Ep 118 - The Lost & Found: Exploring Mercy, Compassion, Self-Discovery

Hello everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore this intersection of spirituality and psychology and we get as a result some timeless wisdom that u are contained in both fields. So, I'm so happy to be here and so happy to be with Dr. Naifona. How you doing? Doing great, thank you. And I'm very happy to be here with you, Marca, and everybody else again. Awesome. Thank you. Um Ana my question to all of us is one regarding the topic of discussion today but um the question rhetorical as it may be but are we ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery of healing of reflection and uh I asked that because I would like to to shed light into some really amazing, profoundly amazing teachings from the Gospel of Luke and uh with that potentially explore the timeless content of the parables of the lost as they as we call them. Right? So those three parables are stories that speak to the wounded child within all of us and bring to us the concept the content and the power of mercy as well as the joy of rediscovering what we thought was lost. So, and I I propose explore how the stories hold the keys to unlocking some emotional and spiritual needed healing, right? And whether I don't know, maybe we're seeking peace, we're seeking healing or s simply um seeking for deep understanding of our inner world. Um, the Gospel of Luke, specifically chapter 15, holds one, three, I guess, three of the most powerful parables of of the lost, right? So, they're considered the lost sheep, the lost coin, and the lost son. We've talked about the lost son for a while now. Uh but anyways, those parables offer to me not just a spiritual lesson but actually a deep psychological study of human behavior because it explores our emotions, the internal battles we all face and uh together I propose that we can perhaps reflect on the ideas of mercy, compassion, the healing journey of rediscovering what has been lost within us. So let's go ahead and get

attles we all face and uh together I propose that we can perhaps reflect on the ideas of mercy, compassion, the healing journey of rediscovering what has been lost within us. So let's go ahead and get started. I wanted to to give a little bit a twominut uh uh re refresher on those parables. So the first one of course is that we must know that uh the gospel of Luke there's such beauty ani and it's really undeniable um that it is considered one of the most beautiful books ever written and Luke captures somehow the essence of Jesus mission and he does that with grace with perhaps tenderness with compassion. And uh if you think about it, Jesus journeys toward Jerusalem right there, he shared um and we find that in some of the writings by Jonah the Angels, by the way. But uh Jesus shared 19 parables and each one of those taught us some nuggets of uh about the human nature, about spiritual growth and even how this idea of how we relate with one another. And so because of it, the Gospel of Luke is often called the Gospel of Mercy and compassion. I love it. And it's it's really for good reason that it's known as that. So it's in this gospel na and everyone here that we encounter one of the most essential aspects of the human experience. The idea behind the acts of mercy, right? If we think about it, mercy and compassion are actually not just concepts. They are the foundation of what it means to be feel human. Don't you think mercy is not just about uh oh I'm feeling pity for you that is so hurt and poor and in need. No, it's it's it's really about uh perhaps sharing in the emotional toil or even the joy in another's happiness. Um how we can embrace their victories and really act with passion and most importantly with tenderness with each other's struggles. So, if we go back to chapter 15 of Luke, um there are those three unforgettable parables, by the way, and they're very I'm going to say perhaps very shortly on those. And those considered the parables of the lost. The first one, number one,

um there are those three unforgettable parables, by the way, and they're very I'm going to say perhaps very shortly on those. And those considered the parables of the lost. The first one, number one, is a parable of a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. He loses one and he leaves the 99 behind and searches tirelessly for that lost sheep. When he finds it, he rejoices with his friends and neighbors and he says, "Rejoice with me. I found my lost sheep." So in the same way Jesus teaches that there is more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous people who don't need to repent. So second parable a woman who has 10 coins 10 silver coins and loses one and she searches her entire home. She lights the lamp. She sweeps every corner. She works tirelessly until she finds it. Once she finds it, she calls all her friends and neighbors to rejoice with her, saying, "Rejoice with me. I found my lost coin." Just like the first parable, there's joy over one sin sinner. Right? That's the story, the reference who repents. And finally, we come to the story of the prodigal son. An old one for this podcast. We we talked about it for several episodes. Such a beauty. But for those who have not uh heard it, it's a narrative that speaks deeply more than the others about that wounded child within us. And uh the parable of the prodigal son reveals that unconditional love and mercy of a father who embraces and welcomes back his lost son with open arms. So Ana, what can we learn from these parables? What are your thoughts? Well, great parables. Just a reminder to everyone. I think we had have previously talked about that why Jesus used parables. uh why did he use them and not you know talk straightforward to people you are doing this um you know and you should be doing this and that and I think it's very important for us to remind to remember that parables that come from it's a Greek word right that it's a from two small words par that it means beside hide and bowl that means to throw. So he

it's very important for us to remind to remember that parables that come from it's a Greek word right that it's a from two small words par that it means beside hide and bowl that means to throw. So he was it it's a a parable is an analogy right? He was using analogies uh illustrations, images and small stories to illustrate something that is timeless. Marcia and everyone because um he was using archetypal stories and emotions and situations right and I think it's so important that we are talking about this in this in this days that we are living in because aren't we as humanity kind of lost in our days everybody you know in different parts of the world uh suffering this and that with a lot of crisis going around. So that that's timeless. Uh the sense of being lost or of losing ourselves and it what is implicit in that is that um in at some point we're going to find ourselves. So it's kind of the archetype of death and rebirth. We could also make this a knowledge. Something inside of us is is dead to our consciousness, right? Because if it's not in here, our psych, if it's not in our consciousness, uh then we could say that it's dead for consciousness. It it's in the unconscious, right? So it's lost for consciousness for our ego let's say for our consciousness here in this world. So this can happen and happens with all of us. we can think we are talking about the teachings of Jonah Dangelis and uh spiritist knowledge right so we know that when we get we when we kind of fall in this world material world where um we are going to have our spirit the knowledge of our spirit in the depths of our unconscious as Joanna says then we already know That sorry people that for uh for Joanna what Jung called the self capital S is the spirit how it is here in our psych with us but in the depths of our unconscious. Okay. So the self sorry the ego has um more relation to the personal unconscious and you you talked about the inner you know the the child the hurt child the inner child.

he depths of our unconscious. Okay. So the self sorry the ego has um more relation to the personal unconscious and you you talked about the inner you know the the child the hurt child the inner child. So it's one of our complexes that are here in this life because of course our father and mother our parents were not perfect. We are not perfect. So of course we are going to kind of hurt each other. We are going to have traumatic uh memories from our childhood. Of course hopefully uh good memories also together with loving memories. But in mo at some point we're going to have memories of hurt of uh being lost of not being understood by our father or mother right for the adults that are taking care of us when when we are children. So this would be traumatic experiences that stay with us our whole life right and we kind of lose something uh when we are in contact with these experiences. So we can lose the joy, we can uh lose the sense of security, right? So this is very personal. This is kind of made very uh up to date in when we come to this life. But let's not forget that in the core of all our complexes, our crisis, our neurotic patterns, there are the archetypes. they are in the core of them, right? Because we have experienced in many many lives similar situations and while we we haven't as spirits evol evolving as our self our spirit is evolving. So while we don't integrate the situ uh the you know the the issue uh it's not part of us it's not solved yet it's not integrated it casts shadows and the shadows will come with us be our resentments our hurts our not understanding and not forgiving you you've talked about mercy mercy and compassion as in the gospel of uh Luke. So beautiful. It's like a a psychotherapy, you know, spiritual psychotherapy as you want to say, his parables. They're wonderful because we kind of always are getting lost or losing something that is very precious to us. And it's great that you made a summary of the parable so that we can all um try to connect with these

derful because we kind of always are getting lost or losing something that is very precious to us. And it's great that you made a summary of the parable so that we can all um try to connect with these beautiful images and small stories that Jesus um um actually he taught us but to ourselves our spirits because at that point of course a lot of people couldn't understand even the stories couldn't reflect upon them and you see in I remember that Joanna talked about I gave some examples like Peter for for instance when he denies Jesus he denied Jesus three times right and he was his friend he was you know he would call Jesus m master and he was he had a lot of faith of course because he was uh learning with Jesus he recognized Jesus as the master as you know uh the Messiah, right? But how come then in that mo in those moments and Jesus told him he would deny him? How come he would lose it? It it would seems to us that he would um he had lost his faith his faith right in Jesus. But we know that that that was the ego. That was his fear of the pain that he would have to suffer if he didn't deny Jesus for instance. And then everything that he would have to go through. Let's not cast the first stone, right? Because being impaled in a crust or this and that, that was horrible. And it you would have to be really um spiritually evolved and with the capacity of being this life with all the spiritual wisdom. Wow. That was too much for for the apostles, right? Yeah. So just think about Peter. That's one of the examples that Joanna brings to us. temporarily we could say he lost not that he lost his faith but he lost his courage and let's remember that core is in Latin is heart right and a is like act so courage is to act with uh the heart with the loving energy of the heart so at that in in that moment like Peter lost this capacity tempor temporarily of acting with the courage of his heart because in his heart he knew that Jesus was the Messiah, that Jesus was the master who was bringing the real

nt like Peter lost this capacity tempor temporarily of acting with the courage of his heart because in his heart he knew that Jesus was the Messiah, that Jesus was the master who was bringing the real kingdom, the path to the real kingdom of uh the God of God so that we could finally live, you know, through this path, finally reach this kingdom and that it was an inner kingdom actually because uh it was developing everything that you said um that you refer to uh the gospel of Luke of mercy, compassion and love um towards each other. So and forgiveness all of that. So we could say that Peter lost temporarily uh you know this courage but it was in his spirit. It was in the self because in the self he knew that um that Jesus was the master and that uh he had all this connection. So we could think uh in psychological terms that um he lost temporarily the connection between the ego his ego consciousness that was a small he's a small personality and his bigger personality his self his higher self right he lost temporarily this connection so I think that it's a wonderful I remember that Joanna talks a lot about this and she and She uh really uses the expression at some point coming to our senses, you know, coming to ourselves that um really finding this connection with the wisdom that we have within ourselves. So when she I was thinking Marca Andrew remembering what I've read in Joanna's teachings that for instance the ship when I and I have I don't know if you guys have um seen and it I think it's all around maybe in the YouTube it's um actually um a small movie that it's a kind of cartoon but it's u um like I think it's Jesus is okay. But it's in the backside and there are this ship that it's gets lost. Mhm. And um and then the uh he goes towards the ship and he leaves the other but they are well tended. They are not alone. And Jesus didn't didn't want us to think oh you have to leave the the 99 without any care. No. um they are taken care of but um he went to find this one and it was

are well tended. They are not alone. And Jesus didn't didn't want us to think oh you have to leave the the 99 without any care. No. um they are taken care of but um he went to find this one and it was very precious because it uh and uh actually looking at that that cartoon uh I thought wow I'm I felt like the ship you know uh because it was very distracted and looking this way and that way and suddenly I don't know if you guys have seen this but suddenly it just came to my mind now. Uh it kind of fell in a kind of abysm or a hole or something. And then uh Jesus go there and uh because it was very the ship is very weak and cannot even you know uh call but uh he finds it and he grabs the ship and brings it and I found wow that's me. I I I am with him again, you know. And don't we all want to have this tenderness, this loving energy feeling all around of us, you know, and saying whatever you do uh and if you get lost, I will always be with you until the end of times. And I think that uh when he said he tells Peter that he's going to deny him three times and Peter doesn't believe him. No, I'm not because I have such faith on you. I have such love for you, master. But he does. And I understand that um Jesus was not blaming him that he was going to deny me was no accusation, right? He just matter of fact you will deny me three times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think he was saying like you know don't find your way back because I know you will and I forgive you in advance because I love you and I will always be with you. So I was thinking why couldn't you know Jesus uh Peter uh why didn't you know he went in such a crisis that he would oh I don't deserve to you know to be a fisher of men as his Jesus told him and I don't deserve to follow if he had falling into guilt and inflicting pain in himself and saying oh I'm so bad um because you want to tells us pay attention. If you think you are a victim of you know even of your ignorance you cannot forgive yourself and you fall in this trap of

imself and saying oh I'm so bad um because you want to tells us pay attention. If you think you are a victim of you know even of your ignorance you cannot forgive yourself and you fall in this trap of the inner child because we are all spiritual children right we don't have yet a very if compared to archangels or whatever the higher uh beings that uh you know of course we are struggling willing to evolve and we have our own light but it's still like you know like spiritual children let's say and of course we're going to make mistakes what is a sinner is something is someone that that is lost and that was mistaken in the in his world view or in his view of the situation he he or she's going through. So I think it's very important not uh to feel so guilty as uh don't understanding that we have to have compassion and mercy for ourselves in the first place. I'm sorry. Have I answered? Yes, of course. I love I love how how deep and broad you went through. Just to to restate, right? Um beyond the spiritual teachings, I believe that the stories, those three stories, right, offer us this um psychological insights that you alluded to. And it's it's interesting if we think about it. Um in these parables we do see the collective unconscious at work, right? They do reveal those deep archetypes that all of us 2,000 years ago today and 2,000 years from now, we all share those archetypes. And I I'm wondering here, you know, whether it's the man searching for his lost sheep or and I can't wait to see the car the the the the cartoonish little um uh film that you you mentioned, right? But uh regardless if the lost sheep or the woman search for the coin, they all just really tell us that we're all facing some internal struggle. That's life. And uh and I at the core of the parables um there's also this idea that uh not only facing struggles we are all experiencing loss and and loss to me if I were to to do a an analogy right the loss is not the coin of the sheep but it's really the loss of inner peace the

hat uh not only facing struggles we are all experiencing loss and and loss to me if I were to to do a an analogy right the loss is not the coin of the sheep but it's really the loss of inner peace the loss sometimes of our health, our emotion ability, our sense of purpose. Those are all different but equally important types of loss that will destabilize us, right? And and I believe life can sometimes cause us to lose these valuable treasures, right? And the key here, like the parable tells us, let's not give up, right? The lesson is to never stop searching for perhaps that sense of peace that now is lost or or health or or peace of mind that was I had it but is now lost. Uh joy, peace, self-worth. And and uh I I really like the idea that the search for whatever was lost is what brings us fulfillment, right? the the the sense of accountability in responsibility. I lost. So I will un you know relentlessly I will find it back. And when we get back all of those parables they're like they're talking about rejoice, right? Rejoice with me. It was lost and now it's found. So it's important for us to be able to look inside of us to to identify the the that we are suffering suffering through loss of something but it's up to us to look and recover that but I wanted to pivot a little bit because you did mention the wounded child a couple of times na and I wanted to know if we can maybe talk a little bit about it because as you mentioned we all carry this wounded child within us. And the wounded child, we're just refer referencing those parts of ourselves that uh uh have been hurt by life, by challenge, by neglect, by anything, right? So um even I would say even um have been hurt by our own negative voices that we have internalized from others about ourselves. So and I those uh this is my understanding of the the the problem here is that this wounded child that uh it is a reflection of our own pain and suffering. They the child often can hinder us from moving forward. Right? You even mentioned that you can

the the problem here is that this wounded child that uh it is a reflection of our own pain and suffering. They the child often can hinder us from moving forward. Right? You even mentioned that you can get stuck feeling guilty like Peter, but he didn't, right? He never did it once he found himself doing exactly what was predicted by Jesus. So um we we should understand and and learn perhaps or being inspired to keep moving forward to keep looking to keep uh on until we find peace and healing. Um just like the lost sheep or the lost coin, we need to to to to search for that part of ourselves that has been lost or has been buried or uh it is surrounded by resentment, guilt, fear and uh the the you know finding that part would be um getting to a point where we are uh now facing healing and even reintegration. Let's talk a little bit about this journey of healing uh of reconnecting to our true selves. Can you do that a little bit? And and I know you mentioned uh about it, but I'd love to hear some more if you don't mind. Yes. Yes. I think it's very important because I was listening to you Marcia and um it came to my mind what Joanna says about coming to our senses as a first step. She says actually it must be the first step to all that are sick of the soul to come to our the coming to our senses. You know realizing and as you said um that any suffering that uh we are going through should be conscious in a sense that should lead us to selfawareness to look inside of us and and not outside of us. And um but she there is a trap here. There's a trick uh problem here that we should pay attention. Joanna says that um we have to pay attention when we feel like the light in conflict because I can tell you as a psychotherapist and you an analyst there are a lot of people that kind of as says w in suffering you know um and that they choose pity her words choosing pity and compassion. But compassion in a sense like feeling, oh, I'm the victim. Yeah. Not in a good sense. In a sense that, oh, I I

suffering you know um and that they choose pity her words choosing pity and compassion. But compassion in a sense like feeling, oh, I'm the victim. Yeah. Not in a good sense. In a sense that, oh, I I everybody has to feel sorry for me because I am, you know, the victim instead of the support of love and brotherhood. That's Joanna's words. So the the the the trap here is that if you uh there are a lot of people and this is a very neurotic behavior. I can tell you a um a clinical example. I was thinking of a um middle-aged uh woman lady many years ago that she had been uh actually only if you really understand uh the reincarnation uh and this proposal that Joanna is bringing uh to join all the spiritist knowledge with the psychology the depth psychology that we you know going deep understanding that we have a e we have an ego with its complex but we have a higher self we have this other let's say consciousness that uh has the knowledge that we bring with us to this experience here because if we don't have this understand even some clinical examples don't make any some this my colleagues would be you know naive because many don't unfortunately are not open to um spiritist knowledge but we are getting there we are getting there with a lot of research and things like that and uh kind of I still don't accept the reincarnation cycles that we and of course the impact that this has in the our understanding of the psych right but what I think it's very important I was remembering because this um middle-aged uh woman Mhm. couldn't uh she used to all of the excuses that she made was because of the wounded child. Okay. Interesting. It was because and she had undergone Freud and psychoanalysis and therapy. And of course it's all about the wounded child. But there's no way out in a sense because you you have only to accept that you have suffered this and that and that your ego has developed some defenses and try to understand your defenses. It's okay because we have to do that but not

because you you have only to accept that you have suffered this and that and that your ego has developed some defenses and try to understand your defenses. It's okay because we have to do that but not get stuck in that. And one problem is that some people get stuck in that because they don't have the understanding as Jung brings to us that is very complimentary I think to Freud and psych and I am one one of the few people that I think that we should put as Joanna teaches actually in my field as a psychiatrist also that we have to learn from all these uh these colleagues all these you know this um this intellectuals and that came before us to understand to open the way that we understand to broaden to open the way that we understand the site. And one of the things Marsha and everybody is that um this lady was stuck in the wooden child and everything uh and uh you could see that behind her words was like kind of a pleasure to uh she was stuck in the the way to look at herself as a victim of a bad childhood of parents that couldn't understand her that even if he they actually she could understand they never abused her in any way but she has this fantasy of they were she had been abused because they couldn't understand her. So um everything and she she this view of herself was taken in her adult life with her. So of course as Joanna say she projected onto everybody else husband and children that uh she was always the victim and as Jung says um whatever doesn't come to your consciousness get stuck in unconscious will be your destiny. It's other words that he used but it's the the same you know that's the meaning of what he's saying. If you don't integrate the shadow, if for instance um all the resentment and all the you know the lack of understanding uh and of course and one of the things this lady um of course if she was the victim and she understood um like her situation as uh what was lost in her relationship to her parents, right? Uh and could never be regained the love of the the the the

dy um of course if she was the victim and she understood um like her situation as uh what was lost in her relationship to her parents, right? Uh and could never be regained the love of the the the the loving parents that she wanted to have had in the ch in her childhood. So she herself couldn't be a loving mother. Absolutely. just thought she was. But of course, all the shadow, the resentment uh uh was projected onto the her own children that of course could never understand her and um were bad to her in a sense that wouldn't do you know take care of her when she was getting old and all this stuff. So as Joanna says then you if you don't work with your shadow and if you don't find a way uh to help the light of the self illuminate you know the shadow and the wisdom that you have as Peter did as right he said okay I have to understand that uh temporarily I lost the connection the loving energy that connects U connects me with my master with Jesus uh and the trust in the his words because he said he was going to deny right so what I understood from this lady I'm just giving an example is that she refused to understand that her parents were not as bad as she was uh saying they had been to her and that she brought from from some other experience. I was not even talking about reincarnation because this was a very materialistic lady. But you can say just look at um and Joanna asks us to do the same thing. Yeah. As therapists of ourselves, look, try to put your emotions by by your side and the wounded child for a moment and look as in a super opera, let's say. Yeah. Look as in a movie. you there with your parents and the way your memories, the way that they treated you, but the parents as characters of this movie, let's say, of this super opera, what do you see with your adult, you know, u um experience of your whole life? What do you see now? You are a mother or a father or you have some kind of experience. And if you are really truthful to yourself to what you are looking you're going to see that they

your whole life? What do you see now? You are a mother or a father or you have some kind of experience. And if you are really truthful to yourself to what you are looking you're going to see that they have not been so bad that everybody has some bad moments that of course maybe you felt wounded but uh many times was not on purpose. They were just repeating what the grandfather grandmother your grandfather and mother uh have what they have experienced as children. So it's very liberating Marsha you know it's kind of opened we are we can choose if we want to have mercy and compassion not only to others including father and mother and grandfathers and grandmothers grandparents and uh really trust in this love that we uh know we have deep inside in our higher self and understand and have compassion and mercy. Yeah. Uh uh to all including ourselves. Uh or if we want to get stuck in this trap of feeling forever victims, you know, absolutely. Yeah. What comes to my mind here is the work for example of family constellation, right? Um and and we could uh bring some of the the the movies. They're plentiful because it's something that is is uh everywhere. The idea that we in this case, right, we are in the midst of this complex uh dynamic uh relationship that uh can can lead to a lot of hurt. But uh the the the idea here with family constellation is from a therapeutical approach uh address those family dynamics to to explore to review all those unconscious patterns and how they impact each other. Right? So just real quickly the the some of the movies that came to my mind uh and you may laugh about it but the royal tennibombs right or or even the Godfather which is all the the multigeneration um power struggles or um the I think one that was deeply deeply touched me was the the pursuit of happiness right about the struggling father who is trying to protect his his son and it's just it's very very difficult but one of two to to to things that I wanted to to say here about uh beyond family constellation

about the struggling father who is trying to protect his his son and it's just it's very very difficult but one of two to to to things that I wanted to to say here about uh beyond family constellation right is that uh when we when we start to think about it an um for any of us any of us whenever we decide to embark on a journey of healing. We start right off the bat to to reconnect with our true selves and as such the child no I'm sorry the adult and I was thinking this patient that you referenced right so that patient uh a middle-aged woman could if embarking on true journey of healing she could have risen above her old wounds and start to integrate the shadow with the light as you mentioned. So I I just have to say this process is not easy. It's really not at all but it's so worth it. And uh this is maybe an invitation for me if I may that we we we do embark in a journey of reflection of therapy or or even just simply taking time for introspection. And when we do that, we can begin to heal, right? to back to the parables to start to find what has been lost and to perhaps experience the joy of integrating and becoming whole again. Yes, I think it's very important much because um if we don't I know that it's very difficult you know because to realize that you are being um as aggressive let's say towards your own children as you say that you have suffered can you imagine that because if I of course you are not a victim in this point anymore because then you are the aggressor let's say you are um repeating the patterns right yeah the patterns yes but is a a vicious circle and we have to have this courage you know that Peter had that Paul of Tarsus had so many of these wonderful souls that had this courage to say well I was mistaken I understand that I felt wounded But maybe maybe um as I would love I would like when I am in contact with myself with my shadow I would like uh that my children can forgive me because of some of my my own mistakes. Uh I can forgive my parents

maybe um as I would love I would like when I am in contact with myself with my shadow I would like uh that my children can forgive me because of some of my my own mistakes. Uh I can forgive my parents for instance. I can stop being resentful. I can, you know, stop being because it kind of gives some people some pleasure as I told you because then I'm and Joanna tells us about that because then I'm it's like the ego feels less guilty because the guilt is not on on me it's in on the others and I think Marca it's very important we started talking about how we are lost in our times how this is so up to date feel people all around the world are feeling kind of lost. Why is still all this conflict going on? But if we understand as as that as a collective uh we kind of repeat um can be repeating as a collective uh what in this individual as I told you this middle-aged woman was doing to her own children then we would stop uh you know accepting some um some sick souls let's say that are in power because if we get in this vibrational other vibrational energy you know um this other vibrational field because it's always vibration that we are talking on the bottom when we talk about the self as says is our spirit so uh it vibrates and it can vibrates high vibrations love mercy and compassion as you are low vibrations, hatred, resent, fear, low vibrations. And if we kind of feel comfortable with our wounded child explaining everything that we do in our lives um because of our wounded child. So, uh I'm doing I'm not doing anything I'm projecting onto others. Of course they are doing to me uh my husband, my parents, my children, my friends, they are um doesn't matter when I feel um sad when I feel when I feel that I lost something precious and then it's not it's never my fault because I'm I have been wounded in the past. Yeah, it's everybody else's fault. So what I keep doing not only I keep I keep this vicious circle within as you actually it's very good that we talked about family constellation because it's going

t. Yeah, it's everybody else's fault. So what I keep doing not only I keep I keep this vicious circle within as you actually it's very good that we talked about family constellation because it's going to constellate this archetype in my family and we are going to pass on to the other generations and the next and the next and the next and the next. Yes, epigenetics is all about that. But we are al also going to repeat in the collective because you are also talked about collective unconscious. So we will accept others who repeat with us our wounds you know inflicting us our wounds prejudice crazy stuff uh lack of liberties and things like that. Oh, but that's going is happening and I don't have anything to do with that. The world has gone crazy and no, we do have in a sense that we are part of this collective. So if we heal ourselves, Joanna talks about the conquest of selfawareness. Absolutely. And not being afraid of our shadows and connecting, vibrating, and changing our behaviors. She she asks us to uh have conscious suffering because we are all going to suffer at some point. We are go going to lose something but as you said so beautifully don't that don't get stuck in that. Uh we we bring to consciousness we don't fear ourselves. We pay attention to our hurts, what's hurting inside of us and we deal with our shadows, our low vibrations. Wow. Then each one of us is like a light that starts shining brighter and we are not going to connect to this suffering that it's outside of us. And we actually is going we are going to change all this suffering because then we simply are not going to connect. The world hasn't gone crazy. It's just that a lot of people are lost on their own shadow feeling like I I prefer to excuse myself that I'm forever the wounded child within me and the others are guilty than doing the job of selfawareness. So let's pay attention to our Yes. I I love I love that. So just to to summarize because we had such good so many great nuggets of knowledge

the others are guilty than doing the job of selfawareness. So let's pay attention to our Yes. I I love I love that. So just to to summarize because we had such good so many great nuggets of knowledge today. But today we reflect upon the parables, right? And as we think about it before uh we we say goodbye, we we should be asking ourselves what have we lost in our lives, right? What are our treasures? What are the things or the emotions or the values within that we're still searching and we cannot find? And I'd say be it peace of mind, be your health, your emotional balance, or simply, and I think this is the big one, simply the courage to face the challenges of life. Remember everyone that it's always worth the search. And when we find it, let's rejoice, right? Let's really enjoy the moment that comes from the recovery or from the healing or from the rediscovery that uh happens when we do that. But I want to say thank you. Thank you for joining us today. I hope these reflections on mercy, compassion, and the journey of self-discovery will inspire you to keep searching for the lost treasures within your own heart. And for those of you who tuned in for the first time, please note that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus. And we hope that you're able to perhaps take a moment and expand your own concepts of spirituality and psychology. I want to thank you naive for being here with me and also our sponsors manuinho, the United States Spiritist Federation, the international spiritist council and Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the medical spiritist association. We'll be back next week. So stay tuned and so long everyone. Byebye. Hello everyone. Welcome to the psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore this intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result, we capture timeless wisdom containing both se both fields. I'm your host, Marcia Trojano. And joining me today is someone that I

plore this intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result, we capture timeless wisdom containing both se both fields. I'm your host, Marcia Trojano. And joining me today is someone that I consider a very special guest. Someone who has dedicated much of his work to understanding, exploring, and discussing this intersection of spiritual wisdom and human growth. Please welcome Yuri Castro. Yuri, how you doing? I'm very good. Hello to everyone who's listening or watching us. It's always an honor to be here. Oh, wonderful. Well, Yuri, today I'm proposing we have this conversation that I hope to be enlightening to all of us, including myself. Right. Let's um dive into some of the teachings by Joanna D'Angelus because I would like to to discuss this idea of an evolutionary journey of the self, right? How do we get to this? How do we understand even the path and how this path can lead us to a true sense of inner transformation and uh I would like Yodi um to to welcome right as I said before and I know that everyone here with me today are eager to also um hear from you and receive some nuggets of enlightenment. Uh as we explore this deep insights that Joanna the Angels has offered us on the topic of the journey of the self. Yuri in her teachings Joanna the Angels speaks of this existence this I I I I touch myself in my shoulder every time I think about this body right this um corporeal earthly existence. And uh while we are in in a in a time where everybody and I hear that from many different uh platforms and or channels many people called we live only once right uh make sure that you enjoy life and there's always this uh touch points that tells us in the wide widstream general um uh areas of input of our lives that life is brief we right physical life is brief. I agree but that we in this the brevity of life corporeal life that we have to go with a gusto and really enjoy every aspect of sensorial physical tangible experience for it to to have some meaning. But

agree but that we in this the brevity of life corporeal life that we have to go with a gusto and really enjoy every aspect of sensorial physical tangible experience for it to to have some meaning. But Joanna D'Angelus, she speaks of this existence from a different point that I would like for us to talk. She speaks about this valuable learning experience. Right? So we're here to learn and she she says that the learning experience points to the idea of the self, right? in as a the higher essence of herself taps into the collective unconscious. So from that perspective we can think that a journey to the self right is a journey that it will be fraught will be filled with oh moments of joys and triumphs as well as oh the moments where we try we fail we get hurt right but in this ups and downs if you will we are ultimately leading ourselves into the goal of integrating our ego, the unconscious mind, and lead us to what she calls this primordial archetype, which is our divine essence, the the the god within. Right? So, Yuri sending to you some thoughts. Let's maybe start by if you will unpacking what is Joanna trying to say right in your experience um how can we uh with your own words understand this idea of integration of the ego and the unconscious? How can we tap into that concept in more practical terms? What does it even look like in our day-to-day lives? Perfect. I think you have some very interesting um thoughts there. The idea is I I mean when we're thinking about the self with a capital S, as Joanna says, as Carl Yung says, uh we're thinking about this integration. So this process of this of integration as we go through life is extremely important because as you said very well nowadays there is this sort of culture or this understanding of the yolo. You only live once. So we try to please our senses. We try to make everything that's material better in an attempt to make us feel better, the inside feel better. But the reality of it is yes this life is brief. when compared to the immortality of the

We try to make everything that's material better in an attempt to make us feel better, the inside feel better. But the reality of it is yes this life is brief. when compared to the immortality of the soul through through the full individuation for for the accomplishment of the self with a capital S when we fully integrate that as we saw with our master Jesus the biggest and greatest example we've had of uh a being that was that has reached this process of the individuation and was extremely integrated and still came here to teach us. So this idea I think of the integration yes it will pass through as you said very well these trials and tribulations and these challenges that we have to go through we have to overcome them because as Joanna says very well uh in her book she's she's always talking about how one is always growing the person is always growing at every existence every time that we are here on earth we're learning something every time like and I'm speaking taken over. So it's more it's shorter for us to understand. But every time we are here, we're incarnated. We are definitely learning something as we go through life. And I think this process, the trials and errors and the mistakes that we make, they serve to and we can talk about the shadow as well eventually, but they serve for they serve to for us to understand a little bit more of the shadow, a little bit more of the ego and the understanding of how those how everything sort of connects. Yeah. I I I love it. And and I think two things uh Yodi uh number one when we talk about uh all the elements right that uh comes to play in in this material existence this this incarnation this life that we live as our uh personality. It's almost like a play or even a movie, right? The actor Yes. comes in and and there are all the sets of circumstances, the plot, the the aptitudes, the attitudes of the actors, how that actor that a character that the actor plays really brings into certain elements that will lead to the ultimate

sets of circumstances, the plot, the the aptitudes, the attitudes of the actors, how that actor that a character that the actor plays really brings into certain elements that will lead to the ultimate in in a fiction perspective, right? the ultimate goal of resolution of a major conflict. I think it speaks to us in our own journeys, right? Yes. All of this. Yeah. This orchestration of what is life, the family that we are born from, the education, the set of friends. I if we for example for I know a lot of people here Yodi uh that uh uh are uh people that their parents were part of the armed uh the the the army or navy etc. And as that lifestyle they kept moving every two years in a different city, in a different country, a different continent, right? And their their journeys are much more different than for example mine. I I lived I was born in this house and until I got married, that's the only structure physical structure that I called home. the same city. Um, therefore my identity are uh in and all of the things that I call home are deeply integrated with that site that physicality th those uh people in the neighborhood so on so forth. Right. But um another aspect that uh you you mention here brought me a thought right the the yolo thought process. You only live once. And this this desire, this zest for life really equates with, as you mentioned, pleasing our senses. And the inherent paradox of that is because we are focused on you know fulfilling our lives with uh opportunities for say experiences or whatever it is that we we can touch right the more technical tangible part of our lives but it's really a symptom of our emptiness, that existential, right? Existential emptiness. And the more we address that emptiness with things that are ephemeral, the more empty we become, right? Yes. I think again you're touching on very important psychological topics because again this this idea of pleasing our senses and uh pursuing material pleasures. This is very much ingrained

me, right? Yes. I think again you're touching on very important psychological topics because again this this idea of pleasing our senses and uh pursuing material pleasures. This is very much ingrained and on par with our own evolution as spirits. We are in a in a planet that is very much materialistic and where the matter still exerts a strong influence on us given our evolution as immortal spirits. So it is only natural that we would find the matter exerting this much control over our thoughts, control over what we're going to do. We even have in our brains the way they are developed, we have these dopamine pathways where we're let's say social media or or uh material pleasures they they give us this quick reward of dopamine, this quick shot of dopamine. Yes. On on on demand nowadays even. So it it is it becomes very much that addictive sort of personality or addictive um uh persona to the pleasures and the material things. So it is very much tied to what you said this the the emptiness. It's also tied to this idea of we're still evolving. We're still very materialistic because of our condition as spirits because of the planet that houses us in this evolutionary process that we're currently in. And if I may add another thing too, when you mention it, it made me think of when you said the emptiness made me think of Joanna D'Angelus in in her books when she's talking um she's saying she goes to say that there is a natural tendency for some people to feel sad. She says there's a natural tendency for some people especially like nowadays human beings to uh have this melancholic state and feel this sadness. Then she even brings it up that sometimes this this sadness now diving into a little more of the psychological aspect. She's saying that this sadness often times is the guilt that was internalized and is is being externalized as self- punishment from other reincarnations. Yeah. So again showing this continum continuum of our existence and how everything interconnects the things

was internalized and is is being externalized as self- punishment from other reincarnations. Yeah. So again showing this continum continuum of our existence and how everything interconnects the things we're we still need to learn they very much interconnect with things that we may have made a mistake in past life or we may have not gathered that lesson yet so we need to come here and then try again and learn from it again. What do you think? Yeah I I I love it. I I I love the where you putting here the the root cause if you will right. We we feel something. We may feel empty. We may feel sad. I tend to if I look at the the landscape of my community right Yori the majority of individuals that I know and I'm speaking to professionally speaking right very very very successful people uh financially with their family their object meeting their objectives everything is on par yet the level of anxiety Judy is unbelievable able and so it's it's my heart cries when I see that that uh and it's you know we we can think about it that living is not for the faint of heart we all are somehow subject but even then the anxiety for having to meet the standards and demands of this world right it's counterbalance to what you're saying and that is a a topic uh that Joanna brings whenever ever she's speaking about guilt that somehow the root cause of it all for the sadness or even for the anxiety uh etc or any other um psychological you know behavioral issues that we're going through uh psych and behavior issues. We are we are really talking about the fragmented right uh uh area of our psyche. Our soul our spirit is going through life but feeling very much not whole not uh it's just grasping between the duality of living life as a spirit in the material world. So those polarities keep almost like a pingpong. I'm here but I'm not there and I'm there but I'm not. Yes. Right. So absolutely ping pong is a great is a great uh way of of looking at it and also one thing that ties very well with what you said

ng. I'm here but I'm not there and I'm there but I'm not. Yes. Right. So absolutely ping pong is a great is a great uh way of of looking at it and also one thing that ties very well with what you said and I think is is this idea of free will that Joanna D'Angelo so aptly talks about in her books. this idea of um through our reincarnations that we have the free will is is what allows us is this instrument that allows us to choose and she says between uh good or evil, joy or sadness like she gives opposites like that and I really appreciate that part and her saying that because she then says that the only determinism the only fatality that exists is plentitude. Like the only the only thing that is certain and is this that's determined is that we will reach plenty that we will reach this process of individuation that we'll reach that point eventually a long time from now I think but we will reach we will reach that point. So that's a beautifully optimistic way of looking at something that seems sometimes so so drastic, so uh drab even where we're thinking, oh deterministic, you know, it's it's bad. We're no doomed to suffer. No, we're doomed for planitude. We're doomed for quotation marks and doomed for we're destined to planitude, you know. So Yudi here, right? You you are referencing uh actually two the content of two books that I love by the way by Jonah Deandress. Number one is the integral human being. Yes. Right. So she she speaks about all the things that uh potentially are distracting us from ourselves or moving away from ourselves and uh uh the the the need if you will to integrate to to create a sense of wholeness into our journeys in that book the integral human being and the next book in her series is plentitude that you just referenced where in the movie she talks about many different things but one of the items Yuri that in in that's the third book of the series I believe planitude um in that she suggests that this journey if you if we're talking about the journey of the

different things but one of the items Yuri that in in that's the third book of the series I believe planitude um in that she suggests that this journey if you if we're talking about the journey of the self right this journey that we go through allows us to uh confront but also overcome psych psychological conflict. So we we talked about this before, right? Y the the idea of all the suffering that the journey in a physical existence are really inherit in in in those paths in our choices free will right and the consequences of our choices. But she she suggests that um as we are you know overcoming transcending our conflicts psychological conflicts in this case um uh as we do that it it really a mechanism it's a catapult for us to free from the burdens from the past right so as we become freer in fear Once we overcome those conflicts, we are able or enabled if you will to be closer to a h how can I say an understanding of the divine within. So it seems um that this process can also tie quite well. So we're talking about planitude, we talked about the integral human being, but with also tying with the idea that Kusvung brought to us the idea of individuation, which you know in in so many words just means that in the process of individuation, we you here in our life, me, we all becoming our true authentic selves. Can you speak a little bit more about uh these psychological conflicts and how it is important for us to face them not hide away from them so that we can overcome absolutely and I think again it goes through this idea as you're saying before of life there's no life without pain the life that we know there's there's no life without pain or suffering the suffering we discussed this in a different like a different episode of of this podcast but this idea A that we should see or could see perhaps the suffering and the shortcomings, the pain that we sometimes face as instruments for our own process of this integration that you're talking about this this eventual uh the reaching of our

e perhaps the suffering and the shortcomings, the pain that we sometimes face as instruments for our own process of this integration that you're talking about this this eventual uh the reaching of our planitude. So the integration of the processes looking at at the conflicts that we still have within us cuz everything it's internal. We bring with us these conflicts from other lives from other uh points of our existence and we must face them. We must address them. We must uncover them, understand them. And I'll just make a parenthesis here often times with professional help. Um but we we the the eventual goal is to uncover them, understand them so we can address them because otherwise they're not going to go away on their own. They're not going to if they became they they continue to be unsolved or unresolved perhaps we can say they're going to carry on. If we if we have something that we must accomplish let's say now more on the spiritual side. If we have something we must accomplish in this life or we set know forth as a as our goal and we're shying away from that. We're hiding from that but we need that specific thing to reach the next level. We will have to face it eventually. So it becomes important for us to understand that there is no running away from these conflicts eventually. You know we need to uncover them. We need to address them and treat them. Yeah. So um back to your idea specifically of the role of free will right and uh Oh yes. So we we understand that um from you know spiritualistic spiritist and Joanna D'Angelus uh um how they bring the notion of free will. It's the idea that through our reincarnation and through our you know repeated prior experiences in this lifetime but before this one. I I love that free will is this incredible uh treasure that each one of us have in our hands every moment of our lives. And it is the idea that uh we are given the choice right the the freedom to choose but also in that mechanism of free will and of course the cause and effect right

our hands every moment of our lives. And it is the idea that uh we are given the choice right the the freedom to choose but also in that mechanism of free will and of course the cause and effect right that is part of u of that free will. We are given the chance to grow. We're given the chance to learn uh from failures and successes, but ultimately ultimately we're given the chance to to forge this path to shape our destinies, right? Um, can you comment and I I'd love for you to hear I don't know why but it the the thought popped in my mind Yuri that as I I said we are given the chance to forge uh our path um and somebody uh was telling me that the current um I don't know if you have any work with that or or any experience but the as as a parent maybe you do but the current uh generation of parents parents are no longer considered called the the helicopter parents, right? That hover around looking to make sure the kids are all right, but now they are the generation of the lawnmower parents where they are actually creating the path for their children instead of allowing the children to choose their own path, allowing the children to fail and learn from their failure. Any any thoughts on that? Have you have you thought about it? You as a a young parent, right? Yes. And what you're referencing, I think it's uh it's from the book The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Hayden. It's a great book on psychology bestseller I think last year or the year before and he mentions some he makes he makes that analogy where he says that there is no more helicopter not there's no more usually I mean before there were a lot of helicopter parents but now the generation he says it's the snow plower so like it's just the snow plow trucking the snow plower just extremely like removing everything in its path or just you know destroying everything creating the path not necessarily being on the helicopter watching you know the the child and everything because again we are and and we are going through this

h or just you know destroying everything creating the path not necessarily being on the helicopter watching you know the the child and everything because again we are and and we are going through this period of transformation and if we talk of planetary transition all of that but bringing more to ourselves our own lives we're seeing this change in society in general society in general especially the western world where we see this idea of the snowflower let's call the snowflower parent where they're they don't want their children to suffer they don't want their children to see pain. They don't want their children to uh have to discover things on their own. They everything is so easy nowadays because technology has allowed for a lot of comfort in our lives and a lot of safety. But the problem with the safetyism, which is a term that Jonathan Hay, the author, uses. The problem with the safety is is exactly this idea that we are we are depriving them. We're robbing their experiences for growth. We're robbing the that necessary uh growth such as the caterpillar to become butterfly needs to break out of the of the the shell themselves. If we go there, we cut it open, the butterfly dies. So this idea of we need to face some things on our own as children as well and as parents we must be aware of that that they will encounter suffering out there that they will encounter suffering even inside their own as they grow up and they if they find themselves without the tools. Yeah. And and it's very interesting um with the sense of safety, right? It is the concept that is born out of love. Would you would you agree? It is 100% born out of love. And as a parent, like I'm always conscious of trying to like walk that line of how much how much free reign should I give? And if I'm seeing something, they're playing on a playground, how much should I intervene and when should I intervene? But if they're doing some risky things to develop their bodies and their minds and their reflexes, I must allow that.

playing on a playground, how much should I intervene and when should I intervene? But if they're doing some risky things to develop their bodies and their minds and their reflexes, I must allow that. Even if I see them, I'm like, "Oh, I rather be there under them to hold them if they fall." But uh it's it's sort of this conscience of they need to go through that. They need to learn. If they fall, they fall and then they will learn from that. I have to I have to share two things from my own experience if it's okay, Yodi. But uh you know I was the considered uh in a in a family of six I was considered the perfect child at young child like no problem at school love to read love to study never ever ever went against my my parents will or dictim right to do this do that I just I was disobedient child h until I was no longer That's what happens adolescence, right? And and I I I went through so many disruptions that uh it was very interesting. But my mom would say to me when she could see clearly that I was in the crash course to to very bad choices, right, at right at that age. And she would say, "Honey, right? Don't do it. you will blah blah blah. And I would tell mom, "Let me fail." And she said, "Why would I do that to you? Because you're going there, but I have already been there." She would she would reference two-way street, right? That she already been there and came back and has learned from her own failure. So, she did not want me to to fail like her. So I thought it was very interesting this this battle of wills where I would say let me fail mother please. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's an it's an interesting piece that you bring because yes as parents if we could choose to have our children never to suffer never to have pain we would choose so out of love. The safety is born out of love. We want to create a safe environment. We want to create everything that's safe. But we also need to understand that when they go out there, yeah, when they go to school, when they go to work, when they

e want to create a safe environment. We want to create everything that's safe. But we also need to understand that when they go out there, yeah, when they go to school, when they go to work, when they eventually build their own families, when when their life carries on, we're not going to be there and they will suffer, they will have pain, they will have challenges that we won't be there to help them because one, we sometimes we can't and two, it's it's unfeasible. So it is this this constants constant process of maturing as a parent understanding how much should I let them fail and how much should I help you know and when tying back to our conversation of this path of of the journey of of the self of this path of inner to inner transformation we think of ourselves also like the adults who are listening to this of how we were as kids how we were raised and all of that what do we bring and also So what do we bring from our past experiences, from our past lives? Because those children that we have next to us, these are immortal spirits. They carry some luggage with them that we we don't know about. At least consciously, we don't know about. So we must understand that they have their own challenges. And sometimes if we try to take the opportunity away from them, we may be again be robbing an opportunity a moment for them to learn something they need to learn. Yeah. It it's very quite quite interesting and remarkable, right? Uh uh the that you bring to us the family unit, right? this this cell that the the most uh important cell of our society, our world is each member and how we two things two contradictory things number one is that we're there um to provide that imprint and the idea here Yuri is that I I always remember um St. Francis of Aizi, right? Where he would say, "Preach the gospel all the time. When and if you need it, use your words." I love that because our our examples, right, are indeed what has this indelible imprint in our children. No matter how much freedom they have or

all the time. When and if you need it, use your words." I love that because our our examples, right, are indeed what has this indelible imprint in our children. No matter how much freedom they have or not have to make mistakes or be successful, they see us as parents and they emulate from what we do our choices. It's our imprinting if you will. But the other aspect of it if I may say here is what you brought up uh and I just wanted to repeat for my own words the idea that in that cell while the parents are imprinting through their examples their their uh I I guess the compass right the the the north star that we hold dear and true that passes on to the next generation. We all of those family members, we are all immortal spirits. Meaning that how old is your youngest child, Yodi? The the oldest is five and a half. The youngest is one and a half. Well, let's pretend that one and a half year old child may be the oldest spirit, right? It could be and the most experienced, the most enlightened. It does not mean that you as a father um will not do everything to the best of your ability and knowledge and intention to to help mold and love the child, right? But it could be that the child is actually going to teach all of you in your family with the enlightenment that he already brought to to this to this life. Right? So I love if we can perhaps talk a little bit about how the concept of free will interconnects with the the the concept reincarnation in this context of spiritual growth, right? How uh how those two forces guide us to have this more conscious or even more purposeful existence? I think one of the things that Leon Denise says, another author that I know you and I you like as well. Um, yeah, he's he says the the the soul is the author of its own destiny or something like that. And I love that that this idea that this is free will in a sentence, you know, we are the authors of our own destinies. We are we are the ones that are going to either speed up the process or slow down the process.

t that this idea that this is free will in a sentence, you know, we are the authors of our own destinies. We are we are the ones that are going to either speed up the process or slow down the process. Although progress is inevitable, uh, but we are either going to speed up the process or slow the process based on what I said before, how much of these conflicts are we addressing and and and trying to improve from. How much are we actually facing inward? Because one of the things too that Joanna tying to Joanna the Angelus now says about um the idea of the inner transformation. Yeah. and the the inner self. She talks about how um trying to remember exactly what she what it was how if if we have basically if we are at peace within nothing from the outside can disturb us. Yeah. Right. So like I think that is very powerful when we think about that she talks about these adversaries or or the adversities themselves themselves from the outside they can't do anything harmful to those that's what she says to those who are free within to those who are free within so I think that again free will making our own choices and understanding that those choices will have consequences either positive or negative either to speed up the process or slow down the process of evolution of our own selves. We understand then that it's it's very much looking inward and making this change without expecting something from the outside. And I think that is the biggest trap or the biggest downfall that we often times have when we're trying to go for this journey of you know of of individuation or the journey of the self with a capital S when let's say we're working on forgiveness. Yeah. And we expect the other person if we make that step like I'm going to forgive and we expect them to forgive us and they don't all of a sudden it becomes so hard so much harder for us to forgive and vice versa. So expecting something from the outside is this I like to say trap is this thing where it's almost like a a pitfall that we have in this

ecomes so hard so much harder for us to forgive and vice versa. So expecting something from the outside is this I like to say trap is this thing where it's almost like a a pitfall that we have in this journey of self-discovery and inner change. What do you think? I I love it. But I have to go back to what you're saying about forgiveness right in this as as you mentioned because we we devoted several episodes uh in in the in a recent uh uh months to uh discussing or reference the parable of the prodigal son. And what comes to my mind? Excellent. When you talked about it uh Yodi is the fact that uh the prodigal son is the young child, right? The youngest child that does fails all of the things that he did and he comes back through the path of inner inner uh transformation. but also before he actually went through the his own inner transformation, the path of awakening his own consciousness, right? He goes, I would imagine this is my words in a in in 2,000 years ago in Palestine, very different. But let's pretend he is a young man today and he goes like, "Oh my goodness, what did I do?" Right? I really made a big mistake. What to do? what to do. And he comes back and he comes back not only with a sense of guilt for doing it wrong to the father, to the community, to everyone, right? to himself. But in a sense of humility, he comes back to confess to what he before was a very naive young person doing all sorts of wrong, right? But he comes back asking for forgiveness. And the father, what does he do, Yudi? He forgives immediately. Unc, you know, unconditionally. He just embraces him. He kisses the the young men upon his return. What I find it interesting here, what you're talking about is the fact that uh the older brother is quite upset when he sees the father forgiving. It's not about uh the act of forgiveness but this is something that we need to to to be aware somehow somewhere in our lives when we fail and we hurt and due to all the movements that we go through in in in

ot about uh the act of forgiveness but this is something that we need to to to be aware somehow somewhere in our lives when we fail and we hurt and due to all the movements that we go through in in in our path of self-discovery and inner transformation we will ask and receive forgiveness. But they are outsiders of this process that may not be yet at a point to even accept the forgiveness that is happening outside. Do do you know what I mean? He was really taken how father could you do this? How could you forgive? As if forgiveness was something uh bad, right? And I and I really like that idea for us to to be aware. Have we done that? How have we seen somebody that let's say this is completely fictitious, but I know somebody that did some really, really difficult things to Yudi, right? To you specifically, Yudi. And but the two of you reach a state of forgiveness. And I go like, "No, no, no, no, no." uh uh the drama in my head still fraught with conflicts. I I am still judging that person for hurting you. Isn't it interesting how those conflicts can linger in our minds beyond the conflict itself being resolved? Absolutely. And and the parable I love you brought that up because this something John also talks about the prodigal son. Yeah. It's very much applicable today. Yeah, it is it is one of those another one of those thousands of things that Jesus said uh that is very much applicable today. And we have these you know the three let's call the characters of of the story the two sons and the father and it's interesting because Joan is talking about how we must um we must go and face these experiences and then come back. So like we get out of ourselves to get in you know inside our own selves and make that change in a way. And I I love this sort of like imagining this movement of going out to go in or going out and then to discover something inside of us. And what did the father do? The father allowed him to go. Which is interesting as well. Most people don't focus on the

t of going out to go in or going out and then to discover something inside of us. And what did the father do? The father allowed him to go. Which is interesting as well. Most people don't focus on the beginning of the parable as well. understanding that um the the when the the young son you know said to his father like oh uh I want my shares of the state like everything he was he was asking even though the father knew it was not probably not going to end well from the material sense the father eventually let the young son go which is very much what we were talking about before like he let the young son go his youngest go and then once he made those mistakes that the that father and The parable probably predicted he comes back and he he embraces him. He's the merciful father. And of course, Jesus was making this parable uh to illustrate this idea of our heavenly father of God being this merciful being that allows us to have free will such as the father of the parable and allow us to exercise our free will to go and make mistakes but then we learn from those mistakes. And this is something very valuable from the parable to understand that the younger son learned from his mistakes, came back with humility. Yeah. And saw a merciful father embracing him. And I have to say I mentioned to you my mother in my prior dialogue with her many lifetimes ago. It feels like right decades ago. She like this parable was very merciful. She knew she knew it. And I somehow influenced her to accept me to keep going on that course that I forged and head on toward failure. She knew it. So when I came back hurt and all sorts of consequences from choices, she was there Yori and she embraced lovingly toward me. Yeah. And and so I think again um not only the parable the words by Jesus Jesus as Luke brings to us I think it's chapter 15 right 15 yes yeah verses I think 11 to32 it's a so it's a relatively short parable but it it is so contemporary if you start to look at it from all the lessons that it gives to us

hink it's chapter 15 right 15 yes yeah verses I think 11 to32 it's a so it's a relatively short parable but it it is so contemporary if you start to look at it from all the lessons that it gives to us right and then you look at the older son as well like you said so the youngest one set off to a distant country. Everything went wrong and he came back and the father embraced him and the oldest son was angry and envious and they don't want uh they don't want what happened with his younger brother like him receiving everything and what what does the father do also embraces the older son. So again, understanding this difference in these two spirits, the younger and the oldest son, just how important it is to embrace both of them, to meet them where they're at with love. Yeah. Because if you think about it, right, the father the father is completely he has reached the journey of the self, right? He's there. The young son is completely not. And he goes da da da. And it sets sets the the process of course correction. So when he gets to the worst of the worst, right? Uh the the the the the deepest end uh he comes back he start there's no more where he can go and fall even beyond that. He has reached the the worst of the worst. Then he comes back on a different movement toward himself. And I think this is for all of us. This is a lesson of, you know, be kind to yourself even when you're still going toward the the wrong direction in terms of uh using your free will and um you know dealing with a lot of uh difficulties. We're still coming back and we are able to come back and go back to the father. But as you said, the other brother, he is not there yet, right? He's stuck in a world of egoic judgment. He's still, in my opin, this is my opinion, everyone. Uh I believe the older brother was thinking, "Oh my goodness, he's coming back. You He's coming back and he wants more of the inheritance. What can I do to control? what I can do is not forgive him and interfere in the father to forgive

hinking, "Oh my goodness, he's coming back. You He's coming back and he wants more of the inheritance. What can I do to control? what I can do is not forgive him and interfere in the father to forgive because if the young son was quote unquote dead there would be no more impact to the material existence that the older son has. One of the things that is very interesting as well and uh um in the book by Ar Dutra uh on the parables right he discuss many many different parables but in this one he gives us a historical point of view right what was happening first century Palestine uh and he brings to to us an awareness that uh uh if somebody had made the same terrible choices and mistakes as the youngest child had done, Yodi, he would have been expelled, right? Oh, yes. Right. The the expel get out of here. Get out of my house. Get out. And but the the the uh bit of a a tribe, right? a very small community of people that lived in that that place would most likely had judged him just like the older brother judged and you would have stoned that young man to death for what he did. So it's very interesting right the idea of uh can we shift our our our thoughts our ideas our judgment and look at this beautiful parable uh and look at it how can I be forgiven even when I have all the right to not can I be the the the the the bigger one here yes and I mean it is very much what you're saying and I I'm thinking of again the father and the parable was spoken 2,000 years ago basically and if we think about it is still very much applicable today and we we're not at least you know stoning people anymore. So the idea is back then what he said, what Jesus said and when he said it was probably extremely outrageous for anybody to hear that and and think there's no way a father would would do that, you know. Um and we don't even have to go that far cuz the parable says that this the son squandered the money with property with prostitutes and a lot of again material things that we talked

do that, you know. Um and we don't even have to go that far cuz the parable says that this the son squandered the money with property with prostitutes and a lot of again material things that we talked about the material pleasures. We don't even need to go that far. If we think of Paul or before when he was Saul of Tarsus and how his father basically treated him and he didn't do half the things that the younger son in the in the parable has said and so we can definitely definitely see how taking into the context of the zeitgeist or like the whatever is h was happening in that moment in time culturally speaking it was extremely unheard of of a father to do that and the older son is sort of speaking as the the collective voice of the people who are saying who are saying the voice saying there's no way why you why are you showering him with all of this you know love all of these material things killing our fatten calf and the man the the the robe the mentor I forgot exactly what piece of clothing it was but the ring and all of those things why are you doing that after all he has done for our reputation cuz family back then was also very tied to the reputation it wasn't just the squandering of the material things, but how did you do it? So, you're you're staining, you know, the or tainting the name of the family, and the younger son has done that. So, the older one is basically the voice of the people back then. And it's so interesting to think that. Yeah. I I I I love where you're going, right? Because uh it is the zeitgeist, the spirit of an era, and we're talking about two millennia ago. But uh Yudi, if you go back to today, right? Uh what what is our zeitgeist in relationship to to judgment? I think the stones that we metaphorically throw at each other uh has become an alltimes um violence an all times peak of violence of uh just coming from everywhere because we do have things such as social media where my opinions are the stones, right? I can I can stone you, Yodi. I can so easily I can crucify

es peak of violence of uh just coming from everywhere because we do have things such as social media where my opinions are the stones, right? I can I can stone you, Yodi. I can so easily I can crucify you. I can kill you with my words, my opinions and made it publicly like a stoning and uh there's very little that you can do once it's cast. Right. Yes. Because technology has what it has done is has expanded expanded as mean like in terms of expansion this village. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, before it was just a community as you're saying and things didn't get broadcast that much. But now the the the metaphorical stones can come from all corners of the world because technology has allowed for that. Yeah. Yeah. But Yuri surprisingly we are at the end of our time. Do you have any final thought that you would like to to bring to everyone here before we go? I guess just in the in the same vein of this inner transformation is to understand that we must transform ourselves inwardly first and not the outward aspect will come after we transform the inner aspect. That inner aspect the transformation of that is rife with pain and challenge and and shame and all those things that we must face in order to accomplish it. So let's not don't let's not give up in our journeys. Yeah. I'd like to say thank you and uh to to to leave my final words which is uh acknowledgment that uh one of the most impactful parts of what Joanna uh teaches and that we brought today really full frontal right is the idea that the psychological and spiritual growth are deeply interconnected right Yodi and uh as such Joanna the brings uh um suggestions or or ideas that uh we uh whenever we face struggles, when we confront our challenges, we're actually opening ourselves up to the potential. It's not a a a a fatal thing but we are actually as we struggle as we are challenged as we fail that's when we are opening for our potential inner transformation inner growth and getting to where we need to be from that uh journey of the self right to to embark

le as we are challenged as we fail that's when we are opening for our potential inner transformation inner growth and getting to where we need to be from that uh journey of the self right to to embark on the path for inner transformation so I want to just Thank you. Thank you Yodi. Thank you everyone uh for tuning in to this episode. I do hope this uh very informal conversation uh has inspired you as much has inspired me to take the next step. Right? Let's go together on our own journey toward our self. Right? And until next time, I just want to say let us all embrace the idea of continuous evolving, continuous growth, continuous uh curiosity and and seeking answers. But uh for you, if this is the first time that you are listening to a program, please take a note that our psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based. You must have taken note of the works by Joanna Danggeles. And uh we do hope that you're able to perhaps expand your own concepts on you know by juxtaposing spirituality and psychological uh concepts. We want to also thank you not only beyond Yuyu Yudi, all of our sponsors, Monsano Camino, the United States Spiritist Federation, the International Spiritist Council, Army Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the medical spiritist association. We'll be back next week with another episode, so stay tuned. Until then, please take care and keep embracing the journey. Thanks everyone. Thank you.