E9 - Redeeming Oneself - Acknowledgement and Action

foreign welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion I'm your host Mercedes and with me is my co-host just out of corn God is the Secretary General of the international spiritus Council and former president and current Vice President of the United States spiritus Federation for the past 30 years Miss cordum could goad has been volunteering as counselor in fraternal conversation in several spiritist institutions as part of an outreach program if you want to know more about fraternal conversations please let us know the psychology in spirituality program is brought to you by Amy Brazil the Brazilian arm of the spiritist Medical Association the United States spiritus Federation the TV channel teve mansando Camino and the international spiritus Council make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already done so and if you'd like to check out our other channels you can check it at spiritist.us jasada is here with me to talk about a very interesting idea the concept of not only reconciliation but also Redemption and I would say redemption with ourselves so what comes to my mind is the fact that some church figures very prominent Church figures like Saint Augustine Saint Francis or Paul the Apostle come to my mind as great examples of individuals that came to a turning point and decided to take this road to Redemption as we begin this topic I want to just say before we go on please send us your questions um your comments your feedback via the chat window would love to hear from you and we'll have a special episode to address them we really appreciate you josada it's so good to have you return to the podcast like series of discussion today hello Marcia hello everyone first of all I would like to uh thanks everyone that has been following our podcast uh uh our episodes we have been having some wonderful feedback and and and people following this program and like Marcia said uh if you have questions if you want to you know specific topics related

t uh uh our episodes we have been having some wonderful feedback and and and people following this program and like Marcia said uh if you have questions if you want to you know specific topics related to The Works of juanity Angeles you can you know ask our ourselves as well we will be glad to accommodate and to bring those topics to you because we are here to learn and like Marcia was saying you know about redeeming ourselves redeeming oneself acknowledging and um and actually go into the action of doing all this is our goal is the goal that Joanna de Angeles brings to us in in all of her works that's right that's right but um if you cure me I'm thinking we could actually reference this topic today with the parable of the Prodigal Son is it okay absolutely it is I think it's absolutely in sync with what we want to be discussing here today yeah and I don't know you uh in the audience you may know this so just forgive me if you do but if you think about Jesus um at the time that he was with us about 2 000 years ago he rarely pointed out your mistake my mistake individual mistakes he knew about the ego and our automatic defense mechanism among them denial which is hahaha more than a river but a bed joke sorry as we can think about josara Jesus was Jesus was such a master Storyteller and he used the mechanism of Parables such as this to provide us all in insights to our own humanity and unfortunately in its itself the sense of a very immature yet nature so his teachings could help us recognize could help us analyze could help us perhaps dive into our existential conflicts so with all the Parables I just think that this one the prodigal son is the very best at least it speaks to my heart and why do I think that I think that because it represents the hmm the synthesis of spiritual growth spiritual Evolution and it helps us reflect what are we doing how are you doing so with that I want to ask you just said can you tell us what the parable is about and maybe what are some key topics that uh

tual Evolution and it helps us reflect what are we doing how are you doing so with that I want to ask you just said can you tell us what the parable is about and maybe what are some key topics that uh you have thought and how does it lead to this discussion at hand okay Mercia um it's important also to mention that this Parable is uh quite profoundly is studying and discuss it in the works of Joanna Diana in one of the works of Joanna D'Angelo which is the the book called in search of the truth and where she in chapter two she starts using this variable first of all to like you said before to to lead us to um analyze that we have the greatest psychotherapists with us there is Jesus and only now we are recognizing the death of his uh messages to the point of correlating them to what we haven't in in psychoanalysis now the Jung's called the Young Concepts all of this so when she proposes this Parable and for those who are not familiar with uh we are going to make a very brief um comment about the parable itself Jesus talks about a man that has two sons and he was very rich man known of he owned a land and other riches and the youngest son comes to him and asks him for his part of the inheritance and this is when Joanna DeAngelis says in this in this moment he's uh very much like I was ourselves when we are thinking about outgrowing our parents and especially when we get into the teenager years where we think we don't need anymore there uh their inputs that they maybe the parents are too old in this particular case he would say I'm not gonna wait here for you to die I want to enjoy life I wanted to you know to exploit life by myself of course always with a name of um pleasing himself more in the sensorial way than in the spiritual way so the father agrees and lets him go gives him his part of the inheritance and he has a an older son that just stays with the father and so the parable goes talking about you know all the experiences that this young man had of course at first

him his part of the inheritance and he has a an older son that just stays with the father and so the parable goes talking about you know all the experiences that this young man had of course at first enjoying life you know the pleasures of life and two of course uh we know what happens right he run out of money uh his situation uh was very very bad to the point of him not even having any more any any food or any place to to to to to be and he started thinking again about everything that he left behind while he was with his family his father and um and now the situation that he found himself and he thought that it was better to you know to return to his father's Halls um not worrying about humiliating himself or not I don't know if she wanted to comment something at this point no I just I just love it the idea of right that going all the way Deep In The Deep recesses of his own Humanity right where I don't know if you if you'd like to mention this but he was you mentioned that he did not have any food right but he actually had to fight with the pigs in the Pigs die to be able to feed himself so I think this is very symbolic to us right but go ahead Jose are you doing an amazing amazing job to return to his home and uh when he was approaching he was seeing already and you know the workers the uh of his father came and told his father that they could see him you know uh coming in drags you know looking uh as we can imagine he would be looking and when he reaches the house of his father uh in a very humble situation and and humbling himself before the father kneeling down uh even kneeling down his father grabs him and Embraces him and uh he is so happy with his return that he asks that um uh what is the I forgot what the animal one of one of the the Sheep the calf that he had would uh would be uh killed to to to you know to to have a party at that that time to celebrate his return uh and um the eldest son was not at home and it's interesting because uh symbolically speaking

ould uh would be uh killed to to to you know to to have a party at that that time to celebrate his return uh and um the eldest son was not at home and it's interesting because uh symbolically speaking um not being at home be means you're not being in harmony with yourself so that was the condition of the Elder son he was not in harmony with himself uh and uh when he returns then when he he sees what is happening he he he was not pleased with uh what his father was doing and even complained to his father saying I've been here by yourself side all the time and um and you never did that for me and then father said well I'm celebrating because this son was that and how he came back to life so there's so much for us to analyze here and to talk about this variable in terms of the like Juana de Angeles mentions in this book um in search of the truth where she explains about the situation of both sons not being in a good condition is not because the other one the others want to stay there with the father that he was a read of selfishness and and personal interest in this case and then and being envious when the the others the other uh the broader returned so he was there but not in peace so there are two ways that one of the Angeles explains to us in this book uh where uh you know the extrovert and the introvert so the youngest son being the extrovert going not fearing the world and and and putting himself out there and of course um because he was looking for good times and uh what what what's the word that I'm looking for he was looking for good times in in things that do not last right Illusions yeah very ephemeral very material expressions of of those experiences right yes and the other one may be being more introvert it stays because um he he has fear he doesn't trust people he feels somehow protected but it doesn't mean that he is in this condition that we want to talk about today the redeeming oneself the the acknowledgment The Awakening and taking action in this direction I'm going to

protected but it doesn't mean that he is in this condition that we want to talk about today the redeeming oneself the the acknowledgment The Awakening and taking action in this direction I'm going to stop now Mercier because I I think you know contributions to give to us as well no this is this is awesome right so um as I said before uh we are the prodigal children right we we leave our father Our God our creator our master and and then we come back and to me what comes to my mind is mostly why does the father allow right why does the father allow his youngest son to go knowing what he knew of the dangers of hurt and and he does that because of love right because he knows that by getting to that uh the depth of Despair as I mentioned that that was the trigger point for him to come back for him to to Really face what he couldn't face because of the Illusions the illusions of a material world delusions of those ephemeral things that are gone once they're they're used so the the sense of a waste which is not a waste if you think about it but I wanted to to ask you here as as we explain the parable uh what are some of the um relevance to this topic that we have here this redeeming of ourselves this Redemption and and in a way this to me this reconciliation because as you already mentioned neither child was okay yet neither child was ready yet like you and like me if you're an introvert if you're an extrovert we all have to face our own quote-unquote demons to be able to to mature and be in harmony with the father right symbolically speaking our creator but what are some of the things that maybe we can talk about or maybe other examples outside of the parable uh just said that we could talk about perhaps in this topic okay one thing that is important to to mention as well Mercia is uh because uh one of them the the youngest one he made physical movement right we went out the other one wouldn't go out but it doesn't mean that he was in harmony like we mentioned before

l Mercia is uh because uh one of them the the youngest one he made physical movement right we went out the other one wouldn't go out but it doesn't mean that he was in harmony like we mentioned before right so in the sense um uh in in mentioning what you you just uh you just comment there we understand that us Immortal Spirits when the at the point of our creation as simple ignorant uh of uh of you know no knowledge of things we we but we have one thing that is given to us so that we can um grow with our own marriage that is the free will so in this case the manifestation of the father accepting you know the Free Will of the sun both of them because one one decided to go the other one decided to stay he could have said you know what I want to do the same thing as my brother is doing so he he also had a choice and and here what's interesting is that the process of growing uh of going into this path of uh uh redential Redemption renewal uh Awakening it's uh it shows clearly that we learn through experiences right we have to experience things we we come we experience life um but then how we are going to experience is up to us what are the choices that we are going to make so it is not overnight in this case is not one two three incarnations that we are going to be ready to choose better but each time we will be choosing better and this process of knowing understanding ourselves uh it can be uh you know painful right it's The Growing Pains of the Spirit uh in this case of this Parable we see uh the symbology of the Sun going through this process of pain of reflection of saying but here I have to dispute food with the pig with the pigs while there in My Father's House the lowest employee would have you know decent food so I'm willing to go there and start from this position so we know we see here that he went through a process that unfortunately it is the he chose the way that most of us choose which is no I I I'm going to Rebel I'm going to do things my way and I know

n so we know we see here that he went through a process that unfortunately it is the he chose the way that most of us choose which is no I I I'm going to Rebel I'm going to do things my way and I know better until we we see that we don't yes there are much better choices that I could have made and and this process although you know being a consequence of our Free Will which is a good thing which gives us the Merit or the Merit of our own choices uh not that we are you know God's puppets it's it's what lead us to this maturity to this encounter with the axis ego itself first of all is the ego like the child like this prodigal son you know I I I I I want to satisfy all my wings I'm saying that it's going to to give me you know there's ephemeral happiness because I want things for now I don't want things in building up and growing and um but then all this process that it leads us to the realization that um once we get there it's not fulfilling us it will naturally lead us to this other path and this is where the topic that we are talking about today it's very important because it's not only about um acknowledging thanks you know in the staff of redemption or redeeming ourselves it's about action what am I going to do after that because many of us and for sure we did that many times we just insist in not seeing a way out not thinking that we are capable of taking a different direction of course we think about this prodigal son I mean he had to go to the lowest point of his life yes right and and it didn't happen overnight it was not overnight that he was in this kind that kind of situation right so he had to go to more you know bad experience until he came to the realization that he he was better off if he returned to his father's house returned to the Eden yes but the thing is um now it comes the hardest part for us all which is get ourselves and saying I need to act on that which was not easy I mean the whole way to return he had a lot of thing a time to think about my father's not going to

e hardest part for us all which is get ourselves and saying I need to act on that which was not easy I mean the whole way to return he had a lot of thing a time to think about my father's not going to receive me uh I want to be there and be the lowest uh you know of the employees uh had to recognize that I was wrong and then you know we we have to fight with our pride absorb things um and he did that and this is how Jesus um is such a figurative way he brings to us you know the whole process of moving from just the ego and and not staying you know in uh in the The Shadow as well thinking about uh not being capable of doing things or letting it uh um overtaking us and and go in the direction of the self of this Awakening and what happened there and we have so many examples um starting with ourselves maybe we are not still uh you know a story of success but uh this is because we don't see exactly what we were before because I'm sure that if we were going to look at us a thousand years ago I would say oh my God how much should they right and it's when we have uh you know uh some of these examples like Paul of Tarsus Mitchell mentioned Saint Augustine Mary of magdala and then Francis of Assisi and uh and that we we can talk about it as well I know many of you will say oh but you were just talking about Saints we are no Saints no we are not but they started like us they they had to go through this process in fact one of the the comments that we we can read about uh you know this the whole uh transition from Soul of Tarsus uh the first persecutor of an and killer of Christians is starting with Stephen um to Paul on the road to Damascus uh we we have a comment from from divado Franco that he says that we find a soul pole the archetype of the hero as conceptualize it in European psychology because he was uh asleep and suddenly he is awakes and and in the same way that we see in the parable of the prodigal son and in the same way he doesn't stop when he has this uh let's say encounter

gy because he was uh asleep and suddenly he is awakes and and in the same way that we see in the parable of the prodigal son and in the same way he doesn't stop when he has this uh let's say encounter right with Jesus he doesn't stop to argue once he acknowledges he just asks what did you do and he goes into this process of collecting himself uh staying three years in the desert right where he he he he can start this journey moving from the eagle to the self and to the right direction but that's up but I'll I'll let you speak a little bit now Marcia and then yes and I think both uh the parable of prodigal son with many of the symbology that we find in it and of course that uh as you said right uh the archetype of the hero and and it's very important for us to even go back to why do we even talk about archetype of the hero and the hero is only heroic when he or she does not know the own its own strength right so for example just for a flight offensive here if I am a uh I don't know super muscular uh boxer and I'm fighting with a three-year-old child I'm not the hero the child is right so it's the the whole notion of David and Goliath the the person who does not know of the strength that he or she carries within and despite this is really important despite of the fear that is embedded in in this person he or she moves on and that's that archetype so when we talk about Paul and Saul Paul and we talk about Mary Magdalene great example or or sing Francis or Saint Augustine all of those the first thing that comes to my mind is that that acknowledgment right they had to acknowledge the the how in their zest for reaching what was the perhaps the Pinnacle in each case the Pinnacle of uh success as defined by their context of the time right they reached that and in doing that they confronted to the error or the notion of oh I was asleep this is this is just an illusion um being the most beautiful and rich woman Mary Magdalene uh is not what I need to be or solutarsus the the

ey confronted to the error or the notion of oh I was asleep this is this is just an illusion um being the most beautiful and rich woman Mary Magdalene uh is not what I need to be or solutarsus the the intelligent the the one that was going to be doing so much for the um the religious organization of the time and in doing that killing others right uh or so and so forth those illusions of success uh fed their egos the structure of their egos and by breaking down by Falling Down by uh being awakened with whatever the triggers are and I say this just out of because we may be going through the same thing ourselves what is our trigger I ask you I ask myself what is it that's going to wake me up to really see how I was a prisoner if you will of Illusion I was really unaware immature and now that I've been awakened for whatever triggered me to wake me up I will take action and move toward my authentic self and that journey is really the Hero Journey is going to meet your think authentic self and by doing so you're going to destroy to break away those Illusions by by finding yourself right self with a a uh uh uh big uh s instead of a small one but to me those are the things that's so important and if we go back to perhaps to Paul and I'd love to hear you just uh we can talk a little bit about you said the three years in the desert right and and as he's doing that as equipped as probably one of the most intelligent eloquent people out there at the time what does he do he's pushed out right and you see Marsha I was thinking that there is one thing that we have to to put it very clear here like I said you know when we mentioned those names you know this this people um Mary of magdala Paul and Saint Augustine's and Francis like I said it seems that it's Out Of Reach to us right because now we know their stories after they take this step to you know to let the self reveal to you know they they they had this click like you said but before they would exactly like us so this is what is uh is missing in us

tories after they take this step to you know to let the self reveal to you know they they they had this click like you said but before they would exactly like us so this is what is uh is missing in us uh and the determination of course the the to stay and on track because if we start thinking about so all of those okay the four of them sure they all went to deep suffering before uh their Awakening Okay so Soul was killing people that knowledge he had a a brilliant future and and as a Pharisee and but he was getting into this conflict he was going through losses the laws of his love and one Abigail that that died and and when she she told him that she was a follower of Christ and um he felt robbed uh by Christ of his love so he went to deep suffering uh to you know to the point when uh upon you know killing uh stoning you know sending to Stone uh to stoning it as stiffen and he goes to stiffen and he he says and looks to Abigail his uh uh you know the love of his life a Soul's love of his life and and says um he's a good man and and forgive him and he will find himself a enemy all of that made citical Motion in him I mean he cannot come out Superior under the circumstances I'm the superior one because I I'm I'm reading the world of those uh heretic people that was the thought of so at this point so it was his mission right there was his mission yeah he was into this uh props he went into this process of suffering and even when he meets Jesus and he stays blind for for a few days and had to be healed by the very man he was going to persecute and then he saw himself alone in the world because now I don't have my old world and I'm not in the new as well I I don't trust myself or people will not trust me when I think about Mary of magdala is the same thing he went and sent Augustine the same they both went to moral Decay and both had you know leave it a very hedonistic life seeking sexual exploits trying to um you know to numb themselves as well and Saint Augustine in this case very

same they both went to moral Decay and both had you know leave it a very hedonistic life seeking sexual exploits trying to um you know to numb themselves as well and Saint Augustine in this case very very uh intellectual mind as well with philosopher that would be you know bringing the philosophical theories here and there and his mother was a very devout Christian and she would pray daily for him for him to go into the ways of Christ and he didn't want to know anything about it until he read something and um an account of the life of Saint Anthony of the desert and he started going to this personal crisis but he had to go to all this moral Decay and this personal crisis and Mary magdala the same and even Saint Francis because was living a very idle life he had a rich father he had no worries in life he was so beloved by his mother as well and by his friends and Companions and then he decided to go and defend uh Assisi against the the war in Perugia and then he is um capture and stay there for a year as a prisoner that you know uh was something that was also helping beating up building up his character this in terms of the Suffering The everything that he had to you know he experienced during this year uh returning with his health compromise it and then trying to go again a few years after to again to fight for for his uh his region there but he he started becoming ill and and something else was calling him uh and and so we see that before the sun rises too dark yes yes and and I think that if we could perhaps make an image of this access uh Eagle in in self is you know the dark and the light and uh but one thing that we're finding in common with all of them once they had a Richard this point that doesn't need to go I mean we don't need to go that deep we can learn through the opportunities we have through love but we choose the more difficult way but once they they did that they had this click like you said yeah they immediately took action they uh acknowledged what what was

portunities we have through love but we choose the more difficult way but once they they did that they had this click like you said yeah they immediately took action they uh acknowledged what what was happening they they awake and they took action and marching in the right direction but they had to build from there it was not that it was giving to them you know we know everything Francis suffered and San Agustin as well I mean he he left everything behind and Mary of magdala leaving a very you know uh Carefree life and then going to stay with the lepers and taking care of them so yeah um so just for us to think that it doesn't need to take many incarnations for us to to see this movement from us we can do this movement now and then it's a journey of you know just growing and building up from there so let's wrap it up right so we talked about uh if we if we put it all together uh if I may so we talked today about the this Road to Redemption right this reconciling with oneself and I think this is really important because no matter who we're talking about a fictional character and we're talking about the prodigal son or real life Paul Mary uh Augustine so on and so forth those were real individuals that from different standpoints they were uh being brought up they're raised to reach a a sense of and I I even dare to say like The Prodigal Son a a a choice of life that would lead to a modicum of success unfortunately that sense of achievement was all all of them are examples of achieving success either by intelligence by Power by Beauty by wealth right all of them come there with the notion that the the sense of happiness and success are really built on external uh material characteristics or attributes so by confronting the one thing that all of them were experiencing and I think this is where we we can come here we we do too which is the trigger point is the recognition when we meet with ourselves when we are truthful to ourselves that we don't leave we don't live in peace that we're

where we we can come here we we do too which is the trigger point is the recognition when we meet with ourselves when we are truthful to ourselves that we don't leave we don't live in peace that we're lacking and and when I say lacking this is just this hole in our hearts because all we do is to nourish in in in Union psychology terminology our ego that structure that meets the demands of the external Material World instead of the self which is the structure of your spiritual and true true self right your authentic self so from that perspective josada uh the recognition that there is something missing despite the beautiful clothes and I'm thinking about Saint Francis right or the beauty Mary Magdalene or did of Paul in in Augustine in in the case of Paul his power all of those things were not enough and I think this is the main questions that were here is uh perhaps the so-called falling angels and By Angels the I talk about the potentiality of the angelative that we all bring with us in our Journeys plural life after life right we we have this but we we are driving toward the illusion of life on Earth which is that life that is built on ephemeral expressions of material life without peace and that's the Clincher here without peace we will never get there and to achieve peace we it requires us to confront ourselves to be able to then start the journey to Redemption which is really to redeem what we're here to do in the beginning and I think this is beautiful um just I would love to hear from you a wrap up of this discussion but I think this is really important because I can talk about love I can talk about peace I can talk about Harmony but those examples really tell us without peace in inner peace nothing works and I'll be walking with this vacuum that I will need to fulfill no matter what in the no matter what are exemplified by those existential conflicts that we talked earlier today what are your thoughts can you wrap it up so when we finish this is a beautiful discussion by the way yeah I

no matter what are exemplified by those existential conflicts that we talked earlier today what are your thoughts can you wrap it up so when we finish this is a beautiful discussion by the way yeah I wanted to to say something to everyone that is hearing us that are following us now and uh which is Maybe we all are now or many of us are now in this uh part of our lives that we are in the desert you know the the three years of the desert uh of Paul and all the you know the others that we we don't have uh uh not necessarily like like we have this information from Paul but of course they all went to this process where we were saying before I'm I'm I realized that I I my my old ways are no longer working in my my best interest which is the inter the interest of you know what an immortal being should be looking for but I'm not there yet so do not feel discouraged uh because uh if we are in this in this phase now there is no no time or for us to to go back we have to move forward so maybe we are having uh challenges now we are um um making this effort to continue to act uh in righteousness but this is what we have to do so see yourself as being through this journey because we are we are going through this journey and of course if you are listening to us you're already interested in learning more about our potentiality and about uh where we should be going now so this is the message that I would like to live uh all with and um we are together in this journey absolutely thank you that's a great closing for everyone out there thank you for being with us we really appreciate you we appreciate your comments your feedback and uh we'll see you next week bye foreign