Ep 117 - The Journey of the Self: the Path to Inner Transformation

Hello everyone, welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore this intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result we capture timeless wisdom containing both se both fields. I'm your host, Marcia Trojano. And joining me today is someone that I consider a very special guest, someone who has dedicated much of his work to understanding, exploring, and discussing this intersection of spiritual wisdom and human growth. Please welcome Yuri Castro. Yuri, how you doing? I'm very good. Hello to everyone who's listening or watching us. It's always an honor to be here. Oh, wonderful. Well, Yuri, today I'm proposing we have this conversation that I hope to be enlightening to all of us, including myself, right? Let's um dive into some of the teachings by Jonah D'Angelus because I would like to to discuss this idea of an evolutionary journey of the self, right? How do we get to this? How do we understand even the path and how this path can lead us to a true sense of inner transformation and uh I would like Yodi um to to welcome right as I said before and I know that everyone here with me today are eager to also um hear from you and receive some nuggets of enlightenment. Uh as we explore this deep insights that Joanna the Angels has offered us on the topic of the journey of the self. Yuri in her teachings Joanna the Angels speaks of this existence. This I I I I touch myself in my shoulder every time I think about this body, right? This um corporeal earthly existence. And uh while we are in in a in a time where everybody and I hear that from many different uh platforms and or channels many people called we live only once right uh make sure that you enjoy life and there's always this uh touch points that tells us in the wide widream general um uh areas of input of our lives that life is brief. We right physical life is brief. I agree. But that we in this the brevity of life corporeal life that we

that tells us in the wide widream general um uh areas of input of our lives that life is brief. We right physical life is brief. I agree. But that we in this the brevity of life corporeal life that we have to go with a gusto and really enjoy every aspect of sensorial physical tangible experience for it to to have some meaning. But Joanna D'Angelus, she speaks of this existence from a different point that I would like for us to talk. She speaks about this valuable learning experience. Right? So we are here to learn and she she says that the learning experience points to the idea of the self right in as a the higher essence of our self taps into the collective unconscious. So from that perspective we can think that a journey to the self right is a journey that it will be fraught will be filled with oh moments of joys and triumphs as well as oh the moments where we try we fail we get hurt right but in this ups and downs if you will we are ultimately leading ourselves into the goal of integrating our ego, the unconscious mind, and lead us to what she calls this primordial archetype, which is our divine essence, the the the god within. Right? So, Yuri sending to you some thoughts. Let's maybe start by if you will unpacking what is Jonah trying to say right in your experience um how can we uh with your own words understand this idea of integration of the ego and the unconscious? How can we tap into that concept in more practical terms? What does it even look like in our day-to-day lives? Perfect. I think you have some very interesting um thoughts there. The idea is I I mean when we think about the self with a capital S as Joanna says as Kung says uh we're thinking about this integration. So this process of this of integration as we go through life is extremely important because as you said very well nowadays there is this sort of culture or this understanding of the yolo. You only live once. So we try to please our senses. We try to make everything that's material better in an

you said very well nowadays there is this sort of culture or this understanding of the yolo. You only live once. So we try to please our senses. We try to make everything that's material better in an attempt to make us feel better, the inside feel better. But the reality of it is yes this life is brief when compared to the immortality of the soul through to through the full individuation for for the accomplishment of the self with a capital S when we fully integrate that as we saw with our master Jesus the biggest and greatest example we've had of uh a being that was that has reached this process of the individuation and was extremely integrated and still came here to teach us. So this idea I think of the integration yes it will pass through as you said very well these trials and tribulations and these challenges that we have to go through we have to overcome them because as Joanna says very well uh in her books she she's always talking about how one is always growing the person is always growing at every existence every time that we are here on earth we're learning something every time like and I'm speaking over so it's more it's shorter for us to understand but every time we are here we are incarnated we are definitely learning something as we go through life and I think this process the trials and errors and the mistakes that we make they serve to and we can talk about the shadow as well eventually but they serve for they serve to for us to understand a little bit more of the shadow a little bit more of the ego and the understanding of how those how everything sort of connects. Yeah, I I I love it. And and I think two things u Yodi uh number one when we talk about all the elements right that uh comes to play in in this material existence this this incarnation this life that we live as our uh personality. It's almost like a play or even a movie, right? The actor Yes. comes in and and there are all the sets of circumstances, the plot, the the aptitudes, the attitudes of the actors,

s our uh personality. It's almost like a play or even a movie, right? The actor Yes. comes in and and there are all the sets of circumstances, the plot, the the aptitudes, the attitudes of the actors, how that actor that the character that the actor plays really brings into certain elements that will lead to the ultimate in in a fiction perspective, right? the ultimate goal of resolution of a major conflict. I think it speaks to us in our own journeys, right? We all this yeah this orchestration of what is life the family that we are born from the education the set of friends if we for example for I know a lot of people here yi uh that uh uh are uh people that their parents were part of the armed uh the the the army or navy etc. And as that lifestyle they kept moving every two years in a different city, in a different country, a different continent, right? And their their journeys are much more different than for example mine. I I lived I was born in this house and until I got married, that's the only structure physical structure that I called home. the same city. Um, therefore my identity are uh and and all of the things that I call home are deeply integrated with that site that physicality th those uh people in the neighborhood so on so forth, right? But um another aspect that uh you you mention here brought me a thought, right? The the yolo thought process. You only live once. And this this desire, this zest for life really equates with, as you mentioned, pleasing our senses. And the inherent paradox of that is because we are focused on you know fulfilling our lives with uh opportunities for say experiences or whatever it is that we we can touch right the more technical tangible part of our lives but it's really a symptom of our emptiness, that existential, right? Existential emptiness. And the more we address that emptiness with things that are ephemeral, the more empty we become, right? Yes. I think again you're touching on very important psychological topics

Existential emptiness. And the more we address that emptiness with things that are ephemeral, the more empty we become, right? Yes. I think again you're touching on very important psychological topics because again this this idea of pleasing our senses and uh pursuing material pleasures. This is very much ingrained and on par with our own evolution as spirits. We are in a in a planet that is very much materialistic and where the matter still exerts a strong influence on us given our evolution as immortal spirits. So it is only natural and that we would find the matter exerting this much control over our thoughts, control over what we're going to do. We even have in our brains the way they are developed, we have these dopamine pathways where we're let's say social media or or uh material pleasures they they give us this quick reward of dopamine, this quick shot of dopamine. Yes. On on on demand nowadays even. So it it is it becomes very much that addictive sort of personality or addictive um uh persona to the pleasures and the material things. So it is very much tied to what you said this the the emptiness. It's also tied to this idea of we're still evolving. We're still very materialistic because of our condition as spirits because of the planet that houses us in this evolutionary process that we're currently in. And if I may add another thing too, when you mention it, it made me think of when you said the emptiness made me think of Joanna D'Angelus in in her books when she's talking um she's saying she goes to say that there is a natural tendency for some people to feel sad. She says there's a natural tendency for some people especially like nowadays human beings to uh have this melancholic state and feel this sadness. And she even brings it up that sometimes this this sadness now diving into a little more of the psychological aspect. She's saying that this sadness often times is the guilt that was internalized and is is being externalized as self-punishment from other reincarnations. Yeah. Yeah.

e more of the psychological aspect. She's saying that this sadness often times is the guilt that was internalized and is is being externalized as self-punishment from other reincarnations. Yeah. Yeah. So again showing this continum continuum of our existence and how everything interconnects the things we're we still need to learn they very much interconnect with things that we may have made a mistake in past life or we may have not gathered that lesson yet so we need to come here and then try again and learn from it again. What do you think? Yeah I I I love it. I I I love the where you're putting here the the root cause if you will, right? We we feel something, we may feel empty, we may feel sad. I tend to if I look at the the landscape of my community right Yori the majority of individuals that I know and I'm speaking to professionally speaking right very very very successful people uh financially with their family they're object meeting their objectives everything is on par yet the level of anxiety Judy is unbelievable able and so it's it's my heart cries when I see that that uh and it's you know we we can think about it that living is not for the faint of heart we all are somehow subject but even then the anxiety for having to meet the standards and demands of this world right it's counterbalance to what you're saying and that is a a topic uh that Joanna brings whenever Whenever she's speaking about guilt that somehow the root cause of it all for the sadness or even for the anxiety uh etc. or any other um psychological you know behavioral issues that we're going through uh psych and behavior issues. We are we are really talking about the fragmented right uh uh area of our psyche. Our soul, our spirit is going through life but feeling very much not whole, not uh it just grasping between the duality of living life as a spirit in the material world. So those polarities keep almost like a pingpong. I'm here but I'm not there and I'm there but I'm not. Yes. Right. So absolutely

g between the duality of living life as a spirit in the material world. So those polarities keep almost like a pingpong. I'm here but I'm not there and I'm there but I'm not. Yes. Right. So absolutely ping pong is a great is a great uh way of of looking at it and also one thing that ties very well with what you said and I think is is this idea of free will that Joanna D'Angelus so aptly talks about in her books. this idea of um through our reincarnations that we have the free will is is what allows us is this instrument that allows us to choose and she says between uh good or evil, joy or sadness like she gives opposites like that. And I really appreciate that part and her saying that because she then says that the only determinism, the only fatality that exists is plenty. Like the only the only thing that is certain and is this that's determined is that we will reach planitude that we will reach this process of individuation that we'll reach that point eventually a long time from now I think but we will reach we will reach that point. So that's a beautifully optimistic way of looking at something that seems sometimes so so drastic, so uh drab even where we're thinking, oh deterministic, you know, it's it's bad. We're no doomed to suffer. No, we're doomed for planitude. We're doomed for quotation marks and doomed for we're destined to planitude, you know. So Yudi here, right? You you are referencing uh actually two the content of two books that I love by the way by Joanna Deandre. Number one is the integral human being. Yes. Right. So she she speaks about all the things that uh potentially are distracting us from ourselves or moving away from ourselves and uh uh the the the need if you will to integrate to to create a sense of wholeness into our journeys in that book the integral human being and the next book in her series is plentitude that you just referenced where in the movie she talks about many different things but one of the items Yuri that in in that the third book of the series I

and the next book in her series is plentitude that you just referenced where in the movie she talks about many different things but one of the items Yuri that in in that the third book of the series I believe planitude um in that she suggests that this journey if you if we're talking about the journey of the self right this journey that we go through allows us to uh confront but also overcome psych ological conflict. So we we talked about this before, right? Y the the idea of all the suffering that the journey in a physical existence are really inherit in in in those paths in our choices, free will, right? And the consequences of our choices. But she she suggests that um as we are you know overcoming transcending our conflicts psychological conflicts in this case um uh as we do that it it really a mechanism it's a catapult for us to free from the burdens from the past. Right? So as we become freer in fear uh once we overcome those conflicts we are able or enabled if you will to be closer to a h how can I say an understanding of the divine within. So it seems um that this process can also tie quite well. So we're talking about planitude, we talked about the integral human being, but with also tying with the idea that Kusavung brought to us the idea of individuation, which you know in in so many words just means that in the process of individuation, we you here in our life, me, we all becoming our true authentic selves. Can you speak a little bit more about uh these psychological conflicts and how it is important for us to face them not hide away from them so that we can overcome absolutely and I think again it goes through this idea as you're saying before of life there's no life without pain the life that we know there's there's no life without pain or suffering the suffering we discussed this in a different like a different episode of of this podcast but this idea that we should see or could see perhaps the suffering and the shortcomings, the pain that we sometimes face as instruments

this in a different like a different episode of of this podcast but this idea that we should see or could see perhaps the suffering and the shortcomings, the pain that we sometimes face as instruments for our own process of this integration that you're talking about this this eventual uh the reaching of our planitude. So the integration of the processes looking at at the conflicts that we still have within us because everything it's internal we bring with us these conflicts from other lives from other uh points of our existence and we must face them. We must address them. We must uncover them, understand them. And I'll just make a parenthesis here often times with professional help. Um, but we we the the eventual goal is to uncover them, understand them so we can address them because otherwise they're not going to go away on their own. They're not going to if they became they they continue to be unsolved or unresolved perhaps we can say they're going to carry on. If we if we have something that we must accomplish, let's say now more on the spiritual side. If we have something we must accomplish in this life or we set know forth as a as our goal and we're shying away from that, we're hiding from that. But we need that specific thing to reach the next level. We will have to face it eventually. So it becomes important for us to understand that there is no running away from these conflicts eventually. You know, we need to uncover them. We need to address them and treat them. Yeah. So um back to your idea specifically of the role of free will right and uh Oh yes. So we we understand that um from you know spiritualistic spiritist and Joanna the anggeles uh um how they bring the notion of free will. It's the idea that through our reincarnation and through our you know repeated prior experiences in this lifetime but before this one. I I love that free will is this incredible uh treasure that each one of us have in our hands every moment of our lives. And it is the idea that uh we are given the

n this lifetime but before this one. I I love that free will is this incredible uh treasure that each one of us have in our hands every moment of our lives. And it is the idea that uh we are given the choice right the the freedom to choose but also in that mechanism of free will and of course the cause and effect right that is part of u of that free will we are given the chance to grow we're given the chance to learn uh from failures and successes But ultimately ultimately we're given the chance to to forge this path to shape our destinies, right? Um can you comment and I I'd love for you to hear I don't know why but it the the thought popped in my mind Yuri that as I I said we are given the chance to forge uh our path. Um and somebody uh was telling me that uh the current um I don't know if you have any work with that or or any experience but uh the as as a parent maybe you do but the current uh generation of parents are no longer considered called the the helicopter parents right that hover around looking to make sure the kids are all right but now they are the generation of the lawnmower for parents where they are actually creating the path for their children instead of allowing the children to choose their own path allowing the children to fail and learn from their failure. Any any thoughts on that? Have you have you thought about it? You as a a young parent, right? Yes. And what you're referencing, I think it's uh it's from the book The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Hayden. It's a great book on psychology bestseller I think last year or the year before and he mentions some he makes he makes that analogy where he says that there is no more helicopter not there's no more usually I mean before there were a lot of helicopter parents but now the generation he says it's the snow plower so like it's just the snow plow trucking the snow plow just extremely like removing everything in its path or just you know destroying everything creating the path not necessarily being the

now plower so like it's just the snow plow trucking the snow plow just extremely like removing everything in its path or just you know destroying everything creating the path not necessarily being the helicopter watching you know the the child and everything because again we are and and we are going through this period of transformation and if we talk of planetary transition all of that but bringing more to ourselves our own lives we're seeing this change in society in general society in general especially the western world where we see this idea of the snowplower let's call the snowplower parents where they're they don't want their children to suffer they don't want their children to see pain. They don't want their children to uh have to discover things on their own. They everything is so easy nowadays because technology has allowed for a lot of comfort in our lives and a lot of safety. But the problem with the safety, which is a term that Jonathan Hay, the author, uses. The problem with the safety is is exactly this idea that we are we are depriving them. We're robbing their experiences for growth. We're robbing the that necessary uh growth such as the caterpillar to become butterfly needs to break out of the of the the shell themselves. If we go there, we cut it open, the butterfly dies. So this idea of we need to face some things on our own as children as well and as parents we must be aware of that that they will encounter suffering out there that they will encounter suffering even inside their own as they grow up and they if they find themselves without the tools. Yeah. And and it's very interesting um with the sense of safety, right? It is the concept that is born out of love. Would you would you agree? It is 100% born out of love. And as a parent, like I'm always conscious of trying to like walk that line of how much how much free reign should I give? And if I'm seeing something, they're playing on a playground, how much should I intervene and when should I intervene?

s of trying to like walk that line of how much how much free reign should I give? And if I'm seeing something, they're playing on a playground, how much should I intervene and when should I intervene? But if they're doing some risky things to develop their bodies and their minds and their reflexes, I must allow that. Even if I see them, I'm like, "Oh, I rather be there under them to hold them if they fall." But uh it's it's sort of this conscience of they need to go through that. They need to learn. If they fall, they fall and then they will learn from that. I have to I have to share two things from my own experience if it's okay, Yodi. But uh you know I was the considered uh in a in a family of six I was considered the perfect child at young child like no problem at school love to read love to study never ever ever went against my my parents will or dictim right to do this do that I just I was disobedient child h until I was no longer That's what happens adolescence, right? And and I I I went through so many disruptions that uh it was very interesting. But my mom would say to me when she could see clearly that I was in the crash course to to very bad choices, right, at right at that age. And she would say, "Honey, right, don't do it. you will blah blah blah and I would tell mom let me fail and she said why would I do that to you because you're going there but I have already been there she would she would reference two-way street right that she already been there and came back and has learned from her own failure so she did not want me to to fail like her so I thought it was very interesting this this battle of wills where I would say let me fail mother please. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's an it's an interesting piece that you bring because yes as parents if we could choose to have our children never to suffer, never to have pain, we would choose so out of love. The safety is born out of love. We want to create a safe environment, want to create everything that's safe. But we also need

ldren never to suffer, never to have pain, we would choose so out of love. The safety is born out of love. We want to create a safe environment, want to create everything that's safe. But we also need to understand that when they go out there Yeah. when they go to school, when they go to work, when they eventually build their own families, when when their life carries on, we're not going to be there and they will suffer. They will have pain. They will have challenges that we won't be there to help them because one, we sometimes we can't and two, it's it's unfeasible. So it is this this constant constant process of maturing as a parent understanding how much should I let them fail and how much should I help you know and when tying back to our conversation of this path of of the journey of of the self of this path of inner to inner transformation we think of ourselves also like the adults who are listening to this of how we were as kids how we were raised and all of that what do we bring and also So what do we bring from our past experiences, from our past lives? Because those children that we have next to us, these are immortal spirits. They carry some luggage with them that we we don't know about. At least consciously we don't know about. So we must understand that they have their own challenges. And sometimes if we try to take the opportunity away from them, we may be again be robbing an opportunity a moment for them to learn something they need to learn. Yeah, it it's very quite quite interesting and remarkable, right? Uh uh the that you bring to us the family unit, right? this this cell that the the most uh important cell of our society, our world is each member and how we two things two contradictory things number one is that we're there um to provide that imprint and the idea here Yuri is that I I always remember um St. Francis of Aizi, right? Where he would say, "Preach the gospel all the time. When and if you need it, use your words." I love that because our our

the idea here Yuri is that I I always remember um St. Francis of Aizi, right? Where he would say, "Preach the gospel all the time. When and if you need it, use your words." I love that because our our examples, right, are indeed what has this indelible imprint in our children. No matter how much freedom they have or not have to make mistakes or be successful, they see us as parents and they emulate from what we do, our choices. It's our imprinting if you will. But the other aspect of it if I may say here is what you brought up uh and I just wanted to repeat for my own words the idea that in that cell while the parents are imprinting through their examples their their uh I I guess the compass right the the the north star that we hold dear and true that passes on to the next generation. We all of those family members, we are all immortal spirits. Meaning that how old is your youngest child, Yodi? The the oldest is five and a half. The youngest is one and a half. Well, let's pretend that one and a half yearear-old child may be the oldest spirit, right? It can be and the most experienced, the most enlightened. It does not mean that you as a father um will not do everything to the best of your ability and knowledge and intention to to help mold and love the child, right? But it could be that the child is actually going to teach all of you in your family with the enlightenment that he already brought to to this to this life. Right? So I love if we can perhaps talk a little bit about how the concept of free will interconnects with the the the concept of reincarnation in this context of spiritual growth, right? How uh how those two forces guide us to have this more conscious or even more purposeful existence? I think one of the things that Leon Denise says, another author that I know you and I you like as well. Um, yeah, he's he says the the the soul is the author of its own destiny or something like that. And I love that that this idea that this is free will in a sentence, you know, we are the authors

well. Um, yeah, he's he says the the the soul is the author of its own destiny or something like that. And I love that that this idea that this is free will in a sentence, you know, we are the authors of our own destinies. We are we are the ones that are going to either speed up the process or slow down the process. Although progress is inevitable, uh, but we are either going to speed up the process or slow the process based on what I said before. How much of these conflicts are we addressing and and and trying to improve from? How much are we actually facing inward? Because one of the things too that Joanna tying to Joanna D'Angelus now says about um the idea of the inner transformation. Yeah. Yeah. And the the inner self she talks about how um trying to remember exactly what what it was how if if we have basically if we are at peace within nothing from the outside can disturb us. Yeah. Right. So like I think that is very powerful when we think about that she talks about these adversaries or or the adversities themselves themselves from the outside they can't do anything harmful to those that's what she says to those who are free within to those who are free within so I think that again free will making our own choices and understanding that those choices will have consequences either positive or negative either to speed up the process or slow down the process of evolution of our own selves. We understand then that it's it's very much looking inward and making this change without expecting something from the outside. And I think that is the biggest trap or the biggest downfall that we often times have when we're trying to go for this journey of you know of of individuation or the journey of the self with a capital S when let's say we're working on forgiveness. Yeah. Yeah. And we expect the other person if we make that step like I'm going to forgive and we expect them to forgive us and they don't all of a sudden it becomes so hard so much harder for us to forgive and vice versa. So expecting

r person if we make that step like I'm going to forgive and we expect them to forgive us and they don't all of a sudden it becomes so hard so much harder for us to forgive and vice versa. So expecting something from the outside is this I like to say trap is this thing where it's almost like a a a pitfall that we have in this journey of self-discovery and inner change. What do you think? I I love it. But I have to go back to what you're saying about forgiveness right in this as as you mentioned because we we devoted several episodes uh in in the in recent uh uh months to uh discussing or reference the parable of the prodigal son. And what comes to my mind? Excellent. When you talked about it uh Yodi is the fact that uh the prodigal son is the young child, right? The youngest child that does fails all of the things that he did and he comes back through the path of inner inner uh transformation. but also before he actually went through the his own inner transformation, the path of awakening his own consciousness, right? He goes, I would imagine this is my words in a in in 2,000 years ago in Palestine, very different. But let's pretend he is a young man today and he goes like, "Oh my goodness, what did I do?" Right? I really made a big mistake. What to do? what to do. And he comes back and he comes back not only with a sense of guilt for doing it wrong to the father, to the community, to everyone, right? to himself. But in a sense of humility, he comes back to confess to what he before was a very naive young person doing all sorts of wrong, right? But he comes back asking for forgiveness. And the father, what does he do? Yudi, he forgives immediately. Unc, you know, unconditionally. He just embraces him. He kisses the the young men upon his return. What I find it interesting here, what you're talking about is the fact that uh the older brother is quite upset when he sees the father forgiven. It's not about uh the act of forgiveness but this is something that we need to to to be aware

ou're talking about is the fact that uh the older brother is quite upset when he sees the father forgiven. It's not about uh the act of forgiveness but this is something that we need to to to be aware somehow somewhere in our lives when we fail and we hurt and due to all the movements that we go through in in in our path of self-discovery and in a transformation we will ask and receive forgiveness. But they are outsiders of this process that may not be yet at a point to even accept the forgiveness that is happening outside. Do do you know what I mean? He was really taken how father could you do this? How could you forgive? As if forgiveness was something uh bad, right? And I and I really like that idea for us to to be aware. Have we done that? How have we seen somebody that let's say this is completely fictitious, but I know somebody that did some really, really difficult things to Yudi, right? To you specifically, Yudi. And but the two of you reach a state of forgiveness. And I go like, no, no, no, no, no. uh uh the drama in my head still fraught with conflicts. I I am still judging that person for hurting you. Isn't it interesting how those conflicts can linger in our minds beyond the conflict itself being resolved? Absolutely. And and the parable I love you brought that up because just something John also talks about the prodigal son. Yeah. It's very much applicable today. Yeah, it is it is one of those another one of those thousands of things that Jesus said uh that is very much applicable today. And we have these you know the three let's call the characters of of the story the two sons and the father and it's interesting because Joan is talking about how we must um we must go and face these experiences and then come back. So like we get out of ourselves to get in you know inside our own selves and make that change in a way. And I I love this sort of like imagining this movement of going out to go in or going out and then to discover something inside of us. And

you know inside our own selves and make that change in a way. And I I love this sort of like imagining this movement of going out to go in or going out and then to discover something inside of us. And what did the father do? The father allowed him to go. Which is interesting as well. Most people don't focus on the beginning of the parable as well. Understanding that um the the when the the young son, you know, said to his father like, "Oh, uh I want my shares of the state." like everything he was he was asking even though the father knew it was not probably not going to end well from the material sense. The father eventually let the young son go, which is very much what we were talking about before. Like he let the young son go, his youngest go, and then once he made those mistakes that the that father in the parable probably predicted, he comes back and he he embraces him. He's the merciful father. And of course Jesus was making this parable uh to illustrate this idea of our heavenly father of God being this merciful being that allows us to have free will such as the father of the parable and allow us to exercise our free will to go and make mistakes but then we learn from those mistakes. And this is something very valuable from the parable to understand that the youngest son learned from his mistakes came back with humility. Yeah. and saw a merciful father embracing him. And I have to say, I mentioned to you my mother in my prior dialogue with her many lifetimes ago, it feels like, right, decades ago, she like this parable was very merciful. She knew she knew it. And I somehow influenced her to accept me to keep going on that course that I forged and head on toward failure. She knew it. So when I came back hurt and all sorts of consequences from choices, she was there Yodori and she embraced lovingly toward me. Yeah. And and so I think again um not only the parable the words by Jesus Jesus as Luke brings to us I think it's chapter 15 right 15 yes yeah verses I think 11 to32 it's a so it's a

vingly toward me. Yeah. And and so I think again um not only the parable the words by Jesus Jesus as Luke brings to us I think it's chapter 15 right 15 yes yeah verses I think 11 to32 it's a so it's a relatively short parable but it it is so contemporary if you start to look at it from all the lessons that he gives to us right and then you look at the older son as well like you said so the younger one set off to a distant country. Everything went wrong and he came back and the father embraced him and the oldest son was angry and envious and they don't want uh they don't want what happened with his younger brother like him receiving everything and what what does the father do also embraces the older son. So again, understanding this difference in these two spirits, the younger and the older son, just how important it is to embrace both of them, to meet them where they're at with love. Yeah. Because if you think about it, right, the father the father is completely he has reached the journey of the self, right? He's there. The young son is completely not. And he goes da da da. And it sets sets the the process of course correction. So when he gets to the worst of the worst, right? Uh the the the the the deepest end uh he comes back, he start there's no more where he can go and fall even beyond that. He has reached the the worst of the worst. Then he comes back on a different movement toward himself. And I think this is for all of us. This is a lesson of, you know, be kind to yourself even when you're still going toward the the wrong direction in terms of uh using your free will and um you know dealing with a lot of uh difficulties. We're still coming back and we are able to come back and go back to the father. But as you said, the other brother, he is not there yet, right? He's stuck in a world of egoic judgment. He's still, in my opin, this is my opinion, everyone. Uh I believe the older brother was thinking, "Oh my goodness, he's coming back." You he's coming back and he wants more of

orld of egoic judgment. He's still, in my opin, this is my opinion, everyone. Uh I believe the older brother was thinking, "Oh my goodness, he's coming back." You he's coming back and he wants more of the inheritance. What can I do to control? what I can do is not forgive him and interfere in the father to forgive because if the young son was quote unquote dead there would be no more impact to the material existence that the older son has. One of the things that is very interesting as well and uh um in the book by Arutra uh on the parables right he discuss many many different perils but in this one he gives us a historical point of view right what was happening first century Palestine uh and he brings to to us an awareness that uh uh if somebody had made the same terrible choices and mistakes as the youngest child had done, Yodi, he would have been expelled, right? Oh, yes. Right. The the expelled. Get out of here. Get out of my house. Get out. And but the the the uh bit of a a tribe, right? the very small community of people that lived in that that place would most likely had judged him just like the older brother judged and you would have stoned that young man to death for what he did. So it's very interesting right the idea of uh can we shift our our our thoughts our ideas our judgment and look at this beautiful parable uh and look at it how can I be forgiven even when I have all the right to not can I be the the the the the bigger one here? Yes. And I mean it is very much what you're saying. And I I'm thinking of again the father. Uhhuh. And the parable was spoken 2,000 years ago basically. And if we think about it, it's still very much applicable today when we we're not at least, you know, stoning people anymore. So the idea is back then what he said, what Jesus said and when he said it was probably extremely outrageous for anybody to hear that and and think there's no way a father would would do that, you know. Um and we don't even have to go that far cuz the parable

when he said it was probably extremely outrageous for anybody to hear that and and think there's no way a father would would do that, you know. Um and we don't even have to go that far cuz the parable says that this the son squandered the money with property with prostitutes and a lot of again material things that we talked about the material pleasures. We don't even need to go that far. If we think of Paul or before when he was Saul of Tarsus and how his father basically treated him and he didn't do half the things that the younger son in the in the parable has said and so we can definitely definitely see how taking into the context of the zeitgeist or like the whatever is h was happening in that moment in time culturally speaking it was extremely unheard of of a father to do that and the older son is sort of speaking as the the collective voice of the people who are saying who are saying the voice saying there's no way why you why you showering him with all of this you know love all of these material things killing our fatten calf and the man the the the robe the mentor I forgot exactly what piece of clothing it was but the ring and all of those things why are you doing that after all he has done for our reputation cuz family back then was also very tied to the reputation it wasn't just the squandering of the material things, but how did you do it? So, you're you're staining, you know, the or tainting the name of the family. And the younger son has done that. So, the older one is basically the voice of the people back then. And it's so interesting to think that. Yeah. I I I I love where you're going, right? Because uh it is the zeitgeist, the spirit of an era, and we're talking about two millennia ago. But uh if you go back to today, right? Uh what what is our zeitgeist in relationship to to judgment? I think the stones that we metaphorically throw at each other uh has become an alltimes um violence, an alltimes peak of violence of uh just coming from everywhere because we do have things

judgment? I think the stones that we metaphorically throw at each other uh has become an alltimes um violence, an alltimes peak of violence of uh just coming from everywhere because we do have things such as social media where my opinions are the stones, right? I can I can stone you, Yodi. I can so easily I can crucify you. I can kill you with my words, my opinions and made it publicly like a stoning and uh there's very little that you can do once it's cast right up. Yes. Because technology has what it has done is has expanded expanded as mean like in terms of expansion this village. Yeah. Yeah. Before it was just a community as you're saying and things didn't get broadcast that much but now the the the metaphorical stones can come from all corners of the world because technology has allowed for that. Yeah. Yeah. But Yuri surprisingly we are at the end of our time. Do you have any final thought that you would like to to bring to everyone here before we go? I guess just in in the same vein of this inner transformation is to understand that we must transform ourselves inwardly first and not the outward aspect will come after we transform the inner aspect. That inner aspect the transformation of that is rife with pain and challenge and and shame and all those things that we must face in order to accomplish it. So let's not don't let's not give up in our journeys. Yeah. I'd like to say thank you and uh to to to leave my final words which is uh acknowledgment that uh one of the most impactful parts of what Joanna uh teaches and that we brought today really full frontal right is the idea that the psychological and spiritual growth are deeply interconnected right Yodi and uh as such Joanna D'Angelus brings uh um suggestions or or ideas that uh we uh whenever we face struggles, when we confront our challenges, we're actually opening ourselves up to the potential. It's not a a a a fatal thing but we are actually as we struggle as we are challenged as we fail that's when we are

hen we confront our challenges, we're actually opening ourselves up to the potential. It's not a a a a fatal thing but we are actually as we struggle as we are challenged as we fail that's when we are opening for our potential inner transformation inner growth and getting to where we need to be from that uh journey of the self right to to embark on the path for inner transformation. So I want to just say thank you. Thank you Yodi. Thank you everyone uh for tuning in to this episode. I do hope this uh very informal conversation uh has inspired you as much has inspired me to take the next step. Right? Let's go together on our own journey toward our self. Right? And until next time, I just want to say let us all embrace the idea of continuous evolving, continuous growth, continuous uh curiosity and and seeking answers. But uh for you, if this is the first time that you are listening to a program, please take a note that our psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based. you must have taken note of the works by Joanna Danggeles and uh we do hope that you're able to perhaps expand your own concepts on you know by juxtaposing spirituality and psychological uh concepts. We want to also thank you not only beyond you, Yudi, all of our sponsors, Monsano Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, Amy Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the medical spiritist association. We'll be back next week with another episode, so stay tuned. Until then, please take care and keep embracing the journey. Thanks everyone. Thank you.