Ep 150 - The River of Self: Navigating the Journey of Inner Growth

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion. Here I am. My name is Marcia and with me is Hafendi. Hi Rafael. How are you doing? >> Hi Maria. I'm very good better now with you. >> So good to have you with us. Just so you know, we those are weekly episodes that is published uh on Fridays and uh together in this uh what I hope to be a light-hearted conversation we're here to explore this intersection right the where spirituality and psychology meet and as a result we get a little bit uh u more wise I guess uh in in questions. But anyways, uh for all of us who is here with us today, just know that the I propose Rafael that we explore the depths of our personal growth. So as we know this very individual journey right that each one of us will go through and it's a journey of spiritual evolution spiritual growth and of course a topic that Joanna the Angels brings front and center in just about every every book that she has written which is the transformative power of self-awareness and Joanna explores this metaphor for of human existence, right? Yours and mine, all of us. It she she speaks of it as a river that flows toward an inevitable destination. And as a river, we can all imagine in our mind's eye this water flowing, right? We face obstacles but we also experience growth and uh ultimately we all reach new levels of understanding and actual connection with ourselves. Hence the the power of self-awareness but also um connection with the world at large. So Rafael it is so so good. I mentioned to you already but it's good to be able to hear from you and your insights on this journey of self-discovery and yes a journey plentiful of challenges each one of us has has a different type of challenges right Raphael but all of us are going through something that is painful I would say that is difficult that is challenging and we We we need to be there knowing being aware that we're all going through similar paths. So can us can we Rafael

hrough something that is painful I would say that is difficult that is challenging and we We we need to be there knowing being aware that we're all going through similar paths. So can us can we Rafael maybe unpack that uh meaning specifically of what makes up the majority of our struggles, right? Um and on a on a psychological perspective can be understanding that um repressed side of ourselves, our shadow and how we need to embrace that. But also to understand that whatever we do, we come out like the river that Joanna the Angels references to in in a better version of ourselves, which I would call a more authentic version, a more conscious versions. So let's maybe start by talking to uh the paradox that uh health and well-being is against illness or sickness. Can you talk a little bit about it? >> Yeah. [clears throat] So again very nice to be here Marcia and um hello everyone again. So this is a very important text from Janna and I think it's very useful for um the days we are going through uh which are not being easy to anyone. So I think uh contrary to most of us at some point of our lives we think that life is just um to enjoy >> and that the whole life is going to be a bliss and you're always going to be um happy things happening. So but then you know you are a child everything is okay you become a teenager most of us are okay then you become adult and more mature and and problems start to happen. So several types of problems it could be economic problems social problem and physical uh problems mental issues too. So the point of life is those challenges um are critical or crucial for our development for our evolution. >> So if you don't have challenges will never grow. So that's the big point and one of the things that Joanna mentioned and I think it's very important to bring here to this conversation is the concept of health. >> Yeah. Because you know many people think that being healthy is being uh is the absence of sickness. But then we know this is not true. There

ring here to this conversation is the concept of health. >> Yeah. Because you know many people think that being healthy is being uh is the absence of sickness. But then we know this is not true. There are so many people that are nearly dying but [clears throat] they are very happy. They're [snorts] very healthy. >> So how can this be? And that's the paradox because we as human beings incarnated in this world, we tend to believe we are our bodies. >> Wow. >> But in fact, we are not. So many diseases, we're talking about disease, but that could apply to any problem. But many of diseases uh that affect us are [clears throat] actually our true healing. That's how we're going to be. >> And this is hard, right? Let's let's just stop everyone because Raphael is saying disease is is really what makes us healthy and tell us more Raphael please. >> Yes, [laughter] disease is what make us healthy. So that's really weird. Many people may be what this guy talking about. [clears throat] So that's the truth because you know what the disease does is actually healing your spirit. So for many many existences for centuries we've been going through uh doing some bad mistakes and as you know everything that goes against the divine laws >> uh against our consciousness u of being creatures created from God. >> Everything that goes against it is going to be somehow uh stored in our spirit. And this going to be somehow hurting us for a long time until a point where it hurts so bad that you you want to have it gone. You want to, you know, fix this problem. And the only way to fix it when you come back to your body, a a new body, come back to this earth life and then you somehow manifest those soul problems in your body. And in that case is imagine like your spirit is just cleaning by throwing all these things to your body that's gonna die anyways. Believe it or not we all going to die. The body is going to die but not us as our essence as spirits. [clears throat] So by doing that to the body which is

hings to your body that's gonna die anyways. Believe it or not we all going to die. The body is going to die but not us as our essence as spirits. [clears throat] So by doing that to the body which is going to die anyways. You're gonna just you're just cleaning or cleansing or healing your spirit. Yeah. And and I I'm I'm wondering um if I may, right? Um when you talk about we are here looking for a blissful life, right? What would that mean? A life and that's what we want for our children. For example, that's what we want for ourselves. But most important when we become parents, we we want that's right. That's the most common desire for a parent to have this baby and that becomes an adult to have a happy life. And uh Joseph Campbell uh is known for his phrase, right? Follow your bliss. And uh and it's just very interesting because bliss in this case at least as h how I understand it Rafael it's not necessarily a life that is devoid of work of challenges of um opportunities for growth right but it's a fulfilled life and uh and I think uh it is so important for us to to then understand that uh um underneath this sense of fulfillment um then there's a question of what is the meaning of life right why are we even here uh as immortal spirits that we are if there is no uh plan or objective I'm speaking I'm a project manager I think you know that in my professional life And uh and the first thing we do as we're creating the project is why do we need this project? Right? What is the problem that we're trying to solve? And only once we meet the objectives of that we say it was a successful project. In our case, uh, the successful life would be, did we meet meet, did we fulfill our quote unquote, I'm doing air quotes here, quote unquote, um, uh, mission that we came here for, right? Which goes back to what you're saying in terms of the paradox of sometimes being sick is what's going to lead us to health. >> Yeah. So I think we very often confuse the word joy and happiness. They're very

goes back to what you're saying in terms of the paradox of sometimes being sick is what's going to lead us to health. >> Yeah. So I think we very often confuse the word joy and happiness. They're very different. Joy is an emotion. Happiness is a feeling. So those are two different things. So happen um emo um sorry joy it's going to happen very often our lives. Some people you know you can just be walking around and talking making you know someone tells you a joke and they laugh. So you're h you're you say you're happy but actually you're joyful. It's different. >> So what I mean by you know when you think that our life is going to be pure ble uh blaze or pure joy it's just we think that no challenge are going to happen but when now every most people including um uh the one you mentioned uh thinks about happiness and in in the true way. You can have your challenges, you can have your problems, um all this you know bad and and um situations that happens in our lives but you can be happy. >> You may not be joyful at that time but deep down you're happy your consciousness is happy. So this is different. It's even hard to explain because you're talking about feelings which are very abstract. >> Yes. >> Right. So >> I don't want you guys to get me wrong in a sense that we need to live this life to suffer. That's not the point. We are not here to suffer. >> You're here to learn how to find peace and happiness. But we are looking for tranquility and joy, >> which are different. >> Yeah. And I and I would just uh pause for just a minute because you you mentioned the difference between an emotion and a feeling. And to me it would be maybe good for us to to also unpack that because emotional response an emotion is always a response to an external event, right? And interesting enough it is uh we share right it's a very universal response and there are many studies about it where uh if I was born I don't know from a uh aborigy I don't know even if it's the best word to say but uh a a native tribe in a secluded uh

ery universal response and there are many studies about it where uh if I was born I don't know from a uh aborigy I don't know even if it's the best word to say but uh a a native tribe in a secluded uh island and uh the most cosmopolitan of the cities and uh it doesn't matter. My emotional response of laughter, of tears, of sadness, etc., etc., it's the same. It's very universal, including how facially we respond to to to those uh those events, those external events. And they're there for a reason, right? Many of them are um response mechanism to either protect us, right? And the protection can be in the what is it the fight flight or freeze uh events. So the the the fight would be uh anger where we are we adrenaline flows into our body and we're ready to fight there that is that anger the emotion leads to a certain level behavior to get rid of to to safeguard ourselves where the flight which is fear right uh and uh in the animal kingdom for example you see those different strategies from events, right? Uh you in some cases you have to flee to save yourselves. Uh and finally uh freeze which is also we could say the sadness that may lead to uh in a pathological uh aspect to depression, right? And and and and that freeze, right? Where you stop. Some animals also do that as as defense mechanism of pretend that you're dying anyways from outside and a response that is hormonal as well as that emotional um aspect of our lives. But when we talk about the feelings that you mentioned now we're talking about what do I have or emote from within to those events, right? Um, and I think at that point, you know, you can be happy in the midst of, let's say, I don't know, chaos, uh, war zones or or a a life of a very, you know, socioeconomical challenges. And yet, we have that sense of happiness because it's from within. it does not necessarily have to to match the the outside external and I think it's as important as a as a pause uh because it tells us perhaps uh Rafael that when when we saying I want my bliss

ithin. it does not necessarily have to to match the the outside external and I think it's as important as a as a pause uh because it tells us perhaps uh Rafael that when when we saying I want my bliss I want to follow my bliss or what but if I am not fulfilled say back to that sense of meaning and fulfillment then I may find emptiness right and Joanna talks a lot about uh those existential emptiness. On one hand, she also speaks of guilt, which goes back to what you were saying earlier about a a long lifetime with many existence where perhaps there's so many failures or missteps or uh errors that we go through that accumulate in our sense of guilt to a lot of pain. So in the construct of a very long life that we all have, it's important for us to to understand what do we need to meet whatever it is that we're carrying our burden and that may be different I think different eight plus billion ways to be different because all of us are very unique right but what is it that you're carrying what are the pain points points that uh you're caring with you that no matter how well everything else outside is you're not happy right you may be joyful as you mentioned but you're not happy so maybe we can talk a little bit about that if you want to how can we explore that sense of comfort that sense of >> belonging and potentially happiness Yes. >> So, you know, I've been thinking about this question for many, I would say, years now. >> Um, how is that possible? And you see someone apparently having everything and then they have this sense of emptiness emptiness >> and and depression and all of these things. So, one thing that you know I we I came to a conclusion is that what we need is to be useful. we need to feel and to realize we're useful. So, and that's the biggest point when you become to help others. I mean, you understand you need to help others. So, you um you are here to help. That's the purpose of our lives, help others because in that sense, you're helping yourself. But when

e to help others. I mean, you understand you need to help others. So, you um you are here to help. That's the purpose of our lives, help others because in that sense, you're helping yourself. But when you realize that you have this sense of usefulness and that's what makes this you know it fill you up completely something is is now changing and that's why Chico Xavier usually say uh used to I think also Devaldo mentioned that many times that if you're depressed the only way to cure it is to work to others in a sense that you're helping others. So because somehow there is an explanation maybe a physical explanation but this feeling of being useful it's what fulfill you completely. So I think it's easy as that but at the same time it's something very hard to do and I'm not saying here you don't need medications you don't need things to help but it's important to mention that what this medications do if you're depressed for example >> and imagine yourself in the middle of a lake and what the medication does is just throwing you >> um that a device I forgot her name now I blank out the device to make you float. It's like the floater. So, it's just give you the floater. >> Yeah. >> But it's not going to pull you out of the water. >> That's an interesting analogy. I I I really like it. Yeah. >> Right. So, what the medication does is not they they they don't let you drown. >> They don't let you sink, >> but it's not going to take you out of the lake, out of the water. So, you need to have something. And this something is the desire >> um uh willing to move >> and that's what most people most of us are actually sleeping spiritually we are not moving and how can we possibly move by helping others. So it's see if you think the the commandment the most important commandment love God above all the things but love your neighbor as you love yourself >> that's it >> you don't need to do anything else >> I love it and and and she uh Joanna uh spends a lot of time with the difference

d above all the things but love your neighbor as you love yourself >> that's it >> you don't need to do anything else >> I love it and and and she uh Joanna uh spends a lot of time with the difference between or the different the scale the levels of service right and if you think in terms of share Charity, charity, we can call it uh love in action, right? Yes. When you're serving, you are expressing love and compassion for others. And then she goes into at a highest level is the sense of altruism where you're doing for the others not out of generosity but you're doing for others out of uh taking away from you for your own comfort if you think about it to to help the other because deep inside of you you are moved that uh there's that uh philosophical term that African nations do the ubuntu right I can only be happy if you're happy right but I am sad if you're sad so that's the sense I am because you are [snorts] and and and that deeper uh uh connection uh you know person by person and collectively speaking uh at some point we'll all be at that level not everybody is but there is um there are many studies about altruism that is quite interesting but I wanted to if you don't mind let me go back u couple let's rewind today because you talked about uh the the the the notion of existential emptiness or the experience of feeling empty regardless of a very full life. Right? I may I may get up in the morning and go go go go go go and I go to work and I do this and I and I I fill my my schedule my agenda with so many things yet there is that existential emptiness and uh uh when Joanna writes about it she says it is a haunting inner void right it's something that's haunting in you that that void I don't know what it is but ah I don't know there is a hole inside of me and she also say it can also be the loss of meaning so there we go back again with the idea of fulfillment and meaningful life but beyond that and I think it's important to bring here to us Raphael is the fact that she says please do know she didn't

ng so there we go back again with the idea of fulfillment and meaningful life but beyond that and I think it's important to bring here to us Raphael is the fact that she says please do know she didn't say that this is me saying but Please do know that uh those um feelings of existential emptiness is not a sign of failure or even of of a sign of illness. Right? She says and I think it's beautiful. That's why I'm bringing up to us here. She says that the experience of existential emptiness, it is a spiritual symptom of our soul's disconnection of our divine essence. which goes back to what you're saying that the sense of uh if we don't um uh fit or follow or obedient to the divine laws we are creating waves if you will and uh that leads us to to um moments of difficulties right and I just think that maybe we can talk about what causes it and How do we uh lessen the difficulty? What do you think? >> Yeah, I think the the the the problem is um you know we all when we wake up spiritually we begin a huge battle against our old selves. >> Yeah. >> So that's the biggest challenge. You begin to understand that for somehow for uh many centuries you've been doing wrong things. But at that time you begin to realize that okay for somehow you're tired you're tired of doing wrong things. >> Yeah. >> You are tired of this all this I would say I like to call them like world callings >> because the world is calling you but in a bad way. >> So you begin to get you know all your friends you begin to be weird to all your friends. So why you're talking about let's go to party. Let's party. Let's go to that place. Let's go that. Let's drink. And then you begin to feel like out something is wrong. And if you do something bad or you talk bad about someone or you do something that it goes against your consciousness, you begin to feel sad because what am I doing? >> So all of these things, it's a big battle. >> A big battle. But this is a good sign because you finally woke up. Finally woke up. So that's what

ness, you begin to feel sad because what am I doing? >> So all of these things, it's a big battle. >> A big battle. But this is a good sign because you finally woke up. Finally woke up. So that's what >> it doesn't feel right but it's eB absolutely the first step to to real growth right >> yeah that's how you begin to get to know yourself >> right and change you have to change the way you know you cannot change the past but you can do a better future can make a better future and how you make a better future acting now in the present >> and [clears throat] that's how you know this battle caused lots of problems to us because for many uh for many times we we believe okay uh we are failures I mean I just failed this so what's what's wrong with me I know this is wrong and I'm doing it again but you have to think that you've been doing that for so many centuries >> yes >> and now you're finally trying to get it fixed to get it better so it's a huge improvement >> yes >> so you cannot blame yourself because when you blame yourself, you kind of go backwards. You walk backwards and that's not what you know God or Jesus or your guardian angel, it's not what they want for you. So when you realize, okay, I did it wrong, but as Jesus said, I'm not going to look back. Just look ahead. Get my cross, put on my shoulder, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Forward. >> Yeah. I love it. Yeah. understand that. >> So you kind of understand what Jesus mentioned about, you know, this um following him. It's actually lighter than we think. >> Yeah. The burden is much lighter than we >> anticipate, right? But uh I I think it's uh it's also interesting because uh if you think about it, right? uh we we mention um the reason for for that is that you're disconnecting and what does it mean to be disconnected and uh in my opinion love to hear from you uh that disconnection right with our spiritual uh our divine our sacred within uh just simply means that we start to become um so identified with our ego, our material aspects of

love to hear from you uh that disconnection right with our spiritual uh our divine our sacred within uh just simply means that we start to become um so identified with our ego, our material aspects of our existence that uh uh that call like you mentioned that call to go out drinking not that is bad but it's just like is it necessary or um the other side of it or other example is a life that you are constantly um living outwardly instead of inwardly. Meaning that uh for me to be considered successful, right? And this is it plagues I would say 99.9% of of our population today. This is there's no statist my saying here. We are plagued by the need to you know to be validated to and we seek those validation how well by possessions or by titles or even education which is a noble thing but maybe I don't educate myself because I'm doing something but because I want the respect. So it's always external validation. >> Exactly. Once I was in an interview and a guy asked me, "What is su success?" >> Yes. >> You >> um he was he's like um entpreneur. So he you know he's an MD I mean a physician but also this guy >> and he was expecting me to say well success is you have everything you want. You you have your titles, you have money, you have comfort, big house. And I said, "No, success to me is just look at Jesus." So he was crucified. He has he had no even a single clothes to wear. >> He had no place to be buried. >> He had nothing but at the same time he had everything which means spiritual. So success is when you understand yourself, you get to know yourself and you finally begin to follow him. So this is not what people usually want to hear. And and it's it's funny how [clears throat] you know this thing about the world calling you. I was talking to um a friend in my um my work and um and he and he asked me, "So what do you think is going to happen in a thousand years?" I said, "Well, in a thousand years, I think we're going to be way, way better. Earth is going to be much better. So, there's not going to be

what do you think is going to happen in a thousand years?" I said, "Well, in a thousand years, I think we're going to be way, way better. Earth is going to be much better. So, there's not going to be violence. There's not going to be, you know, sadness or crimes. It's not going to even have alcoholic beverages." And then he said, "No, no, no. I don't want to be in this earth." So, [laughter] so that's how most people still think because for them happiness is what the world brings you. The pleasures that the world bring to you. But one day the same guy is going to wake up and realize that okay this is not what me as a spirit is looking for. So, and that's when everything changes and this battle I just mentioned begins and eventually you're going to win. So, there's no other way. You're going to win. The point is when how long it's going to take. >> Yeah, >> that's it. >> Because we have like eternity to win. >> Yeah. >> I think it's quite long time if you think >> it is quite eternity is quite a long time, right? >> But that that idea of immortality scares me a little bit because if uh if you're uh in a that vicious cycle of just work and many of us are I have to to to to really be you know respectful of our journeys work so hard and and and uh and we're just doing so much but No matter how much we accomplish, if it is based on those external validations, it it's it it doesn't it doesn't fulfill you. I always remember um Rafael um talking to my dad, this is many years ago, and I said, "Oh, dad, my dream is blah blah designer car." and he looked at me and he said, "Okay, what you going to give up to get to that super expensive car?" And I was I was a teenager at the time. So I said, "Oh, this and that." And he said, "Do you realize that the car will be new to you uh in a source of pleasure for maybe three months? by then the the the smell of of you know brand new leather and this and that will be gone. Your car even may go through a crash or whatever and all that you gave up to get

sure for maybe three months? by then the the the smell of of you know brand new leather and this and that will be gone. Your car even may go through a crash or whatever and all that you gave up to get that one goal is God. >> Yeah. >> So think about it. What is it we want? Because it's our lives and we we have our free will, right? Um but I want to tell you do you mind if I pivot to a different topic? Oh, absolutely. >> Within the same topic, right, which is the idea of how to how to embrace our lives even when it means that we're going to have uh many obstacles. And uh and one of the things that if I go back to Joanna D'Angelo, she she really recommends Rafale the idea or she mentions the idea that uh uh healing process because you mentioned the paradox between sickness and and health, right? And she says the healing process really begins with that selfawareness, self-nowledge. Um and how you know if we're to ask the Joanna but how do I do this and she's very free to to give those tips to us which is selfanalysis uh she always recommends meditation or even reflections on our daily experiences right at the end of the day following St. Augustine uh what did I do? Did I do good? Did I do not do good? What did I miss doing? What did I neglect doing? That inventory of our day on a daily basis. But uh what she says by doing this uh it's an easy and quite evidently based on your day, right? We're not talking about you need to lock yourself in a monastery and and pray in silence for uh months and years, not speaking to anyone so you can get to it. No, she says, "No, go over that self analysis in your day today." Because by doing this we start to peel away to unveil those um uh unconscious content perhaps that uh is part of our daytoday life but that is moving us for it is separating us from being our authentic self. Right? So those many doses or daily doses of uh consciousness is what we need to at the end have that sense of fulfillment and a meaningful life. >> Yeah. The problem Marcia is that um for

entic self. Right? So those many doses or daily doses of uh consciousness is what we need to at the end have that sense of fulfillment and a meaningful life. >> Yeah. The problem Marcia is that um for many people >> it seems very easy but it doesn't bring us an instant pleasure of doing it. We are in a mode now that we want to have instant pleasure for everything. >> Yeah. That instant gratification, right? I want it and I want it now and I want it to be this intense. >> And when you begin to look at yourself like St. Augustine says, every night you look about through your day, this is somehow gets you, it's very challenging because you're not going to always see good things. you're actually gonna focus on the bad things you did to fix them. >> This does not bring pleasure. >> So what happens? What is the divine solution for that in one word? Pain. >> So that's it. >> So that's why people are afraid of pain. But pain actually is your biggest friend because it's the pain who is going to bring you to life again and make you understand because you can you agree with me that when you are in pain we become more like fragile >> and more susceptible to learning things obviously there is the period of you know not acceptance but then you begin okay so that's my life how can I change it pain is changing you and you cannot you don't need to have pain to do that but again we don't do everything Jonah said or actually we don't do anything and when you do you do one night and said okay this is boring where you begin you go to the bed I did that once I tried that I mean and the beginning when I was doing that I was you know >> everything I turn off the light and I was about to sleep and think about my day and I woke up the next day so you don't think about it So you need to be prepared for that. And I even heard like a a very famous uh Brazilian artist saying I don't like to meditate because it brings me anxiety >> just because I need to be 10 15 minutes doing nothing. I'm anxious because I

. And I even heard like a a very famous uh Brazilian artist saying I don't like to meditate because it brings me anxiety >> just because I need to be 10 15 minutes doing nothing. I'm anxious because I have so many things to do. So that person didn't understand the purpose >> of meditation. So what happens? That person is like working nonstop, non-stop. And you want to make money. You want to make money. So what's going to change? You're going to have time to look back in your day. At night, you're super tired. You're going to sleep three, four hours per night, and you're again up next day. So what God does? Give you a problem, simple problem, a a physical issue, a disease. And then you have you're forced to stop and think about yourself. >> Yeah. Because uh that that pain that illness whatever that may be that stops you from the the that uh um you know just >> that loop. >> Yeah. The loop or Yeah. going going nowhere very fast. You're running or running but you're in this wheel right that it leads you nowhere just effort uh spent. Um but what I what I find it uh interesting here is that the pain will dull your senses for everything else. Right? So you you you you now have to look at the pain but with the exercise to change your perspective uh outward looking to inward looking then you start to pay attention to the things that you needed to pay attention quite a long time ago and we we we don't so I it's important uh on a different note I I also think you said this is the solution pain. Uh the other alternative is love, right? So you started by saying that let's let's be of service. Let's love however we know how to the other. And uh one of the things that I would say to everyone here is uh you're not going to like me for saying that Jav, but I'm going to say it because it is something that Joanna the Angels actually wrote about it, which is this reminder that happiness is a conscious decision, not an external circumstance. Right? So uh she has a uh her book uh a happy life

omething that Joanna the Angels actually wrote about it, which is this reminder that happiness is a conscious decision, not an external circumstance. Right? So uh she has a uh her book uh a happy life right uh which is a little tiny book but it with messages that uh makes us think about it what is that uh I need to be happy today but uh she also reminds us that she has two books I don't know if you read them um uh full life and empty lives and they came almost to me they're like bookends right? They're the two aspect of the same uh problem which is life on earth. this very material life that we all live. But um she talks in in in in that is that uh to overcome in her book empty lives right to overcome emptiness we must choose what if it's not empty it is meaningful right it's a full life so she said choose meaning daily in every aspect of your life including the small acts. Right? So, um just for for any of you that have not read those books by Jordan D'Angelus, uh three areas that she really says would be good uh great tips I would say. Uh number one is gratitude practices, right? And uh many people uh that I know are doing gratitude journal and they say wow it's like night and day how much u uh fulfilled they are since they started to pay attention and be grateful for all aspects of their lives. Um the other tip Rafael is the creating opportunities for creative expression and she's really talking and this is something that Kustav talks a lot about it right how the artistic expression or right of uh it can be writing can be music can be anything is really important. Our imagination is an area that will make us uh feel better. And the other one is mindfulness, right? Be in the moment. So I I wanted to say what are your thoughts from this decision to be happy, to be present, to be grateful, to be creative. >> Well, so I can tell a little story about me if you >> Yes. [laughter] um you know I'm a a professor here at Harvard one of the best universities in the world so when I came

rateful, to be creative. >> Well, so I can tell a little story about me if you >> Yes. [laughter] um you know I'm a a professor here at Harvard one of the best universities in the world so when I came here I was I have the I had this ego so I for many years I was just thinking okay I'm very good so otherwise I wouldn't be here >> and that began began to grow in me >> in a way that I was okay so you know life didn't actually matter much I was just focused on my professional career. >> And in 2020, in the middle of, you know, the pandemics, [clears throat] >> I did one day a checkup and a blood test and I found I had a blood cancer. >> And um and the worst thing, this is not going to be curable. >> I have to live with this for the rest of my my life. And at that time, I was devastated. I had three young children. my wife and my work. How can in the middle of pandemic we are all isolated? How can I possibly be? Then I begin to think, okay, so this is a blood cancer that could be much worse than it actually is. So I may not be completely cured, but I can live with that. That's good. So another thing life why should I be so focused on my ego in thinking about my job and the way I am as a simple thing like that can kill me instantly at any time. Why? So I have my kids my family here. Why do I need to focus so much on published papers? >> Yeah. and being famous as I have everything right in front of my eyes be right before my eyes which is my triplets my wife so and I have also many other aspects of my body that are working perfectly so why not to be thankful for that and then you know the disease I have is called polyymia vera and I I I like this name very much because I call it Mrs. Vera. So, Mrs. Vera is actually helping me a lot a lot and to get to know myself to find my limits and sometimes when I begin so for some reason things are getting like spinning off in my head. So then it reminds me, hey, pay attention, >> Mrs. Vera. >> Vera. >> Yes. >> So, um, and that's, you know, how I

etimes when I begin so for some reason things are getting like spinning off in my head. So then it reminds me, hey, pay attention, >> Mrs. Vera. >> Vera. >> Yes. >> So, um, and that's, you know, how I live. And I'm very grateful now to have Mrs. Vera in my life >> because she's actually curing me. She's healing me from the biggest issues that do not come from your body, but come from your soul. And it's actually made me see the world in a different perspective. and actually help others. So help others more than I was even thinking about that. And before to me like helping others would be giving money but that's not how it is. There is one thing that everybody has and doesn't cost anything which is time. So I began to dedicate my time to others, not only my family but at a spirited house where I work as a fraternal counselor or lecturer or I coordinate studies in the spiritism or any other thing you want to do. You may not do in the in the spiritism it doesn't matter. >> Yeah. >> But at work I begin to look at my the people who work with me as uh human beings in in the same boat on the same boat trying to evolve. So not looking and seeing them different than I am. So all of these things changed the way I am. So I could have changed by love. >> Yeah. >> But I was too I would say um stubborn. >> Yes, we all are. But yes, [laughter] >> Mrs. Vera came and yeah >> is wonderful and helping me in so many ways that I wouldn't be able to do without her. >> Yeah. And I smile and sorry I don't mean to be >> No, you should. That's the purpose. >> Well, but I smile because uh [clears throat] I have often said and and I don't know why, hail, but I have and I no longer do it by the way, but I have in the past whenever somebody came with the most catastrophic right and I said it's not cancer, right? Hold on. This is uh the the car. You you you you had a a delayed plane and now you're going to miss a day at a workshop in another country. It's a day that you're missing. Or uh if you your tires got uh

ld on. This is uh the the car. You you you you had a a delayed plane and now you're going to miss a day at a workshop in another country. It's a day that you're missing. Or uh if you your tires got uh you know, you got a flat tire and you're late. We we cat, you know, catastrophiized things that are actually nothing. They're little, right? And and I said that until the person that I was saying actually got cancer. And and to me, it's like you cannot use illness to to let people be aware. And then you said to yourself, this is Mrs. Vera, which is quite cute, Mrs. Vera. And Mrs. Verer is dulling the uh I'm using my own term here, all the allure, right, of Yes. I I work for one of the most prestigious um academic settings in the world and I have this opportunity and I'm here because I I worked hard. I studied hard. It's not easy, right? It's your own merit, etc., etc. But then it's this beautiful wakeup call to all that you needed is already there, right? >> All that you need is right there with you. And this is so beautiful to hear indeed. It is quite beautiful. So when you say pain is the the path to to wake up if you will to be more consciously aware um you speak authentically because you are there right you are living that. So I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. Any final words? Well, I think my final word is, you know, enjoy life. Even though life it's challenging, >> but you are here for a reason. >> Um, you are experience whatever you experience for a reason >> and this reason is always for uh the best. So just be uh grateful and appreciate everything and one day we all going to be able to understand what the meaning of life really is. >> So thank you again Marcia for for having me and thank you all. Of course, >> of course. And I have to say what an insightful conversation. Another one, Rafael. It's really uh amazing when we get together and you share such wisdom and perspective, right? perspectives on the journey of of uh overcoming

say what an insightful conversation. Another one, Rafael. It's really uh amazing when we get together and you share such wisdom and perspective, right? perspectives on the journey of of uh overcoming obstacles but also the journey of self-discovery and uh how life is really one that uh that meets that that metaphor that Joanna the Angels brought to us earlier, right? which is the metaphor life struggles as a river that flows toward the sea. No matter what, it will get to the sea. No matter how many uh you know curves and and and and all the things that happen, it will get to it. So it's important for all of us to be aware and to take this opportunity to embrace it to be grateful like you said and embrace all the challenges as learning opportunities and uh to to love to be loved and uh really be aware that in whatever you're doing you are the um conductor if you of this beautiful orchestra which is our spiritual evolution. But um want to just say thank you Rafael. Thank you everyone who's here with us and if this is the first time you are listening to our program our weekly talks are there all of them based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus and I really appreciate you being here. I also want to thank our sponsors, Mel Camo, the US Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, and Army Brazil. Thank you so much, Rafael. Until next time.