Ep 41 - Loneliness

hello everyone welcome to the psychology in spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Marcia trano and with me is my dear friend and co-host Jada corngold hi Jada good to see you here hi Marcia hi everyone good to have everyone here awesome but for those of you who have not been with us before this is your very first time uh listening or watching this podcast like program i' would like to to make a note right um our program which is called psychology and spirituality they have a they're really comprised of weekly talks and they're based on the works by Joanna deangeles they are here to offer you a safe space to confront yes confront to compare to correlate to expand our Notions of spirituality uh those Concepts as well as uh adding the psychological lens so that we can have perhaps access to insights tips reworld advice that help us lead a better life so if we consider how vulnerable we all are right if um if we think if it take a moment to to just observe uh the moment in the sense of what Humanity as a whole is going through there's a lot of pain a lot of suffering and we are going to spend a few minutes together Jada and I talking about this this big beast out there which is called loneliness we are indeed reminded that loneliness is this Universal Human Experience a bit like hunger or even thirst it is a natural feeling right but it's a something that triggers that signal that something is missing from our lives in this case human connection but before we start to talk um I would like to take a moment to recognize the organizations that are sponsoring this program and they are Amy Brazil the TV man Cino the international Spirits Council and the United States spiritist Federation and make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't done so if you'd like to check us out learn more and even get to other channels please come uh to our website www.sirius.com loneliness right and uh and I as I said before what we need to establish before anybody says anything

heck us out learn more and even get to other channels please come uh to our website www.sirius.com loneliness right and uh and I as I said before what we need to establish before anybody says anything this is indeed a universal experience it's something that we all go through unfortunately just some of us and I'm talking about us generally are more susceptible to say acute or chronic loneliness and uh it is important for us to recognize that there are uh subgroups of people those who are most vulnerable and they are the elderly or interesting enough college students right so individuals that are just taking on that next step from a very protected sense of home your your nest if you will and they leave and they are now establishing their young adult um a period of their lives and most of the time in a different city where they maybe not their own social network and most of the time very much Alone um there's another subgroup out there that is extremely vulnerable and those are so-called anyone who is a marginalized or at risk group and we're talking about perhaps those suffering from a terminal illness conf to a hospital bed or somebody who committed a crime and has been moved into a incarceration period etc etc so there's some of us that are especially vulnerable to this so-called feeling of loneliness and in fact I want to just thought before I ask your thoughts about it but I wanted to to bring some data points um there are and this is a study that was done uh the study's name is loneliness and social isolation as risk factors for mortality it's a metaanalytic review they state that those who are feeling alone and it's not really surprising but they their mortality rate the risk of death actually increases by 26% and uh before I bring more data points because I have a few J what are your thoughts about all this difficult uh living life as a a as an alone lonely being I think the subject today it's of such great importance because uh like you said we are all susceptible to to

are your thoughts about all this difficult uh living life as a a as an alone lonely being I think the subject today it's of such great importance because uh like you said we are all susceptible to to feel it and um I I would say that I would dare to say that perhaps everyone has has felt lonely at some point in time but I think it's important as well for us to make a distinction here from starters which is the difference between be alone and feel lonely yes because feel feeling lonely has nothing to do with um you know people that may be surrounding you you may be like like you mentioned for instance you know uh people that are in nursing homes or even colleges they are all the time surrounded by people but by people that not necessarily see them that not necessarily want to establish any kind of relationship with them that wants to hear about them right and other people that may be alone not all the time surrounded by people they may feel well with their position because they know that they have um uh truth and last lasting relationships for instance it may be a friend that you don't see that much but when you talk to the friend you know that is a a truly relationship it's someone that will be there for you it may be a relative a person that is closer to you so you don't feel lonely or whether you have um you know a particular inclination even to religiosity where you have the certainty of you know a Creator H you have a certainty of you know spiritual presence and in this sense somehow you may not be you know having a direct physical contact with those beings you feel that you are not uh uh lonely so this uh I I think it's is is very is a key point for us to establish because many people will say oh that person is always uh alone well I may be alone but I may feel very well with myself cor I have a you know I I love my books my paintings my stros or whatever you know having said that we are not encouraging here people to become recluses saying oh I suffice for

very well with myself cor I have a you know I I love my books my paintings my stros or whatever you know having said that we are not encouraging here people to become recluses saying oh I suffice for myself or i l myself so much no one is at my standard so I prefer to be alone no we are not talking about this and I mean is is just to clarify in case someone was thinking about that that we were encouraging you know this um not socializing like you said Maria it's part even um pivotal for our well-being physical health so so just to to uh if I will regurgitate a little bit of what you said just to make sure I understand on one hand we have been alone physically alone and that's that uh uh perhaps social isolation for one reason or another let's say I am this is just completely completely tious here I got uh a grant to go to say the Antarctica for a study there and I'm completely isolated but boy I'm not feeling alone because I knew the conditions and I was prepared emotionally Etc or maybe an astronaut Etc so there's the fact that you can be alone physically alone but the other which is that sense of loneliness and by no means we're saying we're make an apology for one one or the other right but if we keep working on the data before we talk about how does it impact Us and how what can we do to really counter to those negative aspects of loneliness uh Jada the data says that here in the US more than onethird of All American adults are particularly facing challenges um either uh because they're just lonely or they are going through a moment in time that is very difficult for them say examples could be I I lost a loved one or I all of a sudden have to deal with a some sort of a chronic illness uh heart disease or even mental illness cancer that puts me in a position to be alone and lonely vulnerable right and it's such that that this aspect of loneliness um those negative sides of it can really uh worsen those impacted by say depression anxiety or mood disorder or in most

ne and lonely vulnerable right and it's such that that this aspect of loneliness um those negative sides of it can really uh worsen those impacted by say depression anxiety or mood disorder or in most cases it's something that I am in my personal life going through is to seeing our loved ones going through cognitive decline right um and and they they have a very specific impact as that includes emotional but also physical their physical health that may lead to to many different things I mentioned before just s of from a data point perspective there are some marginalized groups there's some very vulnerable groups and I'd like to to bring here in addition to young adults we really should think about uh adolescence right those that youth that group uh from a youth perspective that are just coming to terms with their own voice and their ability not yet adult no longer child and how lonely regardless of the fact that they are surrounded by friends and and clicks and whatever but there is a sense of loneliness it's a lonely Journey for them and I bring them up because in addition to the other marginalized or vulnerable groups they are very prone to to you know to depression to substance abuse and very hard to say it even out loud but suicide and so there's all this this research being coming to term now with this crisis of loneliness right and I bring this up here because I want to talk about what Jonah d'angeles brings in her amazing book the integral human being uh it's right at the beginning I believe it's the fifth chapter that she talks about loneliness very specifically but uh uh it's this Reg I want us to talk about this this this Paradox of all paradoxes on one hand we've never as a society we've never been disconnected before right we are connected to thousands of people at any given moment especially if you're an influencer let's say and and in some case we we start counting in the millions of clicks for some of those uh very very famous people and and at the

people at any given moment especially if you're an influencer let's say and and in some case we we start counting in the millions of clicks for some of those uh very very famous people and and at the same time that we are so connected we are as a human race we are undergoing a terrible sense of loneliness and uh so I I I mention Jonah d' Angel's book because I wanted to to bring a small sentence she she says about loneliness that I want us to talk perhaps just but she brings the the sentence is lonely is the cruel Spectre from the landscape of fear right so just s what are your thoughts what are you what can we talk about regarding especially now as we we overcame the worst of the pandemic in 2020 through 2022 but uh we Humanity as a whole had to go through social isolation like never before and all of this we're we're coming out of it but we have seen the huge impacts of loneliness in general in society what are your thoughts oh my they are so much we have to to ponder about this subject you know for starters I would like to to point out that this book was written by Joanna de an in 1990 that's right which is before internet before all this social interaction media interaction that we have and uh I mean reading this uh chapter chapter five of the intergral human being is like you know being before a prophecy yes existed before but she's already talking about it and about the problems that it may it may lead us life for instance this um crazy search for fame for you know the 15 minutes of fame like India war you know used to to mention yeah and um but at the same time as we said before the difference between being alone and feel lonely uh we don't have to go to extreme like you know you're going like you said out of space but sometimes we see people people surrounded by people but at the end of the day they say I'm lonely because uh you know those are you know friends acquaintances companions but it's not someone that I feel really any kind of connection or that I feel it

e but at the end of the day they say I'm lonely because uh you know those are you know friends acquaintances companions but it's not someone that I feel really any kind of connection or that I feel it easy to open and you know uh share uh personal situations so uh a and I think that you know the the fear of being lonely um in um makes us not to be cautious in relation to friendship or to how we are connecting not selective at all and when I mean selective I mean finding people that are in tune with you right I'm I'm not saying good or bad or this or that how how can we judge but people that we have you know inclinations or okay good inclinations that may inspire you so like you know when we are talking about Instagram Facebook you just you know follow follow follow accept accept accept as friend you don't you don't know anything about the people that you are connecting with and that's somehow are the people today they are bombarding you with their ideas and in ainal level you are incorporating those ideas in your daytoday lives and sometimes you even will question what why am I doing that or this has nothing to do with me and it has to to to do with a post that you read and sometimes just is stuck in your mind yeah it's it's um it's it's even dangerous when we think about it it is it is the same effect of advertisement right I mean you keep on watching those things and then you say you know what I need a new cell phone I mean oh forget the cell phone just I need a pizza and I just had dinner right it's that type of a impact but I wanted to to bring something else because if we were to ask Vin ourselves uh this this hunger this thirst that loneliness is this something is missing and what is missing is that human relationship and you brought up something so critical yes I may have eight million clicks but do I have a human relationship right and if we go back a little bit further J if think about it um the human relationships are really the glue right the mechanism for me

have eight million clicks but do I have a human relationship right and if we go back a little bit further J if think about it um the human relationships are really the glue right the mechanism for me feeling well and that's what you're talking about we end up uh with a herd mentality right following and we're so bombarded with the same of the same that we end up uh building a behavior that follows the the created need in Society but why and if we think about why it's really our need for personal validation more than ever right the Modern Man and we're talking about you and meiaer and everybody else in this call we as modern individuals we live in a society that has created this this new way of working this new way of living that requires some sort of uh personal validation and if I think about it and I'm just going to do a little bit of fight flight of fancy here just if if you don't mind right so let's think about Society what is expected of society what is that Norm or I'm going to talk about here in the Square that I I'm building in my with my hands right what is the what is the mainstream versus outside of the mainstream and we come with this idea that you have to behave a certain way and and by behave you have to dress a certain way you have to to have a certain uh hairstyle perhaps or even a certain body type a certain age group uh and beyond that I even think about wit right uh a certain cultural bend the ability to eloquently talk about this or that and yes I got it let's go back to what about everybody else outside of the square right outside the mainstream if we think about it uh what about the those extreme introverted personality types or and you and I know about this J in terms of what we know from spiritism and sensitivity that some of us have so what about those individuals that are so sensitive that even a charge of negativity can really hurt you badly and if you think in terms of a purely material uh perspective what are their chances or success right how do they

duals that are so sensitive that even a charge of negativity can really hurt you badly and if you think in terms of a purely material uh perspective what are their chances or success right how do they create in this context of our life today how can they be equipped to have successful and or meaningful connections and I even go further just s you and I were not born in this country right and I just immediately sympathize with anyone it doesn't matter where you're from but anyone who has difficulty in even expressing your yourself through words right or or or ability to to express your ideas or create that environment that that the new social environment where healthy social interactions are there so we are really confronted with this question who are we and who are we if we're not inside the box and Beyond everything I said what about people that are perhaps Autistic or uh on the other Spectrum have ADHD or have suffer from anxiety disorder or are uneducated my goodness my goodness and Jada I think Joanna says stop Marcia stop because if you start labeling all of those our society's become the Society of those who are out outside of the box right we are indeed becoming more of the nonnormal and how do we become accepted or belonging or creating a sense of connection when perhaps we don't look alike we don't talk the same we don't speak the same lingual or or embody certain cultural aspects and I think uh it's really important for us to to perhaps talk about what what do we do or even why do we do it right yeah Marc we have to break the cycle right yes how far we are in a V vicious um cycle We There is pure pressure yes right that you feel since young age there is pure pre pressure that is the fear of not belonging and for whatever reason because you are not uh you know healthy enough because you you have some disability and then we are talking about the lack of inclusion and inclusion in each and everything inclusion of you know uh everything that we can think about because it's much more than just a

some disability and then we are talking about the lack of inclusion and inclusion in each and everything inclusion of you know uh everything that we can think about because it's much more than just a physical uh impairment right we um we talk about this being marginalized by Society because you know like you said the elderly they serve their purpose now you know I'm done with you and you're just going to be be a burden there is the problem and of you know education in the home on how parents really are respecting their children and Adolescent as Immortal spirits and with all that in mind I was thinking about the movie Barbie oh tell us about I haven't seen it yet go ahead but it's it's very much about what we are talking about all of a sudden she sees herself different from that bubble that she lived and now she's not going to be accepted anymore she doesn't fit anymore but she doesn't know how to live in a different world and doesn't even know that there is a different world and how can can this be so in many circumstances because of this fear of uh loneliness yeah it's when we go into building personas right that I mean when I am with a certain group I have to be like this okay so you wear your mask and just go and when you are in different group and a different thing but then you know you go uh to parties After parties to meetings going out with let's call it friends but it's not fullfilling because in none of the cases you you feel that you can be yourself yes so uh and sometimes that way that's the reason why we say sometimes people that do not have that many people not the reclus we are not again inclining anyone to be become reclus and of d'angeles in this book Empty lives in chapter six she talks about importance of coexistence yes of you know what we have to gain and to learn from each other and how we can serve one another how can you we help one another so this is um this is it we the Law Society when we talk about the moral laws at the spirit's book right uh so there there is no

other and how we can serve one another how can you we help one another so this is um this is it we the Law Society when we talk about the moral laws at the spirit's book right uh so there there is no question that we need one another that we depend on another and that we are a network of spirits not only there are real here in the Physical Realm but also in the spirit realm and uh the more we understand that and the more we look for you know uh individuation right to really integrate our elves to start analyzing who we are yes what we are doing here and uh and knowing that it's not quantity that is going to fill the void but only quality it's the connection right J it's really the the bond that that only comes with dep you're going to look for more substantial uh things to do in relationships and in this way it's like you know uh you mentioned pizza right you like pizza but actually we were thinking about having you know something different but there was just pizza you you you eat the pizza and after that you you say I'm still hungry yeah how can you be hungry if you just fed yourself with so many good metaphor yes but at the end it was not what you you needed you what you're really uh hoping to have and then in your brain you are not satisfied yes yes very very good very good um metaphor how how do we quench this thirst or fulfill satiate this this hunger for human connections when the quote unquote Pizza of all those likes and and enormous follower groups Etc or I'm even going to something that Joanna brings in in both books the idea of success right you want to be to belong and you need to do this by being successful to be successful you build those personas that you talked about and you have it all all and then you ask ourselves do you and I say that uh um because I'm just going to bring um three different people right that have one single um commonality between the three of them and Anthony bdan Robin Williams right and Kate Spade a celebrity chef a comedian and actor and a designer and

three different people right that have one single um commonality between the three of them and Anthony bdan Robin Williams right and Kate Spade a celebrity chef a comedian and actor and a designer and the three of them had it all the whole world bowed to them to their intellect to their ability to design their ability to be witty they had it all and they all committed suicide because they felt alone and they did not have anyone there to despite their large Entourage to to help them to connect and one of the things justed that we do and I'm bringing here because I would like for us to to to move away from the the problem that we're facing loneliness to perhaps some solutions that we may have uh but one of the things that that comes to my mind when we we try to flip here is the fact that uh uh on one hand you are feeling social isol or uh a loneliness despite the number of followers and clicks and millions of dollars in your bank account whatever that is that it is your indicator that you're successful but you're not mature psychologically mature and it is so hard to look at yourself that you end up using defense mechanism I prefer to inebriate my myself I I prefer to dull my senses or my awareness of how I'm suffering instead of looking at why do I hurt so much let's talk a little bit more about this this journey toward um uh inner Discovery and and just perhaps uh what is the one element that Joanna in this case in this book in this chapter specifically about loneliness she brings to us in this silver platter right that one element which is courage first and foremost you got to have courage to go through this inner Voyage what what are your thoughts about this um potential solution to this terrible feelings of loneliness one of the things that uh we we see prevailing uh nowadays whether it was here before for we are we are talking about now okay our current times um the reason I say that is because yesterday I was watching something that people were say that families are not paying

r it was here before for we are we are talking about now okay our current times um the reason I say that is because yesterday I was watching something that people were say that families are not paying attention to their children nowadays and I thought well it never happened you know especially when children were not even considered they they were even forbidden to voice anything in their homes but so just to make it clear we are it's interesting right from context yes I mean yeah I I felt like saying hey wait a minute it never happened we have we still have to do that before children were I mean in the 1900s right uh you had to sit silent uh the patriarchal system Etc well let let's not go there but so the the uh thing that we are talking here is that overall what we can see is a tendency for us really to numb ourselves meaning I don't want to deal with my own pain and of course I don't want to deal with the pain of others but you see um this is the solution and call me crazy but at this moment the idea that came to my mind is uh if you're are uh you had a snake bite right you need the venon of this n that's right that's right yeah so um and this is actually one phrase by Sho Xavier when um you know the most well-known Medan in in Brazil and he and when he said that uh when we are overwhelmed by our own Sorrows that we should go and help others yes and immedi medely we are going to just stop thinking about ourselves not because of comparing but because we are going to be giving a purpose to our lives and in this chapter Jan deangeles says that without an an idea we are mummified alive I know isn't it great right isn't it great uh uh metaphor we we we want to be so alive and everywhere everywhere in every group and every whatever and then we are mummified I love that thanks thanks for bringing that that imagery back yeah yes so you know um so for starters I think the solution again is like you said it's not being afraid to look at ourselves and to be able to Embark in

ks thanks for bringing that that imagery back yeah yes so you know um so for starters I think the solution again is like you said it's not being afraid to look at ourselves and to be able to Embark in this journey of you know bringing the self out uh is no longer time for us just to be and hide in personas right or you know the world wants me to be a Barbie yes yeah um or wants me to be a certain way and this is not the way that that that you know gives me any any inner satisfaction anymore it is very good that this generation is not conforming because you know before we had even when we talk about fessions we had six or you know a couple more that was were considered prestigious and nowadays we see people uh achieving things results uh um in the professional life and naal resorts in so many different Avenues of life and um and really challenging us to review the old Concepts but at the same time like you said when we see all this wave of goodness we unfortunately as well all still uh our human nature that has this fear of being lonely to submit yes to you know to what is considered to be uh you know a place of prominance in this this day so uh you uh you go after this uh flickering Fame yes or and and I think like you said or Jah deangel said here it's courage to courage to be a change maker to realize that you know no matter how long you are going to try to feel the void if you don't feel with ideals if we don't feel with altruistic actions um even towards yourself and acceptance towards yourself yes uh you are going to feel lonely because even yourself abandon you yes oh beautifully said I think when you're talking here just so the the the main aspect here is to have courage to and I'm going to make a gesture here which is uh the spotlight right I can see the spotlight looking at me which we use that in in the idea and we talked about this before seeming instead of being right we we we curate we create this fictional character with our personas that we we create a

t looking at me which we use that in in the idea and we talked about this before seeming instead of being right we we we curate we create this fictional character with our personas that we we create a narrative that is posted um in every moment of Our Lives we WE Post and we create a um Hollow picture of who we are how we dress how we smile our family life how we our children um how we work out how we it just whatever those photos in selfies are omnipresent but they are carefully edited to create that in Narrative of who you're not and why is that it's because you need to be accepted you need to have to to to belong like we mentioned before today to belong to a group to belong to a a sense of success of respect whatever that is and then we we shift no longer moving the spotlight I'm still making the gesture of the spotlight but look at the spotlight as in what am I feeling who am I right what am I being there's no such a concern instruction but what am I do not doing but what am I feeling emoting how can I go back to inside of myself and in this pursuit of creating human connectedness let's now move the spotlight to those others especially what a great opportunity let's look into those vulnerable groups the elderly those who are sick those who are desperately isolated in a need of a word of a thought of a touch right so that in doing that we we dissipate the veil of the need to fulfill our hunger with a quote unquote Pizza when we really need something else so we can we can truly feel fulfilled what are your thoughts uh some images came to my mind while you were talking uh the last of them I start with the last one was when you were talking about the elderly is that um I don't know the name of the flower okay I'm not a specialist but I know that there is a flower that only opens at night to the Mugi I think I'm not so sure and um and it spreads its uh porfume at night so I was thinking about the elderly you know yeah they are at the you know dark meaning you know the the

pens at night to the Mugi I think I'm not so sure and um and it spreads its uh porfume at night so I was thinking about the elderly you know yeah they are at the you know dark meaning you know the the end of the their days yeah but when they can really transpire and give us so much beauty or so much teachings and wisdom wisdom right yeah exactly the word I was looking for and another thing that I was thinking in in all this um this urge that we have to be accepted because otherwise uh I um I'm going to be set apart or feel lonely is again I was thinking about a fi of flowers different flowers and um all of them are flowers and all of them are beautiful regardless that they are different from one another yeah so this is how we have to look at our ourselves so when we were talking about accept yourself the way you are and uh do not you know leave yourself alonely alone from your receiving your own love towards yourself in in terms of this acceptance and pretty soon you will find other flowers like you other people like you and that you will have more lasting and TR truthful relationships there are going to feel this this void so this would be I think one of the recommendations on how to deal with that the situation is here we all have that we all we go through different phases where we may feel cast out from societ from a group but uh let's go and and and and look for or where we are we really belong give let us give ourselves opportunities Bel in ourselves because many times those that we are trying to follow uh very soon will uh will'll get into Oblivion yeah yeah right what about the idols of the past yes right the writers movie stars uh uh entrepreneurs all all of those people you know pharaohs Emperors where are they uh they all return to dust and reincarnation but I I think this is one thing we are all children of God and uh we're never going to be alone if we allow God to be with us and if allow ourselves to understand that to connect with with God as as the source

hink this is one thing we are all children of God and uh we're never going to be alone if we allow God to be with us and if allow ourselves to understand that to connect with with God as as the source of it all right and I and I think this is beautifully said Jada I know we're we're getting to the end of our time together so I just want to say first and foremost thank you and I want to say to all of you who are chronically feeling alone you are not alone you can always reach out there is something very interesting um out there called project unlonely that talks about healing through the Arts through the conversation through connections there are many many resources out there you were not alone we we are all here and if we seek our Humanity with courage we are not alone but uh with that uh justad I wanted to to just end by reminding everyone that we meet weekly and uh that the basis of uh this study that we brought today uh is um Joanna deangeles um joanah de angelist is the spiritual author that worked with uh close collaboration by dealo Pera Franco uh introduced the psychology series or the collection uh the psychology collection which is a a series of books in total 16 uh books and uh with that uh that series Joanna created a bridge between spiritism in depth psychology so I say those books are truly a gift to all of us because they bring about themes such as this one today that is quite difficult for me but they discuss what is behind the surface level discussion right data points are there but let's look why do we feel this way let's look at the root cause and look for some solutions to help us be better prepared to face what we have but with that uh Jada uh if you don't have any final words I would say we'll see you next week