Ep 113 - Self-Discovery & Transformation: The Archetype of Adam & Eve

Hi everyone, welcome to psychology and spirituality, a bridge to a better life discussion. During our weekly episodes, we explore the intersection of spirituality and psychology and as a result capture timeless wisdom containing both fields. Hi, my name is Marcia Trojano and I'm excited to have Josara Corn Go, the program founder and co-host with me today. Hi Josada, how are you doing? Hello Marcia, I'm doing great and I'm really again very excited for this new new journey. It's always so exciting every podcast that we make and we prepare ourselves knowing that there will be listeners with us. It's always so exciting. Hello everyone. Hi everyone. I would like to invite Josara here with me to work right maybe I I I can I put my hands here because I feel like we're massaging like a a piece of bread like the dough. We're we're massaging uh with thoughts on the mysteries of the human mind and soul. And I invite you Jasara for all of us here together understand a little bit more about the profound connection between psychological growth and spiritual evolution. So just let's go back to the beginning. Is that okay? Let's go back to a story that we all know yet few of us truly understand from the angle that I would like to explore with you today. Let's talk about the story of Adam and Eve. So, here it goes everyone. In the beginning, there was the Garden of Eden, an untouched paradise where everything existed in perfect harmony. Adam and Eve, the first humans in this story, lived without awareness of their individuality and they existed as one with the divine. Right? So there's a sense of uh closeness and and one connection. So as they lived with the divine in the garden of Eden, they also were free of suffering and conflicts. There was no knowledge for them of good and evil. No sense of separation, only a sense of unity, of oneness. And that sense was also with the world and with each other. I would say it was a time of innocence. But interesting enough with any story,

l. No sense of separation, only a sense of unity, of oneness. And that sense was also with the world and with each other. I would say it was a time of innocence. But interesting enough with any story, everything changed with a single act, the forbidden fruit. When Eve took the fruit and she just shared it with Adam, at that moment their eyes were open and they saw themselves for the first time no longer as divine beings but as and it's us right as vulnerable imperfect creatures. The knowledge of their nakedness flooded them with shame and the paradise that once sheltered them was lost. So the expulsion from Eden and this is an important topic that I would like to perhaps we can talk later but that expulsion was not a punishment but something right there was the beginning of something much greater and quite beautiful because it is the symbol of the awakening of our consciousness. So it was the start of a journey that we are all going through the same the journey towards self-awareness individuation and uh true understanding. So if we think about Josiah while Adam and Eve in the story were no longer in perfect unity or synchronicity or you know this this tangled in the their self-concept with the divine they were now separated. They were because of that sense of being separated. They were forced to navigate the complexities of life which includes and we talked about it before right it includes suffering includes joy but also includes a sense of loss at the same time that includes the sense of discovery. So I would like for us to perhaps explore how the smith of Adam and Eve serves as an archetype for the journey of the self. So just as they left the safety of Eden to discover their true nature, we too right Joada we must leave behind our unconscious unity with the divine and really start a new journey a new path toward self-discovery. So it is through most important learning from from this story for me it is is through this journey which includes struggles suffering and transformation that we get

y a new path toward self-discovery. So it is through most important learning from from this story for me it is is through this journey which includes struggles suffering and transformation that we get to know ourselves and ultimately return to this deeper more conscious connection with the divine. So Josada what are your thoughts? I had some questions just thinking about it that come to mind and maybe we can think about it uh as a as maybe some of the thoughts that we can talk about, right? For example, how does that story of Adam and Eve mirror our own psychological journey and how does it also uncover those lessons hidden with the myth that is quite old, right? How could their expulsion from paradise illuminate our own process of individuation and our own spiritual evolution? What do you think the story, this is for me, for you Josan and for everyone here, but what does the story teach us about overcoming our own shadow and reuniting with our higher self? What are your thoughts? Okay, Marcia. Um, first of all, I would like to to explain to everyone to clarify that u we are going to be analyzing the meat the story through um one angle. There are so many angles uh to look at the story and so um you know religions are going to present uh their angle um philosophy psychology and we are going to be analyzing this. So uh it's just one of the the one of the aspects one of the views that we are going to present of course h completely in tune to what we are talking about to what our podcast is all about psychology and spirituality. So we are going to be touching on the spiritual aspects the growth of the spirit for instance and of course how this manifests in terms of you know this inner journey and the the mind the self the ego the shadow all of those things. So it's just one interpretation and it's so amazing because this is what we we can do with those myths and and and parables and everything. The more you look at them, the more it's like, you know, you have a calDoscope you I mean you you move just

zing because this is what we we can do with those myths and and and parables and everything. The more you look at them, the more it's like, you know, you have a calDoscope you I mean you you move just a little bit and the change is the formats and colors completely. So this is this is it. And this this I think is you know those teachings that stay with us for you know for eternity I would say I don't know because there we are always learning from them. So in this case the gardening of Eden as we we can um and Adam and Eve. So we can connect that spiritually speaking to the moment where we are talking about the creation. Of course in terms of spirituality we do believe in a creator. We do believe that there was the the the the the start the um the starting point of all of this where we as as spirits uh is started uh popping out I don't know I don't know the process okay we don't process right people call it the breath of god right which I I find it quite poetic the the breath of God that with it each breath there is creation right and then um but at the beginning we do not uh come out uh with um that unity that conscious state that will really help us to understand who we are maybe we could think about the the the the period of a fetus during a manifestation right I mean you don't know exactly what you are what you will become and what your pot potential your limited powers right so we are in this situation we are in this transition that it comes to a point that very much like the birth we can make a connection here with Adam and Eve. Now it's time for you to leave paradise. You are living inside of a sheltered sheltered by all the protection, no responsibilities, no clarity of what was going on. But it comes a moment that you have to take the first breath for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And even that the sense of innocence right because the baby even after uh the period of gestation as you mentioned and birth it I it's that state of complete innocence that to me uh Adam and Eve

Yeah. And even that the sense of innocence right because the baby even after uh the period of gestation as you mentioned and birth it I it's that state of complete innocence that to me uh Adam and Eve represents before their awareness of or what they call the nakedness right when they become aware of who they are and the child I think it's about two years old when the child no longer sees herself himself as mom, right? As one unit with the mother and then there's this beginning of the the sense of their ego and their own personality. That's what I'm thinking about. What are your thoughts? Yeah. And that that's the process that we can see hereed on the story or the myth of Adam and Eve where were living completely unaware with no disability and everything was provided to them. They they had access to everything and and come on we would call that paradise right? Yes, I I would. You provide everything to me. I have no worries in this world. But it comes a point that you have. This is the reason why we were created to uh to to develop to grow to go through the path that call youngs would will call the path to individuation and that birth that you know supposeding from from paradise means uh finding out about myself and it's when there is you know this uh split between ego and self and We start taking note of that uh or or or perceiving um that we have you know those different sides and different uh interests that comes to mind at first and of course very much like the child it's the ego prevailing at the beginning because I I want things I want things that I I think I need that I need to survive. I'm not worried about the maturity of a spirit per se. In spical terms, we could also say that uh um I mean that could be the famous missing link uh that um we have when we go like in spiritism. I do believe that after the creation we go through the phases of vegetable uh mineral animal until we re re uh uh reach the uh homminid uh hormonal stage and this is when you know let's say the the

m. I do believe that after the creation we go through the phases of vegetable uh mineral animal until we re re uh uh reach the uh homminid uh hormonal stage and this is when you know let's say the the expelling the the growth now you have free will you have to be responsible for your action s actually began which we see portrayed very much in the story of Adam and Eve. I don't know to me. Yeah. And to me there's something interesting that you bring here Josetta which is the expulsion if you will from paradise really is a symbol of this the birth right the the process but it's really the the awakening right from that point our consciousness is awakened but very early just like Adam and Eve uh in that moment of exposion where they they they to me are lost. They're feeling so many uh conflicting emotions including shame etc etc. But from us this awakening of consciousness where perhaps we move from complete and um strong unity but unconscious right so we are one with the divine but we are cons unconscious of ourselves and as we separate we start to move toward look at me right the the whole nakedness of of Adam and Eve oh I am naked so this idea of and I'm looking myself here right uh of self-awareness and it starts that that process that is quite complex if we think about it and uh if we think about Joanna D'Angelus she brings across her body of work uh this this idea that we are here in this trajectory to expand our consciousness which goes hand inhand with the story today right we are awakened toward this we are self-aware but we need not only become self-aware but we need to grow and expand in that awareness in that consciousness as a spiritist you know we are always talking from the perspective of reincarnation correct but we don't even use reincarnation for you know to understand that just during one lifetime. Do you believe that we go through this process of you know feeling expelled many times you know maybe you uh when the the the baby still has months only

ow to understand that just during one lifetime. Do you believe that we go through this process of you know feeling expelled many times you know maybe you uh when the the the baby still has months only some months when it reached like 11 months close to a year there we are waiting anxiously anxiously for them to start walking. Mhm. Maybe in their mind they're thinking, I'm very comfortable the way I am. Why do I have to struggle and start exercising? It's hard to to walk and to start having a different panorama around me. So now everything is raised and my universe was up to I don't know a few inches. Now I have to have a spatial uh um knowledge or understanding of diff a different surrounding. So we never think actually about all that and but we know that these are the steps that are necessary. Then goes other fa we go through other phases and we go to the phase where you know you're no longer going to stay sheltered at home. it's time for you to start going to school and kindergarten. And I mean, I'm comfortable here. I don't want to go there. I don't want it perhaps to, you know, to have to uh have relationship with other, you know. Yes. Yes. People like me. And then it comes the phase where you go through, you know, your your senior years and you have to think about college. And then you have to think about, you know, now I I I'm graduated and now I have to think about work and then I have to think about, you know, having a relationship, marrying, having children. So we are constantly being expelled from exactly comfortable positions that we acquire but always with a name of progressing of experiencing new things of being capable like you said sometimes it comes through so many different conflicting emotions right because I know that I have to do that but I don't want I don't want to talk. I don't want to walk. I don't want to go to college. Or all those things that you you think we think that we know better. I don't want to learn how to read and write, but then

nt I don't want to talk. I don't want to walk. I don't want to go to college. Or all those things that you you think we think that we know better. I don't want to learn how to read and write, but then when you learn to read and write and say, "Oh my god, the horizon just opens, right? It's it's just an amazing thing." And quite frankly, just I don't know if you can think of it, but I if I as you're talking about the journey of the first steps, right, to to going to school, so on so forth, if I go back into memory lane, every single quote unquote exposion from the the the state of comfort and accommodation, if you will, right? when we go from what we know to the unknown of the next cycle of our lives uh on a personal journey um there was never fear and and the more you spoke the more I could think about like no there was always this sense of excitement this sense of something else to uncover something else to to to become the pioneer in your life Right. So, I think you started this by referencing reincarnation and I love it because reincarnation brings us this sense of uh you get to learn through lessons of an existence. Just like the child that falls right before it can can walk the first attempt at standing up. There is this a a a number of huge learnings in in this in this body of ours that is so such a an amazing machine. But all of the things that happens there's le lessons to be learned. And likewise, if you can extrapolate that each step that we take into an existence as as a human being, right, we start to learn more and shape or further refine our destiny. So I I I love that idea of how the concept of reincarnation can help us all understand that we're giving from the amazing love and mercy from our creator, our father. We're given the repeated opportunities to self-correct, right? And as we self-correct, so it's us with us about ourselves, we also grow spiritually through this existence and the next and beyond. So uh I love it. Maybe if you want to I don't know if it plays well

And as we self-correct, so it's us with us about ourselves, we also grow spiritually through this existence and the next and beyond. So uh I love it. Maybe if you want to I don't know if it plays well but maybe uh can we talk about how does free will contribute to this ongoing journey of uh of uh learning and correcting and uh becoming self-aware or more self-aware with with our failings. What are your thoughts? Yeah, just to to add up to what I was saying before, in the same way that when it comes the time for us to attend school, our parents will, you know, even force us to go to school if that is the case. Yeah. You know, uh it's not because of something bad that we did. It's not in the case of Adam and Eve just a disobedience. It it is time for you to go and experience things on your own, to toil on your own, right? And and that will mean that there will be experiences that will be very pleasant and others not necessarily. And um and and the thing is when we talk about free will and the possibility of reincarnation, I think it's it's so important for us to to have and to understand those concepts. I I truly don't know how, you know, how I could go through life without that, without knowing that uh I have responsibility that I'm not a puppet in someone's game or the creator's game or you know, I'm just uh I I I I had this creation. I had this push to now it's time you're ready for the next stage of the game, you know, game, but uh of life. Uh because here is where you are going to be growing where you are going to have this uh self-consciousness where you are going to be having the opportunity to harmonize consciously speaking ego and self because so far while while I were in the garden of Eden I wasn't even unaware of that. Now I have the opportunity of you know moving out going into the world and according to my choices I will be having a response. Yes. So I choose A. There will be a proper answer for the A or for the B or for the C. And I'm going to be the one

ing out going into the world and according to my choices I will be having a response. Yes. So I choose A. There will be a proper answer for the A or for the B or for the C. And I'm going to be the one that will judge whether I like the ABC better than you know the other and I'm going to repeat or not those experience sometimes. Yes. Because we are still in the process of growing and we are still very much misguided by our own ego. Right. That's right. and and and as such right very naive very there is a that again that back to that innocence driven by ego uh to to get out right and and and become who we think we are our personality that is created with many different personas that we we get it but but it is it's still a very naive process until we can become truly mature those My thoughts Josada that journey that you know that initial ego-driven journey like the baby right so selfcentered but we don't look at the baby and and go like as the baby's crying oh stop crying you self-centered being no it is it is there because that's exactly the time that the baby needs to be taken care of and and and and for you know survival it is what we he or she needs before it can become to take care of himself herself right yes and uh in in this process of you know free will of choices and learning through the process of course many times we are going to choose wrong because we are going to be um more prone to listen to the voice of, you know, the the ego to uh the limelights and all of that. that is the illusions that surround us and um we will not be paying that much attention to the purpose that we are here and the purpose is to grow but it's from part of our growing and there is one part that I I I like very much when Joanna D'Angel addresses this topic you know uh in tune with uh Kustav Young where he talks about the process of individuation And how this process means also suffering and you know it's removing the layers that are unnecessary for us that we we don't need in this journey. naturally

he talks about the process of individuation And how this process means also suffering and you know it's removing the layers that are unnecessary for us that we we don't need in this journey. naturally uh make a bridge in this gap between ego and and self where one is not going to be be annihilating the other but it is going to be in sync where we have to deal uh with the abyss. Yes. Think about the bridge. I have one side the ego, the other side the self and we have to you know to work together and there is this abbies that we call the shadow and I think I like it very much the way Joanna presents it because she says in all this process of independence of growing in this personal development of you know self-discovery of transformation there is no way we can go through that without looking at the abyss without uh being uh aware that yes there is you know this shadow these negative traits the things that we are trying to bury not uh because they will make us feel like you say shame shameful and and and hurt and and and we want to hide this this side of us but this is what where she comes and she says There is need for the integration of the shadow. We have to embrace the shadow. I have to know what my weak links are and how can you know overcome them. And there comes choice. There comes free will. There comes new opportunities for new life for new reincarnation because come on, we cannot do all of that in just one. And I'm so glad I I mean one of the most wonderful things I I I think about when I think about is you know is being immortal right but sometimes we will feel more this you you know immortality from the um being um a very imperfect being right I don't think I like it but we have to to look at it from the perspective that I'm constantly growing and constantly learning and having more possibility in this h in this journey to come. So depending on how we choose right that the free will we can tell for sure that the next incarnation is always going to be better. Yes. So, so just to to to recap

y in this h in this journey to come. So depending on how we choose right that the free will we can tell for sure that the next incarnation is always going to be better. Yes. So, so just to to to recap so we can all uh go back to what you mentioned here which is so important right these uh process of awakening of our own consciousness um starts with this recognition of our duality light and shadow in this case but also they're very closely match the idea of ego and self and uh that Those sense of polarities within ourselves, they really show us that uh our psychological journey toward maturity is again uh moving from that innocence, the age of innocence or unconsciousness to self-awareness. And that's when as you mentioned Josada talking about um shadow work uh or uh simply put in other words to push us to confront the parts of ourselves that we've repressed or denied most likely because of guilt or shame or things that we don't accept based on our egoic construct. So for me, Josada, that integration, the work that we do to integrate our shadow is really essential for um our transformation because it is exactly and it's quite uncomfortable by the way, but it's exactly doing that that will allow us to to start to embrace the full spectrum of who we are. Right? So fears, anxieties, worries, all of our flaws, all of the unresolved aspects of who we are. And the integration, I believe, really leads us to a sense of balance, right? We are we're becoming from this duality into one um you know, wholesome uh balanced being. And at the same time it is quite interesting because away from that sense of innocence or naivity from a spiritual perspective now we become much more authentic and much more self-aware and conscious which is all in all a much better version of who we are. Uh so I I love what you're saying that the need to to confront the the deep right because it's it's quite deeply buried sometimes uh those parts of ourselves that we don't want anybody to see. We don't even want ourselves to

re saying that the need to to confront the the deep right because it's it's quite deeply buried sometimes uh those parts of ourselves that we don't want anybody to see. We don't even want ourselves to see. But the process that requires so much courage is one that may feel like it's fraught with missteps, fraught with um sense of failure, right? Oh, I can't believe I'm being this. But that's when we start to exercise self-love, self forgiveness, and embracing all that we are as a whole. Yeah. You see uh when um again talking about Adam and Eve, yeah. When the you know with this movement outside of you know being expelled so to say from the Garden of Eden they they recognize you know this shame and vulnerability that they had which exactly represents this shadow rising into consciousness. Just this past week, a person, a friend of mine called me. She she needed to talk to me and um actually she wanted to confiding me because I I believe this is something that happened with all of us. They are trying to become better people and especially in this field of spirituality of you know acquiring new values. So um there will come a time that we will have to find to find in ourselves and to leave contradictions and that's what was happening to her. She was t telling me and narrating to me about an experience that she had that she had to conf that she had to confront this shadow side and she said listen I don't know why I reacted this way. I don't think this way. I don't want to be this person. Uhhuh. And I was so surprised with my reaction and at the same time she was beating up herself. Yeah. Because how could she, you know, with all the knowledge and understanding and trying to become better a better person still feel the way she was feeling. And it was I said, "You know what? I'm I was just reading this chapter, the book of Joanna the Angelus." And she's the one that is going to give you the answer because you know she's talking about the integration of the shadow. And what does this mean?

ading this chapter, the book of Joanna the Angelus." And she's the one that is going to give you the answer because you know she's talking about the integration of the shadow. And what does this mean? It means it there is no point in us just trying to beat beat up ourselves. It's just going to put you down. Yes. We have to be the selfawareness cannot uh and and and transformation and inner transformation cannot help unless we reconcile uh this uh thought in our mind that yes there are many um shadowy traits that we still carry within our ourselves. We are learning you know sometimes not as much as we feel this way but society taught us before let's say society wouldn't care if a noble man would just kill a peasant that's it's absolutely right yes saw that it would be absolutely normal but now of course just by saying it out out loud It makes me feel nauseated because how come you know it's a human being it has nothing to be with you know to do with uh the economical position you you're in. So we we we carry within ourselves so many of those values that we have learned. I mean this is the right way to proceed but now the ways are changing and we have to change but we don't change overnight. And this is you know is the suffering because you know old old h old old habits die hard right that's the process. So the suffering here of you know this discovery of ourselves I it's actually working in our our our favor. It's not a punishment. is to has become each time more aware of what we are and what should be the the the new ways in accordance with his spiritual values. Yeah, absolutely. Um I wanted to maybe for a little bit more academic here just but maybe uh spend a few minutes talking how does for example this myth this story right of Adam and Eve um relates or is seen from a religious or from a psychological basically a yian um u understanding of the myth and how spirit ism does in in questions such as that we find in in the Adam and Eve, right? Self-discovery, individuation, or

us or from a psychological basically a yian um u understanding of the myth and how spirit ism does in in questions such as that we find in in the Adam and Eve, right? Self-discovery, individuation, or even spiritual evolution. Do you have any any ways to to explain to me and to everyone here today? What how do they compare uh between those those three perspectives? Yes. Is there anything that you could maybe bring to us? We have some you know concepts that we could we could be analyzing this perspective and um you know in the case of primordial state for instance in in the biblical narrative we have like the existence of Eden the unconscious unity with God no knowledge of good and evil. Young would go young would go and say about the self this that exists in this state of unconsciousness and how we have the potential to go to grow and the in terms of spiritism we talk about the spirit as being created simple and unenlightened and have possibility of reincarnation. So um the shame and awareness of nakedness for for instance we can talk about vulnerability that uh uh is recognized in in terms biblical narrative all of a sudden they became uh you know they had shame of who they they were and young he talks about the animals which is very interesting. thing and so personality and psychological conflicts that we we may have and in spiritism as we you know we go through those reincarnations that we are going to be recognizing the imperfections that we we have uh and the misdeeds we committed in the past. Uh so there are you know the very interesting those those how each the same concept right is seen differently but they complement each other right yes like for instance the shadow so the serpent represents the shadow right oh I love it claiming the serpent that being right there is serpent there that the serpent gave you the apple but I cannot bite for you. That's right. So that is sign of free will. You know when I got the apple and I knew this was a forbidden fruit. I knew it. I chose that is the

he serpent gave you the apple but I cannot bite for you. That's right. So that is sign of free will. You know when I got the apple and I knew this was a forbidden fruit. I knew it. I chose that is the first moment where we see you know the missing link the actually the growth and and and the same thing for Adam. uh Eve presented to him the same way that the serpent presented to him, but he was the one that uh would decide to bite and to sw the apple, right? So uh and yung we see that the shadows represent this unconscious uh aspect this repressed instinct. So we want like you know this case that I was talking about this friend she wanted to repress that emotion this is bad stay hidden you're not going to solve the problem if you do that you have to recognize that there is something there and in in spiritual terms the shadow can be all this karmic burdens the past actions that we bring with us and many times we say oh I cannot be responsible for the things I did in the best. Oh, I love it. Yes, I love it. I I always remember and I'm trying to to think of who's the painter uh famous uh pre Leonardo da Vinci, for example. He was Leonardo's um master uh that he really admired. But uh in the Adam and Eve scene, it's Adam, well, God asking Adam and he points the finger, right? And uh to uh to uh Eve, and Eve points the finger to to the apple and the the to the serpent and the serpent points the finger to the apple. So, it's this it wasn't me. It wasn't me. But I I love this uh there is interesting aspects of the courage that it takes to say I did it right. I did it. And that is in so many people call it a shadow work where I am willing to unbburden right everything that I have done including uh from a free will perspective all the bad choices if we could judge them all the choices that did not go so well because they are my choices and as a shadow says those the things that I may have filtered right through this persona that I am today but because it is me I by repressing those

that did not go so well because they are my choices and as a shadow says those the things that I may have filtered right through this persona that I am today but because it is me I by repressing those parts of myself I am actually living in conflict with who I truly am right and an interesting thing is that it's even contradictory uh from the religious perspective when we say that God created everything perfect like God is perfect. Uh why would he created a fruit that would it would be a forbidden fruit? So yeah that's and just to to you know for us to uh to wrap up here there there is one point in this whole story and and and comparison that we can make between you know this uh three aspects of yung and spirituality and and the the biblical aspect that is the return to the father the return to god to the divine essence. So uh from biblical aspect at this uh the the journey would be you know to transcend the suffering return to divine unity but in a conscious way yung would say is when you reach this feel fully individuated self. So it's like you return but in holiness and planitude right integrating ego shadow and the arch types and the spirit from the spiritual perspective that reunites with God through a spiritual evolution reaching this nominal state. But the thing is never to return the way you were but now a perfect being which is different because now before you were you know this fettos you didn't know anything. Now you go through life or through lives and you have time to adjust to learn to um to integrate yourself in a way that you reach the state of wholeness and become whole in God as well. So you do not return to any place because this is a state of mind. It's not a physical place. So the garden of Eden is not a physical place. Correct. The starting point of the spirit's journey into this process of individuation. Oh, beautiful, beautifully said. Uh unfortunately, we are at the end of our time together. So uh maybe I if I try to restate all the really great nuggets of

journey into this process of individuation. Oh, beautiful, beautifully said. Uh unfortunately, we are at the end of our time together. So uh maybe I if I try to restate all the really great nuggets of knowledge that you provided to all of us here Josada I would say that the journey of self-discovery and transformation um you know as as exemplified in the myth of Adam and Eve they do uh mirror they express our own path of individuation as per call Gustav Right? And in from a spiritual perspective, it is our it's all about our spiritual growth as spirits, immortal spirits. So the idea here is that when we face our inner struggles, we are able to embrace the integration of our shadows. And as a result, we're able to learn from, you know, all the challenges that life presents to us. All the things that gives us gray hair and all the wrinkles, right, as we grow old, it's just really each challenge that we face, we we overcome. We transcend the prior state, that comfort, the the the the place of comfort that we were before. And we become you know the we ex there's an exposion to the next you know from one paradise to the next but it is that path that makes us move toward greater and greater self-awareness and I love the the concept of reignment with the divine. So when we evolve, we contribute now no longer in the egoic, self-centered um you know childlike naive innocent being that we were. But we start to contribute to this collective transformation of society, right? we demonstrate that uh the changes that must be attained begins within each step. So um I know that uh Jesus for example uh as a as a as a being of light he was able to transcend suffering. He was able to balance his ego and himself, right? And he ultimately was able to create this amazing ripple effect that led to a much more compassionate and harmonious world. All we have to do is look before and after Jesus. But all of those um questions are questions that we should think to ourselves. How can I in my own

to a much more compassionate and harmonious world. All we have to do is look before and after Jesus. But all of those um questions are questions that we should think to ourselves. How can I in my own very personal very individual journey can do the same? How can I look at each thing that comes toward me as a challenge or um my own self-doubts, my self questions, how can I use them to be able to embrace and learn and forgive if necessary? But Josada because at the time I just want to say to all of you, thank you. Thank you for being here and for all of you who are there, thank you. Especially if this was the first time that you're here with us today. Please note that the psychology and spirituality weekly talks are based on the works by Joanna D'Angelus. And we do hope that you're able to I don't know uh expand your own concepts both um spiritual concept as well as a psychological concepts to understand and look and in this case look at this biblical passage and start to to to compare them from different lenses. I want to say thank you all, but especially I want to thank our sponsors, Mansu Communion, the United States Spirits Federation, the International Spiritist Council, and Army Brazil, the Brazilian arm of the Medical Spiritist Association. We'll be back next week with another episode. And I just want to say thank you for being here with us. So long, everyone. Bye everyone.