Ep 142 - Education, Courage, and the Power to Change

Hi everyone, welcome all of you dear friends. Welcome Ana Dr. Ana to this new episode of psychology and spirituality. So Dr. Naifon my I consider you my dear friend joins me today. So we can together discuss a topic that Joanna the angels explore in her work right. Education and specifically today we're going to um discuss education but also as it is attached to courage and the power to change. I believe and I that uh Joanna provides this beautiful invitation for all of us to really understand courage and I see courage not as impulsiveness or even courage as this absence of fear but as a moral force born of love, faith and inner balance. It's an attribute that uh I would say dignifies us but also propels us into our spiritual growth or moral growth. But if I also start thinking about and I I am thinking that we could illustrate her teachings on this topic and um somehow connect with the concept brought forth by Joseph Campbell's the hero's journey with an very very interesting movie uh the freedom writers which is a powerful powerful story of a teacher's courage courage, right? And the courage not just to educate but to transform the lives of those students in her classroom through compassion, perseverance and her indelible faith in the human potential. So if we quote Joanna, we can say that courage is not about fighting dragons outside. It is about conquering the fears within. So Ana, how you doing? Can and before we begin, can I start with maybe giving a little bit to the audience who may not know uh the movie or have not seen it or forgot about it and we then we can talk about it. But how are you doing? >> Yes, go ahead. I'm feeling great >> and very excited to be here with you and talking about courage and education and the power to change. So let's go ahead and and please tell us about the movie. >> Okay. Okay. So the 2007 so two almost two decades ago, right? Uh the movie freedom writers uh was inspired by this true story about this quite young it was her first job right a

us about the movie. >> Okay. Okay. So the 2007 so two almost two decades ago, right? Uh the movie freedom writers uh was inspired by this true story about this quite young it was her first job right a very young and idealistic English teacher her name is Erin G grill uh she was called by her students by Mrs. G for girl. Um, and she begins teaching at Woodroll Wilson High School in Long Beach, California. The interesting thing is that the the book uh oh my goodness, I spoiled the spoil alert, right? This is this is terrible. But uh they did uh um publish a book and the book was published in 1999. Okay. So if we if we trace the storyline, this movie is about her coming to the classroom for the first time in 1994, but two years prior 1992 um it was uh there was this uh Los Angeles riots and I don't know if you remember I remember I was living in Atlanta the time ani and the day of those riots it exploded a similar in downtown Atlanta where I worked and uh so it was quite scary because the whole country was just there's so much hatred and violence and uh all um expressing a school but really the whole country right deeply divided by racial tension gang violence poverty etc etc so anyways What is the plot? Uh, this young idealistic stu teacher comes to a classroom to teach um at risk. They were called at risk freshmen. And uh those students included many different racial groups and ethnic backgrounds such as African-American, Latino, Cambodian, and others. And many of those um students have already experienced and this is important to for us to to to have in our minds here and I trauma PTSD right discrimination incredible loss. Um so as we would expect Aaron comes to her classroom all just fresh. She's quite cute with her uh her pearls and everybody says don't wear your pearls. It's going to be gone. And she goes day after day with her pearls, right? Just uh exemplifying her courage, her quiet courage. But she comes in and she faces hostility in and outside of the classroom. But in the classroom,

And she goes day after day with her pearls, right? Just uh exemplifying her courage, her quiet courage. But she comes in and she faces hostility in and outside of the classroom. But in the classroom, the hostility also was expressed by apathy. Right? those students could care less about this this young woman. They could care less about her lack of awareness and understanding. They viewed her as an outsider. But also in their young lives, they all had one common thread, which was little hope for their future, right? Um but Aaron goes through and she and I don't know what's the best way to say this quite frankly but uh uh she goes through that shield of apathy and she just borrows through and she starts to connect them and the the three main areas of connecting to those students is number one she encouraged them to write their stories in a journal right the Number two is to introduce them to books and historical figures that are closely matching or connecting or even mirroring their own struggles. So um the I remember the diary of an Frankos Lartus diary right so it's all connecting for them and finally she created in that classroom a safe space whereas whenever they left the threshold of that classroom they're no longer safe they they had right and I they had to put their guards up there just really there's this sense of my life is in danger danger every minute of the day. But anyways, she created that safe uh space and that the space was really woven with empathy, storytelling and understanding across those racial lines. So through that process, her students start seeing themselves and this is Joanna Pure Joanna, right? They start to see themselves no longer as victims of circumstances. And I love that because that that journey through self-awareness, they were able to to open their minds and their hearts to tell their unique stories and um in doing that they start to see who they were. Right. So um just to wrap up uh an they form the so-called freedom writers as in writer right an author

their hearts to tell their unique stories and um in doing that they start to see who they were. Right. So um just to wrap up uh an they form the so-called freedom writers as in writer right an author [clears throat] and uh the the title is inspired by the freedom writers of the civil rights movement uh of a a couple decades earlier and uh eventually um they published their own collection of journal entries. I have to confess I I did not uh read the book, but I I you know this conversation today is making me want to immediately after uh we we talk to go get me the book and read because it's it's quite touching the movie. So I told you the plot. What are your thoughts? I think you've seen the movie. Can you tell us a little about from your perspective how does the movie really bring us some really interesting concepts that we can find in within Joanna D'Angelo's work? >> Yes. So we have a lot to talk about if we have time. But it's Amar is so up todate unfortunately right in terms of what's going on with the young uh people right and I think you talked about the myth of the hero >> uh that it's of course the it's development of consciousness ego consciousness and and what happens that when you are a teenager you are in this in between um the child that you were yesterday. >> Yeah. >> And the adult that you are not yet, right? >> Yeah. >> So, it's a very tough um and moment of the of life. >> And what we have to understand is that a lot of people ask me, oh, but what's going on with youth? you know, because they are so sometimes so aggressive and always um this kind of riots and there are still going on nowadays and we have of course noble um issues to go and fight for. But um what really is courage and which kind of values are we you know the reflection of what is important to fight for? you said um so I wanted to to go back >> okay >> to be to the movie and to see as an example right of you know youngsters and people >> that uh as you said they of course had a lot of traumas

ght for? you said um so I wanted to to go back >> okay >> to be to the movie and to see as an example right of you know youngsters and people >> that uh as you said they of course had a lot of traumas >> because when you grow up in poverty and you grow up with parents maybe alcoholics or you know drug addicts and a lot of stuff that goes own. And it's not only um poor people because you can have of of course different uh mental diseases and drug addictions and things like that in all classes and um all social classes, social strata. >> But I think something it's very important Mar that Joanna calls us to and you said also that in the movie they didn't have any hope of the future, >> right? They were like stuck and a lot of people feel nowadays uh without hope. >> Yeah. >> And without you know possibility to >> you know what is going to be a lot of fear is going on these days. We we have lots of uh uh you know threats. >> Yeah. >> Like like the the the the adolescence in the movie, right? the teenagers >> that you said she made a safe space for them. What is our safe space? >> Yeah. >> Right. Because we are many times like they um in the movie and they were teenagers that of course everything is very increased because of the not being actually an adult and yet >> and all the traumas of childhood are so near consciousness. Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So it's a very psychologically speaking it's a very tough period of time but I think you said something that it's um >> pretty much from our days our as we have been talking in previously in previous episodes please people go there and >> we have talked about apocalyptic times that we are in times of revelation things like that. So what I think John is asking us to pay attention is that um if we don't know who we are right >> if we don't know what we are doing in this world in this life if we are um you know uh stuck in the material world thinking that um well if I don't have the money that I I need for you know uh maybe I will lose everything what's

doing in this world in this life if we are um you know uh stuck in the material world thinking that um well if I don't have the money that I I need for you know uh maybe I will lose everything what's going to be maybe it's going to be a conflict in my neighborhood in my country so what's going to be my future so all of this >> is the ego fear of course is from the ego or Joanna says that many times we have from past lives some patterns and some very strong emotion that we bring to this life and then we we make again we are in situations that bring these feelings and these emotions and this >> it's almost if if I may just to clarify to myself and I so um point one that you bring is that we are all sharing the same in in today's age right um we we share the same sense of hopelessness as those youngsters but number two is that uh with with the beautiful teachings of Joanna and many other in in in the field of psychology. Of course, uh we we we understand that those fears are mostly a based on our ego, right? Our ego that is afraid. But uh we also a third layer into what you're saying is the fact that uh just a reminder we are immortal souls, right? And as immortal uh spirits, we don't die. We reincarnate. We have this uh the the the the big arc of our lives, various existence, corporists, but we may bring from previous ones those patterns. And I I what I I brought those three points that you brought it up and I is the question that uh what I think you're trying to say and I just wanted to clarify there is that there may be some pain points already there that may not have to do anything with the current structure or current uh conflict but because that wound is already there uh the the the new the today the current conflict is just touching upon it and the pain comes through. Is this is this what you're trying to say or how can we maybe correct uh my >> No, I think I think yeah because we have sufferings from this life >> as the teenagers in that neighborhood in that situation

his is this what you're trying to say or how can we maybe correct uh my >> No, I think I think yeah because we have sufferings from this life >> as the teenagers in that neighborhood in that situation >> but we also bring sufferings uh misunderstandings difficult patterns >> feelings and emo and emotions connected to some of our complexes right things that leave and got a lot stuck like guilty feelings of being guilt from from about something that can even be like potentialized like um increased in this life. So we have to understand and I think this is so important and it's all about education as you were saying uh um education for courage for being uh brave in this life facing the challenges. So when we think when we change the paradigm of the way that we are facing life, understanding life, understanding ourselves in our place in this world, what are we doing here >> uh individually and collectively? So it changes everything the way that the teacher did, you know, because she asked them to write diaries about themselves, right? and she made them read and frank and all, you know, but was a very tough time for a teenager >> uh in the middle of the Second World War and all that uh aggressiveness, horror and everything else. >> But she was talking about her life and she was making observation. She was like any other teenagers. She left a legacy of of uh courage. Yeah. >> of uh you know and giving the example that life has always always something to teach us >> that we are here in this precious life >> uh even if it's uh we suffer uh of course and all of us go through different types of suffering all of us doesn't matter the amount of money the condition the race the gender whatever we it's human condition to this day in this in this world that is transi trans transitioning for higher vibrations. We know that through spiritious knowledge, right? But these vibrations increase love, increased spiritual awakening. So it has everything to do and it's the main purpose of uh Joanna the angelist

ons. We know that through spiritious knowledge, right? But these vibrations increase love, increased spiritual awakening. So it has everything to do and it's the main purpose of uh Joanna the angelist to help us awaken to this reality and that is within us in our higher selves. So of course teenagers would of course be more difficult for to teach that because they are questioning adults all the time >> which is their role right it's their role to question anyways [laughter] >> because you cannot teach something that you haven't learned yet so I think it's a beautiful beautiful example that uh that teacher you know she she taught them through love through connecting to to their experience to recognizing them as not all teenagers that have undergone this and this that the difficulty but brothers and sisters living the same kind of experience >> that of course can be harder tougher for to some than more than others but uh in the end we all learn through suffering. We hope in the future Mars and everybody else that we are not going to have to go through so much suffering to learn you know but we know that even courage >> suffering teach us to be brave to have courage and I just wanted to remind everyone I think in some other episode we have already at least said something about that but courage comes from the Latin word um core that it's heart in Latin and uh H courage uh that it's aid that it's to act right so it's to act to have courage as Joanna says is to act with the wisdom of the heart but where is the wisdom of the heart it's not in our mind saying this and that if I don't do this of Of course we need our minds. You of course we have to discern what's learn to discern learn to rationalize well this means that and all this stuff but uh and that's intelligence of course >> but when we are talking about the wisdom it's wisdom it's not intelligence. So wisdom of the heart is something that I bring with me from all my past experiences >> because of course I have suffered in

ut when we are talking about the wisdom it's wisdom it's not intelligence. So wisdom of the heart is something that I bring with me from all my past experiences >> because of course I have suffered in other lives. We we are still learning through this process of suffering but I have also Mara I have also learned something and what I have what I have learned taught me not to suffer anymore from that. >> Yeah. So it's so great. It's what happens in the movie, right? They changed in the end all the paradigm. They understand that they are not the only ones to suffer and that the the legacy as you said we make our own legacy but it's more important to to help us each one of us to understand that um as Joanna says I inherit everything that my spirit learns >> right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So and even what it has not learned yet but will because we are having this great opportunity. So if I don't want to suffer anymore, of course I I can I'm able to because I'm here to learn. So the it's the suffering that helps me to understand that I don't need to suffer anymore. And I think you are helping all all of us that have seen the movie but it was many many years ago >> to to connect again with this beautiful story that it's a true story right as you were telling us. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Of this teacher that taught I think she taught them mostly that it's a very high spiritual value that we are all brothers and sisters. Yes, >> that we all go through sufferings that we can help each other but especially that we have um to help ourselves first and we help ourselves as J said developing uh you know self-consciousness understanding that uh who we are what is my value I cannot expect others to to show myself right show me actually uh which is my value uh which uh which are my values uh and who I am. >> I have to find that. But when you are a teenager and of course and even if we say spiritually speaking right because we are like spiritual children. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Teenage years. So we are going to have

e to find that. But when you are a teenager and of course and even if we say spiritually speaking right because we are like spiritual children. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Teenage years. So we are going to have mentors such as Jonah Danggeles, the beautiful light light teacher, others that come. We have examples of uh heroes that have been here before us have led the way, right? We have so many beautiful examples. Martin Luther King, Gandandy, Mother Teresa of Kolkata and so many others. uh so that have showed us the way but uh we don't of course we can be inspired by them but we have to find our own challenges >> which are our our challenges what am I supposed to do here what I have come to learn which sufferings I of course um I'm going to go through until I learn but if I know that then hope as returning to what you said, hope comes back to me and this trust as you were citing Jonah Angelus, this trust, this faith in not in other people because peu teenagers they are always trying to you know to see your when you are going to say something that you really don't believe but you want to teach me, right? They're challenging us all the time. So if we find our the the connection to our own the wisdom of our our hearts our the the truth within ourselves not others ourselves and then we I connect to the transcendent to God to you know the mentors to the spiritual realms >> uh and not because I'm a median many people are but You know some people don't don't have this capability this ability to see and this and that but the heart knows as Yung says what is good for the soul. >> Yeah. So then I can >> feel that I have this mentors and this spiritual guides with me and then I can connect to someone that really wants to help me that has this connection spiritual connection with me and then I can see that I'm not alone. We are never alone. We know that. But sometimes we feel alone because we feel disconnected. >> Yeah. >> But I want to to listen to you. What do you think about all of this?

can see that I'm not alone. We are never alone. We know that. But sometimes we feel alone because we feel disconnected. >> Yeah. >> But I want to to listen to you. What do you think about all of this? >> I I just love it. Uh and uh as as you're speaking, the images from the movie comes to my mind is uh difficult. One of the just you know there's many difficult scenes but one of the scenes that was the most difficult was a one of the school administrator uh in their library has many many many copies say of infrank and the young Aaron goes there to take it for her students and she says no no they cannot have these books because they destroy them, right? And she goes into almost like uh children's stories. Uh it says this is where they have the capacity to read. And as as she pointed to those uh little uh books, they're all pretty much destroyed already. and and that uh scene and I just struck a chord because the the hypothesis here is just like um and we can even say multigenerational for those kids at risk is that they will never amount to anything. Right? This is a a terrible phrasing, but they will never graduate. They will never be professional. they will never be able to to to be contributing citizens to society. They are already somehow classified as u in their disenfranchised state as marginalized and uh leading to a life of violence and crime. So the result of that is she doesn't accept it. So she takes another job just so she could buy not the same book but brand new book to those children. And that's one way to change the paradigm. Um which is I'm going to treat you as the most important person in my life. And she did that with the entire class of of young uh students. And she did that and she she kept uh uh stretching, right? She just kept uh uh creating expanding the boundaries of her role uh with the the one objective. You will learn to trust yourself as you mentioned. You will learn to have faith. You will learn to tap into hope. And you're going to do

nding the boundaries of her role uh with the the one objective. You will learn to trust yourself as you mentioned. You will learn to have faith. You will learn to tap into hope. And you're going to do all of this through educational tools and and methodologies, but you're going to capture your courage not to be part of a gang through violence, but with the the the biggest most difficult one of all, which is to to trust yourself. So, one of the things that I wanted to to say, I think we have a little bit of time uh before we wrap up today, but Joanna says the following. Human existence can be seen as this as an evolutionary adventure. Right? Human existence can be seen as an evolutionary adventure. you and I I'm sure we agree with Joanna D'Angelus when she says that we're always evolving, right? But the the fact that she uses this sense of uh uh growth and progressive uh evolution in in our maturity as I think you call it as uh uh very young immature spirits that we are right. But uh if we hear the the word that she uses this evolutionary adventure somehow it connected with Joseph Campbell's hero's journey and in that and I love Joseph Campbell by the way but uh there he Joseph Campbell brings the image of the hero um and he hears he anyone right uh as the hero He hears the call to adventure, right? Okay, Joanna, we're touching here. But through that call and embarking in this new adventure, the hero will have to face trials, right? There will be a lot of things going on, some hercilian, some not. And then the hero returns to the place that it began transformed. So if we go back to what you brought here from a uh definition of courage, right, the heart and in the action together. Courage in this sense um courage would be defined perhaps as what moves the spirit, the hero to leave the comfort zone. What do you think? Yes, I think uh because you see um we say that the hero's journey is the development of consciousness here in this. So it's an adventure but the ego is serving

ave the comfort zone. What do you think? Yes, I think uh because you see um we say that the hero's journey is the development of consciousness here in this. So it's an adventure but the ego is serving the ego must serve as Joseph Campo says um the self capital S the higher self right that it's the spirit as Jonah says so the the ego is here to serve to live this life this adventure >> to learn >> and it's serving the evolution of the spirit. It's not here, you know, >> just to have fun to play. Well, this can be it's part of of this education. uh but especially and I think it's very important because the mentors is they are always warning us >> that this life okay we are immortal beings we are going to live you know so uh forever and of course we are going to evolve as Jana says and it's an adventure this evolution we we cannot even imagine what's ahead of us beautiful the words the world you know the cosmos Janna is calling us to cosmic consciousness people >> I'm not going to talk even about you know some comets that are [laughter] bowing in the internet and all this stuff people are talking a lot about um uh what is that or that what is going on and all this but we know >> through Alan Cardardex's uh teachings right >> and uh we have here in Brazil and of course you guys have in United States Edgar Kazy and we have medians all around the globe here in Brazil Devaldu and Chico Xavier uh that of course we are understanding through um spiritist knowledge and through all this medians that we are here to evolve. We are in a very specific uh time of our evolution here in this planet that it's having um a shift of consciousness the >> the whole of humanity and the sensient beings also because we are not alone right we are here with a lot of beings >> and we are um of plants animals and all minerals >> and all this life in the planet. >> Yeah. So of course we are uh uh we are going through this uh this adventure. >> Yeah. >> But we cannot forget that uh the the let's say the

mals and all minerals >> and all this life in the planet. >> Yeah. So of course we are uh uh we are going through this uh this adventure. >> Yeah. >> But we cannot forget that uh the the let's say the consciousness inside of our psych >> that has the knowledge where we came from and towards where we are going is the self is not the ego. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. >> So that's what Joanna is calling us to understand that the ego must serve this higher self. >> Yeah. >> Must pay attention to this knowledge that it's within us. >> Yeah. >> So that's why it's so important Marca that and when you said about of of course the courage of the the hero. >> Yeah. So we can have we can think of that the hero myth has everything to do with the development of conscious consciousness here >> but it's also the development of the higher self because everything that we are learning here we are going to take with us. >> Yeah. the moral values, the beauty that we are able to create and recognize, the truth that we live, you know, all the high uh spiritual values that we can achieve. >> Yeah. >> Of course, our intelligence, but the intelligence that it's greater than only cognitive intelligence. You know, I still hope that when I get to spiritual realms, I will know much more math than I do. [laughter] I keep telling that that I do here because I'm awful in math. [laughter] >> But they say, well, you are going to remember that what you have already learned. So I hope guys that I, you know, will be able to learn. But what I wanted you cited Joanna and Joanna also says Martha courage is a byproduct of a specific feeling of love >> towards that in which we believe we wish for and we fight for. We wish and we fight. And she says that education for for courage means to develop aspirations of beauty. We are talking about truth and moral values to face the challenge of life. >> So you understand I I understand that. Let's see what you you think about that this because love is creation. >> Yes.

uty. We are talking about truth and moral values to face the challenge of life. >> So you understand I I understand that. Let's see what you you think about that this because love is creation. >> Yes. >> Love is the energy of creation. The energy of the source that we call God. Right. So whatever we learn the level we learn of love as they teach the teacher in um freedom writers >> that she was basically teaching all the teenagers to love themselves and to love each others and of course to love humanity uh like you know like all the examples that we have been um talking here. this and she as I remember the movie she never talks about religion in the movie. >> No no no not at all. >> So she was teaching spirituality very high level spirituality without even talking about religion because of course the teenagers maybe many of them didn't have any religion. They were rebellious against >> the adults. They had suffered a lot already but she was teaching all of that. So I think what we learn here this courage that we learn this um wisdom of our hearts that we uh connect through all the suffering that our ego um our egos go through in this life but it's kind of remembering and finding and even growing in wisdom right >> so I think the the hero myths myth of course I think Kemba was talking about development of conscious here in this and the ego and of course here in this um dimension >> but we could extrapolate let's say >> to the wisdom and to the and to the courage of our higher self because challenges >> are going >> you know evolution is this adventure >> yes >> I still want to meet you in this today's ship in the [laughter] spiritual dimension. >> We will. But uh one of the things that I was thinking um and I would love to to hear your thoughts on this is in in the movie of course the teacher Aaron um embodies this uh archetypal journey of the hero's journey right if you think about it because she is faced with right just in her face right uh the same level of uh violence and racism and apathy,

um embodies this uh archetypal journey of the hero's journey right if you think about it because she is faced with right just in her face right uh the same level of uh violence and racism and apathy, indifference that the students were suffering, right? That's all their language. So, she encounters the expression of the experience of the students and um her choice as a hero is not to surrender. Her choice is to to exemplify courage in a a beautiful type of courage in this case which is the courage to believe in her students their worth, their ability, their potentiality to transform their lives, right? But also in doing that they transform her. So it's a a beautiful um narrative here but uh I would say this is my interpretation here uh and I um just like Campbell's hero uh Aaron crosses thresholds right she keeps crossing and she goes from fear and very timid very you know very young and inexperienced with no voice but she she she goes from that space of fear to a space of faith. Right? I would even say she had to face so much frustration with the school system and how they perpetuated the that uh earlier assumption or hypothesis as I put it that those kids who are or were at risk would never amount to anything. But she will, frustrated as she was, she moved from that space to a space of hope. And like you said, she did um discover and expressed and um um enacted or executed on the idea that love is indeed the the the ultimate source for courage. And I I just love it. and I would love to to hear from you before we close our our episode today. >> Yes. I was listening to you, Martin, and thinking about um u the shadow and light duality. >> Yeah. >> Because um I I was coming to my mind some scenes of the movie. >> Yeah. Um she she was seeing uh of course she was afraid in the beginning of the shadow that she saw she was surrounded by shadows. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and and they were acting let's say in the shadows like uh if I'm I'm equal to anyone if I uh I'm afraid of being hurt then I

e shadow that she saw she was surrounded by shadows. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and and they were acting let's say in the shadows like uh if I'm I'm equal to anyone if I uh I'm afraid of being hurt then I will hurt. That is very basic >> to protect myself. So if the people are mean to me, I will be mean also. And so you it's kind of a vicious circle, let's say. >> Yeah. Yes. And I'm so I'm I'm I'm always so sorry for you know leaders of any kind and people that are have the responsibility to to help others uh when they cannot recognize that they all of us have imperfections. >> Yeah. Doesn't matter you know our position in life or anything on that we we are all brothers and sisters as Janna says developing evolving here in this adventure in this big school our uh beautiful planet and learning to be better to evolve to you know [clears throat] to evolve in consciousness spiritually speaking. So if we have imperfections all of us >> if we have our shadows we can say right we also have our light >> none of us are pure light we are not because otherwise we would be very high in the spiritual dimension it's not the case we know that because we still have wars we still have uh violence and things like that um so that's the scale of moral values and that it doesn't matter. It's nothing is justified. We know you know that we should love each other. We should love ourselves and we should love and this love is like know thyself, >> know God, know the transcendent, know the other. know is to love to respect to be intimate in spiritually speaking to >> I love it [snorts] >> feel we are all fishes in this beautiful ocean of love so we are kind of still having a lot of difficult but we are in a spiritual awakening so in this light and shadow aspect of all of us all of us how can you teach light you can only teach light when you face the shadow, right? It's like Luke Skywalker fighting [laughter] Darth Vader. >> Yeah, remember another movie that we have already talked about, right? So,

light you can only teach light when you face the shadow, right? It's like Luke Skywalker fighting [laughter] Darth Vader. >> Yeah, remember another movie that we have already talked about, right? So, how could he bring his father back to the light? >> Because he embraced his father with love saying that he would not fight him. >> Yeah. Not in that way that even the father wanted because he wanted to bring Luke to the dark side dark side of the force. >> So it's the same thing with the teacher. She saw the light. She saw the the shadow. She was afraid in the beginning as you said because our own shadow connects to >> other shadows. Oh that person is awful. That person is this and that. And I'm saying that I am only light. So I can connect I can project onto others the shadow aspects or I can say well that person is showing uh um her or his shadow aspects but she also has or he also had uh they have light um and maybe I can connect to their light. So I think this spiritually speaking is the process that the teacher said. She said all of us and she understood that all even the pearls as you said of course >> she was kind of I am this person and I'm this and that but of course I think she learned that she didn't have to you know to have that persona that uh so you know so respected because persona is part of the ego and it's not it's only a part and it's not everything that we are And even it's not many times our true self. Right. So I I just wanted to finish that uh saying that we need to teach and to educate ourselves. >> Yeah. >> To educate our children to this responsibility and to this understanding to be empathic and and compassionate to other people's difficulties. Let's say shadows >> to understand that we all have some and we are here to learn with each other to bring more light to the world not more shadow please right we have had enough shadow so let's work with our shadows and find balance because it's all about balance and also I wanted to say uh very quickly that Joanna calls us to consider

e shadow please right we have had enough shadow so let's work with our shadows and find balance because it's all about balance and also I wanted to say uh very quickly that Joanna calls us to consider to end this episode that uh many of our sufferings come from the conditionings that we all have. >> Yeah. >> And to improper education, she says when she is analyzing suffering. So we have a responsibility Mars and everybody else to teach better ourselves to educate ourselves better and to educate our children in all of this that we have been talking today. >> Love it. Love it. Love it. I I think uh uh so many nuggets of of um wisdom in in today's conversation. So thank you. Thank you, Na. I I just uh think that uh all of that we're talking about and we are misguided, right? We we think uh that courage is born out of and we put a a like a cartoon like an image of whatever. But it's not born in battlefields. It is really born in our hearts. And uh it is born when we decide to keep on loving, keep on believing, keep on walking, right? And the path is steep, but we're going to keep on going. So uh we we close today by just asking ourselves what is what is the call to courage that life is presenting to me right now right it's different for each one of us but let's just for a moment reflect what is it and how can I respond to it with love and with faith just like this young teacher. But uh uh we cannot leave without saying that Joanna reminds us that courage dignifies the soul. And with love as our guide, we can really transform every challenge that we face into a step toward not the shadow to the light. So thank you everyone for being here. Thank you. What a lovely time we spent together. For those of you who are perhaps uh listening to this podcast for the first time, please note that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based as uh we peppered with her name with the works by Joanna D'Angelus and I do hope that uh this was insightful for you as it was insightful

te that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based as uh we peppered with her name with the works by Joanna D'Angelus and I do hope that uh this was insightful for you as it was insightful for me. I want to also thank our sponsors, Masandu Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council and Amy Brazil. And that organization is the Brazilian arm of the Medical Spiritist Association. Thank you everyone. I appreciate and hope to see you next time. Thank you. >> Bye-bye. Thank you.