EP 82 - Emptiness

hi everyone welcome to the psychology in spirituality a bridge to Better Life discussion I'm your host my name is Marcia trano and with me is my co-host J corn go jar hi it's so good to have you here with me again yeah go ahead oh no hi Maria and we're here together to to talk about uh this issue that we can call emptiness we can call loneliness we can talk even uh this existential void that so many of us are feeling today but before we get started in our conversation I wanted to just uh tell you welcome you if especially if this is the first time that you're watching our program please note the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna d'angeles and we're here to offer safe space for all of us to to just Ponder to confront and compare and even expand our own spirituality Concepts from a psychological lens so that we're able to look at it with better insights actionable tips and perhaps even uh real world advice for us to feel better to have a better life note uh that this program is sponsored by SE organization among others there are the TV monum the United States spiritist Federation the uh International spiritist Council and Ami Brazil for all the organizing bodies thank you um please note that uh if you have any comments any questions any thoughts uh feel free to to put your notes your comments in the chat window and we will address them perhaps at later program if not today but just let's let's talk about emptiness I I understand that the Victor Frankle the Austrian neurologist he's a psych he was right psychologist philosopher and most important he's mostly known as a holocaust Survivor he um introduced the term existential vacuum and uh this term right uh is here to describe a condition that people you know who for whatever reason they cannot find meaning in their lives and because there's this void this emptiness in terms of meaning uh they are really prone to to experience boredom emptiness loneliness there's a there's a lot of uh uh feelings or

ning in their lives and because there's this void this emptiness in terms of meaning uh they are really prone to to experience boredom emptiness loneliness there's a there's a lot of uh uh feelings or emotions that attack attached to this according to Victor Frankle thought process and uh he specifically says that the feelings of boredom leads to distress right so just this concept to me is quite interesting because while Victor Franco for example he was talking in in in some of his books he talked about the the observation that many people many of us for instance there com Sundays and we don't have to go to work you have extra time and he noticed that they are not busy but at the same time they don't take this this opportunity to be comfortable with themselves to perhaps even contemplate the meaning of their lives as an opportunity to feel better right and Joanna the Angeles um I love it that she especially addresses this issue in my most favorite book by the way existential conflicts where she devotes an entire chapter to it and later on and I I I always love to to think about it uh a significance of the publication but later on she focused an entire book right empty lives on it why did it talk about the date it's because it was published empty lives it was published the day that the World Health Organization declared the pandemic right in 2020 right March 6 so I thought it was very precient of the the everybody who put this together you know just that it takes a while to get a book published but I thought how important it was that book at that moment but anyways this is just a side note um I I bring this up because there's so many facets of that empty life that a life without meaning and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it and maybe we can talk about uh root causes perhaps or some additional thought processes in this topic itself thank you Merc hi hello everyone welcome back to our program our podcast and um the the subject today I think it touched us all and uh first I would like

itional thought processes in this topic itself thank you Merc hi hello everyone welcome back to our program our podcast and um the the subject today I think it touched us all and uh first I would like to start saying uh something that um I I mentioned a few times in our podcast so when we talk about um the growing pains right um we look back we look at history and it seems that people at you know until maybe 17th century or so they didn't have any kind of you know problems with it existential void and it seems to be more specifically something that came after the um U the Age of Enlightenment the a technical re Revolution all of those things 20th century 21st century like we are now and uh the the way that we Spirit it is that since we are an immortal beings and we go through you know this process as you know of of maturing the spirit going through stages of maturity uh we will be experiencing different things so what was um suitable for me during my the the age of the spirit during this infancy is no longer suitable now that I'm growing that I'm going going into the an age of adolesence where we want to explore the world we want to know more and one of the Angeles in the book U actually existential conflict she she even mentions something about you know because of all this uh Industrial Revolution technological aspects Etc we would think that we would have much more time to to to devote to ourselves now we have machines that do those things thank God we have washing machines right and and all the other machines and we have water in the house I don't no longer need to walk I don't know how many miles to to reach for water so we had uh we have more time in our hands and many people do not know what to do with their times and um and some because of that they serve for you know fulfillment in things that are very transitory and are not going to bring them any kind of uh self-satisfaction so this is where she says here I'm going to read due to the pace of modern life

you know fulfillment in things that are very transitory and are not going to bring them any kind of uh self-satisfaction so this is where she says here I'm going to read due to the pace of modern life there are no opportunities for emotions to mature to make the correct choices for reflection and serious consideration individuals are devoured by the pleasure of seizing a lot and only retaining a little so now and the more we are exposed to things to uh Lifestyles to objects to to possibilities the more we want we long for those things yeah that are not going to be fulfilling necessarily because uh they uh have an name to please the body the sense and not necessarily the individual as an immortal spirit I don't know if you would like to bring something no no no yeah no I'm just thinking out loud because uh what you're saying here and yes Joanna you're spot on right uh you can link um several aspects of material development of humankind including Industrial Revolution ution the Age of Enlightenment and uh um Victor Franco even connects with World War II right so it is like there is this this world what is this world after we live through and this is of course he lived through that and he saw the oh the extreme cruelty and atrocities and he would say how can you reconcile a a life that has meaning in this type of environment and then he says no no it's important so he himself observes and he he excuse me he brings a Counterpoint to that um what I I was Finding interesting because what you're saying um with this lack of maturity um and the seeking of perhaps Pleasures or something I I'm wondering J if this is this directionally um we in our you know infancy of our spiritual growth if pleasure and of course survival instincts were what pulled us into the direction that we are today right that was the the main uh Force driving us to to be what we are today and we're talking about uh feeding ourselves taking care of our young etc etc just cely uh uh instinctual type of uh uh activities that you see in your

n uh Force driving us to to be what we are today and we're talking about uh feeding ourselves taking care of our young etc etc just cely uh uh instinctual type of uh uh activities that you see in your pet or animals right in the wild but I'm wondering if at that point now as you said we come to our uh your spiritual youth right our adolescent uh stage uh metaphorically speaking and we we need to explore but then we kind of I don't know if it makes sense to you but does it make sense for us as we go through this and and like what is driving us to explore and we end up exploring not from within which is the Paradox right not from within not from finding the Divine spark that is inside all of us this God within the the self right with the U uppercase s uh instead of I don't know I I I I need to explore but I don't know where so I'm going to explore with things that are again very sensorial in nature be it parties and uh I don't know uh even falling for Addictive behaviors and by a tide I can say drugs alcohol Etc or addictive behavior right uh workaholism or shop the shopaholic in all of us all of those addictive behaviors because we don't find that uh uh the senses no longer fulfill us but we haven't found in us the the appeal or the mechanism to look at ourselves does this make sense to you yeah absolutely and I mean it's if we had the answers for all of that imagine those are the answers that we are all looking for you know um some of us are not even aware that we are going through this exist existential Voyage we we we try to say oh it's because you know the things that are happening in the world or as my work we we're trying to find excuses uh to look for um the reasons why we are feeling this way on the outside and not on the inner in our inner self like you said so it it is easier for us just to as always we have been doing blame everything that is not okay with us on others so I mean I just will say you know is the world is my family it's my job it's uh you know now it's uh

er for us just to as always we have been doing blame everything that is not okay with us on others so I mean I just will say you know is the world is my family it's my job it's uh you know now it's uh crazy hot here in New York because it it's cold or you know we are always blam means circumstances people situations but not ourselves and here it's not a matter of just a blaming because we we we are not going again to think about bringing the whip in our hands and and and and and and start weeping oursel this is not about it this is about the blaming here what I I'm trying to say is actually you know to become aware to start thinking and uh really going to a quest yeah getting to know yourself just I love it week I it came to my attention again you know the that book that we have about a night in a rusty armor right I mean he has to go into a quest find or or or let's say to maybe to the way the story goes it's almost like you know to revive who he was more in a time of Innocence yeah where we we we let the world the circumstances the everything that is happening to you know to to to put us in this armor that little by little is going to be uh rusted in a way that we cannot remove it anymore so this is now you know us like you were saying before trying to go into this quest of getting to know ourselves better and this is is you know not being afraid of um um understand that we are all going to go through that this is where you know is the in we are in the between I don't like uh you know dolls or or or game little games or or cars or you know or dinosaurs anymore I W I want to become more of an adult but I'm still not there so as I still long for what it was uh what was the object of my attention and I still do not have one that I can say is is genuinely mine yeah I will be in the situation and I I I think uh in this transition we look for things because then you will say well every time I was sad let's say or or or go through any kind of struggle my parents would buy me a toy or something like

I think uh in this transition we look for things because then you will say well every time I was sad let's say or or or go through any kind of struggle my parents would buy me a toy or something like that okay or I lollipop or something like some kind of compensation now we go for compensations and compensations in this that will momentarily bring us a sense of happiness and being connected to the world may be what you were saying before very bad choices like excess of alcohol drug addiction and or whatever right whatever is a your your drug of the day the the the drug dour if you will yeah yeah can I can I say something and and just had it it's a little off topic but uh it's it's I think it triggered my my thoughts here um not so long ago I I just went to a lecture and in the lecture which has nothing to do with anything we're talking about it was a about uh human resources and professional growth Etc and somebody brought up the idea of why and this is really gender based more than anything else why do so many women suffer from the so-called impostor syndrome right I I I'm here I I got the job j i I have all of this but I don't feel that I'm I I should be here so I'm going to fake it until I make it in this very u high level uh Harvard um uh professor and uh uh writer of many many books he says that it's exactly what you meant it's that moment that we are in between we are not there yet we are no longer what we were we're not there yet and um and this person mentioned that it was so important for us to to give us Grace to understand that those in between moments are important because they are again directionally right you are becoming what you're not there yet but you not you need to start to to to exercise a little bit like a a little lion cub exercise fighting with the the other Cub right until it can be ready to be in the wall by themselves the other point yeah go ahead just even think this again came into my mind and this is again something that I I say over and

e the other Cub right until it can be ready to be in the wall by themselves the other point yeah go ahead just even think this again came into my mind and this is again something that I I say over and over and over again and if you heard that already you're gonna going to hear much many more times the experience of the glass half yes half empty or half full right so uh in this transition like we were saying you know where I still do not feel like we were saying before I I I just passed from the young age the infancy stage to more mature teenager years but I'm still not in there and no longer I do belong there but we always forget that it I'm I'm just going through this in between phase yeah reach something else because I went to the through the other phase so this is a a positive aspect of looking back of course with that comes everything that I learned children cannot do that women cannot do that and you know you get my picture right yes those cultural cultural elements right we with all these restraints right all these ideas know this is not appropriate for a for a child or you are incapable of understanding this or this or that and and now I say well it seems that I I transition I I go through a different phase of in my life but uh of course every different phase every different stage that we go through is a a time of learning yes and uh and we we are going to build to build on top of what we have quired already so do not look back do not let you know oh because I was a child I'm always going to be a child or have present child behavior no that child taught me to do this and that I learned dur during this period you know this and that and now you know I'm going to expand and so look for our potentials yeah no love it love it now I wanted to to Pivot to another uh sideway comment and I I hope you forgive me J but uh do you I I know I'm sure you have heard the phrase uh the brain aborts a vacuum right and it just means uh that our mind the human mind tends to seek um stimulation

nd I I hope you forgive me J but uh do you I I know I'm sure you have heard the phrase uh the brain aborts a vacuum right and it just means uh that our mind the human mind tends to seek um stimulation inputs it basically does not like to to stay in this idle or inactive uh space for long and it also means that or implies that we do this is a natural tendencies right we do have this this tendency to to always seek out more information we're seeking out experience that's the the teenag US that you refer to and that we are constantly processing absorbing information in order to fill the gaps in our knowledge so what am I talking here I'm talking about the fact that like you mentioned just that more than ever and and um uh Joanna d'angel speaks to that in both existential conflicts and empty lives books right she she talks about the tremendous um improvements in technology frea us freeing our time from menial type of labor at home or at work etc but instead of us being very good about preserving our time we fill with something else it's it's a this potentially natural tendency to just let me f if if I have an extra let's say hour it's going to be filled and that hour may be filled in front of the TV in front binging some streamed series or it can be um watching I don't know Tik Tok or or or Facebook Instagram whatever is the new social media channel of the day with inputs that are just quick snaps but can absorb you for actually more than an hour so the question here that I I i' like to bring to you perhaps je is that this is almost a paradox right we are saying that uh on one hand we don't have enough time right we're so busy we don't have time and uh and uh we uh absolutely prefer to be busy but then there's this this Paradox that uh what is how can we do this how can we um address the invitation to slow down the invitation to to to have that uh uh it's the it's the the little story right the night in Rusty armor that you referred to to to be that night that actually uh understands that the armor

slow down the invitation to to to have that uh uh it's the it's the the little story right the night in Rusty armor that you referred to to to be that night that actually uh understands that the armor is Rusty and it needs to right to to to go in and and keep looking keep going inside to find ourselves and I just wanted to to perhaps have your thoughts on on that Paradox are we busy or are we not busy is this a natural tendency to stay busy or is it a natural tendency to slow down I don't know what are your thoughts well uh using the image of and the story of the night uh night in the rusty armor um one thing that we have to see and unfortunately this is what U the majority of us must do is that he had to be in a very dire straet situation to start doing something so he couldn't remove any parts anymore of the the armor so he couldn't feed he couldn't be fed he couldn't drink and um he started losing his family because he was becoming each time more oblivious to any kind of emotional connection so it was a matter of surv IAL and uh unfortunately up to this point um we are letting let's say life di dictates um a little bit what is going to be happening to us instead of taking control uh because we can take control and this is what Shana deangel says you know um the when we are facing this existential void or vacuum we have to take uh um possession of our uh capabilities bring back Sentiments of love and um a a and all it be going pursuit of prayer meditation solidarity fraternal affection all of those things that are going to fulfill us emotionally speaking spiritually speak speaking which is what what now the lack of is like you know this is the oil yeah you know to be to be able to remove the rust that existed in Us in terms of you know this lack of of um important emotions and and um I mean when we were talking about when are we busy and know for not doing anything I I I I myself I saw my I I I saw myself so much in that yeah because I I have to tell you um there are times that my brain is just

were talking about when are we busy and know for not doing anything I I I I myself I saw my I I I saw myself so much in that yeah because I I have to tell you um there are times that my brain is just exhausted yeah and um the the more I I may want to do something productive I I work with my my brain all the time you know and the you know the the works that spiritism and translations and this and that it's always the head the brain always always like that it's always comes up a point in the day that I my brain is exhausted it's not like Oh no just sit and then read a book okay I can read a book because I can't read but my brain yeah it's not absorbing yeah cannot absorb anymore so I go Beach watch something you know it's like you know it's removing it's it's releasing all the extra charge yeah or I can do something else I can go for a walk I can do something else but I mean so I think that at this point especially where we are is not that we are saying here we are not entitled to to times of leisure um but um you know we have to look for good choices right and uh and not just give ourselves to to the whole time to things that are unimportant and I was thinking you know some of you may say oh jar at the beginning of the the podcast that's something that you know uh we have too M too much time on our hands not me right let's explain that we may be you know doing a lot working a lot but what is behind that yeah are you doing that exerting yourself because of spiritual growth of or because this is what the world expects from you or because this is what is going to make you feel powerful or increase your wealth or how many of us choose wrong pro pro uh professions not really in accordance to our inclination that just because it's going to pay more and then I can buy more I can have more and everything always just U circling around material things and again we are not saying that this is wrong this is what we understand we have materal life we have to uh to take care of ourselves

more and everything always just U circling around material things and again we are not saying that this is wrong this is what we understand we have materal life we have to uh to take care of ourselves and um and we are entitled I don't know to even some extravagances but we are not just that and this is why she says you know be happy that you finally have a I mean Joanna J doesn't say that right I'm her award you have now you have a washing machine right a dishwasher you have a vacuum right that is notation vacuum you have vacuum you have all those you have an elevator that you don't have like myself I live in the 35 floor I don't have to go up and down 35 every day so yeah thank God we have all that we have the ACs the air conditioner that all of this but again um using our intelligence using wealth to provide all these uh things that we'll promote well-being to to human beings is very good it's very important but but at the same time because we are growing and because uh there will be this longing off our soul of uh understanding more you know when we were a child we couldn't understand many aspects of life but when we start growing old we want to understand more you know more uh you know deep things uh we want to know better about relationships right we wanted to know go know better about uh our influence in the world we wanted to understand why we are here and if it keeps on suffocating yeah getting into this Path of Knowledge of understanding of ourselves this is when um unfortunately the more we try to think about it uh or do something in the opposite direction the less we will come with results that will really allow us to feel fulfilled yeah and it it's a going back to Victor franker right his research uh through of course initial observations during the uh concentration camp through the World War II he saw those individuals that had a meaning in their strong meaning in their lives survived right where the whereas the others that were surviving just from instinctive basis of survival they

d War II he saw those individuals that had a meaning in their strong meaning in their lives survived right where the whereas the others that were surviving just from instinctive basis of survival they couldn't survive the horrors of uh those treatment at the time so he links exactly that emptiness in this case and meaning leading to all sorts of distress and and really um a lot of pain right a lot of pain um one of the things that I I I think um Jada is that um there is a movement right mindful meditation uh or being mindful being fully present without judgment in everything we do which is uh one way to perhaps to slow down and what I mean by that is um in this Society uh we we talked right we referenced two or three times already that we we are post industrial revolution and we are capitalist Society we are uh a society that you must produce to be able to even stay afloat and not to uh lose everything you have to have a job you have to produce and because of that it has conditioned our identification of who we are not by who are you but by what do you do right and we we end up really thinking of the meaning of Our Lives as the meaning behind the activities of Our Lives what do you do and those activities eventually they become very ephemeral um they become very Hollow uh they will be that Rusty armor right it just it's not what we need to to to live so um I think it's quite interesting if we start to think of that what do we need to do to uh start to change the Paradigm of identify ourselves as what I do but what I am and by what I am it goes right back to what you said right the beginning J that spiritual growth this is who you are the Mortal soul that you are the spirits that is evolving that is growing this is who you are and the sum of experiences should lead to to that continuous growth I don't know if I went too stray on this comment that's fine I I I think you know of course many of the things that we express here are our uh point of view uh we are always

to that continuous growth I don't know if I went too stray on this comment that's fine I I I think you know of course many of the things that we express here are our uh point of view uh we are always bringing uh you know also the knowledge that we have from The Works of the Joanna deangeles and the the psychology that we are mentioning uh psychiatrist psychologist is in the field where we are presenting our podcast but you see I I I think that sometimes you know uh there is a great risk yeah when we label ourselves by uh what the world values um it and of course you know at this point the world V values much more uh people that uh Works in in the field of what they feel is important yeah true it just came to mind again that beautiful example on the life of um Mother Theresa where she had uh she she she had an appointment with an inter interview that the man was going to come and interview her she he came and he was in the middle of the interview and she said I'm sorry I have to leave I'm going to to tell you this very quickly because I think many of you may know about the story already and um he feels really bad because he said you know it took a while for me to be able to have disappointment with her and how come she I mean we just started she just says I am sorry I have to leave and just left and but after you know his his heart Pride he said you know what I'm going to follow her because maybe he was thinking I want to know what is more important than me you right so he follows her and he goes through the the the the the streets of Kolkata and goes here and there and here and there and and she she she finally get to a place where there is a a pile of garbage and she she goes into the garbage and she finds a man that is about to die and she's able to you know to hold this man uh while he he he breaths his last breath on Earth and according to the journalist he says that was the most horrific Vision I had in terms I mean everything was such such a misery right there was all

uh while he he he breaths his last breath on Earth and according to the journalist he says that was the most horrific Vision I had in terms I mean everything was such such a misery right there was all around the man in the state of deterioration she jumping into that pile of garbage you know and uh he she comes back peaceful and he he he says to her I wouldn't do that uh not even for a million dollars and and she said neither would I I just did that because of love so this is what I I'm saying in terms the values right yes how many of us truly understands a Mother Teresa or a mother to is a like figure someone that dedicates to the well-being of others to that commit to do good works when they have fortunes and this or that or maybe when they have nothing like what's the her case so now I I if I let myself be the def finded by or label myself you know I'm I I have a value because I I hold this degree or certificate or disposition or not uh we are in big trouble because you know uh like Angel says in N she says that a a life without a well delineated meaning one that stimulates you energetic becomes makes you become a in a in a state of vegetation yes because you you may think that you are doing so much you know this and that but actually you are not doing what is essential for your survive it's like you know we under if we talk about food perhaps we are going to understand better right piles and piles of junk food but junk food is junk food it's not going to nourish my body yeah so I I may be even fat absolutely not starving well fed but not well nourished that's a good good metaphor this is the meaning this is what we are trying to say here when we do not nourish our souls we will feel this existential void we will feel that there is something me missing then we go to the refrigerator again and try to eat something else and the mindfulness by as an example I once I had great opportunity of watching uh a talk by TI nahan About mindfulness where say as many times because even when we eat we

nd try to eat something else and the mindfulness by as an example I once I had great opportunity of watching uh a talk by TI nahan About mindfulness where say as many times because even when we eat we are not paying attention to what we're doing so you your brain is not connected with what you're doing and there will be this emptiness and then all of a sudden you're hungry and getting sick how come I just ate one hour ago did you because your mind was not in it you were not following with your mind and everything and just to finish I I I recently had the opportunity to go to osit aich and um having read the book by Victor Franco and uh seeing everything that I saw there it's absolutely extraordinary what he did and how he still found a stren not only to help those to become a source of inspiration to all of those but to survive himself and then doing something about it uh because there we were before a lack of faith in everything lack of faith in oneself in God in our culture in everything and a being day after day redu it to a number you even lost your your name which is sacred to each and everyone so you you're no longer a person you're a thing and as this this uh how do I say Despicable thing that's where they I mean how can you maintain the sense of belonging the sense of being a child of God and having this source of you know or this power to go on and this is when he comes with you know men's search for searching for me and again are you truly putting your values or you know were you really spiritual religious and believing in life before because if you were no matter what no matter how hard the storm is you are going to face it and you are going to go out of Ed victoriously at the end so this is I think what no this is beautiful and I appreciate you sharing your experience at aitz right it's uh it's not for everyone by the way but at the same time everyone should should have that opportunity to to to do this to go through that and of course uh um understanding lives such as Victor

ht it's uh it's not for everyone by the way but at the same time everyone should should have that opportunity to to to do this to go through that and of course uh um understanding lives such as Victor Frankle that it it should be an inspiration to us or the life of Mother Teresa or many others that like those two have devoted their lives to something but they also found meaning on a day-to-day basis I just want to say that uh um for us to conclude our discussion today it's important that uh that we we really are courageous to not only understand that we we are all um uh owners of many many dormant potentialities right and and when we say dormant is because uh like the discussion of the Imposter syndrome right we're we're not there yet but it's ours it's within and that we should be able to be courageous enough to look for that internal God or or internal uh god with a small G um and and that's what makes us a person that is what makes us that uh that individual that child of like as you said J so uh let's see what we need to do because if the process is not automatic yet right that uh the driving force is not there yet because we are in transition let's look for what we need to do to make it easy make it attainable and mindful uh meditations is one of them um but uh just I already you mentioned uh prayer uh moments of reflection oh stop to have a cup of coffee or go for a walk anything without our mind just being completely over bur burdened by things to do worries to have anxieties fears etc etc because that's I'm afraid not a very well-lived life jar any final words before we say goodbye no just uh for us let's just keep going right we have going and uh we are receiving very good directives from Joanna deangeles and others so uh we are very grateful to all this and to the Franco for being the vessel to bring this all to us as well absolutely with that I to say see you next week thanks everyone Bye by