Ep 139 - Faith: The Inner Power that Transforms Reality

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality, a bridge to a better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore this intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result capture timeless wisdom contained in both fields. Josetta Corn goat and I today will talk about this what I think it's such an important topic faith not faith as seen under the lens of dogma but as the universal force of resilience the force of transformation and actually the connection with the divine so we're here to bring the teachings from Joanna the anggeles in this confluence right just of spiritism philosophy psychology and we're here to highlight a a point to me of um understanding that faith is much more than a belief it is that psychological and spiritual and I'm going to use a yian word here archetype embedded in the human soul so just how you doing today. >> Hello Marcia. Hello everyone. It's good to be back and to talk about such an amazing I think topic faith and spirituality and understanding the inner power that um comes from having faith and so I'm ready when you are. >> All right. So let's go ahead and start with the basics. Right. Let's start by defining the difference perhaps between faith and religion. Can you talk a little bit about it? Joanna, it's a very important point because sometimes you know we may uh not quite understand what one means uh and the other >> we put it everything together. So if I have faith so to say it means that I have to have a religion or if I have a religion it means that I have to have a faith and when we talk about faith even in in terms of the what the spirit of the anggeles tells us and yung also because he explored all this possibility of the the the inner self and individuation ation, the path to individuation, all of that we understand that is it's more like a an spiritual con conviction. >> It's something that is like an inner trust that we have related to something that is transcendent. It can be God. It can be the soul. It can be the eternal

more like a an spiritual con conviction. >> It's something that is like an inner trust that we have related to something that is transcendent. It can be God. It can be the soul. It can be the eternal truths. Even if we don't have material proof, there is uh and it it represents more of a a deep existential posture and uh and comes spontaneously from the hel and we will be talking later about this how you know we can see that in some people not necessarily. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> It's absolutely subjective. Because your faith and we are not talking about religion here may be different than my faith. >> Yes. >> May be related or present in certain instances that I don't have. But the the main characteristic of that faith is that we really have a belief without necessarily >> a proof. Right. >> Yeah. >> Yes. And when we talking about religion, we're talking more about a structure and collective system that organizes our relationship with the divine, with God. So we will find um doctrines, rituals, sacred texts, um uh moral co um uh moral codes all in one institutional frameworks. And then we will have the different religions uh the different belief systems that we have. >> And what is amazing is that we like we said at the beginning we may find people that is very religious but not necessarily will present that deep faith. >> Yes. they are more connected to the outward uh reflections or or or way of dealing with their daily lives than necessarily having this inner understanding and and profound deep spiritual strength that we will find in people that um have uh really faith. So >> we can find it in many different expressions. A faith is going to transcend time, reincarnation. And um there is a metaphor that it says the following that the faith is the inner flame >> that lights the path. >> Oh, I love it. I love it. >> That contains this inner inner flame. So >> it's called like the lamp may be >> uh rigid opac and so it will not uh reflect or be able to let the flame

lights the path. >> Oh, I love it. I love it. >> That contains this inner inner flame. So >> it's called like the lamp may be >> uh rigid opac and so it will not uh reflect or be able to let the flame that is the faith go and and sometimes it it it it is so rigid that may suffocate it. So when we talk about the rigid rigidity that we can find certain strictness that we can find in certain religions. >> Uh we will find how hard it is for for people really to develop faith as opposed to only belonging to a religion. >> Yeah. And it's important I'm I'm restating what you just said, but just to to uh make it clear because I'm you know regurgitating a little bit but uh uh faith uh as you mentioned Josada is that inner conviction right so it is a trust that transcend proof but really important here uh to differentiate because it's not blind either right it doesn't that is a blind faith which leads to the realm of either dogma or even fanaticism right u but I I think it's important for us to to understand that that uh uh the expression of one's faith given a certain structure or religion may be not equal between me and you and and eight billion other people right because it's uh While faith is universal, religion is temporal, right? It it belongs to time, culture, and even traditions of a given um era or given um geography. But I wanted to to to ask you something else because you're just getting to it and and reminded me that uh um you know some some people will say that uh uh for some that uh expression of faith right that that feelings of faith and when I say that I immediately just go to a beautiful beautiful uh sculpture by Bellini in Rome. uh the um the ecstasy of St. Teresa, right? That that ecstasy because you feel God so close to you that uh that uh uh feeling of faith for some is natural, right? We could even call it genetic. But can you perhaps explain that from a more spiritual perspective? Maybe we can bring a little bit of light into why sermon at all. >> Okay. Uh since you mentioned faith as

ould even call it genetic. But can you perhaps explain that from a more spiritual perspective? Maybe we can bring a little bit of light into why sermon at all. >> Okay. Uh since you mentioned faith as not being related to any blind faith or dogmatism, uh I I think it's important for us as well to mention that when we are again talking about faith, we are talking about some transcendental something you know that can represent an intuition. Not necessarily to not necessarily uh deity right like God but like like we were saying before uh faith in the soul, faith in in yourself, faith in possibilities. Of course we we we we tend to only talk about faith when we are talking about religious uh examples and and of course in this case as as you know sometimes people say oh my god how come this person has so much faith it must and I mean we just say that without knowing their parents or their their ancestors we just go and say must be genetic >> and it's Not according to Joanna Dangel is more like a transpersonal memory because here we are talking about you you know the piling up of um experiences knowledge acquired in different existences. We talking about reincarnation. So um we will see that in the life of saints you know how from early age they show such a devotion such an inclination towards um you know Jesus or the scriptures or whatever any other religious book or or faith. Yeah, >> that definitely it comes from other incarnations to the point that sometimes the family uh is uh uh related or is have as faith a certain religion and the child is going to to look for a different one. >> So it is not something necessarily that that we inherit. We may inherit the ha habit of you know going to the temple going to the church and learning the scriptures but u but but the thing is >> it is related to the maturity of the spirit. So it's something that the spirit is going to be carrying away carrying with it with it toward towards other incarnations rel in relation to moral emotional

t is related to the maturity of the spirit. So it's something that the spirit is going to be carrying away carrying with it with it toward towards other incarnations rel in relation to moral emotional intuitive lessons and it's going to to grow from that each time more. So this is uh why sometimes we we see people that uh have this connection and uh also mentioning you know uh this in relation to other occup occupations that may not necessarily just be related to a religious aspect of life but can related to other aspects of life like you know architecture you know >> say I dreamt about a building I see the building here and people will tell you >> it's impossible >> I imagine you know like here in New York City I'm thinking about you know the pioneer that decided to do >> the Brooklyn Bridge >> and I remember the one you know the Eiffel the Eiffel Tower well as well I mean They would tell this people constantly it is impossible engineering cannot go to such a streams. It is impossible to have a roof that is heavier than the columns or you know that I I'm not an architecture >> but >> Oh, you're you're you're talking to me, right? >> Yeah. >> It's you you're you're getting those examples and you're you you're getting really deep. Yeah, I I do have an architecture degree and I I'm not an architect, but uh you're right there right with Florence and the cathedral with with the Koopa that said no, you can't do it or the Pantheon in Rome or or the Eiffel Tower as you said. It's just interesting feats of imagination. You know, I I can only imagine when Michelangelo when the idea, oh, let's paint on the roof. >> Okay. >> When the roof is the roof is not straight, it it's, you know, to the side and it's like, how did you do this >> with the lack of technology that we had in the 1600s and 1500s? Right. Yes. And I was going to say 16th century and and and then you know people would say it is absolutely impossible until it's done. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> And why it is done because those people

Right. Yes. And I was going to say 16th century and and and then you know people would say it is absolutely impossible until it's done. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> And why it is done because those people have faith in themselves. >> Yeah. I just wanted to to to faith but it's a an example that comes to my mind uh from a feat of architecture. uh you may not know him but uh Frank Gary who is known for their you know their exquisite uh uh works of architecture that is really just a a sculpture. It's very uh amazing. There's not a single straight line in his building. So uh very interesting um in a field that so many people I'm talking about the construction the the materialization of a dream right uh and usually it will come late and and super over budget etc. And I I just read the other day that uh Frank Garry's 100% of all his buildings, crazy as it is, none of them came late or over budget. So not faith, it's it's the the the work of doing something really well. But when we talk about uh uh you know, I even you you're saying New York just the Empire State, right? just to to get the sheer uh height at that time for that building. It is incredible and it it takes that vision faith as a vision in in something like that, right? >> Yes. Absolutely. So it's important for us to expand our Oh, you're talking about a synonym of believing. Yes, it is believing. >> Yes. living without seeing, without necessarily seeing because you know all these innovations that we the innovations that we have >> it was because someone >> believed that uh enough to make those things concrete >> to us all the inventions that we may talk about. So it it it is really fascinating and I think it's very important and as a lesson to us since we are talking always trying to bring that to us to ourselves to how am I going to apply this to my daily lives in the sense of you know >> believe in yourself you know have faith in yourself sometimes it's because you know we >> uh we have a whim that you know I want

am I going to apply this to my daily lives in the sense of you know >> believe in yourself you know have faith in yourself sometimes it's because you know we >> uh we have a whim that you know I want to pursue a certain a certain career, a certain area and you do not have the talent for that. But it doesn't mean that you have you don't have a talent. You just have to focus on it and look for in in your inner self what's your talent. >> Yeah. >> And there are so many. >> Yeah. And I love that you reference back my my favorite parable of all times, right? The the the parable of the talents, right? But uh but Josara in one of her books, Joanna um talks about the idea that human beings in essence is a religious animal, right? And uh so it's it's in in what you're talking about that almost genetic essence of the person is is expressing its own faith in what however shape or form. And uh and when we talk that faith, we're talking about that uh deep connection with the divine, with the sacred. And I I just wanted to to maybe share a little bit about uh Jung and um and Joanna references how Jung references that as the psychoid archetype, but many people look at that thinking psychoid, what what do we mean? Right? uh is this something pathologic that you're bringing here? And what he means is really is the archetype of the self as a manifestation of that inner spiritual drive and and I love it because what uh the spirit is connection with that is uh how it really resonates what in the spirit's book uh question 621 we we understand that the divine law right the laws of God are inscribed in our soul. So if it goes back to Jung in faith, right? The psychoid archetype as he calls it the psychoid archetype of God is like and I think you referenced already with Joanna the angelist uh that spiritual memory of our eternal this is beautiful eternal relationship with the creator right and it goes across many different incarnations. So, I I really appreciate you you you bringing that up um for us

ual memory of our eternal this is beautiful eternal relationship with the creator right and it goes across many different incarnations. So, I I really appreciate you you you bringing that up um for us as well. But, uh if we continue, we have a a few more minutes together. I was wondering if um if we can go back into Memorade, right, into history. Can um can you comment perhaps on how and we're talking about three centuries ago, right? how the rationality that took over the the those scientists, we're talking about the the innovators of the 17th century, how they paved the way for what at the time was a confrontation between those rational science and those dominant religious doctrines at the time, right? And and if you go if you keep thinking in terms of what happened at the time, it kept increasing, right? Rationalism and rational thoughts uh really kept growing in to the moment that it reached its peak at the end of 19th century and even the beginning of the first half of the 20th century. And uh we start to see collectively speaking all of us distancing ourselves from God and and I think uh the famous Niches quote right that God is dead or even uh like him some other nihilistic or super materialistic view of the world. Can we perhaps talk a little bit about what was going on in the world and uh and and maybe what's going on today 21st century >> and since you mention young I think it's very important also to um to say uh how important was his present among us and how I mean in a good way he re revolutionary his teaching is and his experiences and his deductions were from the for the time because as you said we were living in a time starting in the center 17th century where there was a rise in rationalism. >> Yeah. So for he was considered as one of the angelist mentioned was one of the first academics to not ne worship absolute rationalism in in relation to the universe. He had a much o open mind >> in relation to all that and and uh and the even when we mentioned the quote

e of the first academics to not ne worship absolute rationalism in in relation to the universe. He had a much o open mind >> in relation to all that and and uh and the even when we mentioned the quote from niche we have to mention it well because >> say God is that >> God is that as an assumption you know considering what as more like a diagnosis of of a cultural condition. Looking around at the way that uh the world was increasingly ruled by reason, secularism. >> Yeah. >> The tradition religion had lost its moral authority. So, so he was stating a fact. God is dead. He was back. He was not saying about he was not talking about his personal conviction and not even trying to say to tell people that God is dead. No, he was a stating effect of the situation and >> and quite important uh sorry to interrupt you but uh it is really interesting as you said right the the obsolescence of a current paradigm which was how religion was absorbed and uh a part of everybody's everyday life but at that point that the juncture point of niche's quote right it was like no it's crumbling as it is as an institution that paradigm is no longer the current paradigm so it is dead >> let's let's create a new one or it is being created a new one right >> yeah and this basically started or or really reached a high point during the um French Revolution. >> Yeah. Especially when there was a time where where people um made a festival, a festival of reason inside the cathedral, not >> and uh replace it, remove it the cross and all the uh things related to to God from the altar and put it in its place, a statue of a a woman that represented reason at that time. So this was really something that uh was huge and it started and and and and from there on the to have like a kind of war between faith in in religious terms and religion and science thinking that one would oppose to the other. So it's just in the middle of the 20th century and I think more now in the 21st century that we are trying to catch

eligious terms and religion and science thinking that one would oppose to the other. So it's just in the middle of the 20th century and I think more now in the 21st century that we are trying to catch up and of course it started with minds like Jung and others that came later and uh started showing that okay I'm going to venture myself into this path of science and reason and technology >> but then comes the questions uh you know how exactly do this work and and primal matter came from from where >> and the brain how comes you know you put a mass together that for to us from the outside means nothing and it represents everything in terms of our human interaction in the world. Yeah. >> And moving my muscles and cardiac frequencies and all of that. And so like Zan D'Angelus clearly expressed with knowledge >> came the big questions and I think spiritism came to a right time where people were eager to know from where did I come from what am I doing here and what happens next and in relation to everything not only your human aspect so um if you want Angel says that those moments represents a kind of spiritual aminesia where we go we we completely forget about anything related to spirit and we just go into you know uh materialism, rationalism and and and probabilities and all those things that can be proven and attested to us that they do exist. >> Yeah, absolutely. It's it's it's very interesting, right? And uh um if we perhaps um bridge into a a similar but not the same question, which is if you think about rationalism, but there is also a existentialist philosophical boom at the time, right? And with that that uh um um we we come to see the idea people at a time that uh insisted on the the concept that to see is to believe, right? Um um and uh and if you think about it, this concept now is uh maybe outdated, right? Especially if you we talk about quantum physics which is uh we need to believe first in order to see it later. Can we maybe get into that a little bit longer

s concept now is uh maybe outdated, right? Especially if you we talk about quantum physics which is uh we need to believe first in order to see it later. Can we maybe get into that a little bit longer because I think it's fascinating what's happening historically speaking. We have all of all of this um um rationalism and existentialism etc. and leads to where we are today. But can we talk a little bit about how quantum physics is also bringing a different aspect to that concept? >> Sure. But we have to travel back a little bit. >> Okay. >> Thousand years. >> Yes. >> H when Thomas >> Yes. Yes. Doubting Thomas. Yes. >> Doubting Thomas. He said, "I don't believe if I don't see it." And to him was not enough just to see. He had to to touch the wounds of Jesus to believe. >> And so we may say that the precursor >> Yeah. >> history that we have to that which let's say, you know, let's be fair with him. Of course, we all would like to see certain things to to understand or to believe more, you know. I >> not every time, but quite often when I have to use the microwaves at home, >> yeah, >> I I just think about this. I just say, you know, I I I put it in this little box, something that I want to warm or my popcorn and one minute, two minutes, it's going to happen. Some It's like a It is like magic. You know, you put it in this little box, you don't see anything, >> right? You don't see anything and then it it happens. it comes you know there the corn the popcorn and the the the food is warm and all of those things but there was a there is also the historical context during this time of you know uh this era of you know spiritual amnesia right >> being rational was infection uh where we have those thinkers philosophers like Jean Paul Albert and others that would come with that epistemologist saying if something cannot be seen, measured or proven empirically, it is not real. >> Yeah. >> And so we we go with that because it's very it's very very simplistic way of uh going about in life. But then quantum

ething cannot be seen, measured or proven empirically, it is not real. >> Yeah. >> And so we we go with that because it's very it's very very simplistic way of uh going about in life. But then quantum mechanics came and changed it completely. this uh this way of being viewing things with uh with theories uh and observations that when you know that is going to to happen but not necessarily you can see things directly. you you just can't be are able to infer them mathematically or probabistically but not necessarily seeing like you know >> like like me in the microwave I I don't see >> but something happens and I know that there is something behind that and so there is this uncertainties theories like the Heisenberg's uncertainty principle or the surrender shindiggers cat because there is only probability is the cat going to be alive or dead. You cannot say if it's just a certain implication now uh is that belief precedes perception. But now we will see a different perspective on that where uh quantum physics show to us that uh we we have a we have a different way that belief or or conceptual acceptance often precedes empirical verification. So faith is not irrational. It aligns with those deeper truths that science is only the beginning to the approach and bring then it brings them together because now we can we are much more free to explore things without being afraid of being called it um non-scient scientific or you know weird people that just believe without uh having this empirical verification. And and there is uh one thing that the logical principle that they say it only takes one counter example to falsify a universal claim. You see you have a universal claim and all of a sudden there is just one thing that comes and say like you know a nipple that fold. Oh, we have a law of gravity, right? All of a sudden. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. >> No, I I love it. I love where where we're talking about this this growth and it's it's important for us to remember all of us that uh in in those 300 years

ight? All of a sudden. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. >> No, I I love it. I love where where we're talking about this this growth and it's it's important for us to remember all of us that uh in in those 300 years we're talking about uh 17th century not 17th but 18th century 19th century and 20th century there's so much growth uh humanity just uh if you're referencing quantum physics that did a quantum leap in moving away from what humanity was into what the humanity is and becoming, right? The the the the new plateau that we're reaching as we speak. And uh and we have to see the difficulty of those scientists of the time because they really in in in in a word that may be too dramatic here, Jada, but they revolutionized the paradigms of the time. Right? We're talking about all the incredible for thousand plus years the incredible power of a church we're talking about now Christianity western society right but the incredible power and pull that led to to many what we could call atrocities we're talking about the crusades we talk about the inquisition and many other um extravagances of that structure of one's faith, right? And so as these scientists are slowly chiseling away all that what was this monolithic belief system of the time they could not go back they had to be very um evidence-based. I have to like Thomas doubting Thomas I have to touch it to believe. Therefore, uh the entire relationship with the divine became at risk, right? And I I'm really interested um to to to think about where what's what's next? What's next? But do you want to say something else? Yeah. >> And the thing sometimes with science is that you know you have to be evidence based. But to what point? >> I remember once I was in um spiritualist congress on on mediumship and uh a presenter were were were talking about you know some uh some experiments uh you know people researchers were conducting uh in relation to uh a spirit that they call the blue blue dame white dame. I don't remember quite well that is is in

t you know some uh some experiments uh you know people researchers were conducting uh in relation to uh a spirit that they call the blue blue dame white dame. I don't remember quite well that is is in California there is this a certain place that this spirit normally appears and so the scientists go there the SC those that also study part of psychology goes there and um they go and attest that the spirit is there. Then few years later they go again and attest the spirit is there. years later they go they've been doing that for a hundred years >> and I say when enough is enough for them to say yes really there is a spirit there there is a spirit and and tell everyone so they don't do that it's it's it comes to the point that it like you know to have to say okay I touched and saw you once but until I started I I I I touch you and see you a hund times I will not be convinced it. And so there is this uh um difficulty that we have of uh you know >> having to let new paradigms be in our lives and and when we think about those scientists like you were mentioning >> uh Louis Pastel you know he was ridiculed because he was looking for something that could not be seen. Yeah, >> you would say there are uh microorganisms and they they play a huge role in our lives. But no and Thomas Edison and Marie Guri and yes that almost went to to to burn at stake and even Einstein and and and at the same time when we think about faiths like the ones of when Vto Victor Franco that preserved his soul was not food or shelter but this belief in himself and the there is an essence in terms of of living. There is a purpose of life then you can go on even when obstacle seems uncsurmountable and uh this is faith >> and is you know like daring you have to be a daredevil. >> Yes. Yes. But uh you you speak of Victor Frankle and uh in his you know the book that is most accessible um it's it's so interesting when or heartbreaking when you when you think about those individuals that they believed I don't

k of Victor Frankle and uh in his you know the book that is most accessible um it's it's so interesting when or heartbreaking when you when you think about those individuals that they believed I don't know if you if you remember this part of the book right they believed that the end of war was going to be December before it ended. right the December, the Christmas before and uh there was a spring in their steps. there's this I can I can I can hold on in this terrible life in in in Awitz and and then it didn't and at that point their faith in that life with a meaning with a purpose just disintegrated and those that kept on with their faith they they waited they were able to to survive the horrors of what they're going through until the and a few months later. So I just I always that passage in his book always touches me profoundly because it's so close and and some of us if we think about it in our lives right Josara independent of uh extreme chaos or disasters or anything but we may be going through a very difficult challenging time and having faith is we are going to survive it. we are strong enough. We are going to overcome and and and continue to have faith is critical despite of what are the challenges the size of challenges that are coming at us. It can be a disease. It can be a loss of someone. It can be I don't know there's so many different things that can come to us and it's important that we we believe and that we keep our faith that we'll be okay. But just go ahead. >> And you see it's this positive thinking is this faith inner faith that keeps you going that is not necessarily a byproduct of any kind of miracle. Yeah, >> of course we know and when we we know in terms of you know people that have have been diagnoses with a a terminal disease uh and sometimes you have you know two people the same thing the same dicauses one have faith the other has not one dies in two two two days the other one lasts two two more years why >> you know if chemically speaking bi

have you know two people the same thing the same dicauses one have faith the other has not one dies in two two two days the other one lasts two two more years why >> you know if chemically speaking bi Logically speaking, it was absolutely the same. >> And so we may not know why. And as in this example that you said, you know, they they they gather within themselves the >> the power to survive if it was up to a dead a deadline that they they they imagined themselves. >> Not after that. So it it was clear to them that they had the power, they could continue, but because it seemed to them that it was not accomplished in the the the date that they were expecting, they they just lost control of them themselves in in this. So it's >> yeah, >> it's something that we have to think about. Um and and I know it's it's very hard. Um, you know, many of you, of course, most of you that are hearing us now may not know, but I have been this year. I have been through a lot of struggle and had to go through, you know, nothing new things that people have to go sometimes, you know, when you get to a certain age and um um spine surgery and uh the recovery has been very hard. >> It's been two months since the surgery and I'm still not able to to walk and there are times that I think I'm not going to walk again. And immediately I come in you know I I have to listen to a podcast like this why you guys are listening to me now you know faith and believe that there is no reason why you it's just taking time is it is process it is taking longer talk more to yourselves have this belief and this positivity and continue in this struggle because like Jesus said it only if we have faith safe as a small as a mustard seed. >> Yes, >> nothing will be impossible to us. And so we are there are so many things that we do not understand that we do not see and things that are working in our favor. And now is spiritually speaking we are discovering a whole new world of possibilities of me doing out of body

ngs that we do not understand that we do not see and things that are working in our favor. And now is spiritually speaking we are discovering a whole new world of possibilities of me doing out of body experiences of communication with spirits of spirits living and having their activities all of those things and me returning again in a new body. Of course my spine will be better that time and and but this is it. We we we cannot lose faith. We cannot lose faith in ourselves because you >> in my case particularly if I lose faith I'm not going to be working properly well the way I have to to do you know go through the path where there is necessary physiootherapy and all of those things the exercises and certain foods and and medicine that will help me improve overall if I don't feel like things are working. I'm going to give up all of that. And of course, they are not going to work. And then you'll say, see how it didn't work. It didn't work because you didn't do your part. >> Yes. >> Help yourself and heavens will help you. So what I have mine now. >> Yeah. But uh but uh you you mentioned right. So it's Matthew passage which is beautiful. Uh if you where Jesus says if you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can say to this mountain move from here to there and it will move nothing will be impossible for you. So Josada nothing is impossible for you and for all of us here nothing is impossible for us. And of course, uh, Jesus was not talking about moving geological formations, right? It's important for all of us to to remember that when he speaks of the mountains, he's really talking about all of our inner obstacles, our inner struggles, our fears, our limitations, old pattern, even spine surgery, right? They all seem incredibly stuck and unmovable. But we with with faith right uh is as I love the visual the the mustard seed is about this big right but as small as it is it it's all it is required because it will work the same way when nurtured that little faith small as a a mustard seed

ove the visual the the mustard seed is about this big right but as small as it is it it's all it is required because it will work the same way when nurtured that little faith small as a a mustard seed will transform our inner life our difficulties our challenges our external know circumstances and uh and we we just need to to understand the power of faith. And I'd say um if we're going back right to what we discussed today, I love it because we we went from enlightenment uh rationalism to uh spiritism to Christianity, from quantum physics to those teachings of Jesus. Um we can say faith isn't just a feeling it is indeed a transformative force. Um Josara before we go do you have any any thoughts that you want to leave everybody with? >> Yeah again just I think to to um finalize this faith it is the conquest of the spirit through our evolutionary journey. It is something that we will have to do to to to go through our process of individuation and religion may come and go but certainty born of experience is always going to remain. So let's let's think about it. Let's you know um have faith put fear aside there. Yeah. Yeah. >> This new world because if we are imagining it is possible to happen >> let us imagine good things and >> and good good things good thoughts to the world and uh and then we will see how far this this faith can go and change everything in our surroundings. >> Thank you. Thank you every Thank you Jada. Thank you everyone. Right. Let us keep our faith and I hope this episode may inspire you as much as it's inspired me to to really cultivate our faith and that faith that is not only comforting but also creative. Remember all the examples of those uh innovators, scientists, architects, artist, right? but also think in terms of also transformative and alive in in our daily inner world. And for all of you, if this is the first time that you're listening to a program, please note the the program psychology and spirituality are weekly episodes are there, but they're

daily inner world. And for all of you, if this is the first time that you're listening to a program, please note the the program psychology and spirituality are weekly episodes are there, but they're also based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus. We hope that uh we're able to take some nuggets from our conversation to perhaps expand your own concepts of spirituality and psychology. Uh I wanted to thank you Josada. I want to thank all of you who are here with us today. But most important, I want to thank all of our sponsors, Monsano Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, and I'm in Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the Medical Spiritist Association. Thank you so much, Jos. Thank you, everyone, and see you next time.