almost like the female side comes in and say I'm accepting I'm embracing you then he goes with all the love in the world go but sin no more right but it's also assertive just like you're saying but there's also the firus of saying yes you are forgiven but don't do this again right it's not going to

the love in the world go but sin no more right but it's also assertive just like you're saying but there's also the firus of saying yes you are forgiven but don't do this again right it's not going to benefit you so I think that we we see that constantly in this picture here um it's so beautiful because just like you said the lighting here is awesome so not only does it bring father the Father which is not portrayed as the stereotypical strong man but rather a man that is embracing and caring towards the sun in the hug that it would be not as compatible with the times right because if we think that our parents have trouble showing a you know affection to us right because of the culture of their time how he was 200 years ago 300 years ago right yes this is really something special um there's many different things in here the fact that we can't see what the son looks like could very well be a daughter right from where we're looking um and how the light really Shines on the father that almost as if the light came from the father right it's it's it's that so there's so many wonderful things that really leads us to that that that question of how am I taking all of this in and exercising in me both energies yes yes and and and maybe that's what I would like for us to to spend the next few minutes and I'm I don't know I'm going to remove the the photo so we can just not focus so much on rembrand but uh talking about perhaps those Concepts right what does it mean and you defined already Ana and animus as energies that we we both have in in our unconscious and uh how knowing that we all as me as a self-identified as a female um uh how do I reconcile by male energy within me um and and thrive in it right then how do we become that integral human being that sees all all that we have without uh having to necessarily start to perhaps uh repress the energies that culturally speaking or whatever is the the the external factor that is repressing us because culturally as a female I should be this you know

necessarily start to perhaps uh repress the energies that culturally speaking or whatever is the the the external factor that is repressing us because culturally as a female I should be this you know have this behavior and yet the energy within me may be very very different from that that is culturally accepted that's that's the question right and I think that's a beautiful place for us to really dig into because um I think we have to recognize and accept that these are normal manifestations of who we are ourselves and I think that is very difficult for people sometimes to to get right because we live in the world where we're not thinking about this and so we see people struggling and thinking that they should not Manu their softer feminine like energy if they're male or that they should not do the same the opposite right if they're female but these energies are with us they are us yes so how do we Embrace that right and I think that I mean we can we can go deep here and I even like the use of the term unconscious yes that Yung sometimes uses right because we're not obviously aware of it how can we have something in our elves that we are not aware of and I think that is obvious that there's many things at least in my life about myself that I'm not aware of because I haven't really had the time to kind of dig in and really think about this and some of them come from my experiences in this life but I have to say too Marcia that as a spiritist and a believer in reincarnation the unconscious then becomes a wider box because in it I also place po potential um experiences that I've had in previous lives that may carry themselves with me what certainly do right I Try by using the word May and so so that becomes a whole different thing right yeah but but but still there so I have several Concepts here so just to to to get us in the same plain field right number one you talked about uh conscious unconscious we we may talk about self right as as joanah d'angeles brings self

have several Concepts here so just to to to get us in the same plain field right number one you talked about uh conscious unconscious we we may talk about self right as as joanah d'angeles brings self with a capital S and Yung also brings that idea of self as the spirit that inhabits this body so uh the center of our conscious our ego the center of our unconscious is our self and how we should align those two because both of us both of them sorry are part of who we are right and in many in in in many sources in the literature today we can find the idea that we have to eliminate we have to kill the ego and no you don't see that in anything from Jung or Jah d' Angeles for example on the contrary is is really accepting all the nuances of the pallet of who we are the different colors the different textures of who we are this is the alignment of a whole versus parts that we can see in now a very myopic Viewpoint of who we are and and and so that's one concept but the other concept that you brought forth here is uh when when we talk about uh um understanding who we are and and I just you know think in terms of Freud and and Jung how they were once upon a time great collaborators and they you know they moved apart when Yung brings the whole idea of unconscious and not only just unconscious but the personal unconscious and the collective unconscious and you're like whoa what are we talking about here and then comes in like wait a minute we have a third layer of that discussion which is in the sense of reincarnation as a spiritist right this is a spiritual discussion here in that sense not only we we bring our personal conscious of this Incarnation and our Collective unconscious of this generation but we have the entire archetypical Heritage this all this that we bring for when perhaps we were uh 2,000 years ago those who betrayed the this is a parable of course the the father by saying father give my inheritance I want to to move away and I want to use all the fruits of your labor

we were uh 2,000 years ago those who betrayed the this is a parable of course the the father by saying father give my inheritance I want to to move away and I want to use all the fruits of your labor uh before you even die and there's so so many meanings into that request right Dad but so back to what I was saying we have a a very material um definition right of who we are in terms of the the anima and the Animas we have that concept of we are more than our ego we also have that person and uh Collective unconscious and then we have that layers in layers of earlier lifetimes that we bring with us and the conflict perhaps that all of those come to us so it brings back to what we were saying earlier so what does it mean to be perhaps this father-like figure that Embraces the feminine and the masculine but also Embraces all in between who we are yeah as the kneeling son go ahead oh so good so many good things here okay I feel like I got protect myself from jumping in because you know one of the things that I love about what you're saying Marcia is that once we hold on or accept or welcome the concept of reincarnation into our thinking model then it becomes easier at least for me to understand why why we would have those other energies within ourselves it would be interesting to understand why is it that as a man I might have Ana which is right the female unconscious energy because I might have I for sure did have had previous incarnations in which I had lived experiences as a woman so I carry with me these experiences and just like you said experiences of past generations and civilizations and so forth and so that unconscious becomes that bigger box because it it's not just about the experiences in this lifetime but also in many different lifetimes and and here's where I think gets really tricky in a good way I think a lot of it and I love that you touched upon that is about self-acceptance yes because many of us want to deny that side or deny those experiences or those

ink gets really tricky in a good way I think a lot of it and I love that you touched upon that is about self-acceptance yes because many of us want to deny that side or deny those experiences or those feelings or those even memories or what have you but we cannot be whole if we don't Embrace that we cannot lead with our whole self if our self is not whole so it's not about I think this is so important it's not about denying who we are or aspects of ourselves but embracing them right it's not denying the ego it's integrating it yes accepting it so that the self can be that there there can be a full individualization right individuation in general and I'm kind of reminded of of Paul the Apostle of us who Christian right when he transformed himself he did not say let's forget about Saul who I was before he never said that he said oh I'm Gonna Change directions but that is going to make me move forward because what I've done in the past wasn't now what I want to do in the future so I'm going to use that as fuel so but he never said no I wasn't that guy right he just embraced that and I think that sometimes we're so busy trying to not be something yeah that we forget that the important thing is to be something better and for that we have to accept ourselves and the situations that we're in and this is when I stopped talking because I know I'm talking a lot no you're good the refin piece is a really beautiful addition to the obviously psychological conversations and the enemas and enema because it also brings us a different perspective that sometimes we forget and I think that is we are Works in progress yes yes what you see today is the result of many incarnations before you but it is not the final product and I think that we lose a little bit of that sometimes in our world that is so um immediatists so demanding in many different ways about the here and now and the physical and that what you can tou touch and grasp but the truth is I am learning by making mistakes and having different

mmediatists so demanding in many different ways about the here and now and the physical and that what you can tou touch and grasp but the truth is I am learning by making mistakes and having different experiences so tomorrow I'm going to be a better human being and that means so will you and so where is my acceptance of self and where is my acceptance of others and isn't that acceptance for instance lacking in that older brother in the parable correct right so we can see that just being close to your home and your farm and your values like the second brother was for instance but not having that acceptance of others or self still don't it still still doesn't get you to where you want to be yeah I I I think we we we don't get ourselves right and the minute we formulate that what is in the box right what's acceptable and what's not we we come from an egoic uh perspective which is I only see what is very material and crystallized if you will in today's experience I don't remember I don't look I'm not curious I'm not learning I'm not open to anything outside of that box and and I think this this discussion here then if I may is one that really brings that note of let us all be aware that we are more than what we seem but this is really an invitation to for all of us to be more yielding and forceful in our decisions in how we live our lives and how we welcome back those potentially that seemingly betrayed us by leaving and those who seemingly betrayed us by staying right the the essence here is acceptance is is is embracing and I think that is the a key lesson that we take away from any Parable we can ask ourselves and I love asking this question of myself is who are we in this Parable truth is we are both the prodigal s that has left and that has that is struggling to find ourselves and accept ourselves and understand that some of our choices in the past may not be the happiest and at the same time because we can contain multitudes right um the poet the poet Walt Whitman says that who am I do I

elves and understand that some of our choices in the past may not be the happiest and at the same time because we can contain multitudes right um the poet the poet Walt Whitman says that who am I do I contradict myself very well then I contradict myself I contain multitudes I like that um we can be that at the same time we can also be the other brother who's not accepting of others neither is a good place to be we have to accept ourselves and accept others and I think we also have to think about how do we become the father in the parable yes because we also have the possibility eventually to welcome back those who have left us right even though we might not have done that they might have chosen for that and to also go out before before we don't have to wait for them to come back we can meet them in the way back and what such po such poetry in that I think yeah but abolutely how how are we accepting ourselves and who we are and how are we accepting others and in the accepting yourselves peace I think that it's a tough conversation because I oftentimes ask myself when I think about this Parable am I leaning too hard to the masculine in my life am I leaning too hard to the feminine do I need to correct how do I bring that balanced perspective that is both you know assertiveness and firmness but also conscientiousness and encompassing acceptance and I say that yes and I say let's just be authentic and in our authenticity it just means let's be vulnerable let's be open to understand that we bring a lifetime a multitude of lifetimes within ourselves and let's just be open to to to Really uh be very curious about why am I feeling this way and is it okay let us let us just be welcome to all that we are but we are approaching the end Dan and I wanted to ask you if you don't mind because uh we have known each other for for many many years now and I love many Marcia let just absolutely and um I'd love to to hear of a recent relatively recent Endeavor in that the foundation of the spiritist

e have known each other for for many many years now and I love many Marcia let just absolutely and um I'd love to to hear of a recent relatively recent Endeavor in that the foundation of the spiritist Institute can you tell the audience what is it and what your goals and what are you doing and how can perhaps we connect with you or help with you thank you so very much for the space I would love to do that so um a couple of years ago let's not say how many um we started this effort that we call the spiritist Institute with some friends and the idea of the spiritist Institute is simple is to advance the ideas and concept of spiritism in the English-speaking world we know that we have so many wonderful materials in Portuguese we have so many wonderful books and materials even in Spanish but in English we don't have as much yet so we asked ourselves how could we lend a hand to advancing spiritism in English right without replicating efforts that already exist because we have so many wonderful institutions like the international spiritist Council the United States spiritist Federation the British Union of spirit societies the Irish Federation there so the Canadian Council spiritist Council there's so many different groups that are really working with spiritist groups to build that movement in different countries and we figured that maybe we can try to lend a hand in areas that perhaps are not currently being tackled or not priorities for those people so what we're really trying to do is build access to spiritism for individuals what does that mean to kind of help make a bridge so that they can find the spiritist group or they can find the Federation so can find our books and so forth and so we've been working you know a little bit at a time because as you know all spirit is work is a labor of love volunteer work on trying to um reach those people that may not otherwise have known about spiritism or who perhaps are looking for a resource but are away from a spiritist group what does that mean then so what

work on trying to um reach those people that may not otherwise have known about spiritism or who perhaps are looking for a resource but are away from a spiritist group what does that mean then so what exactly are you actually trying to do well one of the efforts that we continue to work on for instance of building access of connecting people to to people in spiritist groups is a simple website that we call spiritist groups.org it is a directory of all englishspeaking spiritist groups in the world so that if you want to find a spiritist group that has activities in English you can go there find Way by country and find a number of different groups they're close to you there's maps you can leave reviews so it's a simple way because sometimes that we hear from people do you know of a spiritist group you know and near so and so it comes from like text messages or so forth so we want to make that easy another effort that we're doing is um the same thing with books so we also have one creatively named spiritist books.org where we try to get all the books from different Publishers and just place them in one website you won't be able to buy a book there but you find links to the individual Publishers where you can get those books because so that so that the user the individual person can find a list of everything that we have available in English and then we're also working a couple more things I can share with you um we're working on putting together a spiritist day of service of community volunteering so that we can all volunteer across the world in the same day to show that spiritists are committed to helping our society and also to have fun and meet new people um and we're also we also have a podcast spiritus conversations that's about getting foundational things out there so we have a couple of different efforts we are also working on donating spiritist books to public libraries here in the United States so that people can have access it because if they don't know it exists then how

ouple of different efforts we are also working on donating spiritist books to public libraries here in the United States so that people can have access it because if they don't know it exists then how can they learn about it so we're doing a couple of things and if people want to help we would love their help spiritist institute.org or any of those websites thank you for the space and it's lovely IDE such as this one about psychology and spiritism are out there for those who who want to have access to that kind of thinking yeah absolutely so with that I think we are indeed at time Dan and I just want to say thank you thank you for joining me in this discussion um we both love the uh parable of the prodical son uh it seems that we both fell in love with r Bron's rendition in the the painting The Return of the prodical S and we are both very much in tune with the teachings by Gustaf uh Jung and uh with that I just say I hope to see you next time next week thanks everyone I appreciate you bye-bye