Ep 155 - Spiritual Self-Esteem: Rediscovering Our Inner Value - pt 1

Hello everyone. Welcome to psychology and spirituality a bridge to a better life discussion. Each week we meet to explore the intersection of psychology and spirituality. And the purpose here is to uncover some oh some timeless wisdom that will help all of us live a greater a life with a greater access to meaning and purpose. I want to also um extend this this welcome beyond our all of you our listeners but uh to uh this um to this episode that we're going to be here. My name is Marcia Djano and I am super super uh excited to be here to discuss the thought the topic about self-esteem. Right. And uh we're going to talk about this with the wisdom of Joanna D'Angelus and all the the work and her contributions to spiritual psychology. um happy to have Mahusi H to who was a wonderful thinker by the way to join us in this discussion and Mahuci I would love to have a little bit of your clarity with warmth always and your experience on this topic thank you thank you so much for being here so uh let's begin with um the if you don't mind my Lucy Okay. Uh if we can start talking about uh maybe how what we understand as a difference between ego right and self. How do those two uh definitions interact? And I know there are many of you out there that know this. You heard this before, but I would love to hear Mahusi talk about it and especially perhaps uh bring some of the thoughts that Jonah the Angelus sheds into the topic. >> Hi Maria, thank you very much for this invitation. It's I'm very happy to talk about this theme because this makes sense to me. And uh when you are talking about ego and self is important I think to point out that we are talking about a way to understand the human psyche. Okay. This is a first idea that I I would like to to to bring because there are very there are many theories about human psyche, you know, and Joanna D'Angelus brings in his uh in her books. Um this this idea of the psyche that is very aligned with the thought of Ka Gustav that was a psychiatrist of the

ries about human psyche, you know, and Joanna D'Angelus brings in his uh in her books. Um this this idea of the psyche that is very aligned with the thought of Ka Gustav that was a psychiatrist of the last century. you know a very important thinker that nowadays we are uh giving his true true value of uh uh his ideas uh the first idea that I would like to bring is that perhaps many people's does not have this idea that we have two great instance c can we say this word instance >> yes >> yes unconsciousness and consciousness okay why I'm I'm saying that because many schools does not consider the importance that unconsciousness has in our psyche as Joanna D'Angelus and you considers. Okay. So the first idea is that these two great instance and when we are talking about self we are talking about this self that includes or that is this totality that includes unconsciousness and consciousness. Self is this idea at the same time self is this totality but it's a very complex idea but is the center of all of this. >> Okay. And the ego when we talking about the ego so we take this consciousness and we say the ego is the center of this consciousness >> and it's then there starts the problem right when you say self is totality and there's a center but the ego which is only consciousness also is the center go ahead I'm sorry to have interrupted you but I I find it this is the crux of the matter for our inability to truly understand >> but to have an know help me to explain it because my English is not good enough to explain this this concept. >> Oh, you're wonderful. Thank you. very complex you know >> but when we are talking about unconsciousness uh Joanna brings us an imag how do we say the weight the opo that >> yeah the weight >> the weight it has in our psyche so let's imagine a great ocean you know this we could have an idea of our unconsciousness okay now let's imagine an island in this ocean. This we could think as the consciousness and let's let now let's imagine one tree

great ocean you know this we could have an idea of our unconsciousness okay now let's imagine an island in this ocean. This we could think as the consciousness and let's let now let's imagine one tree in this island. This is the ego. So self is all of this you know. >> Yes. >> I'm not trying to simplify very much the things but to bring images just to have an idea. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So this tree in the island does not know what happens inside the ocean. does not know what happens around the island. But one thing that is very very very fundamental to understand is that even if this ego is just one tree in the island, he's very important and he's fundamental to our life. Because it's through this ego that we get a relationship with our psyche with all the subjects that we have a relationship with life. >> Yeah. >> But this ego has a very uh restrict idea or how do we say this? um the reality. He has a perception of the reality that is just it's like when you put focus, you know, imagine that you have a light and you put a focus on something. This is what ego does. >> But when we put focus on something, we do not see the large uh reality. >> Can I can I say something that an image that came to mind? But it's because I love the idea of the entire vastness of the ocean as the totality of our self and within that totality there's a small island within that small island there's a tree and that's the ego very important right one within the other but one has a strong perception though limited right so think about it uh this is what comes to mind It's very the ocean very li very fluid as it is water but very fluid formless right it's it's it's huge but it's fluid and and and complex whereas the tree is very specific it's very tangible you can you you know where it is the ego knows where it is it's that tree within that that island but the image that came to me I don't know why mahos This is the first time I I thought about it is as the baby, all right, the baby the little the egg that

t is it's that tree within that that island but the image that came to me I don't know why mahos This is the first time I I thought about it is as the baby, all right, the baby the little the egg that becomes fertilized and grows into an embryo and becomes a fetus and becomes a baby in the first what is it two years of life. It's perception that it is not a baby with let's say baby Marcia, right? It's not Marcia but it is the mother >> right. So the baby the perception up until the ego in this case is starts to be created it is uh self-perception as the whole completely dependent of mother baby right >> and it is only when there's that perception the ego that that person in this case I gave my name Marcia becomes oh I see myself in the mirror I can see myself etc etc. So this is almost a reversal of what we're discussing here but uh it it it may be making sense to me the description or the difference between ego and self right and remember everyone we're going to talk about self-esteem so it's yet a third or fourth or fifth layer into this discussion right my Lucy >> yes >> we are trying to give the basis to understand self-esteem you related to ego and to self. But first of all, we have to understand this. It's a very good image that you brings because we could say that our ego comes from ourself as the baby comes from the the mother and the father. And in terms in spiritual terms uh we can say that God the self using as God as image of the self you know needs the human being to be manifested in this universe. >> So the great instance need the small one to to incarnate to manifest that. >> Yeah. And the ego is really very very important because he gives us this idea of identity you know and and when we we when this ego uh is constructed in our life since that uh we are in the womb of our mom we receive many informations you know and then when we we are construct in each incarnation we We build as we we build a new identity this identity that we call ego will be fundamental to leave all the

e receive many informations you know and then when we we are construct in each incarnation we We build as we we build a new identity this identity that we call ego will be fundamental to leave all the experience that we came here to live. >> So I must the ego give us this idea that we belong to something that you know I have this ego in this incarnation. I am Marlusi. I am Brazilian. I am here talking to Marcia about this and that. I know that today is a sunny day here in Brazil. This is this identity. It's it's like an identity card. But the problem is that this ego uh if he does not if he's not um conscience that there is another instance bigger than >> can I can I can I change the word that you're using because it is correct but I think it may embroil our heads a little bit it is not aware right it is conscious but >> it's not aware yes >> aware okay Yes. If he's not aware, okay, thank you. Yes. If he's not aware of the self, he thinks he is the totality by itself. Okay. That's the point. >> Yeah. >> And this uh is this is the cause of many uh new roses that we have. >> Yes. >> Because we see the reality through the perspective only for the ego. So if the ego is living he's living his life okay doing things and but if he thinks that he is the the totality >> one of the thing of the ego is trying to control everything. >> Yes. Yeah. >> And then starts our problems. >> Yeah. So for all of us we we're listening to Mahusi saying that it is okay to be neurotic. It is okay to be a control freak and I'm just kidding here everyone because it is just part of that lack of awareness of the intricate relationship between ego self right and and actually the psyche as it is being defined. Thank you Balus. This this really helps. But uh I think you wanted to to go further with uh with that >> if you allow me just to give you another imag brings us in I can't remember the book now >> but she brings this image of an immense um castle >> you know a property. >> Yes. So this self would be this all this

low me just to give you another imag brings us in I can't remember the book now >> but she brings this image of an immense um castle >> you know a property. >> Yes. So this self would be this all this property you know the castle the land but this castle has a a gatekeeper you know that says you can come in you cannot people trying this is the ego >> this is the ego but as the ego has this power to say you can come in you cannot that he can thinks that he's the owner of the castle So this is a very good idea that a great image for me to understand this this dimension now of self and and ego >> and and uh uh I believe for all of us let's not think that we're the king of the castle right >> the owner of it all which is really God right Yes. >> But the ego is just opening the door and and having a say, if you will, on the access to to all that enters into our awareness. It's correct to say consciousness, right? But uh it we're because we're talking about consciousness, it's it's uh perhaps better to use the word awareness. Yeah. Yeah. So tell us about the self then, right? because I I think uh uh from a spiritist perspective right and and we're talking about spiritist psychology uh it's important when we and I think you mentioned already the self is that immortal core right it's a small immortal spirit the it is also divine consciousness within us correct >> yes uh Joanna will uh talk about self self I think it's because we can talk about things using different perspectives so a spirit spiritual perspective we say that we have we are spirits >> living we that he's a a spirit >> I French French author he says that we are particles of the absolute >> I love this idea >> we don't know what is absolute is we think about God or universe or something >> transpersonal >> and we are particles of it each of us >> so giving this idea that we are all connected >> and Um the point is that when I think about self self when Jung brings this idea and and let's open a parenthesis here Jung

rticles of it each of us >> so giving this idea that we are all connected >> and Um the point is that when I think about self self when Jung brings this idea and and let's open a parenthesis here Jung was a psychiatrist was a a doctor you know and he was interested in uh bring these ideas in a in a language that people could understand this. So he was accused to be mystic or things like that. Okay? Because he was speaking about he was talking about things that many people felt it but didn't dare to do this. I this is my vision of young. Okay. >> Yeah. It's interesting. Um, Lucy and everyone. Um, I had the beautiful, beautiful honor and opportunity to while in Zurich to go see his his house, Congress of Yung house. And uh, oh my goodness, it's a building, but there's so much more. It really touched me. And I remember um many many years ago by Lucy, but I remember many of the people that were at the house visiting in in this it was a not a tour per se, but we were taking in to see all a little bit of the reflection that the expression of of his intellect and his work, right? And interesting enough, a lot of people said exactly what you said. Oh, he was a mystic and I I remember a little bit like you what you're saying or trying to say here is uh he needed to bring this new language to express what was still a very young discipline, right? Psychiatry. uh but if only looking from the materialistic viewpoint it is not enough. So uh he had to be courageous and and uh um transcend I I think you you mentioned transcendental before the word, right? But transcend the gateway between materialism and spirituality or spiritism or spiritual spiritualism to be able to to bring the the the whole that this this discussions that he speaks so well uh can that can really en enlighten us, right? >> Yes. Because since a very uh young uh age Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He was um a ve he had a very open mind for different things, you know, >> and and this is very important because the materialist the materialistic view

e since a very uh young uh age Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He was um a ve he had a very open mind for different things, you know, >> and and this is very important because the materialist the materialistic view is that one thing just exist if you can prove it in the way with the tools that we have. >> Yeah, >> that's the point. Jung says and many thinkers well these things exist even though we do not have yet the language or the tools to understand it. >> Yeah. Beautifully said. Yeah. Yeah. >> The phenomenon exist. So when he thinks about this idea of self you know he was he was in a very young age he was a a a doctor that was working in a psychiatry hospital. Yeah. And uh he used to pay attention, you know, in a different way with God with the the patients that were in this hospital because they were considered uh uh schizophrenics, you know, they were considering nuts or how do we say that? >> Yeah. Well, crazy or the sling out there, right? So nuts, crazy, not balance, etc. which is a cruel way, a perverse way to label somebody who's undergoing in that case mental health issues. Right? >> So, Yung thought these people are saying these nonsense things >> but it's nonsense for me but there is there must be a sense of it even even though I do not understand. >> That's that's that's so true. Yeah. And with this perspective, you know, he never lost this way to look a phenomenon and said there is something we do not understand but it exists. >> Yeah. >> So examining this the the dreams you know so with this um posture you know he he he became to understand what we call uh unconsciousness after that. Yes. you know. >> Yeah. >> And he said we'd give a name but we don't know what unconsciousness is but we must give a name for it. >> Yeah. >> And so he said we are much more than this identity this ego. And he he start to think that these schizophrenic patients had no he did they did not have an ego structure strong enough to deal with all this uh conteudus how do we say that >> content the cont

ego. And he he start to think that these schizophrenic patients had no he did they did not have an ego structure strong enough to deal with all this uh conteudus how do we say that >> content the cont >> content that came from the unconsciousness >> and and that's why it goes going back to what you just said earlier mucusi that's why it's so important for all of us to and I say this because I I see here in the US Nooi many um schools of thoughts uh villainizing or even demonizing the ego and and and right here you're telling everyone including myself that uh no if you if you remove the ego then you are unable to to have a structured uh life it would be quite an imbalanced including with issues of schizophrenia right >> it's very very very important to point it now Marcia because uh Yi never said the ego was not important >> correct >> the ego because this is another another parenthesis because the ego is how this self can manifest here >> so we need this identity The point is that when we are fixed in this ego and we forget the other the other reality that's the point and what he said that so he we'll talk about two personalities you know the personality for Jung is a complex concept you know we have a big personality that he he name it self and we have a small personality that he name it ego And what gives us self-esteem, what give us maturity, psychological maturity is the capacity of this ego to get in relationship with the self. This is a process that he named individuation. >> Yeah. >> So I am here as a gatekeeper but I'm serving the king of the castle. >> What he wants from me. You know this is the purpose of our reincarnation here in in talking in a spiritual terms. >> Yeah. >> Why I'm here? What is the purpose of my life? That this ego is the responsible to realize it. But he's not just the responsible. The self is the great commander of all this process. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. I love it. I love what you you brought it all to all together. Right. So, um just trying to center my

s not just the responsible. The self is the great commander of all this process. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. I love it. I love what you you brought it all to all together. Right. So, um just trying to center my understanding of what you brought to all of us, right? We we talked about the self that immortal core I mentioned before that express the divine consciousness as we reincarnate and we we need that identity right that structure uh so that we can express the self through the ego but it's also how we learn evolve and the the the problem for all of us is we're this gatekeeper uh with the image of the castle uh serving the king not ourselves, right? We really are small in in in relation to to the whole um but um as um as a comparison um we need to understand that it's so easy to fall prey if you will Mahalooi to the roles right to the appearances even the um apparent success and I say apparent because We know that what we call successes today under a very material ephemeral uh not um that will disappear through time very easily. Right? Those successes or failures are just that they are um a an aspect of what we express ourself. But if we are not aware, right? If we if we're not um I don't know what's the best uh way to say this, Mahooi. If you're not educated or or aware of all the complexity of this ego self uh exes, right, as Joanna calls it, we may end up uh uh we may result with a very fragile self-esteem because everything else is not stable. It's not uh strong. So um if we could maybe talk a little bit about uh that uh and you started talking about it already but if you can talk about that spiritual identity and self but also how does it help as a foundational aspect of what we are in terms of we are a reflection of the ego for our self-esteem but how does the self and that spirit spiritual identity beyond the personality, the identity of the personality. Um, how they relate to that foundation of spiritual self-esteem. Does this make sense? My my question. >> Yes, makes sense. It's very complex.

beyond the personality, the identity of the personality. Um, how they relate to that foundation of spiritual self-esteem. Does this make sense? My my question. >> Yes, makes sense. It's very complex. And but you're bringing something because I think this is one of the >> wound. >> Yeah. The wounds. Yeah. The wounds that we have nowadays, we lost >> we lost this perspective. This is that we are spiritual uh >> beings you know and we are just focused in this uh perspective of the ego the materialist aspect of our life >> and uh because the ego see reality in um in a perspective now that uh it's very limited in certain aspects. >> Yeah. So >> as it should right it is limited like the baby or the it is it is what it is. Yeah. >> And for example our body is one of the parts that um compose our identity our >> and the our body limited us give us limitation. So why the limitation is important to Marcia because gives this is the reality you must face you must live >> with this body with this family with this context >> okay so you have to accept it and live it in the best way you can okay but if you think that or if we we identified ourselves just with this reality I am this body I believe that I am just this body. I am just Marlo. I'm just this reality. I will lose the the large perspective and I will be too focused on all the values that this reality brings to me. For example, now what is to be successful in our world in the materialistic world is to have a big house to have money to have fame to have okay >> so if I but I don't know if these are the agenda of my soul my spirit >> ah beautiful >> but this is the agenda of this reality that I'm living here >> so I I may get confused with Yes. >> Yeah. >> And if I am not uh accomplished with this reality, if I'm not succeed, if I do not have money, if I do not have fame, I feel that I do not have value. >> Yeah, >> that's the point. If I have the self perspective, no, wait a minute. I'm living this reality, but I feel that I have a sense of purpose.

do not have fame, I feel that I do not have value. >> Yeah, >> that's the point. If I have the self perspective, no, wait a minute. I'm living this reality, but I feel that I have a sense of purpose. you know and this way that someone is doing is not my way necessarily my way. So that's the point of because self-esteem when you're talking about self-esteem is like to feel good with ourselves you know but ego can feel good with himself you know >> that's a good point yeah yeah >> this perspective >> but if I am connected with is the purpose the sacred sense of my life so my values will change. >> External, right? Um external versus internal values, do you think? >> Yes, I we could say that, >> right? >> Yeah. If if and then this is sorry to to to speak over you Mahusi but if if we're talking about uh um my self-esteem I feel good because I have a sense of purpose a sense of clarity a sense of even uh the desire to to to grow to learn to serve right to create a um a sense of integrity um and congruence to my larger purpose and I'm talking larger more of a transcendental purpose right which is beyond this body then it's all from within to going out expressing through my actions etc. But with the ego um my self-esteem being only based on the external then that external must meet the and it's it's really uh not only ephemeral but it's very fickle if you will because today the let's talk about the body right >> uh today you have to be a certain height a certain nose type a certain hair color, a certain uh height and weight etc. in the west, right? But if we move to maybe 300 years ago or not even 300 50 years ago, it's a very different uh expectation of what is that beauty and if you keep going back into history those external and I'm putting just one dimension body but we can move on to expectations of education if you're a man versus a woman right or expectations of a sense of power you have land or you have this etc etc. So it's very uh I feel good from an ego perspective if I

n to expectations of education if you're a man versus a woman right or expectations of a sense of power you have land or you have this etc etc. So it's very uh I feel good from an ego perspective if I meet that external expectation external demand but those external demands change daily and because of how we live our lives today it changes very fast >> and it's a dizzying speed of change right whereas the self is pretty stable The sense of purpose is sense of purpose is sense of purpose. What do you think my Lucy? >> No, it's a very good example because um if you think that your body and we are living now in a moment that we deny that we are getting old. >> Yeah. >> We do not. We want to keep young. We want to keep ourselves young and we do. We pay a lot to do this >> and because we are really and this gives has a very influence in our self-esteem because if I am not according to these external patterns >> I do not have value >> that's the point and when when we are talking about the spiritual self-esteem we are talking about purpose meaning you know and because We understand that this body this experience we are living here are just temp temporaril how do we say that >> transitorious >> yeah it it's it's temporary or ephemeral I I I because it's very it it can go away any minute right >> like these patterns that you're talking about >> yes >> something that had value 50 years ago nowadays no >> so what remains what is The most important thing that remains in our life, >> yeah, >> is the sense of purpose. >> Yeah. I uh Mahusi, just real quick, I know we're approaching the end of our time together, but uh uh my husband and I, don't joke, but it's just what came to my mind. My husband and I started watching a silly silly uh procedural type of uh uh series of an interpretation of Agata Christies. >> It's a French series, right? Agata Christie's uh books in moved into the 70s, 1970s. Mhm. >> And it's so funny because it's all about the very caricature of our behaviors and

on of Agata Christies. >> It's a French series, right? Agata Christie's uh books in moved into the 70s, 1970s. Mhm. >> And it's so funny because it's all about the very caricature of our behaviors and I remember I can see myself in certain clothing or attitude and and oh my gosh everything in between right while part of that society and of course this is France but part of the society was very li in in the process of liberating of certain chains from a values perspect. ffect them in sense of morality. On the other, it is sexist, it is racist, it is agist, it's just everything that today we're so much more aware. So it's very interesting when we when we talk about the the sense of self-esteem if it's only related to the material ego-driven self-esteem it is bound to be disappointed because it's an illusion of what we are right of satisfaction of what we are >> yeah go ahead >> no just to just to complete your your thoughts that in these bring is anxiety. >> Yes. >> Okay. Because >> that's not the not so good uh result of that, right? >> And the real self, the self-esteem that comes from the self, from the spirit brings us a kind of internal coherence. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> A sense of tranquility, you know. I do not have this this body that everybody says that is the most the must, you know. But I feel good with myself, >> you know. I feel good with myself. I'm doing what I think I should do. I do not um I do not recognize me just as this body. I am much more than this >> and this give us the strength to deal with this >> difficult that life always brings to us. >> Yeah. And I think especially being uh an for me right an older woman uh what when you talk about the body right accepting who you are versus uh not uh we confront ourselves looking from just from an ego-driven material self-esteem and uh confronting the changing and quite cool expectations in the material world days as we're a woman >> um can we come up with this um sense of psychological distortions right >> that uh we we we we destroy we are the

he changing and quite cool expectations in the material world days as we're a woman >> um can we come up with this um sense of psychological distortions right >> that uh we we we we destroy we are the ones and only us that have the power to be so critical that inner critic to all of us and uh uh we do that through and you know social media is terrible because it is the everpresent mirror of what we're not. Right? So when we we find ourselves victims, if you will, of uh comparisons or a sense of perfectionism that is not really uh perfection, like you said, a body, but it is based on today what you should look like. Of course it's completely unrealistic but then um shame and fear really become agents to destroy our tranquility and I would call that our self-esteem right >> yeah this process now this ego to get in contact with the self and the true values and the our essence this is what Joanna the anggeles calls self-discovery Uhhuh. >> This is beautiful. It's a process of a whole life. >> Yeah. >> And give us this calm, this tranquility because then in the end we start to feel that we really are particles of this absolute and we belong to something much much bigger than >> Yeah. >> this belongings here that the ego believes. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and just real quickly because I I love that you that you brought up Leoni, right? But also um the if you will the way for all of us, it doesn't matter if you've never picked up a book by Joanna D'Angelus, right? Or this is the first time you're watching this conversation about uh uh psychology and spirituality. doesn't matter how deep or or not at all that you have Joanna offers this tool of self-discovery which is to to to look at us and we can even say that if um perhaps right if we are um our ego is in survival mode right and um and fear keeps telling from an ego perspective, we are not safe. We're in survival mode, right? We are not safe. We're not we don't meet what we the impositions of society. Um and comparison tells us we're not enough,

lling from an ego perspective, we are not safe. We're in survival mode, right? We are not safe. We're not we don't meet what we the impositions of society. Um and comparison tells us we're not enough, right? There's always somebody more beautiful, more intelligent, more powerful, whatever uh out there. Um and uh it pushes us to be perfections. But no, we're we're not perfect by any means. So perfectionism will lead us to not feeling worthy um and and and shame and anxiety. Oh my goodness, there's so much out there. But then Joanna and spiritism as well and uh contributions of Kustav Jung we are facing with something quite beautiful which is um there is something called our past experience right we're talking about past life and that potentially beyond the shifting demands of our society today. Beyond that, which is already complex, there can be a past life guilt, don't you think? Um, Mahusi, and that guilt influences also our self-image. So, yes, you may have whatever face blah blah, we are uh more than 8 billion unique uh snowflakes, right? Each one of us with a different form, a different expression. Why do we want to be exactly like somebody else? We're not, we will not be. But beyond that, there is that sense of what we wanted to be, but now we face uh from that guilt that we're facing our self-image. So it is a lot. So I think um I would like um Marlus I know we're time or about just two minutes but I would love for us to maybe do close our discussion today with a self um reflection on how to enter this journey of self-discovery self-awareness without judgment right um which I believe through Joanna. Uh we are then invited to welcome all of our you know shadows, our inner critics, our fears, our flaws, our wounds, right? our inner critic as well and look at them without accepting that the condemnation but understanding them and stop fighting with ourselves but uh welcome with open arms so that we can start healing all of that any any thoughts before we close our

hout accepting that the condemnation but understanding them and stop fighting with ourselves but uh welcome with open arms so that we can start healing all of that any any thoughts before we close our call today >> uh one thing that comes to me is that uh we should start question ourselves. >> Yes. >> You know, question the external patterns, the the external demands and take a a lovely look inside us, you know, that we have this divine affiliation and every every experience we have here has a purpose. Even this fear, this shame, this guilty all has a purpose. And we should start asking ourselves what's the purpose of this? What's the meaning of this for my develop? If I'm here, if if God is our father and he wants the best for us, what's the meaning of this experience in my life? >> Yeah, that's it's quite beautiful. Simple, simply said, not so simple to execute, right? But it is quite beautiful for for all of us to to welcome ourselves, right? Question ourselves, but love ourselves. Um, Mahuci, um, we are at the end. I'd love to continue conversation u at a later episode. Love to to do that. This is quite intriguing to myself but uh I'd say this discussion on ego self self-esteem and all in between right is really um a reminder of how through discussions through studies through uh understanding more about the complexities of who we are our psyche we can start to also So transform how we see ourselves, right? And when we change that, we can also transform how and how fast perhaps we heal our wounds and also how we live more peacefully in a more accepting manner. So for all of us, I just want to say all of us, let's remember our or your each one of us has a bit different one, but our inner values um let us all embrace our imperfections and let us all walk gently with ourselves. >> So thank you. Thank you, Mahuci. Thank you everyone who joined us today. If this was the first time that you're listening to this program, um this is a weekly, as I mentioned before, weekly talk and all the work

u. Thank you, Mahuci. Thank you everyone who joined us today. If this was the first time that you're listening to this program, um this is a weekly, as I mentioned before, weekly talk and all the work that we're doing are based on the works by Joanna Dangelus. So I hope this have helped um uh you and me has helped me better understand uh all those concepts and juxtaposing maybe your psychological understanding or your spiritual understanding to concepts that are so so important for all of us. I also want to thank our sponsors Mandino, the United States Spirits Federation, the International Spiritist Council, and Ammy Brazil. Ammy Brazil, if you don't know, is the Brazilian arm of the spir medical spiritist association. To all of you, thank you so very much for being with us today, and I hope to have you come back next week. Thanks everyone.