Ep 120 - Psychology and Spirituality | Is Society Lost in the Noise?

Hello everyone. Welcome to Psychology and Spirituality, a bridge to a better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore the intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result, we capture timeless wisdom containing both fields. I would like to say welcome all of you who are here today and I'm really excited to have you here with me today as Ann and I and Sinclair and I will dive into a topic that is not so easy right Ann and it touches yes and it touches the the heart I believe of modern existence which is the idea of the overwhelming pressures of contemporary life and the existential crisis that many of us I would say probably most of us are facing today but Ian how are you doing I'm doing fine thank you Marcia do you have any any any thoughts that you want to bring to us before we we talk no well I just think like existential crisis I mean this is a difficult topic but it is a topic that is um present in everybody body's lives whether they uh recognize it or not with that name. Yeah, indeed. Indeed. So, uh to me um there's a question that uh that comes to mind around this topic, right? And I'd love to hear from you maybe. And have you ever felt like something just doesn't feel quite right? No matter how much say success, material, u professional, uh, familial success you achieve or even how much you are plugged right into the world around you. And what I mean by that is you're you are an influencer. you you have a lot of power. Um have you ever felt like that Ed? Not that I have a lot of power or that I'm an influencer but uh I think that sometimes um well I would say that society our culture at the moment our western culture is very noisy and that sometimes I get caught up in the noise as well and I don't hear myself anymore. I lose and it's I was reading Joanna Deangelist and she uses an interesting um description. She says we might become like robots and with all the advent of AI and everything like that really important that we reconnect with our humanness of who are

and she uses an interesting um description. She says we might become like robots and with all the advent of AI and everything like that really important that we reconnect with our humanness of who are we why are we here what are we doing here are we on the right pathway uh or not and what makes us happy you know what what makes us tick as they say these are really uh useful things and sometimes in the noise we lose lose track of that yeah and it's Funny, we've been I've been pondering the the whole idea of what makes us human and for the longest time we at least me and we talked about what makes us human is our intelligence, right? And then boom, we are faced with this concept that maybe 20 years ago was just a a pipe dream. But now it is impacting just about every every part of our lives from our phone to our smart houses etc etc which is the notion of artificial intelligence as you mentioned and now we start at least I do start to see that it's really not about intelligence um around facts events data points but it's really all about that emotional intellig igence that Gardner uh introduced to us say 1980s I think mid mid 1980s when he he brought to us the concept of emotional intelligence meaning um our feelings our emotions right the the deeper aspect of our humanity yeah it's like saying that exactly and say we can understand things with our brain if you like with our intellectual mind but we can also understand things with our heart. Yeah. And not my description, but when somebody says when you look at a sunset, when you look at a new baby, when you look at a a starry night and you go, what are you doing? You are recognizing creation, nature, the divinity, and everything. And you're not recognizing that with your intellectual mind. You're recognizing that through your heart. And again our modern society we have overemphasized the importance of the rational brain and mind to create things to create machines to create things u to be the engineers of the industrial

ur heart. And again our modern society we have overemphasized the importance of the rational brain and mind to create things to create machines to create things u to be the engineers of the industrial revolution going forwards that affected everything in our society and we disconnected a bit from our heart as a less important part allegedly which is not because at the end of the day for us to be complete Human beings we need to integrate all our parts. We are not just the intellectual knowledge. We are also our heart. We are also our shadows. We are also the things we don't know about ourselves. We are lots of things and we need to bring it all together to be that complete human being. So with love, right? With love. With love. I love what you said. The heart, the rational side, but the unconscious but also the shadow. with love. Go ahead, Ed. It's like, you know, the spirits when they talk about progressing, if like if you were a bird with two wings, like one time you're flying with one wing and then with another, you can't. You need both wings to fly. Absolutely. Absolutely. One might be a little bit sort of more developed because you've been looking at it more sort of uh giving it more energy or or more attention, but you need both to fly. It's just that's just a symbol if you like but thinking that uh no part of us is less important but we have been focusing on different parts for different reasons and it's all good is just what it is so but not forgetting the the other parts of ourselves and and I keep thinking um not modernity or postmodernity but really the zeitgeist of today right this past 20 years So in in the third millennium, if you will, uh actually the second millennium, but the third the the 21st century, right? Um we we really have been pushed into the the notion of uh data points and intelligence. So the wing of rational thoughts and and the pioneering thought no longer pioneering as we may think about it. Uh the Portuguese or the Spaniards going to to

notion of uh data points and intelligence. So the wing of rational thoughts and and the pioneering thought no longer pioneering as we may think about it. Uh the Portuguese or the Spaniards going to to or the the the British finding places that were unknown in the 1500s 1600s, right? pioneering but pioneering the aspects of technology and pioneering the rational thoughts and rational constructs and uh we're coming to a point says it's it's good but there's a whole world that we're not yet discovering and that the whole world we could say here it's our humanity but I wanted to to to pivot maybe our discussion here right because when We when we think about it, we we find ourselves in with this notion um this disconnectedness that you mentioned. We come to this notion of uh perhaps a sense of emptiness, right? Or a sense of confusion or lack of direction. And uh the interesting thing here Ann is that the truth the real truth is we've never been in a planet as populated as we are right now. Right? We are we're busting at the seams. We are not alone. If you if you ever feel alone, you can just turn on whatever the device that you may want and boom, you get connected. But I I thought maybe we could explore together in the next few minutes um the importance perhaps uh to navigate through the so-called crisis, the existential crisis that is defining uh postmodern world. And by postmodern world, we're talking about 19 well 1900s, right? and and to now because over the past century um and we've seen so many amazing incredible advancements in my flights of fancy I keep thinking if we were to go back in in in time in a little machine and we would bring somebody from oh I don't know uh 1920 right and go back maybe not even 20 years ago, maybe well 30 years and put that person to say, "Hey, I'm going to fetch you the photo of a bird and I put a phone right that was in the early 1920s was just starting as to be brought up as a technology and there comes a effects image of a bird. It just the thought

o fetch you the photo of a bird and I put a phone right that was in the early 1920s was just starting as to be brought up as a technology and there comes a effects image of a bird. It just the thought about it is mind-boggling. Well, this is back then, but all this past uh uh past 100 years, there's so much advancements in sociology, technology, science overall. And uh the more those advancements came to us, the more we have expanded our understanding of the world. And it goes back to that magic word, right? The connection that exists in in all of us. If we think about it and I I'm I'm sorry if I'm talking too much but I'm I'm thinking here that uh let's just go back pre 2020 with the COVID 19 pandemic and immediately after that or during the pandemic how that event spearheaded the ease and the ability right the effectiveness of communication and um leveraging the virtual capabilities for just about everything. We're talking about education for children all the way to adult education, professional context, professional world in and overall human connections with uh I can call it this is not to talk about brands but Google talk zoom meetings uh uh Cisco web you know whatever there's so many webex right there's so many uh channels of communications today that it is dizzying because we we need to now say I need to talk to you via blah blah blah. But what's unfortunate here an is that despite all his achievements we are still today and John the Angels brings to us a commentary to that right when she she brings up the the notion of existential crisis. We're still today dealing with the aftermath of two world wars and the existential weight of living in this now society and you mentioned western society right but I could say mostly western society but it's really all of it and uh despite all of it we are increasingly truly disconnected and as I'm saying this to you I'm If you if you allow me in, I'm thinking of the uh 2023 movie Oppenheimer, right? It was directed by Christopher Nolan and it was

e are increasingly truly disconnected and as I'm saying this to you I'm If you if you allow me in, I'm thinking of the uh 2023 movie Oppenheimer, right? It was directed by Christopher Nolan and it was about the physicist, right, who played the main role in developing the atomic bomb during the Manhattan project. And the film really delves into Openheimer's life from his early years as a scientist to all the way to the leadership of the project. And later on he he had a pivotal role from a moral political uh perspective in really dealing with the personal consequences of creating what it was a weapon of mass destruction. And and um the movie isn't just about this historical event or historic recounting of the events. It it explored the themes of scientific discovery, the ethics right of technological advancements and in his case the weight of responsibility for being the person through which it it it materialized. And I just love it. I love it how it portrayed Openenheimimer as both brilliant but conflicted uh individual. and he grappled throughout the movie. Of course, uh I did not know him, but he grappled throughout the movie about this devastating power of the bomb that he helped create. And throughout the movie he he you know he uh discussed or dealt or led to to this to questions about what is his role and how his role is forever impacting humanity. So the overarching and I'm going to stop here but the overarching um message of Openenheimimer could be seen as perhaps what we're talking here which is a reflection of uh the dual nature of scientific progress right and while it can bring tremendous advancements for society it can also in that case unleash forces that are uncontrollable. able and in a lot of cases even ethically and morally ambiguous. So it's it's important for us to think about it because if you remember the horrors of Hiroshima right the event that uh in my opinion forever changed the world right to date we're we're facing with with political turmoil. The first thought

bout it because if you remember the horrors of Hiroshima right the event that uh in my opinion forever changed the world right to date we're we're facing with with political turmoil. The first thought that comes to a lot of people is who's the person with access to the button to kill us all. Right? So, uh politically it impacted buth spiritually, emotionally I believe uh those you know Hiroshima as the end result of the Manhattan project. that what happened then really really um impacted and left us perhaps without a sense of purpose. So I just wanted to know can we perhaps talk about uh uh if you have any thoughts about how the rapid advancements in science and technology can come or often comes at the expense of this deep connection human connection and spiritual grounding that we're talking about earlier. Well, I think that you can uh look at it like all scientific developments, they can be used for good or for evil. Um talk about you know um the Nobel Prize installed by the person who who invented TNT which was a blessing in terms of of engineering and building roads but then became a horror of making bombs. Anything can be used both ways in medicine. Fentinil is a fabulous anesthetic for surgery but yet it's devastating lives across the streets of many big cities. So we always have both sides to it. The problem is not with the product of science. The problem is with the human being. What is motivating us? And here comes in the existential crisis. Because when you think of of you know what is an existential crisis it is a moment when we stop and reflect and wonder you know what are we doing why are we doing it are we going in the right direction which sounds all very philosophical and deep and thinking that that's not me but you can have an existential crisis most people do when they're teenagers adolescents you question your life and you question your parents and your education and where are you going why are you doing it. What's everybody else doing? You do it when you get to

ey're teenagers adolescents you question your life and you question your parents and your education and where are you going why are you doing it. What's everybody else doing? You do it when you get to college, when you graduate, when you get married, when you get divorced, when you change your careers, when you're 40 or when you're 60, when you retire. Many times in life, although it might not come across like that, you do stop and think, is this it? Is this what I'm supposed to be doing? Am I going in the right direction? Am I happy? Am I healthy? You know and uh we often uh we do it in our own different ways and uh so it is something that we do and why do we do it because we have this uh inbuilt compass if you like that helps us stop and reflect where are we going you know what are we doing because our life on earth it's all depends of you know what perspective you take you think oh this is it one life and then you die and then That's it. That would motivate you in one direction. But if you think of yourself as an eternal being who has many lives, many opportunities and that you go developing bit by bit, life by life, then that make might make give you motivation in a different way. So we need to you can't impose philosophies uh ideologies um meanings of life. People can read about them. You can suggest them but each one will have to make up their own minds because we are all individual spirits and we are all uh motivated and molded by the life we've had the parents the culture what's happened to us what we've achieved what we haven't achieved all these things go molding us and then they will change the way we perceive things so we can be inspired by reading seeing movies reading stories of people's lives and M I could do that, I could change this or you know uh we can find um encouragement, motivation, but you can't impose it on somebody else. So we need to like kind of stop, reel it back and come back to ourselves because I love it. Yeah. Of each one of us. Yeah. Yeah. Know I love

ment, motivation, but you can't impose it on somebody else. So we need to like kind of stop, reel it back and come back to ourselves because I love it. Yeah. Of each one of us. Yeah. Yeah. Know I love it. Yeah. The the idea let's just it is too much, right? It's too noisy. Let's just stop. Yeah. And I would even say let's come back to ourselves. Yeah. Let's go back to what is really important. What what we need to do with our lives in and embrace that pioneering spirit that has led to discoveries in beautiful discoveries by the way in technology. But uh let's maybe embrace that sense of wonder but with that sense also that we are not alone right we are connected we are interconnected more than we ever uh can think about materially and spiritually speaking but let us just breathe and look right yeah not only connect to one another which is really important and maybe we should talk a little bit more about that also connected to nature. Yes. Yes. We're all part of it. And people I know people like say on a journey of cancer treatment or other disease. People say, "Oh, I walked in the forest. I was in nature. I went to the sea. I've made me feel so much better and just reconnecting that we are part of nature." And uh I I like to think of it, it's sometimes we feel oppressed by our own self-importance. And uh when we put ourselves in our place, we feel quite liberated. Because then we are not the center of the universe. Yeah. We are we are a component of the universe. We are all important components of the universe, but we're all components of the universe. We're not the center of it. Yeah. It's very it's very interesting that you say that because I believe um Joanna D'Angelos brings a lot of uh uh content in severs about that right and uh and uh and if we think about it that selfcentered right I am the world revolves around me no it doesn't but as a very uh as a baby and we reflect that even in adult lives that uh that very primitive or immature, childish way of looking at life. We do the same. The

world revolves around me no it doesn't but as a very uh as a baby and we reflect that even in adult lives that uh that very primitive or immature, childish way of looking at life. We do the same. The world is all about me. Don't worry about the other. It's all about me. How I think, how I feel, how I want more. And and I think it's it's quite interesting that from a Joanna the Angel's perspective, she she discusses that in interesting enough when she says this postmodern world and uh she references back to 1900s and and now the the 2000s, right? I it's the the the society that is disconnecting from the ego self access right we are we are we are not aware of the self with a capital S which is again you mentioned that to us a minute ago which is that immortal component of ourselves the spiritual the soul that It really um expresses who we are not the persona which is ephemeral. It is actually quite it's it's it's right a snap of a finger in in relative terms that this that we feel is the most important uh in in the most uh central aspect of our reality. It's just done. Let's go to the next one. So I think it's it's interesting what you're saying but uh you you mentioned something interesting with um I don't know if you want to go back to it but uh uh with cancer patients for example just by going to nature there is a that feeling of belonging of being part of the context of we're all connected gets us to feel better. Yeah. I mean uh I'm not advocating people shouldn't take uh their medication their treatments uh as prescribed and agreed but as an additional is to remember this is the existential Christ coming to remember who we are why we're here and even what might be the role of a disease in my life say it's a horrible thing no don't want you know it can't have any role no but everything in in in the universe has a a role that it plays and uh if we don't pay attention to it then it just comes up again until we to look at it and to say what is it teaching me why has it

o but everything in in in the universe has a a role that it plays and uh if we don't pay attention to it then it just comes up again until we to look at it and to say what is it teaching me why has it come to me and having this sense of we might not find the absolute answer but of inquiring and having curiosity to try to understand and to be okay with actually not having 100% an answer but think there must be something here for me to learn. Let me just be in it and not to run away from it. It's it reminds me of um when I talk about pain. Uhuh. So we we live in a culture nowadays where as soon as you have a pain, you got a headache. First thing some take it away. Get rid of it. I'm working. I can't have a headache. Or you know whatever pain you have, you got tummy ache, have something else, get it, get rid of it. Have no time for it. But if you if you think about your body, your body is a is a very wonderful uh organism. And when it sends you a message of pain, it's an email it's sending you saying, "Hello, something's not okay." Yeah. You just go delete. You're not paying attention. So then the sense again, so I just do it in a joking kind of way. But it says the pain that your body gives you, sends you, it's an impulse to tell you something's not okay. So even though you don't want to be the pain and I'm the first one to take the painkillers as well, don't get me wrong, but thinking, okay, so where's this coming from? Is this something significant or is it just something small? Does this mean that I haven't slept enough that my glasses are out of prescription or is this more serious, you need to stop and reflect and take responsibility for it rather than just getting rid of it. Yes. So in life if we if we change our approach to whatever's coming our way and thinking okay uh we can resolve this but is there some some something here for me to learn from this? Well, I I have to I have to say something and this is so silly and it's quite personal and but I just you you're talking about how

this but is there some some something here for me to learn from this? Well, I I have to I have to say something and this is so silly and it's quite personal and but I just you you're talking about how uh the you know headache or whatever uh I have something that's scratching what's going on and I'm not going to pay attention right but uh what uh triggered me if I may forgive me for saying that but uh I I just remember uh I'm married to someone who is uh he calls himself a problem solver, right? He's a deeply analytical type of person that deals with at work with very complex problems and it's up to him to resolve but in the relationship onetoone sometimes I come to him to talk about it and right he's already pro solving the problem or uh the analogy would be he's the the painkiller let me take away the And sometimes as as most of us women do, right? All I wanted was to take the moment to verbalize the problem so that I could reflect upon it, take responsibility for it and perhaps solve it or not, learn from it. But it's just very interesting because uh on a different note and and uh uh I hope he's not here listening to me by the way. But there is a a a wonderful wonderful wonderful uh organization. It's uh it goes by the the the threeletter acronym CVV which is the basically translate would be center for val value in life V for vida life in Portuguese and it's not just in in Brazil but there are many equivalent to this organization and and uh it is a network of volunteers that at any given time with a central number. Uh if you're going through a crisis, right, you can actually call this number, especially if you have suicidal thoughts and uh somebody is going to be there. Well, and we do have in America a suicide hotline. I'm sure in the UK you also have many different and now it's not just a telephone but number, but uh you can do by text, by email, etc. And there's this uh uh enormous number of people trained to to to be there to listen. But one of the things that I

d now it's not just a telephone but number, but uh you can do by text, by email, etc. And there's this uh uh enormous number of people trained to to to be there to listen. But one of the things that I wanted to bring to you is the fact that for if you ever get trained for in this case for the CVV which is the only one that I was trained it is so amazing u an because it uh it talks about uh mental pictures and I'm doing a square with an imaginary square here. So, let's pretend you call me and you start to say whatever. It doesn't matter, right? It can be the trigger can be a headache. It can be that you lost your job. The trigger can be that somebody doesn't like you anymore or broke a uh an engagement, whatever, right? But it's a source of pain. It could be that I'm addicted and I don't have money for my my fix. It doesn't matter. But one of the things that CVV does is at the minute that you're listening to that person, you have to train yourself to when you start seeing in that little imaginary box painting a picture. You have to destroy it immediately. Go away. And you keep talking and we keep painting the picture. Stop it. Because we do that. Our brains our brains are are trained to create a story, a narrative, right? We we and those narratives they unfortunately they are full of our own biases, our own, you know, all of our historical data points. And and when I put my hands to the back, it's like I keep thinking not just this this this uh day or year or decade. It can be my entire life or past lives, right? It's all rushing in as a new circumstances that somebody is narrating and I create without even knowing a mental picture which usually it comes with judgment. So the CVV says it's that's not the role. You cannot judge that person. You need to listen so that you can help that person unbburden that trigger that is leading to such pain that it can lead to a ultimate um you know uh ultimate uh impact to their own lives. So I think this is for us maybe a moment for us to realize that

unbburden that trigger that is leading to such pain that it can lead to a ultimate um you know uh ultimate uh impact to their own lives. So I think this is for us maybe a moment for us to realize that what are we doing with ourselves? Are we creating mental pictures based on societal norms, expectations, uh egoic constructs? Are we doing that based on uh what our parents expect from us, demand from us or are we being perhaps open to be in that box without any mental picture and be there and like you said in reflect, go inward and take responsibility, right? have a a a a response to it but not an automatically constructed response to whatever it is that we're going through. Yeah, it's really interesting what you're saying, Marcia, because it's not that easy to reflect about ourselves because we have what um they call like mechanisms of defense. Yes. Which is our a protection mechanism to hide us from ourselves. Is that our ego is so clever and right because it creates and it's it's not one or two but it's it's quite a long list of ways that we and our ego creates those defense mechanism to protect many times protecting from our finding out or betraying ourselves when we say this is really a mask that you're you need to get rid of it, right? I I I love the notion of defense mechanism because it's it's quite uh almost uh the play of you going for therapy and a therapeutical session is only as effective as you the patient betray yourselves. Right? When you betray yourself, then you start to move on beyond the carefully constructed uh social mask that we all have to to say, "No, no, no. I'm good. I'm good." But go ahead. I think I interrupted you. My apologies. No, no, that's okay. I I joke I think it's like sometimes we believe our own PR, you know. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. It's It's everybody. Yeah. It's all about the image, the best click, the this and and it's and it's okay because um not being judgmental. It's like everything is a phase and just like when we are growing up and we we

ody. Yeah. It's all about the image, the best click, the this and and it's and it's okay because um not being judgmental. It's like everything is a phase and just like when we are growing up and we we have a phase of of being children or teenagers and uh we become not to be caught out, we lie. And uh it's that famous picture, you know, of the child with the broken cookie jar, nobody else in the kitchen. And the mother says, "Well, who broke the cookie jars?" Like, so don't know, you know, it's not obvious who it is, but we are sometimes like that. We are saying we don't know who broke the cookie jar when we It's so obvious to any adult and we we have the broken glass with us, right? Or the bowl the the bowl is right with your hands. Little hand like I don't know who did it. I didn't do it. Yeah, exactly. Or the face full of chocolate. going to say I don't know who chocolate and so sometimes I I I refer to this in most of my talks because it helps me thinking of ourselves as spiritual beings on a pathway of evolution who are still very close to the beginning of that journey still very much like children and the higher spirits our guardians and things being more like the parents you know uh spirits who are further along the journey they have patience and love towards us and then if we s go oh my gosh this is really embarrassing I'm like a child you know with the chocolate on the face but we need to love ourselves as well and accept that this is just of the phase of evolution in which we find ourselves this is characteristic this behavior in a child characteristic so what we want to do is saying okay I I have the these behaviors which um it's maybe it's time for me to put a little um of action into it to to change these things. And one of the things that you need to do to change that is to have courage, to have moral courage. Yeah. And courage to know that you you you will still be loved. Yeah. And and it's okay to make mistakes and to get it wrong. And if sometimes we get it right

s to have courage, to have moral courage. Yeah. And courage to know that you you you will still be loved. Yeah. And and it's okay to make mistakes and to get it wrong. And if sometimes we get it right just by chance and it's it's all part of the journey of the pathway. Yeah. And when you lose the fear and then you say okay maybe if I if I make a decision it might impact others and you talked about uh open and how his decision impacted so many others. Uh that is really really tough when you're making decisions that impact your family if you're a parent or you know uh if it impacts that company where you work and all the people who who buy that product you have to think about the consequences of what you do. But if you're thinking about personal stuff and let's say you're thinking okay I for example say I catch myself for example lying about silly things if I lie about silly things do I also lie about bigger things and if I lie to myself why is that why do I need to lie to myself why do I need to pretend you know and then you can go unraveling it not with a sense of chastisement or persecution or judgment but more with curiosity. Yes. With um trying to get to to understand where is this coming from? Why is it like this? Let me see. Let me see. Let me see. And you can when you start to unravel some of these things, it can be very liberating. Yes. Yes, because like you're saying about societal norms and we are constrained and forced if we want to be well adjusted citizens if you like. We behave like the herd, you know, we want to do like everybody else and sometimes we might have to make a decision to make to behave in what we thought think might think is an ethical way and it's slightly different to what everybody else is doing. Yeah. Then you need the courage to be slightly different. I I love what you're saying and I think uh for all of us here um and it's it's important to to think about what does it mean to have courage courage to to do the ethical way courage to have curiosity and and I I call it

e saying and I think uh for all of us here um and it's it's important to to think about what does it mean to have courage courage to to do the ethical way courage to have curiosity and and I I call it you call it unraveling but uh I call it this pioneering self-discovery right which is It's going to unravel. I have to Have you Have you ever um had a a fish tank? Yeah. And Right. So, when as kids we had fish tanks and they're beautiful, but every so often you have to clean it, right? The bottom of the fish tank. And what happens by whatever means that you do it uh and there are many tools out there first as you you you're going through the pebbles it gets cloudy right it gets muddy in some case gets dirty to then go back to the filtering and and and getting all those uh um the the the the debris of uh a group of fish live in in a small uh aquarium. But I think life is like this. We we we have to have courage to to go through if not forever but for a small period of time to unravel to to be chaotic to be dirty if you will so that we can with curiosity and intention to start to to address and in the case of the aquarium we clean the water. We remove the debris. But in in case of us, what is it that we are uh hiding behind those lies, right? Or those masks. What do we need to do? And why do we have so much pain in some cases? Have the courage to ask ourselves, is it even proportionate? My response to what's triggering the pain point, for example. Um, but that sense of love and curiosity, it's almost like childlike, if you will, because we're talking about how how early in our real immortal journey as a spirit, how early, how in the the very beginning we still are. Therefore, it's okay to be childlike and and deal with all that we're going through with that sense of uh of a pioneer or curiosity or looking at it uh with with the notion of um what is the impact of my decisions, right? Yeah. And uh one of the things that Jean says is exactly that that in order for us to mature psychologically

y or looking at it uh with with the notion of um what is the impact of my decisions, right? Yeah. And uh one of the things that Jean says is exactly that that in order for us to mature psychologically and spiritually is this this growing up of taking responsibility, we need to be able to to see ourselves as we are. Mhm. that uh at least um maybe u I can't say not everybody but a lot of people will have been affected by perhaps many lives of the teachings of the church where if you lied to hell. So you don't want anybody to know that because maybe then God won't even know that either. So so so it's part of our baggage, right? And there's this conditioning that you have to do this otherwise right and the punishment is super severe. You go to hell. I mean I don't I don't believe in hell nowadays but perhaps you know in the previous life or even early in this life that might be something oh my gosh this is really serious. So yeah, you start off by instead of admitting and learning and and taking responsibility and making amends of hiding things and then that's not very healthy because eventually everything you go hiding it's you know you've hidden it although even if you forget but it's there under the carpet as I say in the shadow and things that are there will will come out will come back out you can't hide forever and that is is like this constant um what uh threat that your hidden things might come out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I can uh I keep thinking, right, and and maybe I've been watching too many movies, but uh but I keep thinking that uh uh if I were to be a criminal, right, which I'm not, but if I were and I got away with something, I I can only imagine what is the life of someone like that like, right? It it's it you just have to keep looking. What did I do? Did I It's almost like uh Isaac Azimov there is a one of his books where he talks about this this person that accidentally killed somebody and it was an accident. So he could just call the police, right? This has happened. Come here. And

v there is a one of his books where he talks about this this person that accidentally killed somebody and it was an accident. So he could just call the police, right? This has happened. Come here. And it go through the the judicial system, etc. But no, he can get away with it and he goes into a spin. It's a really interesting little uh little book, but he keeps cleaning and cleaning and he keeps cleaning and no no did I touch this clean because of fingerprints. And he does this to a point that he actually gets caught because he could not extricate himself from the scene of the crime. But anyways, I I I I I this this is just pure fiction, but I thought it's interesting. Do we do that? Right? Do we do we fall into this spinning uh you know fixed ideation that you're trying to get away and you try to protect this re you know references again the idea of those uh defense mechanism that are brutally created by your your own ego right our own ego as a healthy ego it it creates that to protect ourselves house from others. And the problem is that we don't really know the how liberating it is to be truthful, to be frank, to embrace all of our uh immature type of uh activities, be it from a spiritual maturity, psychological maturity or physical maturity, emotional maturity. Right? But I wanted to I know we're almost at the end um of our time together here, but I want us to to to ask you is there anything and before we say goodbye that we could perhaps celebrate as a as where we are in in in the history of humanity as a positive consequences. Is there anything that you can give it to to me and to everybody who's with us right now? Well, I do think I mean at this time in in in humanity, yes, we have time to be stopping and thinking about our existential crisis because the technology has given us time. So, we don't work well majority of us don't work at the same level that people in the 19th century used to work. Yes. talking about the workers where they work relentlessly like a piece of

en us time. So, we don't work well majority of us don't work at the same level that people in the 19th century used to work. Yes. talking about the workers where they work relentlessly like a piece of machinery and you exhausted, you eat and you go back to work and you're exhausted, you eat, you go back to work. You don't have time to stop and think about things. Nowadays, we all have um in general obviously exceptions uh more u flexibility. We don't take so long to make our meals. We have more time. We have more time. What do we do with the extra time that technology has given us? Yeah. And that is the time that we could use exactly to be reflecting on our existential crisis and the meaning. What is the meaning of our life? Where do we want to go? What do we want to do? Do we want to change anything? Are we happy? Do we need to reconnect with nature with other human beings? Because technology is great and here we are on technology connecting across the Atlantic Ocean. Yes. But it's important to give a hug to have human touch because we are still in a body a human body on this planet that requires human contact. So if we feel you know social anxiety and start not wanting to contact other people just think about where is a safe place where you can go and have contact with a friend because this is really important as well. So it's finding the balance and using this wonderful opportunity which is this complex time in which we can contribute positively and actively towards our own maturing and development because progress is inevitable. We shall all progress whether we like it or not. But we can also contribute to our progress so that then we are moving in the direction of of the progress. And it's I think you know just remembering the little things in life. The morning light, the stars, the moon, the mountains, the trees, the sea, the birds, the bees, the flowers, whatever makes it for you. If it's fall or it's uh you know springtime, just the wonder of God's creation which is so

rs, the moon, the mountains, the trees, the sea, the birds, the bees, the flowers, whatever makes it for you. If it's fall or it's uh you know springtime, just the wonder of God's creation which is so beyond us and of which we are an important part. But we are not the creators. We are a part. Absolutely. Absolutely. Before we leave, J do you want to leave anything um to us? Final words. I ask permission. I just wanted to read a little message if that's okay. Of course. Of course. So it's from the book child of God by the spiritual energies whom whom we've been referring to today obviously through developer Franco her medium and it's it's called chapter 17 and it spoke to my heart it might speak to yours or it might speak to somebody you know and then share it with them if that's useful and it's called God knows there are different moments in your life when engrossed in problems You feel ignored and think nobody knows the troubles you bear. God knows. Sometimes you may feel desperately unhappy and totally deserted. Still, you will not be alone. For God knows. God knows the reason for your suffering. And when in deep anxiety and abused and detracted by slander, you wish to abandon your task, put your faith in God and wait. God knows why this must be so. surprised by a cruel fate which thwarts your most cherished plans. Do not give up your yourself to revolt nor despair. For God knows what is best for you. Crucified by a disease of unknown cause, bow your head in prayer and wait a little bit more. For God knows your disease is a path to future happiness. God knows everything. Just let yourself be guided by him, seeking attunement to his mercy and wisdom. Do the best you can and leave a trace of light along the road you travel. For such is the attitude of the one who has put him or herself in the hands of God and whom in God shall progress. God knows. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Ann. I I really appreciate those words of Joanna D'Angelus. And uh we have come to an end of our time today. Thank you.

ands of God and whom in God shall progress. God knows. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Ann. I I really appreciate those words of Joanna D'Angelus. And uh we have come to an end of our time today. Thank you. Thank you so much for you an and for all of you who are here who have joined us this conversation today and we do hope that this conversation has uh brought some inspiration for you to reflect upon your own journey and until next time stay curious and I would say stay loving compassionate and keep striving for the deeper truths within. But if this is the first time that you're here with us today, please note that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna Danggeles. And uh we do hope that you're able to perhaps expand a little bit of your own spirituality concepts by juxtaposing them in this psychological lens. Thank you so much an and thank you sponsors Manel Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council and Ammy Brazil who is the Brazilian arm of the medical spiritist association. We'll be back next week with another episode. Until then, thank you and stay tuned. Bye everyone.