Ep 154 - The Family of Today

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality, a bridge to a better life. We meet each week to discuss and um get to different types of explorations on the intersection of psychology and spirituality. And for me especially um to find nuggets of precious and timeless wisdom that will help you and I live better lives with meaning and purpose. My name is Marcia Trojano and with me is the program founder Joada Cornold. Just so good to have you. How are you doing? >> I'm doing great Marcia. It's a always a a moment of joy when we are here to to start our podcast and to discuss so important topics with uh everyone that is reaching out and and listening to us. >> Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Jada. So Josara, for the past several weeks, several episodes, we've been talking about uh family, right, from different angles, education in the family, conflicts in the family, um those missions of the parent, the parents for that that family member, so on so forth. And today I would like for us to talk about um the maybe overarching view of the family and uh discuss the today's family right if I say that because if we think about it um the family that I myself have today is very different for example than my parents which is very different than my grandparents and so so forth. So there is a generational um propensity for a very different not so homogenic type of family. But there's also much more that is out there. And I'd love to to ask you maybe we can talk a little bit about what's happening in in today's family. Can we talk about and the question may be is um structure we could say even authority or um moral values. Do you believe Jos based on the works of joined the angels is that been diluted dissolving or is it changing to yet a different type of family? Um for starters [laughter] I'm not an engineer but uh what is coming to my mind is everything is related to engineering. Uh first of all thinking about the family as the cornerstone of you know any structure and our our

ughter] I'm not an engineer but uh what is coming to my mind is everything is related to engineering. Uh first of all thinking about the family as the cornerstone of you know any structure and our our society. But as you were talking about your experience in family and how you know each one of the generations we have been living different experiences. I was thinking about the construction of a building where you have different materials right uh so you will have the steel that is necessary. You have the um the the foam that goes in between in between the wall. You have the bricks, you have the cement, you have >> and I mean each one of them is uh is their own individual. >> But in order to build that uh building uh we uh we need each one of them. So regardless if we are now living um a kind of life that is we think that it's too different from our parents and grandparents. It is part of the construction of our society and we unfortunately of course have the family values have been through a crisis lately or or for a few decades already. You know when we have relaxed too much the the role of parents and uh the understanding what it is to be a parent, what it is to be to be a child and sometimes we do not pay attention to that and the dynamics of a family >> and how much even when you think I'm not going to be like my parents >> and all of a sudden you are repeating so many behaviors. >> Yes. Sometimes you you just don't repeat because you don't have a chance. Like for instance, the other day my son was talking to me. We we are very close. We were always very close and he was talking to me. Um uh how much he's realizing that he lives a reality that most of his friends do not have >> because they do not have a family present in their day-today lives. And and to them it's very hard to understand the relationship that you know he has with us. >> Yeah. >> To him it is very difficult to understand the lack of relationship their his friends have with their parents because they are mostly absent.

the relationship that you know he has with us. >> Yeah. >> To him it is very difficult to understand the lack of relationship their his friends have with their parents because they are mostly absent. Uh I remember that the first first shock that I had in this sense was when uh we my husband and I we 32 years ago we moved to London and we made some friends and one of them was saying that um um he I mean he he was um doing a doctorate or something and um and he was going to have his period of vacation but he couldn't go to his parents' home because they have rented his room. >> So he had to go to a different place and rent something for himself. I mean to me that sounded uh so strange because in our culture so of course if I'm going to rent my a room I will say listen I know when my son my my daughter will going to have a we'll be on vacation so I can rent that for nine months. I cannot rent for a m a year or I would put my my my children sleeping with me in the bathroom or or or even in the living room. And there were so many that came and and had this this kind of conversation of how far they were from, you know, uh the families and and and then I I I started looking at the other side and how how many of the you know older people, elderly person uh were alone. Mhm. >> And then I said, "Well, I mean, the the equation here is clear. >> You are not there for me when I need it in in my teens, in my 20s or whatever. You just, you know, it's time for you to face the world." And now, you know, they don't have a rapport. They don't have a relationship. >> Yeah. >> And so, and all of that is based on the values that we have for family. And today it's being really compromised. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I can have to tell you a personal note as well. Um Oh my goodness. Uh 30 years ago, I believe. Um at the time, uh in a different relationship, a diff my first husband. Um and my in-laws came to visit and they came to visit for a couple of weeks just and uh it was very interesting. There was such [snorts]

time, uh in a different relationship, a diff my first husband. Um and my in-laws came to visit and they came to visit for a couple of weeks just and uh it was very interesting. There was such [snorts] amazing amazing healing especially to my ex-husband that we proposed do you want to stay longer and they end up staying a whole year with us and it was really a year of healing those relationships that uh were severed or compromised before we moved to the US. And uh it was just very interesting because uh what transpired afterwards when I was talking to somebody else maybe at work and I said oh yeah my in-laws are with us for the year and and people like are you crazy why would you do that so it's it's it's a perspective a different construct for me was pure joy but looking from outside looking and like we don't do that, right? So values that are uh perhaps accepted within one culture versus the other. But then over, you know, if you think in terms of the the the overarching theme of today's family, we can absolutely understand that the um you mentioned that it's been diluted, right? it's been um compromised if you that I love your your uh example of a building uh in each different part of the world a different age uh the materials may change but we're still building a house right so let us build our house quote unquote house which is this family and uh >> thing Marcia that that it's important for us to think is that u >> you know our our offsprings they learn from our examples >> not from our words. >> Yeah. >> And the dynamics that are in you know established in a home whether you realize that or not consciously or unconsciously it it has a tendence of keeping repeating. Uh, for instance, I have a friend that her mother had her when she was 18 years old and she had her first daughter when she was 18 years old and her first daughter had her first child when she was 18 year years old. So, we are talking about three generations that uh, you know, we will not consider that

st daughter when she was 18 years old and her first daughter had her first child when she was 18 year years old. So, we are talking about three generations that uh, you know, we will not consider that abnormal. >> Correct. because and you see how how things uh repeated and uh and um um I mean and so many other things. I I I've been working for a nonprofit organization for 25 years and um I through that I had the the the opportunity of attending some incredible meetings and forums and I I remember I was in this forum and that was promoted by the Ashoka organization and one of the um the or the organization s came to, you know, there were like five or six that were going to present their work. >> Yeah. >> And then one of them came and she was um a psychologist and she started talking about the work that she was doing in the uh I don't remember quite well the country. I don't remember if it was Ecuador but it's something in that that area. uh that was the following. The main goal the the mission of that organization was to teach uh mothers to be mothers and children to be children >> because they didn't know what this role entailed. Why? Because their uh community um the dynamics were the following. The children go out to ask for money, to ask for help, and the mothers stay in their place, you know, waiting for the money to do and to take care of, you know, cooking or whatever they do. >> So they never lived childhood going to school or playing with friends, having free time. And the mothers ne never understood the role that that it was their responsibility to provide for the children and not the children be providing for them. But the thing is the way they were raised that was the culture that was the dynamics and I remember that I was so uh surprised with I could never imagine that but then when she was explaining it made completely sense. Yeah, >> it's like you know now that I am an adult I I'm retired I already went to the streets you know for 10 15 years uh you know because I'm a I'm a child and

s explaining it made completely sense. Yeah, >> it's like you know now that I am an adult I I'm retired I already went to the streets you know for 10 15 years uh you know because I'm a I'm a child and people will be more susceptible though to help me something like this and and so you know this is when we are talking about family and how we we imprint and uh we we pass on our values to the next generation. Yeah, >> it's very important. And what is happening today is that um we we live excesses like we lived at excesses in the past like you know you are my children are my property. >> Yeah. >> And uh and you have to do exactly what I want you to do and it's you know there is no questioning there is nothing. And now with modern psychology we understand that you know and even even with spiritism especially with spiritism that that child may be a much grown uh spirit than I am. >> So I'm addressing a spirit that although is not entirely conscious of you know its whole history or characteristics etc but it is it is there. And so what happened? It came to a point that we say, "Oh, if I I do that, my my child is going to revenge. So I be I I better allow them to do whatever they they want to do because this is the new way of education." It is not. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say picking on that, right? because um with so many just had a cultural shift, technological shifts and and social changes and we're talking about globally um as you're mentioning it is uh you talked about Latin America, right? uh Central America. But if we can just open that thought process everywhere in the world, there's different aspects of the same story where those roles need to be rettaught, if you will. And I'm thinking those social changes um are pushing us to to rethink how to be prepared ourselves, how to re-educate ourselves and uh to be able to provide a a very healthier living uh within the family. Right. >> So yeah, go ahead. >> But when we talk about healthier >> Yeah. What do you mean about healthier?

ucate ourselves and uh to be able to provide a a very healthier living uh within the family. Right. >> So yeah, go ahead. >> But when we talk about healthier >> Yeah. What do you mean about healthier? Healthier means you know okay now you're going to become a vegetarian or vegan uh or you know uh and of course you are going to exercise choose a sport or do something like that because you know your body needs more structure and uh you know you also need to be successful in your profession. So this is what we are looking forward and and this is what we imagine you know if I have a good job, I have money, I can enjoy my life, I can live a comfortable life, I can have vacations, I look good, I I I eat well. But we are not necessarily thinking about the emotional side. And this is what we were talking about before in terms of you know we are not there by chance. We are we're not invited to become parents or to have a family by >> and in this case I mean I even say if it's just you and a partner you're you're a family okay there is a dynamic there. There is the relationship of two spirits that are together and they have they have a purpose. So regardless if you have children or not or grandchildren, I mean you you you within your home, you are a community. >> You are a circle that it's responsible to radiate to the rest of the world. And so when you have peace at home and when you have a a nice relationship, you know, you go to the world with that energy that has been sustaining you from what you have in your >> micro cosmic life, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love what you're saying. Right. uh and uh and what I keep thinking if we keep you know just evolving that uh train of thought is um healthy life and our expectations and redefine even right to really look for sound definitions of what it is to be healthier uh outside looking in or or inside looking out. what is it that I need to to be and that peace and uh very um strong relationships with each other is really the foundation for that. But

o be healthier uh outside looking in or or inside looking out. what is it that I need to to be and that peace and uh very um strong relationships with each other is really the foundation for that. But back to the topic of today's uh family type, I I keep thinking that uh uh just like we need to redefine what healthy living is, I think we should probably redefine the goals of a family. And one of the the topics that comes to my mind um is um when we confuse the idea of uh inspiring our children, giving them the freedom to choose, right? given their opportunity to be psychologically, spiritually mature with um that negligence that maybe you you referenced earlier when you talked about your son that like they don't they don't behave like me, right? So I I I was wondering um let's say and I'm I'm just going to no judgment here everyone. I'm just giving some couple of examples that came to my mind. But let's say um uh if a young child and we're talking about maybe you know in in right between uh just before becoming uh uh adolescent like 10 11 12 and that person really spends excessive amounts of hours in front of a computer either playing games or um immersed in with social media having no limits whatsoever and uh what are the habits what are the behaviors that that young person will lead to the rest of their lives and what about uh their emotional education intellectual education right uh EQ IQ uh we we I love I'm reading the book on spiritual uh intelligence right what also your your SQ um and uh and from that perspective uh as a parent that you given it all as a means of I'm loving you with all that I have. I'm giving all of it but those excesses are there as you mentioned. Therefore, [snorts] um that child that has been entrusted to you to raise has really those sense of boundaries of limits of self-control, right? And I was just wondering um how can we do better >> from the ability to provide the love but also in freedom but not necessarily license to do anything um

boundaries of limits of self-control, right? And I was just wondering um how can we do better >> from the ability to provide the love but also in freedom but not necessarily license to do anything um unbridled behaviors because there is no there's no sense of um boundaries uh set forth. Um >> well I think that u the short answer would be stop delegating. >> Yes. Uh we are delegating the the the formation uh of our children to you know uh to video games because uh all their friends play video games and while while they are playing video games I can be here you know looking at Instagram and you know and they are not troubling troubling me or Yeah. >> Me, you know. Uh, so it's like a a technological babysitter. So I I turn the the the the TV on. I I give the the the cell phone the you know technological and I mean this has become become so natural in our society that we are not thinking that you know it's not technology that is bad. is how we lack control or we delegate purposes to things that cannot form my charact. like we were talking before about you know if I am at the Instagram and looking at the influencers and then all of a sudden I think you know life has to be that way and and child for a teenager especially you know they they sometimes they you know they they cannot really define what is reality and what is illusion. Um I was thinking you know uh about going to school. Uh what would we say if the the teachers at the school is started uh stopping teaching them what they had to teach because you know I have to please them. Uh they're asking for you know more uh more breaks uh you know more time for them to socialize with each other more more you know uh time for them to eat now I I want an ice cream or something like and actually because they are demanding that actually and even perhaps to look at their phones to play their games they will not have time to to to give them the proper education, right? What uh you know the formal education as we know that they should be receiving at

ps to look at their phones to play their games they will not have time to to to give them the proper education, right? What uh you know the formal education as we know that they should be receiving at school. And sometimes we are doing that at home without realizing. No, but my son, he he wants so much to watch that that that t pro TV program or or or he tires very easily or this or that. And um a a and you know the natural things that sometimes is this process of education that we have to keep on repeating ourselves. Please don't forget to brush your teeth or you know do those the the or >> I remember those days. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Or you know the little chores they have at home. We we have to keep on repeating. So we have to keep on repeating the good things and give the good values and show that we are present. But sometimes like you were saying today in terms of techno technology. I I see that actually and I think everyone sees that sometimes we go to a restaurant there as a a family or mother and children or whatever and they are all you know uh on their phones and and and not paying attention to who is next to you. So a and one of the things that can be compromised >> with this you know engaging in in social media so much is the lack of proper relationship and exchange of energy and putting your heart into it. >> Yeah. >> So you have automatic responses like how you doing? Ah of course I'm fine. >> I'm good. Yeah. and whatever you know. So and now you know even a new language that is only you know leathers right >> that [laughter and gasps] we have to catch up on this new language that is being developed right among among our our teenagers especially and so it is it is hard I mean educating oneself it is hard enough. Yes. >> Being responsible for being a pillar >> in your home >> when you decide to become a parent, >> it takes a lot of work as well. >> Absolutely. And I know uh we're not here to judge anybody, right? uh but it's very important this moment of reflection

home >> when you decide to become a parent, >> it takes a lot of work as well. >> Absolutely. And I know uh we're not here to judge anybody, right? uh but it's very important this moment of reflection of the role our role as parents our role as children in you know of our parents and uh and of course um in today's family uh it's it's very easy to find the those uh families where the parents role have been one of uh I'm your provider, right? Instead of I am your guide. And you mentioned quite well uh there is a a a notion of imprinting and providing also not only those generational um patterns of behavior with that imprint but also uh providing the the moral compass for the child. This is our values as I know the best that I know. So from that perspective um we we all should reflect on how we we should shift from if we are there right from being providers uh to become guides right life guides if you will to to to foster um the complex idea that uh we are raising and you mentioned this already Jos I'm just putting my thoughts together. But uh we are raising immortal spirits, right? Uh and the importance of that relationship is one that should create a room for for uh freedom but should also create the room for duties and right where the the child in this case learns uh the responsibilities and understand that uh with every um aspect of modern life and we're talking about the technology in this case. We we have a great access to things that can help us grow. But if we fail to teach those limits um or even digital safety or even uh beyond that what is considered can be considered a healthy social uh interaction so that you guide you as a parent you guide your child through this new world that we live in with technology and I and I go back to 2000 right when we we say social media It's really the burst that came with Instagram right at 2000. So 25 years more or less that we have uh this this new frame of interaction that uh is awesome. >> Yeah. >> Or is it? [laughter]

ial media It's really the burst that came with Instagram right at 2000. So 25 years more or less that we have uh this this new frame of interaction that uh is awesome. >> Yeah. >> Or is it? [laughter] >> But one of the Yeah, go ahead. I was going to ask you something else, but go ahead just while you were talking. You know, one thing to my mind is that sometimes we we take this role that of only being a provider and you know, I'm I'm doing my duty. I'm providing you a good education and and vacations and this and that and food and and and shelter and and okay, that is my commitment. not thinking so much about uh really putting yourself in trying to understand that this is an immortal spirit but if it this spirit is reincarnating it's because it needs guidance. >> Yes. >> And and and you were the one that have you know been selected to become the guide the guide of that spirit. But sometimes we take the we go to the opposite because we all have you know from many reincarnations but we don't even need to go there we can just be here in the present one because I know that some people you will feel more comfortable if we are just talking about one life this life but we have enough frustrations in our lives right things that we would like to to be and we could not be like for for instance myself I wanted to be um an astronaut. I wanted to be a uh you know a musician. I wanted to be a doctor and I'm an economist. Okay. So, and and a ballad dancer and so many things that um well I I I didn't accomplish and I'm not complaining about my life. But what happens is when you have a child uh sometimes you project your unhealed wounds your frustrations so much because you know oh I I didn't have the resources to go to school to you know to go to college and now my children have to go to college and to the best college and and and and not paying attention to the abilities to the talents and and tendencies that the child has. And so what happens? We repress. We do not respect the

go to college and to the best college and and and and not paying attention to the abilities to the talents and and tendencies that the child has. And so what happens? We repress. We do not respect the inclinations of that child in so many different aspects, right? So there is that as well and none of those things you know wanting to impose because in my family everyone is a lawyer. So you have to become a lawyer. >> Yeah. >> And or you have to become a doctor or whatever you know. uh in my family everyone had the ability to paint. So you have to paint as well and I mean I don't want I I have two left hands I cannot hold I don't know what to do with that unless mess up with myself. So things have been >> really you know what we have been living now in our society this imposing that you have to be a generation of selfachievered per people >> and there I mean it's no wonder that the number of suicides among teenagers having uh increased so much and young people have increased so much the pressure that they And and we we see that especially when they go to college and and and they cannot cope with uh uh the emotional situation, the pressure, the the the lack of ability perhaps or of you know following the the the the subject that they they are they having. And so and so you know um this is has been really important for us to focus and to think about and understanding that uh that requires work uh work again I'm going to to mention my example uh Brazilian and um my son was born here and and of course all his education were was here in the US and uh but of course since the beginning I was you know teaching him to speak Portuguese and um for some years during his childhood was okay. But then when he started you know when he became was about 8 years old from 8 to 12 to 13 those were really difficult years because when he was you know learning more having more you know uh uh interaction with uh English and school and friends and all of that that it became very hard for him to to speak

ly difficult years because when he was you know learning more having more you know uh uh interaction with uh English and school and friends and all of that that it became very hard for him to to speak Portuguese. is or even to have the vocabulary to to really truly manage to express himself. And um but uh but but he like it since the beginning. He like it the idea of being able of speaking this language of communicating with cousins and and grandparents and all that. >> But it was be really hard. So during at least five years, our conversation would be half in English, half in Portuguese. I would say I mean myself all all the time I would be speaking Portuguese >> and uh he would be mixing up. So I would say to him, listen, you say the whole phrase that you want to say in Portuguese and if there is one word that you do not know, >> you say it in English and I will teach you what is the that word word in Portuguese. So it was five years like that and me telling him when he would be speaking English with me, I don't understand you say everything in Portuguese. Now he speaks Portuguese without an accent very well. But I mean it it was >> beautiful >> for the five years. >> It was a lot of work and commitment and being the one that oh my god I you know I I don't want I don't even want to talk to you because it's too much work and and it was hard. So okay we are talk talking here more about committing to the emotional structure of these beings that come to us but I mean I I I I'm just giving this example because it's the same thing when you see that your child has you know a tendency sometimes we see from from early age you know that king or queen that have reincarnated and love to have subject and you did that and you did that. [laughter] >> I love it. Yeah. >> Oh, look. Look how cute my child here is, you know. And I said, "No, no, this is not cuteness. This is something that you have to address very carefully, right?" >> Yes. Yes. Yes. I love it. I love it. The king reincarnated as your son and like,

know. And I said, "No, no, this is not cuteness. This is something that you have to address very carefully, right?" >> Yes. Yes. Yes. I love it. I love it. The king reincarnated as your son and like, "Oh, no. I'm not. No, I'm not going to do that." But, uh, I love it. Let's maybe because you already mentioned this um talk a little bit about what is the essence of the family. It doesn't matter if you're born 2,000 years ago today or 2,000 years from now. Um which is really all about uh learning um teaching and providing an environment of law of respect, right? And uh I was just wondering what is it that we are we need to even if we're not doing maybe consider starting to do now that we know >> I I think the first thing is for us to understand uh >> what is the reason for family right and one of the >> in family constellation >> she says that um more or less like the way I remember that families is the laboratory. >> Yes. >> Uh where you know uh spirits are going together in order to improve themselves to acquire virtues to rid themselves of uh you know imperfections and to learn to this sometimes very conflicted area you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> To learn to deal with one another, to develop compassion, tolerance, forgiveness, because you know when a family member does something to you that hurts you because it is a family member, you are much more inclined to exercise forgiveness. And so the way she she she puts that to us and the way we understand the spiritism is that the first uh reason for family is for us to learn how to live in in community and how to respect one another, how to love one another. Sometimes we see people that are very generous, compassionate, charitable and they they do so many yeah and work for the society for you know the whole world in a way and they overlook what is necessary in their home. So our first obligation as as as as as much as possible because I know that there are some situations that uh we will not achieve the results that we wanted immediately or just in

ssary in their home. So our first obligation as as as as as much as possible because I know that there are some situations that uh we will not achieve the results that we wanted immediately or just in one incarnation but it's a a a work in construction you know uh you know we are building that so that each time can be become better you know uh the way to polish stone is to bring another stone and to rub it and rub it and two uh pointy stones all of a sudden going to become round stone. So this is what we are this is the purpose uh that we we have a family to to learn to exercise love and eternal love. So if we want to love humanity and respect each other and to live in a world where we dream about >> yes >> everything starts in the home. Everything start with the closest relationship that you have. So this is the purpose and when we neglect that you know when we send to the world you know children that well my parents were never present or uh I mean I I didn't have a really people that would would be interested in my emotional side or you know like insensitivity like you know your daughter first boyfriend uh all of a sudden the boyfriend breaks up with the daughter, then you just go and say, "Wow, this is only the first one." You always experience this so many more times, which I know it is true or it can be true, but this is is not be being sensitive to the needs and to the spiritual maturity of that being that is there. And this is what we have to address. And at the same time that we are educating them, we are educating ourselves because there is this famous story about Gandhi that I love so much that uh you know people would um make huge lines to go and talk to him. And uh there is this woman that comes with his her child her boy and tell Gandandy Gandhi, "My son loves to eat sweets so much. Please tell him how much eating sweet is bad for his health." >> Uhhuh. >> Gandi replied to her, "Uh, come back in a month." And then she had to go to the line again. She came back in a month and okay

Please tell him how much eating sweet is bad for his health." >> Uhhuh. >> Gandi replied to her, "Uh, come back in a month." And then she had to go to the line again. She came back in a month and okay Gandhi remember me I'm here to you know with the boy that you know he eats too much sweet can you tell him you know how bad it is for your health and then Gi says don't eat sweet it's very bad for your health and then she's and that that was it and she was so said well why didn't you tell me that a month ago why did I have to come back again and do all this to talk to you because a month ago I was still eating sweet >> too much >> too much. So in order to for you to educate >> you have to educate yourself first. You cannot tell a child >> don't lie and the child is always catching you lying. >> Absolutely. Yeah. So this is this is this is the process and when you think you are educating the other if you have this consciousness you are educating yourself as well because there will come to you and say you know I'm I'm telling him not to eat that much sweets because it's bad you know for children to eat that much sweet and you know sugary uh candies and etc. But I I'm doing that myself. I cannot go without you know a chocolate bar every every day. So you know that is why sometimes it's so hard because we also have to educate and to pass values that we still have not incorporated in ourselves and so beautifully said yes family means it means hard work but a work that is going to bring so much compensation. getting back again to my son when he was saying that and he telling he he was telling me, "Mom, I love you so much. I I feel so good when you embrace me and I like to embrace you so much and I never realized it that other people didn't, you know, didn't have that." You know, that moment I I I really reached the stars and it was it was amazing. So there is compensation uh with everything like you know the hard work that we we do and we are learning the first notes in the piano

moment I I I really reached the stars and it was it was amazing. So there is compensation uh with everything like you know the hard work that we we do and we are learning the first notes in the piano and all of a sudden you're playing Moser or barovven you know but it was hard work it was exercise every day and the first duty that we have is to put all our energy in the formation of our family and again this family Maybe just another person or maybe even your cat or dog or or any other pet that you like because there is a rapport there there is something there. >> Yeah. I beautiful beautifully said. So um for me and for all of us um despite changes generational cultural uh geog geographical uh whatever right the the family is a very important concept should not disappear and um and we see that within a child being born um tenderness and devotion in the parents naturally awaken is very instinctual u but how do we apply that today and I'm just repeating your words uh in in a way with my words just but I think today um for example it's almost uh u it was almost impossible for example for me to mimic what I had with my family uh which was we had three meals seated together, you know, on a table with a tablecloth and and and home-cooked meal. That reality did not exist for me when my kids were young. But I can have some shared meals after school, for example. We always sat down and let's meet, let's eat together. Or how can we, and I'm just thinking out loud here. Um, how can we uh gather together out of respect and love, building the the those building blocks uh of learning about discipline and free will with the collective decision making or uh you mentioned uh if if one of your children is undergoing a breakup and and the world the world seems to be of you know completely ending and we know it doesn't. Let's use sensitive positive language. Let's see uh what the child in its own spiritual psychological maturity needs at the time. We our role as parents is one to to provide that and uh learn from them,

t's use sensitive positive language. Let's see uh what the child in its own spiritual psychological maturity needs at the time. We our role as parents is one to to provide that and uh learn from them, right? Just learn from them because they're there to educate us as well. So I just we are coming to an end. Do you have any thoughts for us to to close our conversation? >> There are two two remarks that one of the Angel made in her book family constellation that I would like to mention before we close. One of them is uh when she talks about freedom because sometimes we we say or our children say oh I feel like I am in a prison or we give too much liberty and excess and all of that. And she says that moral limits are like the banks of a river. They do not imprison the waters. They guide them toward the ocean. So this is our role here is not to imprison and not to like I said because we have we are have some expectations to to to want them to fulfill the expectations we have and the other one is that she she talks about a family as being a constellation of love in which each member orbits around the nucleus of divine fraternity. So we have a role, we have a responsibility. So how do we change the world? We change ourselves. Right? So this is what we are doing here. And of course with all that we have to emphasize that we are not criticizing what we have today. I know and and for myself as well that we are doing the best that we can. But are we really? So let's pay attention to that and and understand that uh with the times changing of course some of the structure will change like for instance before there were no refrigerators no washing machine so it doesn't mean that I have to keep my food now out or or will have to wash my hand my my my clothes in hand so we will adapt we will Follow this you know the structures the knowledge that we are getting gathering from from psychology as well to deal with the emotional issues but the base is always going to be love and living the real fraternity

ou know the structures the knowledge that we are getting gathering from from psychology as well to deal with the emotional issues but the base is always going to be love and living the real fraternity understanding that there we have a group of spirits that have asked prior to reincarnation to meet again and to protect themselves. together. >> Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it. But we are at the end of our time together. Just want to say thank you and um I think Josada through the works and the words of Joanna the Angels brought us the formula for our family of today, right? Love love is the central energy to to feed to nourish to to provide the structure of the family that we should all have balanced limits balanced loving discipline. We should foster real dialogue and coexistence but uh also uh respect respect each one another and our individualities because that's what we need right we need that u that warm embing brace as your son mentioned to you when we we well we come home to our children to our parents to to our spouses. So I I think this is a great topic. Um and I appreciate us focusing several weeks, several episodes on that. Um we are at the end of our talk today. So if this is the first time that uh you're listening to our program um we our psychology and spirituality are weekly program weekly episodes and they're all based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus and u we hope that uh this conversation was as enlightening to you as it was for me. I would like to thank you Josa for being with us today and all of our sponsors Maluka, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council and I'm in Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the medical spiritist association. Thank you everyone. Thank you and see you next time.