Ep 143 - Family: The First School of the Soul

Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of our podcast, Psychology and Spirituality, a bridge to a better life. A podcast series based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus. My name is Marciao and with me today is my dear friend, my colleague of many different projects, Yudi Castro. Hi Yudi, how you doing? >> I'm doing very well. Hello Marcia. Hello everybody who's watching us online. Hello everybody who's watching us live, who's watching us later, anywhere you are. Hello and good morning, good afternoon, good evening. >> Ah [clears throat] it's really a joy to to be back. Right. But today, Yudi, I propose that we reflect on something that really touches all of us independent of your gender, your age, or where you're born, where you live currently. But it is this topic um family, right? Family. And uh when I say family, I probably should uh further define it because it can be more than the family that you're born into or the family that you're building. It is perhaps within the family that some of our whatever that family definition may be, but it's there that we find our greatest uh emotional lessons. And it's it's this laboratory, if you will. So I I like to to bring to everyone that in her work, Jonah the Angels reminds us that family isn't just social structure. She calls it the the soul's primary classroom. So uh Yodi I I I know you've read copious works by Jo but you know as you may remember she writes family is the foundation upon which society is built right which we all should agree with that that's the building block for societal design and family is for all of us that as I mentioned the primary school um and what does she mean by that? She means that it is within the family that those um should I call it potentiality like this latent faculty we all bring so much with us but it's there within the family that uh they are awakened they are developed and uh to me it's a quite a beautiful image if you think of home as a sacred classroom and what are the lessons? Arithmetic,

t it's there within the family that uh they are awakened they are developed and uh to me it's a quite a beautiful image if you think of home as a sacred classroom and what are the lessons? Arithmetic, English, literature. No, it is love, it is patience, forgiveness and most importantly understanding. Um there are many different discussions that I would like to bring to us perhaps uh uh around that and I just wanted to see can we is there any any thoughts that you have perhaps about the qualitative uh attributes of family as a classroom? Yes, that's an such an amazing topic right Marcia because as you said very well it is irrespective of gender of of culture of nationality of you know uh social status family we all we all are in certain some some sort of family in a certain way >> and yeah it is Joanna does say it beautifully right like it's the fundamental base she says about the the building of life or or society right yes >> so if we imagine and when I read that I had this this know I imagine this building this skyrise let's let's say society you know with many different layers and levels and all that but the family is the foundation is the base is at the core >> it's what you have to build from that in order to go up and I thought that was such a >> such a clever and yet interesting way to describe family >> and just before you go into your next sub is this image that uh that you had in in sharing with us of the foundation. And I just have to say several years ago, I lived in a different state right in Georgia uh Atlanta, Georgia. And I lived downtown and there was this um beautiful uh stadium for baseball, whatever, whatever. And they imploded it. And I saw the implosion, right? And then they started in the place that was once before an older stadium. They started this considered today one of the best stadium. It's just beautiful right in form in function etc. But what struck me it was literally Yudi five minutes from my home. So I walked right I walked almost daily and uh just get out of home

best stadium. It's just beautiful right in form in function etc. But what struck me it was literally Yudi five minutes from my home. So I walked right I walked almost daily and uh just get out of home and and just walk uh for walking's sake and I would see the time that it took for the foundation. I believe it took onethird of the entire time of the building and its structure to to to rise was just the foundation. And I I would uh I would go my father is an engineer and he specializes in in that right the the the foundations and ge geology of uh places and I would always think of him. I would walk and I'd look but it's it's flat. You don't see anything. It's just all those trucks of this movement flat. Nothing. Right. And I was like [laughter] this is a crazy how can they take so long? And once the foundation was built the the magic happened in our eyes, right? All this beautiful very it's a round building with it's very sculptural. Um and uh and I when you're talking about the the the big building and the foundation being the home, it reminded me of that that it may take uh what it looks like a long time for a child special like oh I I was like that I want to get out. I want to you know uh uh going to this adventure on my own. I don't need you mom and dad. And uh no it's important. It's really really critical that we all understand that for human beings, not animals, right? But for human beings that time together with the lessons of love, the lessons of patience, the the lessons of forgiveness, there's so many very important emotional attributes that are really, you know, in this lab of the family, if you will, uh, is is taught, it is practiced, and it's stimulated. Right. >> But back to you. Sorry, it was a prompt to image [laughter] image upon image >> but it is true. I do have a few constructions around the area as well and they take so long to just prepare the foundation and once that's that's prepared it does go very >> yeah your your microphone your microphone is uh it's failing

nstructions around the area as well and they take so long to just prepare the foundation and once that's that's prepared it does go very >> yeah your your microphone your microphone is uh it's failing >> is it muted sorry >> yeah it's >> still failing can you yeah >> testing testing Very good. Thank you. >> Is it better? I apologize for that everyone. [laughter] >> It's okay. >> I was saying there are >> Yeah, >> there are there are a few constructions around in my area as well. And I saw the same thing you're saying how once they uh the foundation took a while, but once that was built, it went it went up pretty quickly and and we could take that into you know to our lives as well and to realize that with this knowledge of the family being the first school. So it's the school before even there is any school in the spirit's life. So if when we're >> we're learning all those things even if we're are parents if we're siblings if we are uh the sons and daughters whatever we are whatever role we are in a certain family in a certain uh point in time >> we are always learning something we're always contributing to something and just like you said it so well Marcia with the school you have different classes is with the family being the first school of the soul at least the incarnate the incarnated soul >> we are learning a lot things too. We're learning to work our virtues. You said forgiveness, you said patience. And that is very much true. We're learning tolerance. We're learning charity. We're learning solidarity. We're all these things that we will eventually take to society, which is >> let's call it the universal family in a way. If we're thinking through the eyes of the of the spirit now, >> we take that everything we learned in that first school and we expand that to the bigger society. Would you agree? >> Yeah. Yeah, it does. If I if I may, I even, you know, just a thought that came to my mind, right? Because that idea of family as uh the school, the the school before school, the forb school as we

? >> Yeah. Yeah, it does. If I if I may, I even, you know, just a thought that came to my mind, right? Because that idea of family as uh the school, the the school before school, the forb school as we know, right? But the family as the school as the building, the foundational aspect of how we built uh and grow in our journey that is quite long. Um the idea resonates perhaps I don't know if you if you agree or not but with uh when we think about Carl Jung's concept of indivi individuation because in his concept you see as as I understand it a process of be becoming whole. Mhm. >> And for us to individuate, we have to confront certain inner patterns, right? But those inner patterns, they are first activated. The potentiality is there, right? They're first activated in the family life. So when we think about it, Yi it it's almost like the the the family that all that laboratory of a family uh is is where uh we we already mentioned is the the training right ground but also interesting enough it's where all the the the frictions all the shadow within each one of us is is awakened. So there will be conflicts. But when we start to pour love, love is a divine law, you start to to I I'm going to use the the word magic again, but that you start to see some really interesting transformation of the the one family member, the entire family member and as you already mentioned, the entire world as we are part of this universal family. But um if if you if you go deeper in into this right, Joanna D'Angelus in in her literature explains a lot about uh family as you know um the result the family unit a family group we may call it. The family is the result of the spirits. Each one of us, our spirits, our souls long evolutionary journey. And and yes, we can even the flights are fancy here, right? We can even think in terms of family structure beginning in the animal kingdom. And and the the image that comes to my mind are of a lion pride, right? with the the lion the lioness the the the the

t? We can even think in terms of family structure beginning in the animal kingdom. And and the the image that comes to my mind are of a lion pride, right? with the the lion the lioness the the the the young uh the the the the I don't know what they called in in the the the young lions [laughter] but anyways the family members the children and the cubs but it the cubs thank you thank you so one of those it doesn't matter it doesn't have to be a mammal or a feline in this case but in all the animal kingdom you see examples of that structure and how they they change. And one of the animals, by the way, that I am fascinated is actually whales and how they they grow and how they teach, right? Or ringotans is another one that they they spent years teaching the young one uh with imprinting them on the tools for success. But regardless of that, it really reaches its highest expression with us with humanity and uh it's it does that through reason and consciousness. So I love if you could perhaps talk a little bit about how we are somehow programmed for connecting, right? and how our uh I guess our [clears throat] instinct as biosocial animals, right, and gregarious animals, how all of that in in one setting really uh transforms into love and incarnation. through incarnation, we we start to to see ourselves drawn into family groups to learn very specific emotional lessons. >> What do you thought of that? >> It is. >> Yeah, it is such a blessing if you think about the opportunity of reincarnation, the opportunity to be in a family to learn all these things. >> Yeah. >> And it's interesting. Joanna says biocsycho, social, spiritual. She she combines it all [laughter] in one in one sentence as what humans are and it's very much true you know we are very much like you said >> program you break it down what she says because it's important >> bio bio >> psycho so the biological the psychological >> social >> which is already the full word and spiritual so biological psychological social and spiritual she

she says because it's important >> bio bio >> psycho so the biological the psychological >> social >> which is already the full word and spiritual so biological psychological social and spiritual she says in one word it's it's actually interesting and this there's this idea you mentioned with the the animal kingdom that she also talks about where we do see these groupings. We do see these animals helping each other, the you know, whoever like the mother. We see the mother instinct there, but it quote unquote mother instinct. But it's different than the humans because once >> once the animal the like the son the cub the you know the little baby animal reptile bird whatever that may be feline like you said >> once that that animal has enough um independence or is able to to fend off for himself or herself then it >> the the family unit in a way from a lot of animals is just dissolved right there because now it's the animal just go and do things by by itself which happens rather quickly you know think of equin you know and other like like donkeys horses things like that that is just they they already walk and they that's it you know so it's a little different for humans >> which makes us think you know that's it's almost like we have this dormant like you said this dormant capacity of >> grouping ourselves in family units and the mother you know the mother's mother mother's instinct and all those things that are much more I like think augmented you know, much more complex, but also augmented versus what we see in other animals in the animal kingdom where we don't >> once somebody is, you know, my I have two sons. They're going to be my sons in this life for the rest of my life. Doesn't matter if we never talk again or if we talk every day, if we doesn't matter. They are my sons. And it's with animals is different. There is this this thing that it's almost like they move on uh rather quickly emotionally speaking. Uh whereas humans we don't and we must we must think to ourselves why why is

h animals is different. There is this this thing that it's almost like they move on uh rather quickly emotionally speaking. Uh whereas humans we don't and we must we must think to ourselves why why is that? [laughter] Would you agree? >> Yeah, I agree. It's it's funny when you said that my my sons, your two sons, right? They're your sons forever. So I I immediately It's so funny how our imagination goes. I immediately saw you Yudi when you're 85 years old and your children would be what in their 60s or 50s and uh they're gonna be adults fully older than you are now and still treat them >> as you treat them today. I bet. Yeah. So it's it's very interesting. [snorts] Um and I on a on a different note I remember um I became a mother when I was quite young. I I don't know that I was quite prepared emotionally to be, but I did. Um I was married within the first year of our relationship. Here I am. I'm pregnant. And but I had so many ideas what would Marcia be, right? I wanted to be this, I wanted to be that. But the minute Yodi, the minute that's that the maternal instinct that you referenced, right? The minute that I found that I was pregnant, it's some something clicked in me >> that it doesn't matter for the rest of my life, like you said, I'll be the mother of this young child. And and uh I learned later from a friend, this school friend that uh 20 years later reached out to me and uh he said, "Marcia, you sold out of all your dreams. What happened?" And and I don't know that I ever feel to date that it was a sacrifice. It was a choice based on love, a choice based on that deep sense of responsibility for this this child. But one thing that I wanted to say to you uh you if if you if love to hear your opinion on this but uh somehow I don't know why we often imagine families should be perfect as in you fall in love right you fall in love >> and the traditional way is you you get married you have children and there is this beautifully harmonious supportive perfect family unit and um and the

as in you fall in love right you fall in love >> and the traditional way is you you get married you have children and there is this beautifully harmonious supportive perfect family unit and um and the reality that it's not. So let's think about from your parents to you to your children to your grandchildren um what is perhaps the most important uh linkage between all of them which is how to learn and how to teach transmit to the next generation how to include uh be ready for that laboratory and Joanna reminds me right you and I are both spiritist you and and I both believe in reincarnation and we both believe that this is not the first or second or even the last time we're going to have a a a corporeal existence and we have a a a life that is quite interesting each time. But she reminds us that coming back to a new corporeal existence, a new life, if you will, we should more often than not incarnate in the so-called ideal family. Right. >> Right. So think about it. So she says we join the family grouping that will be most effective in helping us awaken those dormant virtues that all the potentiality. So immediately uh when I think of it and I say Joanna you are so right. [laughter] You are so right because you would be a wasted think about it. If you come as a as a as an immortal soul and if you have I'm going to pretend here that's not true. I'm just for uh uh pedagogical reasons, right? We have 10 incarnations. And boy, you need to learn X in incarnation nine, right? Would you waste that ninth one almost the last one in put you in a a family that will give everything that you want and will not challenge you, push you, expand and and and and stretch you into learning what you need to learn which is X. So it's very interesting because all that uh in often families we have that what they call the the the black sheep of the family in the family we have somebody who's the most outspoken we have somebody that is spoiled to death somebody who's lazy somebody who's entitled somebody who's

call the the the black sheep of the family in the family we have somebody who's the most outspoken we have somebody that is spoiled to death somebody who's lazy somebody who's entitled somebody who's the super performer and everybody's jealous. So we have all those different types of uh attributes from a p personality perspective. But let's think about that's exactly what you need. Those interactions are what we need. >> Yeah. >> It is it is very interesting because she does say that we don't >> uh a person doesn't doesn't live in an ideal family and but but she >> but she explains the notion of ideal which is interesting because tell us what it is. Yeah. >> She said she she explains that we one doesn't live in in >> cuz everybody would like to live in groups of spirits that everybody's wise and everybody's super evolved. You know if I could live with angelical spirits as you know my sibling, my mother, my dad and you know my wife now my sons and I'm the only one that's not angelical that would be so I would be wow be so it would be so much easier to learn cuz I would learn from them. they would teach, you know, but in reality that's not that's not the ideal. The ideal the ideal in a way what's right is what we reincarnate in because nobody nobody's here for like without a higher purpose. We have the people around us because we need those people around us and it's not it would be so yeah we think we think foolishly I think in in some ways that oh if I was surrounded only by angelical beings it would be much easier. Jesus didn't surround himself by angelical beings when he chose the apostles. >> Yeah. >> What is that if not a lesson of you surround yourself by people that have the potential that are still imperfect as well that are still uh not pure spirits and then you learn from them. You teach them. You do all those things that you need to do. And our family >> as we're talking is the and I think it's another author Andre Luis who says it's the microcosm of of you know redemption

You teach them. You do all those things that you need to do. And our family >> as we're talking is the and I think it's another author Andre Luis who says it's the microcosm of of you know redemption and things like that. So alluding to this notion that we have the people around us that we need to have and nobody has there's no per you mentioned in the beginning there's no perfect family the word perfect there's only God is perfect number one so there's no perfect family but we of course we would like to think oh if my mom wasn't this way or if my dad hadn't been that way if my my if we we'd like to think all of that >> and how can we have a perfect family if we imagine that it's a combination of ingredients I think of like doing a fruit salad, right, Marcia? If you if you get if you get a grape that's a bit, you know, overripe and you get, I don't know, a banana that's a bit rotten and you combine all of that, how are you going to have a perfect >> tasting fruit salad? You won't. So, it's >> although although I have to tell you, I have to tell you because uh I recently um went to Bordeaux in France. B in in Portuguese uh Bhau in French but it's it's in English is Bordeaux as well right and um and uh there uh there is a structure museum that talks about how wines are made across the world and I found out that in France they actually there's this very interesting I never knew this chemistry of overripe right and they they actually allow certain grapes to have a certain not all of ripeness or even um with uh viruses or whatever they they they left that because it's in the mix that we have the best of the best wine and I was absolutely oblivious of that and it's exactly what you you were talking about the the the the fruit salad right we don't want all overripe uh banana Yeah. >> If we have if we have an apple that has like a little worm in it and a banana that's rotten, like how how do you expect No, no. But how do you expect the fruit salad to be perfect? So imagine

Yeah. >> If we have if we have an apple that has like a little worm in it and a banana that's rotten, like how how do you expect No, no. But how do you expect the fruit salad to be perfect? So imagine now the fruits are spirits, right? We are still impure. We're still imperfect. So when we combine all of those imperfect beings, you're not going to have a perfect unity. You're not going to have a perfect family. You're going to have, you know, one that tastes a little off here and there, but it's it's how it is. and we are and that's okay because we are >> where we need to be >> with the people we need to be because you also touched on a >> a a pivotal concept I think whenever we're talking about family >> this idea that the spirit will number one is immortal number two is going to go and has already gone through multiple reincarnations so adopting a body of >> of like meat and flesh and bones and all of those things >> and we have had histories >> previous histories with people and sometimes these people >> they have to come in our family members because we are their enemies. They're our enemies whatever that may be. We have debts that we we have to sort of like see too. And the family is the best place because that's where you have the love, you have the patience, you are bound to one another and you have to exercise those things, the love, the forgiveness that sometimes is very very hard. And if we don't look at it with the eyes of the spirit, I think it becomes even harder to exercise forgiveness, to exercise love and tolerance. When you think to when you don't think to yourself, wow, maybe I have to learn to forgive and I have to learn to learn to love this person that is so opposite to me, that is so different than me, you know. What do you think? >> I I I I absolutely like it and uh what comes to my mind uh is, you know, the the lesson of forgiveness. uh you don't forgive seven times, you forgive 70 times seven and I would say four. >> Uh how old is your youngest?

like it and uh what comes to my mind uh is, you know, the the lesson of forgiveness. uh you don't forgive seven times, you forgive 70 times seven and I would say four. >> Uh how old is your youngest? >> Two. >> Oh, there you go. The terrible twos, right? When the [laughter] child uh learns uh from a uh development perspective that the child is no longer part of the mother, but it's a me, right? It's two individuals. And in that instance again that it's it's beautiful. It's miraculous even that oh now I know who I am. It starts to have a voice and test the voice right. It is no no and it is that point that you say Yudi for you and your wife [laughter] >> it's not 70 time 7 time 70 it's 7 * 70 each question [laughter] >> yes the child because they keep stretching right they keep pushing but and I said no no no [laughter] so it's a it's a very interesting which one of the um after the results the aftermath of of this uh this time period of uh being two year old depends on on each person but around that uh uh 24 months uh we see independence but we also see the love in the discipline right because if you can imagine a a parent uh two parents that if the child asks something that is absolutely not appropriate and the parent says yes right because I don't I don't want to be bothered with that discussion the child may get into serious trouble including safety issues but u but I I think it's a it's it's really if you think about not just a terrible twos with the constant wise and and asks for uh the same thing uh hundreds of times each day. Um we we see that there there will be conflicts and we can only imagine um when those children will become uh teenagers, right? As in in youth when it that sense of independence of the terrible twos become woo exacerbated to yeah uh infinity sometimes. and uh and you have to to to show love and discipline at the same time. But that's when um I see that's in this type of laboratory that our needs each one of us are addressed and uh to

nity sometimes. and uh and you have to to to show love and discipline at the same time. But that's when um I see that's in this type of laboratory that our needs each one of us are addressed and uh to be addressed bringing back what Joanna said right with the incarnation there will be conflict there will be misunderstandings and that's the part of the job that we signed up um I I just wonder I if um if we could uh uh write to understand this easier. It's not for anybody. If you are a spiritualist, spiritist, if you are a psychologist, it does not matter. It's equally hard. Don't you think? >> It is. It is equally hard because at the at the bottom, we're all human. Doesn't matter the label, the the religious label, the professional >> role we have in our lives, this life. No, we're all human in the bottom, at the core. And we are surrounded by people that we must be surrounded by because as I was saying before, if we were just surrounded by pure and angelical creatures, how could I exercise patience, forgiveness, cuz they wouldn't make mistakes towards me? How can I learn to forgive if somebody if if you know if I was surrounded by bunch of Jesus's I would not learn I would need I wouldn't need to forgive. I wouldn't need to be patient. I would not need to be tolerant. >> So how could how would I be able to exercise those virtues? Then the answer is I wouldn't. Therefore, >> we are very because of the grace and the love of our God, we are surrounded by the people we need to be surrounded by so we can learn all these things. So we can do different than perhaps what we have done >> previously. And that is I I think that's such a um >> such a hopeful sort of thought to to >> to have and to hold and to >> uh utilize in our lives because that that's what spiritism also helps us so much with giving this different perspective so we can carry on and learn these virtues and at least try to practice uh these virtues and forgive and all of that much more easily. They think >> yeah I know you you have you're a

erent perspective so we can carry on and learn these virtues and at least try to practice uh these virtues and forgive and all of that much more easily. They think >> yeah I know you you have you're a clinical psychologist and you have a lot of experience without betraying your patients. Is there anything that comes to mind in in terms of those uh deep embedded conflicts and friction that perhaps you could bring into the perspective of the family as as school? Look, I I I see teenagers. I see some older children and teenagers and adults mainly. And then when the teenagers come, they come usually with with the parents cuz the parents come and like, "Oh, I'm bringing my son or my daughter whatever to therapy." >> Uh and which we start to go over what's going on and you know what's what we can work on. And I have countless times I have caught myself seeing the interaction of let's say I have a lot of patients who are boys because I'm a male therapist and and they usually prefer to talk to guys. Um, so I've I've seen countless of times and I caught myself thinking this countless of times observing the interaction of let's say a mom and a son or or a son and a dad and the parent is is telling me I give I give him everything or or you know there's so I only give love. I only give this and that and he still doesn't like me. He still disobys me. he only listens to the other parent or he only hugs the other parent like and you can see that there is like resent there is some resentment there's always feelings there are like negative feelings toward that parent in this specific you know case but I' I've I've seen it multiple times >> and you can only look and and think there has to be something beyond this 12 years 13 years 14 years that this person has been in this other person's life to generate that much, you know, hatred, that much resentment, animosity. Exactly. You, if you look at that only with the material eyes and the eyes of this specific reincarnation, >> you would not find an answer as to why

you know, hatred, that much resentment, animosity. Exactly. You, if you look at that only with the material eyes and the eyes of this specific reincarnation, >> you would not find an answer as to why that child hates that parent so much. And you so so I I catch myself thinking, wow, there's >> there's only one explanation. And and you know it's it's >> the the immortality of the soul and everything we already talked about as far as the spirits having these debts, having these things that they must come and they must learn with one another, you know. >> Yeah. And I'm not uh asking uh you to you know solve anybody's problem. But uh if if I came to you and now I'm the uh young uh young 18year-old or 16year-old deeply conflicted right I'm deeply conflicted and my parents brought me to talk to you Yodi what is something that you would tell me that would perhaps help me understand what's going on what's what's all this why I why can I as a young person Mhm. >> can talk to friends. I can talk to schoolmates. I can talk to parents of other friends. But I and and you already said it, but how can you alleviate the burden of guilt of uh an individual perhaps? I don't know if you address that, but I I think it would be lovely. >> No, I I I do address if you're 18, you not parents would not come with you, but if you were, let's say, younger, the parents would have to come with you by law, you know. So the idea is because they're still responsible for you. So the idea in this situation, there's always these situations where there's these especially older teenagers, let's say 15, 16, 17, high schoolers here in the United States, >> where they do want they do want the relationship to improve with their parent like with a specific parent and all that. So >> when they have that when they have that motivation which by the way they all do some of them is just it's just like hidden or >> there's so much resentment that it's kind of like on top of that motivation that I want to I want to I want to like

vation which by the way they all do some of them is just it's just like hidden or >> there's so much resentment that it's kind of like on top of that motivation that I want to I want to I want to like my dad I want to hug my mom. I want to you know have love and and give love to them. But the thing is trying to find that motivation and often times you know it's more it's more e it's easier. Sometimes it's hard, but once you find that and you work with that core of the motivation to help them with their behaviors and all those things that they need to see that pair in a different eye, and I'm saying this, and I I'll make a parenthesis here, >> it all depends on the psychological, we're not going to get too much that, but in the psychological uh um um line of treatment that each person adopts, you know, I have a specific one. Other people might have a different approach to this, but the main thing is they all they all want to he to live a life that have they have no stress. So if they have a stress with a family member, well would you like to have a less stressed you know relationship? >> The answer is always yes invariably. So let's work let's work towards that you know. >> Yeah that's very interesting right? uh we we all in pain and uh our way because we are in western society we we all are root cause right or uh cause and effect it's painful I mean take away the pain but not always looking for the root cause especially if you don't have a disposition to to really seek well if it's not here if if there are no apparent causes for what's going on today in my childhood, it must be elsewhere. So, in any ways, I I I just really like what you're saying that that no matter what, the majority of uh young families with uh uh young uh teens that are troubled and causing all sorts of stress, there is hidden or not a desire to to love, to to go back to that sense of peace, the sense of belonging, right? And let me just let me just add the fact that, you know, since we're on this

of stress, there is hidden or not a desire to to love, to to go back to that sense of peace, the sense of belonging, right? And let me just let me just add the fact that, you know, since we're on this >> Yeah. >> children and and teenagers, a lot of the times >> it's much quote unquote easier to work with them and to help them than the parents cuz the parents often times don't think they have any >> any agency, you know, really. They don't [laughter] think they they, you know, they just they just want to drop their children like they're dropping their car off for an oil change, you know, and they pick it up and it's already quote unquote solved and fixed, quote unquote fixed, you know, >> and they don't realize the importance and the role they have. So, a lot of a lot of the work for child psychologist and those who are listening to me will agree is with the parents that you have to >> help the parents help themselves and help the child. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> And that's that's a Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's it's interesting because if you think about it and I'm going to deviate the the topic from the family as the parents and children to a couple, right? >> Yeah. >> You I mentioned before you fall in love, you get married and uh fairy tales. You want the ideal relationship, the ideal marriage, the the happy ever after. And statistics tell us nope. [laughter] >> I think we we approaching 75% of all relationships, marriage specifically uh and in divorce. But what is so interesting I'm quoting someone who was going through divorce Yodi maybe 30 years ago. a long time ago, this this woman uh was and I never forgot because she she could not believe that the battlefield, if you will, the battlefield of a divorce, uh the her her spouse, her separated spouse would come back with all the worst parts of her. and and he was we could say the worst enemy because he knew all her flaws and and I said, "Yeah, you you slept with the enemy for the a long time and you shared all your vulnerability." But that's what family

he was we could say the worst enemy because he knew all her flaws and and I said, "Yeah, you you slept with the enemy for the a long time and you shared all your vulnerability." But that's what family is, isn't it? It's this this this place where we should not have masks. We should be ourselves. We should uh unveil all of our imperfections because family as this the school right the first school of the soul the family is there to actually polish to educate even though there will be points of friction between the family members but how can we um educate if we don't know what needs to be educated so uh I I I'm doing an invitation. This is Marcia speaking. Nobody else, but I'm inviting all of us to be who we are authentically. So, with all of our flaws in the family, let's not be shy because that's the place that we should learn and love and uh really um I was going to use the word alchemy. I don't know that you you like that word so much, but that's the the magic, right? Where uh we we deal with our shadows, we deal with all of our imperfections, and how I just rub it the wrong way. But together in with the with this >> um commitment to love, to care, to protect, we should then learn to be better. What are what are your thoughts, Yudi? No, absolutely. Again, the family as you know, we're talking about the first school of the soul and in school like you said, bringing back to the beginning a little bit. Yeah. >> You learn all these things and of course if when you mentioned the mask piece, you know, >> there is >> if you said you're sleeping with the you slept with the enemy for so many years >> in the in the in the family, it's so much harder close to impossible even depending you know to keep those masks because we're seeing them every time. We're seeing them so many, you know, it's much easier to do that with somebody you only see once a month or, you know, for a couple of hours every day at your work and things like that, but >> at our best at our best, right? We are

know, it's much easier to do that with somebody you only see once a month or, you know, for a couple of hours every day at your work and things like that, but >> at our best at our best, right? We are at our best. Uh, >> we try we try to always be at our best, of course. [laughter] But but in in the household, you know, in the family under those, you know, four walls that I mean, sorry, under the same roof, that's when we >> that's when we sometimes come undone. That's when we we, you know, take that mask off. And that's why people they tend to know us better than than most because of that and like and vice versa. But I think there's a lot of beauty in that >> because it's like they're seeing the true you like with all your defects with all your uh skills already with all your virtues or if you know all those things. I think that is it's it's such a beautiful thing at least in my like idea to see somebody as a whole like with everything >> everything you know. It's like you're getting the full >> the full version of the person. And I think in the family we get to do that. Often times we don't like it because we feel vulnerable. But that's perhaps another >> episode of this podcast. But the idea >> but the idea is that we have we have the the family as the first school because we're learning all these things that we need to learn because the soul the immortal soul is progressing. In order to progress, same way in the school, you need to construct and build the the knowledge piece by piece, little by little. It's a process like Joanna says, is a process. And the idea of process is that it's this gradual, you know, methodical, systematical approach to things. We're we're learning. We're evolving. And family allows us to do that. We are meant to live in society. We're we don't we're not meant to live as hermits. All of us, all billions and billions of people. So it's >> I think those those are some things that we can think about and reflect and see how we can you know apply in our daily

nt to live as hermits. All of us, all billions and billions of people. So it's >> I think those those are some things that we can think about and reflect and see how we can you know apply in our daily lives. >> I love it. I I believe we can close it because it's such beautiful thoughts from you [clears throat] Yudi and uh just to wrap up but we we saw today that uh family cannot be seen as just a social contract right it is a a classroom of the soul. It's a divine classroom of the soul, if you will. It's a place where all souls will uh desire to meet again and when they're back together, they're there to heal, to grow, to learn the I would say the sacred art of love. But uh I would also venture to say that both spiritism and psychology as uh you talked about your practice um we we all believe that relationships are the mirrors of our inner world be the parent being the child be right whatever it is that the situation of conflict we are really mirroring what's behind it all and uh uh to me Yodi The more we are able to heal within, the more we are able to bring a sense of peace and harmony to our families. So perhaps perhaps uh for all of us uh tonight before we go to sleep, we can take a moment to just be grateful and uh bless this family unit that we're in. And it may be that uh you don't live with them, your larger family, right? That you're you're alone. But let's just take a moment to to be grateful and to bless them with all especially >> for all their imperfections, but also with all their their beauty. recognizing that uh this is the school that our souls needed and was the school that we it was customized just for us. So anyways, let us rewrite right Yudi for all of us that are living in conflict and most of us are let us attempt to rewrite this this story with love and uh in in harmony and I just want to say Yi thank you thank you thank you so much for being here with me today with us and uh for all of you who are here listening to this podcast uh thank you thank you

h in in harmony and I just want to say Yi thank you thank you thank you so much for being here with me today with us and uh for all of you who are here listening to this podcast uh thank you thank you for you're being here for listening. And for those of you who perhaps are tuning in for the first time, the psychology and spirituality weekly talks, they're uh are based on the works by Joanna D'Angel. We peppered our conversation with reference to some of her um insightful teachings, right, Y? And uh we we're just we hope that you can take a little bit of nuggets from the juxiposition of uh spirituality and psychology. Um I also want to thank our sponsoring uh organizations Mansu Camino, United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council and I mean Brazil that is the organization that is the Brazilian arm of an international medical spiritist association. I want to say thank you everyone for being here and Yudi until next time. Thank you so much. >> Thank you.